Unknown orange/red glow over Pacific Ocean

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Jungian

I don't see how you think that I believe that it's "IMPOSSIBRU" for the co-pilot to hoax this and that the pilot would have to be on to it? I never said that. It's CERTAINLY possible. We've had our share of hoaxes here on ATS. It isn't the first time and certainly isn't going to be the last time.

Here's a different picture and view with aurora, from Van Heijst's cabin at another time and more rearward, a bit more clarity for the layout. Like I said before, I see no good reason for faking.


Link to the better image here;
www.airplane-pictures.net...

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: weirdguy

Got a question for you and Jungian.

If he hoaxed this, then what did he exactly hoax? UFO? Nope he never mentioned that. Underwater creatures? Nope he didn't say that.

He did say that it was possible that it was a fleet of fishing boats or maybe underwater volcano.

So tell me... what EXACTLY was he trying to hoax (if he even hoaxed this)?

I'm not sure if it's a hoax or not, I was just trying to add the possibility into the discussion because I think it's important to keep in mind.

If it was a natural disaster happening such as a volcano there would be smoke and ash, flight routes would be diverted and something that big would have left a seismic footprint that would have been detected. Electrical sprites occur at high altitudes not at sea level. It's not a fishing fleet nor a naval one. Methane/natural gas field burning off, again the sheer size of it would be hard to ignore and we would be seeing reports by now, and I'm not sure if it would show so brightly through cloud layer like that. It's not plankton or giant squid mating orgy, they wouldn't show through cloud cover too.

If it's not a hoax or anything obvious then we end up with more exotic theories as to what's going on here. Aliens? Advanced weapon test? Who knows, maybe this is the last thing MH370 saw before they blipped off the radar only to reappear 100 years from now.

There seams to be plenty of other international flights in the area
www.flightradar24.com...

a reply to: weirdguy

LOL

Well thanks for your contribution to this thread.

But yeah there is always a possibility of an hoax, no matter if that person is trustworthy.

Pictures are too easy to photoshop these days as you have demonstrated.

[edit] - In that site you linked, the area is little to the south of those flight paths. But anyway it would be interesting to see if they report the same thing or even take pictures too. Thanks for sharing.

[edit again lol] -

If it was a natural disaster happening such as a volcano there would be smoke and ash, flight routes would be diverted and something that big would have left a seismic footprint that would have been detected.

Yes the co-pilot have said EXACTLY what you said.

The point is... he took pictures (assuming that he didn't hoax this) and OFFERED some of his explanations and is asking people for ideas as to what it was.

It is like as if I took a picture of St. Elmo's Fire and show to people and offer maybe some explanations of what it could be and asking people to help me figure out what it could have been.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: weirdguy

Got a question for you and Jungian.

If he hoaxed this, then what did he exactly hoax? UFO? Nope he never mentioned that. Underwater creatures? Nope he didn't say that.

He did say that it was possible that it was a fleet of fishing boats or maybe underwater volcano.

So tell me... what EXACTLY was he trying to hoax (if he even hoaxed this)?

EXACTLY.

The fact the guy said the lights resembled fishing fleets or volcanic activity speaks VOLUMES that he is a skeptic himself.

I know quite a few pilots myslef, and they are all mechanically inclined individuals with a good scientific/logical mind.

He didn't go onto BeforeItNews and post a blurry picture of a light in the sky and scream "ZOMG, 1000% PROOF, THE ALIENS ARE HERE!!!!!"


The fact it hasn't hit any real media outlets yet it making me really think it was some military test/salvage operation.

I have waited a long time before joining this forum, but since the interest in my sighting and report from the lights/glow over the Pacific Ocean the 24th of August is of unexpected scale and the (good) questions keep on coming, I decided to become a member too so i can hopefully answer any emerging questions personally.

First of all I want to say that me and my captain (Im the copilot / first officer, on contrary to some media articles) are very happy to see that our report has been taken serious and genuine interest has risen for our sighting.

First I'll answer a few questions that have been asked, followed later today by a list of possible causes.

- 'Could you ask if global lightning databases were checked, if possible.'
I have not checked any database yet myself, but it is a very good idea. I would like to know if the flash we saw was just a lightning strike and if it was recorded. Maybe the whole flash had nothing to do at all with the red/orange glow we saw later, I just dont know. Im seriously short on time since Im just working in the meanwhile, but if anybody would know where to find information like this I would like to hear more about it.

- 'Why are pilots automatically being taken serious to begin with'
Another legitimate question and I would be very skeptical too if I would read such a story. To begin with we are selected on, and trained to have a very analytical mind resulting in a very 'technical' mindset. Of course there are exceptions, but the large majority of all pilots will handle all events in a technical and non-emotional way. Even though I love flying and enjoy the beauty of flight and the world 'up there' every day and night, I consider myself a capable pilot and very much down to earth, with a scientific upbringing and background. I don't think I saw aliens, UFO's, Ewoks planning in invasion, or anything like this at all.
Im sure there is a very logical explanation for what we saw.
Next to that, the consequences for 'hoaxing' or making a large scale practical joke might have very serious and long lasting consequences for the pilots involved (me!). An official investigation is launched, possibly airways closed with huge financial consequences for airlines and countries, satellites are probably changed course to take a look etc... money, time and resources are being spend on a possibly very dangerous situation for aviation. Making a joke out of this just for the heck of a photo would mean the end of my career and could possibly have even worse consequences for me personally. And that is the very last thing I want to happen.

All the photos are real, not photoshopped, not hoaxed, not copy-pasted etc etc.. they just came from my camera and we were just as puzzled (and also feeling very uncomfortable) when we passed this field of lights. Of course, all photos these days can be photoshopped, but Im not that good with photoshop and I would not see any reason to do such a thing. I would put my name and career at risk, apart from the fact that I would not even be interested in such a poor prank.
Photography has been a hobby for me since I started flying and capturing the beauty of flight is my main subject, as some of you already found out. It took me many years to handle the very low-light conditions during night-flights, and after investing a lot of money in my equipment, having lots of patience, a bit of cursing and a tiny bit of luck I have reached the point where I these days can capture the cockpit scenes without too much trouble.

Our main concern that night over the Pacific was a possible ash-encounter, resulting in a likely loss of all engines, followed by a ditch in the Ocean. For the remainder of the flight we have discussed for many hours what we could have seen, unable to make any sense of it. Anchorage Air Traffic Control wanted to see the photos too so after I sent them to them, I decided to put them online at my own facebook page and pbase gallery, hoping to find some answers on what we actually saw. Still sure that a quick answer would be found.
I could just not have imagined the intense media hype around it and the fact that it went viral within 24 hours after our sighting. On one hand a good thing, because we really want to know what we saw. On the other hand it is kind of scary to see what kind of reactions I get. Hundreds over very interesting emails from people with background information, (retired) airline pilots that claim to have seen more or less the same sort of things in the last decades and are happy that finally somebody was able to take pictures of it, scientists in all fields that are trying to find an explanation and many many more.
I have noticed that since the start of this thread, the tone turned from skeptical to a more serious one and I can only say Im very grateful for that. It means that the interest in what we have seen is serious and I can only hope that somebody, or a group of people together, can find what was there below us.

Now I'll start to compose a list of possible causes and their pro's and con's so far, using input from all the information I have been able to gather and receive so far.

Just to give you an estimate of the size of the patch and the individual lights, I have taken a photo two nights ago when we were flying Anchorage-Columbus while passing over the city of Winnipeg. We flew at 35.000ft, and with the city of Winnipeg at aprx 700ft above sealevel, this resulted in a nearly identical distance from the lights. You can see how close the size of the lights comes to the size of the city of Winnipeg. The city is about 22km (13,7miles / 11,9Nm) wide in any direction.
www.pbase.com...

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst
I have waited a long time before joining this forum, but since the interest in my sighting and report from the lights/glow over the Pacific Ocean the 24th of August is of unexpected scale and the (good) questions keep on coming, I decided to become a member too so i can hopefully answer any emerging questions personally.

First of all I want to say that me and my captain (Im the copilot / first officer, on contrary to some media articles) are very happy to see that our report has been taken serious and genuine interest has risen for our sighting.

First I'll answer a few questions that have been asked, followed later today by a list of possible causes.

- 'Could you ask if global lightning databases were checked, if possible.'
I have not checked any database yet myself, but it is a very good idea. I would like to know if the flash we saw was just a lightning strike and if it was recorded. Maybe the whole flash had nothing to do at all with the red/orange glow we saw later, I just dont know. Im seriously short on time since Im just working in the meanwhile, but if anybody would know where to find information like this I would like to hear more about it.

- 'Why are pilots automatically being taken serious to begin with'
Another legitimate question and I would be very skeptical too if I would read such a story. To begin with we are selected on, and trained to have a very analytical mind resulting in a very 'technical' mindset. Of course there are exceptions, but the large majority of all pilots will handle all events in a technical and non-emotional way. Even though I love flying and enjoy the beauty of flight and the world 'up there' every day and night, I consider myself a capable pilot and very much down to earth, with a scientific upbringing and background. I don't think I saw aliens, UFO's, Ewoks planning in invasion, or anything like this at all.
Im sure there is a very logical explanation for what we saw.
Next to that, the consequences for 'hoaxing' or making a large scale practical joke might have very serious and long lasting consequences for the pilots involved (me!). An official investigation is launched, possibly airways closed with huge financial consequences for airlines and countries, satellites are probably changed course to take a look etc... money, time and resources are being spend on a possibly very dangerous situation for aviation. Making a joke out of this just for the heck of a photo would mean the end of my career and could possibly have even worse consequences for me personally. And that is the very last thing I want to happen.

All the photos are real, not photoshopped, not hoaxed, not copy-pasted etc etc.. they just came from my camera and we were just as puzzled (and also feeling very uncomfortable) when we passed this field of lights. Of course, all photos these days can be photoshopped, but Im not that good with photoshop and I would not see any reason to do such a thing. I would put my name and career at risk, apart from the fact that I would not even be interested in such a poor prank.
Photography has been a hobby for me since I started flying and capturing the beauty of flight is my main subject, as some of you already found out. It took me many years to handle the very low-light conditions during night-flights, and after investing a lot of money in my equipment, having lots of patience, a bit of cursing and a tiny bit of luck I have reached the point where I these days can capture the cockpit scenes without too much trouble.

Our main concern that night over the Pacific was a possible ash-encounter, resulting in a likely loss of all engines, followed by a ditch in the Ocean. For the remainder of the flight we have discussed for many hours what we could have seen, unable to make any sense of it. Anchorage Air Traffic Control wanted to see the photos too so after I sent them to them, I decided to put them online at my own facebook page and pbase gallery, hoping to find some answers on what we actually saw. Still sure that a quick answer would be found.
I could just not have imagined the intense media hype around it and the fact that it went viral within 24 hours after our sighting. On one hand a good thing, because we really want to know what we saw. On the other hand it is kind of scary to see what kind of reactions I get. Hundreds over very interesting emails from people with background information, (retired) airline pilots that claim to have seen more or less the same sort of things in the last decades and are happy that finally somebody was able to take pictures of it, scientists in all fields that are trying to find an explanation and many many more.
I have noticed that since the start of this thread, the tone turned from skeptical to a more serious one and I can only say Im very grateful for that. It means that the interest in what we have seen is serious and I can only hope that somebody, or a group of people together, can find what was there below us.

Now I'll start to compose a list of possible causes and their pro's and con's so far, using input from all the information I have been able to gather and receive so far.

Just to give you an estimate of the size of the patch and the individual lights, I have taken a photo two nights ago when we were flying Anchorage-Columbus while passing over the city of Winnipeg. We flew at 35.000ft, and with the city of Winnipeg at aprx 700ft above sealevel, this resulted in a nearly identical distance from the lights. You can see how close the size of the lights comes to the size of the city of Winnipeg. The city is about 22km (13,7miles / 11,9Nm) wide in any direction.
www.pbase.com...

WOW, welcome to ATS and thank you for joining and taking the time to make such a detailed post here!

Also that's an awesome comparison for the size reference!

Did you happen to catch my post a few pages back suggesting it might be a large military operation at sea? The red/orange lighting commonly used on Naval vessels at least seems to make sense.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thank you for joining and replying.

I suggested sprite, elfe or other type of lightning phenomena such as halo's or a TLE as a possibility, there are some sort of sprites that were observed 6 feet from the ground that lingered an hour. If it were something of this nature, it could be that it is an unusual form or some unusual conditions that enabled such.

There is live lightning network here though for longer term database, it looks like perhaps a paying servicewww.uspln.com....

However, I am sure air networks will have access to current and previous data.

www-e.openu.ac.il...
people.ee.duke.edu...

[1] The Imager for Sprites and Upper Atmospheric
Lightning (ISUAL) on the FORMOSAT-2 spacecraft
observes Transient Luminous Events (TLE) like sprites,
elves, and halos from space. We analyzed halos that were
observed in Central America close enough to ELF/VLF
receivers that allowed for the determination of the polarity of
the parent lightning. All halos were created by negative cloud
to ground lightning (
CG) strokes that occurred almost
exclusively over the open water.

Only three out of the
31 events happened over land. We conclude that the Central
American region seems to be special with respect to the large
proportion of
CG created halos. Such a behavior is very
different from the occurrence of sprites that are mostly
created by positive cloud to ground lightning. Citation: Frey,
H. U., et al. (2007), Halos generated by negative cloud-to-ground
lightning, Geophys. Res. Lett., 34, L18801, doi:10.1029/
2007GL030908.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Well I knew all along that it wasn't a hoax, I was just testing everyone to weed out any non believers.

Did any of the lights flicker, move or change shape? Was the cloud cover as thick as it looks in the photos?

The light source must have been very strong, more than ships lights but perhaps strong as a search light to show through the clouds like that.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Can you give exposure details for the Winnipeg shot

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst
I have waited a long time before joining this forum, but since the interest in my sighting and report from the lights/glow over the Pacific Ocean the 24th of August is of unexpected scale and the (good) questions keep on coming, I decided to become a member too so i can hopefully answer any emerging questions personally.

Hi and welcome Van.
Not much of a question, more a statement, but it does seem that you are more concerned with 'the flash' and the 'glow' more so than the ground effects. The deep red glow seems to be more below the aircraft rather than the plane flying through a cloud which is diffusing the ground light to the darker red, or even a very fine dusty red cloud which could be what is being observed.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

WOW, welcome to ATS and thank you for joining and taking the time to make such a detailed post here!

Also that's an awesome comparison for the size reference!

Did you happen to catch my post a few pages back suggesting it might be a large military operation at sea? The red/orange lighting commonly used on Naval vessels at least seems to make sense.

Thanks, I hope to clarify any questions that might be here concerning my own observation and background information.
I read your comment indeed and you are not the first one to mention this... more information about the current theories that I take serious or are taken serious by others involved will follow later today when I have the time.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thank you for joining and replying.

I suggested sprite, elfe or other type of lightning phenomena such as halo's or a TLE as a possibility, there are some sort of sprites that were observed 6 feet from the ground that lingered an hour. If it were something of this nature, it could be that it is an unusual form or some unusual conditions that enabled such.

There is live lightning network here though for longer term database, it looks like perhaps a paying servicewww.uspln.com....

However, I am sure air networks will have access to current and previous data.

Thanks for the link! I will try to find out if there is anything of that recorded as soon as I have the time. Any help from others is appreciated since Im overwhelmed by emails that I try to answer in between the regular flights and (much lacking) sleep. Indeed sprites/elves and maybe even more exotic electro/magnetic phenomenon are suggested and researched at the moment.

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Well I knew all along that it wasn't a hoax, I was just testing everyone to weed out any non believers.

Did any of the lights flicker, move or change shape? Was the cloud cover as thick as it looks in the photos?

The light source must have been very strong, more than ships lights but perhaps strong as a search light to show through the clouds like that.

Haha a healthy dose of skepticism is very welcome. I appreciate any honest questions regarding the photographs, the sighting and the background.
Indeed, the lights were very strong, but also very large in diameter. That is what concerned us most. It must have been very large, whatever it was. And the red color did not make sense in combination with other large lights that are normally seen at night over any ocean (large ships, moon reflections etc). It was very hard to judge, but it looked to us that there was a relatively thin layer of clouds/fog over the origin of the lights, and higher up in the atmosphere other layers of clouds that were illuminated from below.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Can you give exposure details for the Winnipeg shot

The Winnipeg shot was taken with different settings, just for size-comparison. There was much more light (both from the ground and from the Aurora Borealis) so the exact same settings as on the 24th would have resulted in an over exposed photo.
10.5mm, 10 seconds exposure, f/2.8, ISO1250

originally posted by: smurfy
Hi and welcome Van.
Not much of a question, more a statement, but it does seem that you are more concerned with 'the flash' and the 'glow' more so than the ground effects. The deep red glow seems to be more below the aircraft rather than the plane flying through a cloud which is diffusing the ground light to the darker red, or even a very fine dusty red cloud which could be what is being observed.

Thanks and glad to be able to clarify a bit more here.
Actually Im much more concerned by the origin of the lights that shine through the clouds then anything else. I think the words I used and the context I placed some titles might have been a bit misleading. When I mention 'the glow over the pacific' I actually meant the lights and not really the illuminated clouds above.
The glow indeed comes from the lights down below, and the flash might possibly have nothing to do at all with the whole event. I just mentioned them to give a clearer picture on what we observed.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Hi there,

welcome to ATS and a big thanks for becoming a member and answering any questions,

my question is have you seen any other odd things on that flight path or that area around the peninsular before ? bearing in mind its use by a certain country.

and will you be flying that path again anytime soon ?

Thanks

Snoopyuk

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Jungian

I don't see how you think that I believe that it's "IMPOSSIBRU" for the co-pilot to hoax this and that the pilot would have to be on to it? I never said that. It's CERTAINLY possible. We've had our share of hoaxes here on ATS. It isn't the first time and certainly isn't going to be the last time.

I am saying that I believe that it is unlikely but this does warrant further investigation. If it turns out to be an hoax, then we'll move on. As simple as that.

I do not know why you are trying to preach to us that it is possible for co-pilot to have hoaxed this? WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. weirdguy was trying to demonstrate how it can be done with photoshop. I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT YOU CAN PHOTOSHOP ANYTHING. Heck any photos can be photoshopped these days.

We should not give up investigating mysterious phenomenon even if they turn out to be hoaxes.

Also, you and weirdguy have not debunked this yet.

And FYI??? I am a skeptic myself too. Many posters in this thread are skeptics too.

Also, I have debunked several threads and pictures on ATS myself.

I am personally not interested in debunking this, but that doesnt make able not to remain skeptic to it.
What I am interested in however is an official scientific followup to the event. Some educated scientists gotta be interested!
edit* I found a post on reddit about this, I'll see if anyone made it on the comments board there with a somewhat scientific explanation.

originally posted by: snoopyuk
a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Hi there,

welcome to ATS and a big thanks for becoming a member and answering any questions,

my question is have you seen any other odd things on that flight path or that area around the peninsular before ? bearing in mind its use by a certain country.

and will you be flying that path again anytime soon ?

Thanks

Snoopyuk

I fly that route almost on a monthly basis since 1,5 years. Mostly during daylight, sometimes during night. There are about 5 parallel airways over that part of the ocean, each pretty far apart from each other. Sometimes we even fly besides these airways over the Russian mainland or further out over the Ocean. I have flown this particular airway (A590) I think 3-4 times and never seen anything strange. No lights, nothing.

Im scheduled for a Hongkong-Anchorage flight again in about 2 weeks from now, but I have no clue about the particular route we will fly that day. If it happens to be the same one I'll sure keep my eyes open!

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thank you for the swift reply .

hopefully you will get to fly over again on the same path and at night. :-)

snoopyuk

Just a quick one ,
Have you seen a UFO and do u think this is UFO related ?

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

So what do you think it was? Go on give it your best guess, there must be an opinion that you've concluded even partially. Would you call it a ufo or do you feel it was something more natural? Have you seen a ufo before while flying?


wow you even beat me to the beer Denoli.

originally posted by: weirdguy
a reply to: jpcvanheijst

So what do you think it was? Go on give it your best guess, there must be an opinion that you've concluded even partially. Would you call it a ufo or do you feel it was something more natural? Have you seen a ufo before while flying?


wow you even beat me to the beer Denoli.

Iol but I can't see why it seems a taboo subject to pilots tho ,
But great he is here and bet he's holding a lot back regarding the subject as he says a lot of pilots have been in touch with him .
What's that I smell a book been made by him ,
What a read that would be !

I have never seen a UFO as in a flying saucer or the Millennium Falcon with Chewie at the controls or so, but a few times some strange lights in the nightly sky that I could not identify. Though I guess they are easily identified having a military origin or a natural phenomenon.
But nothing ever so clear and close as the event this whole thread started with.

I really have no clue what we saw, but the most 'realistic' one would be a Russian naval fleet considering the location and the size.. I guess. I just dont know at all.

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst
I have never seen a UFO as in a flying saucer or the Millennium Falcon with Chewie at the controls or so, but a few times some strange lights in the nightly sky that I could not identify. Though I guess they are easily identified having a military source or a natural phenomenon.
But nothing ever so clear and close as the event this whole thread started with.

I really have no clue what we saw, but the most 'realistic' one would be a Russian naval fleet considering the location and the size.. I guess. I just dont know at all.

There used to be public-access weather satellite photos from a polar mid-orbit system called DMSP, they have helped identify several interesting space station crew sightings of lights as fishing fleets. Since you carefully described your familiarity with THAT activity, and the differences, we're left with querying that data base to get contemporary images of the area from space.

Also, let me see when the ISS was passing near the area. It has external cameras, but it's a long shot in terms of timing.