Unknown orange/red glow over Pacific Ocean

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst
I have never seen a UFO as in a flying saucer or the Millennium Falcon with Chewie at the controls or so, but a few times some strange lights in the nightly sky that I could not identify. Though I guess they are easily identified having a military source or a natural phenomenon.
But nothing ever so clear and close as the event this whole thread started with.

I really have no clue what we saw, but the most 'realistic' one would be a Russian naval fleet considering the location and the size.. I guess. I just dont know at all.

Thanks for the reply and thanks for joining the thread,hope you get to the bottom of it and please start a thread if you ever get some sort of answer or find anymore interesting anomalies .

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Wow - you have made quite the entrance to ATS! Welcome, I hope you stick around.

I think most people do not realize how serious a report such as this is taken and how much trouble you could get into if it was found you tried to hoax it in any way. I'm glad you came on here to explain that so we can move on to trying to find out what it was you saw.

In my 20 years as a commercial airline pilot I have never seen anything like that but I would not discount the other pilots who have said they have seen something like that. Did any of them have any theories?. I have seen a "sprite" once that looked like the flash you described but have no idea if it could be related to what you saw later.

Anyways, like I said before, you know we see some amazing things up there and most (not all!!) have a perfectly rational explanation!

Fly safe!!

a reply to: captainmjp

Thanks a lot captainmjp!
You are not the first colleague to back me up via the internet (either pbase or email or forum) and it is good to hear that there are many colleagues open to some inexplicable things we don't get taught in flight school.

And indeed, I do believe in a totally rational explanation of what we've seen here. I just hope that if there is one, the officials will make it public and wont be afraid of making it public. It can be tempting to keep it quiet just to keep secret how detailed and well-informed they are I guess. Or perhaps really nobody knows...

More information to follow soon.

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst

I really have no clue what we saw, but the most 'realistic' one would be a Russian naval fleet considering the location and the size.. I guess. I just dont know at all.

I saw this gossip,

Authority: NAVAREA XIII 79/14 250916Z AUG 14.
Cancel: 04090000 Sep 14
So, what's happening here? According to internet chatter, the following surface combatants recently transited (or soon might) from the Pacific Fleet's main naval base in Vladivostok to ports on the Kamchatka Peninsula (arriving on August 25):
Slava-class cruiser "Varyag"
Sovremennyy-class destroyer "Bystryy" (may have engine problems)
Udaloy I-class destroyers "Admiral Panteleyev", "Admiral Vinogradov", and "Marshal Shaposhnikov" (the latter will join up in September)
Grisha III-class light frigate "Kholmsk"
Grisha V-class light frigate "Sovetskaya Gavan"

Just to add, the MV, 'Transshelf' heavy marine lift, (Cheekily enough) is transporting two Russian nuclear submarines, The nuclear submarines “Bratsk” and “Samara”for upgrades. I'm sure there would be escorts of some kind there...that's hilarious considering the mainstream "Almost at war with Russia" news, when we have a Western Euro vessel taking two nuclear subs back to a Russian port for, 'Upgrades' Business as usual then!

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst

I really have no clue what we saw, but the most 'realistic' one would be a Russian naval fleet considering the location and the size.. I guess. I just dont know at all.

I saw this gossip,

Authority: NAVAREA XIII 79/14 250916Z AUG 14.
Cancel: 04090000 Sep 14
So, what's happening here? According to internet chatter, the following surface combatants recently transited (or soon might) from the Pacific Fleet's main naval base in Vladivostok to ports on the Kamchatka Peninsula (arriving on August 25):
Slava-class cruiser "Varyag"
Sovremennyy-class destroyer "Bystryy" (may have engine problems)
Udaloy I-class destroyers "Admiral Panteleyev", "Admiral Vinogradov", and "Marshal Shaposhnikov" (the latter will join up in September)
Grisha III-class light frigate "Kholmsk"
Grisha V-class light frigate "Sovetskaya Gavan"

Interesting! I found this about Varyag's activities in the Indian Ocean last month.
en.ria.ru...

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst

I really have no clue what we saw, but the most 'realistic' one would be a Russian naval fleet considering the location and the size.. I guess. I just dont know at all.

I saw this gossip,

Authority: NAVAREA XIII 79/14 250916Z AUG 14.
Cancel: 04090000 Sep 14
So, what's happening here? According to internet chatter, the following surface combatants recently transited (or soon might) from the Pacific Fleet's main naval base in Vladivostok to ports on the Kamchatka Peninsula (arriving on August 25):
Slava-class cruiser "Varyag"
Sovremennyy-class destroyer "Bystryy" (may have engine problems)
Udaloy I-class destroyers "Admiral Panteleyev", "Admiral Vinogradov", and "Marshal Shaposhnikov" (the latter will join up in September)
Grisha III-class light frigate "Kholmsk"
Grisha V-class light frigate "Sovetskaya Gavan"

Interesting! I found this about Varyag's activities in the Indian Ocean last month.
en.ria.ru...

It's all very interesting, I just added an edit to my last post, about the two Russian nuclear subs presently being carried home for upgrades.. by a heavy lift Euro vessel. Now I catch a side headline, (current) in your link, 'Rosneft agrees to purchase stake in Norwegian-British oil producer' I guess the Ukraine government know nothing about this, so WTF 's going on? Ukraine must know, and by the looks of it, they are being ditched despite what the news is saying. Meh! and people are dying there.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Hi thanks for that, I have done photography for over 30+ years that's part of the reason why I asked to get an idea of possible light level in the OP shot.

Ok here we go. I've made a list of the most common theories and put all the proof and doubts about those theories next to it, together with my (current) verdict. Please feel free to comment, add or advice me if I have made some wrong assumptions.

MOST COMMON THEORIES:
1. UFOs :-)

Proof for:
- The lights are as of yet “unidentified” and so without clear explanation we can’t totally rule out “alien” UFOs
- When all else fails, blame aliens.

Problems with this theory:
- These lights are inconsistent with more then 70 years of UFO reports according to FAA intelligence.
- UFO reports of last 60 years have many common characteristics and these lights do not share those characteristics, other than being “unexplained” and in the middle of nowhere.
- No evidence that these lights were associated with “flying” objects.

Verdict: Probably not a UFO or fleet of UFOs.


2. Underwater Volcano

Proof For:
- This would explain the deep red colors, and could also account for green/white since sometimes volcanos produce different colored flames.
- The position is near the “ring of fire” and close to a lot of volcanic activity
- Being so far out in the open ocean leaves few other explanations.
- Lots of seismic and tectonic activities in the preceding days, both around the Pacific Rim, but also worldwide
- The “flash of light” could be ash cloud lightning which is common with volcanic eruptions.

Problems with this theory:
- No associated seismic activity that can be found. The Center WX unit in the USA has no information on any volcanic/seismic activity
- Light produced by an underwater volcano would most likely be non-symmetrical, vary in shape, size, and brightness. These lights are very similar & uniform in characteristics.
- No ash cloud to explain the bright flash

Verdict: Still a good possibility, but the more research I do the less likely this is becoming. An underwater volcanic eruption “could” have eruptions in similar patterns and intensity, but unlikely. Cannot rule out the possibility of an underwater eruption.


3. Squid Fishing Boats:

Proof for:
- Lights are in a symmetrical pattern, and fairly uniform size/shape/luminosity characteristics to suggest artificial lighting
- Squid fishing lights are very bright - around 30,000 watts (equal to 500 car headlights). Being diffused by a thin cloud layer would be consistent with size and luminosity of the lights you’ve photographed.
- There is satellite evidence of large concentrated squid fishing operations offshore in other parts of the world. These images resemble what has been photographed, although *not red* which leads to....

Problems with the squid theory:
- I can only find green and white lighting on squid boats, and never red. The photos in question are predominately red. The satellite shots
(of other squid boat ops) are all greenish/white
- Two experienced pilots who witnessed firsthand are confident the lights were not fishing boats
- The closest large port is Petropavlovsk, 376 miles (605km) away from the lights. Hokkaido is 800 miles away. I’m not sure if commercial fishing vessels commonly go this far or not.
- Commercial squid fishing takes place over the continental plate or on the edge of it. These lights were observed very far away from the continental plate, with deep sea all around. Making squid-fishing highly unlikely.
- Red lights are not penetrating the blue seawater deeply because of its frequency. That is the reason green/white lights are always used. Red lights are totally unusable for attracting fish.
– Lightsources are much larger then normally observed with fishing ships, including squid-fishing ships.
- The initial flash of light would most likely be unrelated

Verdict: Very unlikely. A commercial squid fishing fleet would not use these color of the lights since this does not provide any good light for fishing squid. Nor would they fish at this position so far from the continental plate. Possibly another type of fleet, perhaps non commercial (military).


4. Military fleet conducting;
Possible massive Russian navy exercise/weapon-test/salvage operation

Proof for:
– Close to Petropavlovsk, one of the largest Russian navy bases and home to the Pacific Nuclear submarine fleet at the Rybachy base, just South of Petropavlovsk naval base.
– Large US-navy exercises at the same day and time South of Japan and publicly announced (and failed) US weapon test with hypersonic missile out of Alaska that same day (24th of August)
– Political tension between the West and Russia could cause the Russian navy to test new weapons and organize large fleet exercises.
– Military fleets often use red lights to illuminate their ships at night
– Seize and scale of sighting is consistent with massive military operation like a weapon test or salvage operation
– Flash of light could indicate a possible weapon/rocket test
– Salvage operation could be possible because of large fleet of under-maintained nuclear submarines operating from base close by. Large scale salvage operation would be expected if a sub, armed with an array of valuable nuclear missiles, would go missing close to port.
– Location would be logical for a weapon/rocket test. Not in any fishing area or near commercial shipping lanes, deep sea, far from civilized world, close to large navy base, likely radiation from Fukushima would shield possible nuclear radiation/waste from a nuclear weapon-test in the deep sea current coming from Japan. Theories about Fukushima radiation being used/abused for hiding radiation-effects for military tests are widely spread

Problems with Military fleet conducting:
- Unannounced, large Russian exercise or weapon tests outside of Russian territory/waters are not likely
– Lights were far too bright for night illumination of military vessels, they would even blind their own personnel. Some lights were white and green, inconsistent with uniform red color for military fleet
– Airways were not closed for civilian/commercial aviation (as normal for military exercises and weapon tests)
– No NOTAMS (Notice To AirMen) in preflight briefing of airspace about possible military activities in this area, so an unannounced/secret operation would be logical if it is a military operation... but;
– if it was a secret operation, strong lights are not logical. They attract a lot of attention at night from commercial aviation

Verdict; Possible, but strange
Could be a covert military operation outside of Russian waters, but lights are too bright for ship illumination at night and are not logical to have been carried if it was secret; one would expect dimly illuminated ships to make sure personnel keep their 'night vision'. On the other hand; airspace was not closed, nor a warning was issued, so a large military exercise or test can almost certain be ruled out. Could explain the flash of light earlier. Unlikely to hear anything about anymore this if it really was a military operation.

(to be continued in next post)

5. Earthquake lights
Earthquake lights are an often reported anomaly that occurs often before/during/after heavy earthquakes. Until a few years ago often reported as UFO's, since the 1960's scientifically accepted as a side-effect of earthquakes in various forms and colors.
I have received a very interesting document from a highly regarded scientist specialized in (electro-)magnetic discharges of the atmosphere into the earths curst and vice versa. More research is done as we speak, and its cutting edge science with probably little or no proof. But it could provide a valuable report and a possible explanation for mysterious lights

Proof for:
- Earthquake lights are often seen during tectonic and seismic activities. Massive seismic activities during the weeks, days and especially hours before. Both Iceland, San Francisco and Chile experienced heavy earthquakes.
- Massive earthquake in Papua New Guinea (further South in the Ring of Fire) at 11:15:50 UTC August 24th (same day and time) , a few minutes before seeing the red glowing lights, a few minutes after seeing the bright white flash. Even though far away, this could have caused a 'reversed spike' in the atmospheres magnetic charge and have caused a large discharge in the atmosphere's upper ionization layers. Never observed before, but theoretically possible. Like a South and North pole on a magnet, the earths atmosphere might have an up and downcharge of its energy in case of severe magnetic changes. Still highly hypothetical.
- Both West-Greenland and Alaskan official magnetometers (sensors sensing changes in the Earth magnetic field) have sensed massive disruptions in the earths magmatic field up to an hour to minutes before, and exactly during the sighting of the red lights over the Pacific.
- Large amount of solar activity and massive Aurora Borealis before and after our sighting, indicating big charges of the ionosphere of the earths upper atmosphere
- Records of mysterious (red) lights in the sky go back to around 1000 yrs before Christ, the best recorded event the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811 and 1812 and for the first time filmed in the 1960's in Japan. Since then often seen and recorded, though never scientific evidence has been provided.
- Could explain the flash of light since flashes of lights (even high up into the atmosphere) are often associated with earthquakes and earthquake lights.
- This area, South of Russia, was the location of the deepest earthquake known to Man back in 2012 and documented back in May 2014, which COULD have caused a potential weakening in the earth crust magnetic properties causing a downpeak in the energy flow.

Problems with Earthquake lights;
- Lights were shining continuously and probably for a long period of time (at least 30 minutes without changing luminescence, likely much longer).
- Earthquake lights are still very unknown but appear to shine only for a few minutes maximum. So many, extremely bright lights would indicate an extremely strong down peak of ionization, never observed before.

Verdict; could have great potential and seems likely. More research is being done.


6. Meteorite impact
A large meteorite impact might be the cause of the flash, later disintegrated and crashed into the ocean, leaving glowing and burning parts on the ocean

Proof for:
- Might explain a bright white flash
- Many meteorites falling down this period of the year. We saw at least 7 of them during our flight, some of them very large and bright.
- It has happened before that a large meteorite reaches the earth and causes damage on the ground

Problems with meteorite theory:
- A larger flash of light would be expected, and with a different direction (down/sideways and not vertical).
- Once the ocean has been hit, parts would sink to the bottom of the ocean, not stay afloat and have a strong afterglow.

Verdict: Unlikely


7. Methane burning on the surface of the ocean
Large fields of Methane gas are stored in the ocean floor and have been known to escape from the ocean floor during seismic activities. The gas would float up violently in large bubbles and often catches fire spontaneously when reaching the surface

Proof for:
- Large scale seismic activities took place all over the world at this time, including in the Pacific Rim.
- Methane release from the sea bed has been observed many times and is not uncommon
- Would explain the size, the position of the lights and the brightness of the lights
- Such an event has been seen and recorded by airline pilots flying between Tokyo and Alaska (April 9, 1984) during daylight, but was evident from the extremely large cloud that it produced, not by the lights they have seen.
- Gasses on the surface are known to ignite by themselves
- It could be other types of gasses too;
Red and orange indicate other burning elements then Methane, or it would be a burning process that is lacking oxygen. Lithium and Strontium produce red flames, Calcium burns orange and Sodium burn yellow. Elements like Barium and Molybdenum produce yellow/greenish flames while Thallium burns pure green. All these colors have been observed during our event.

Problems with Methane theory:
- No seismic activity around this area reported, which would be expected if such a large quantity of gas would escape the sea floor
- No large cloud observed. Reported clouds from methane gas coming from the ocean floor can reach up to 50.000ft, this is inconsistent with our observations of the clouds that night
- Pure methane burns with a blue flame. As stated before, other elements burn with different colors. This would be a first-ever recorded event of large pockets of non-methane gasses burning on the surface

Verdict; has to be investigated further but has great potential.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Well that was thorough!

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thanks for that, interesting.

My theory for the most possible is still the charged atmosphere phenomena, either from Earthquake lights or a TLE caused by atmospheric electric or magnetic conditions.

The research about the Earthquake lights is interesting, especially given the data spikes and strong auroras.

Ok, I'll bite. Great thread. Disclaimer: This is way above my pay grade.

One thought swirling and whirling like the collision of ocean surface and sub surface currents in this area is...could this light be tritium luminescence?



We know Tritium is being released in groundwater and storage leaks from Fukushima and could be carried along the currents where opposing currents could concentrate and whirlpool it.

The related thought is, could this radiation be creating spheres of Tritiated Water aka Super Heavy Water where currents converge, that becomes ordered in a liquid crystalline structure? Could these spheres of super heavy water then have the ordered geometry necessary to sustain chain reactions?

Like I said, way above my pay grade but the colors photographed, currents, light flash from the surface and tritium converging in this area begs the question.

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

its what i thought it looked like,,,Fussion in slow motion,,

same colour spectrum.

originally posted by: DancedWithWolves
Ok, I'll bite. Great thread. Disclaimer: This is way above my pay grade.

One thought swirling and whirling like the collision of ocean surface and sub surface currents in this area is...could this light be tritium luminescence?

We know Tritium is being released in groundwater and storage leaks from Fukushima and could be carried along the currents where opposing currents could concentrate and whirlpool it.

The related thought is, could this radiation be creating spheres of Tritiated Water aka Super Heavy Water where currents converge, that becomes ordered in a liquid crystalline structure? Could these spheres of super heavy water then have the ordered geometry necessary to sustain chain reactions?

Like I said, way above my pay grade but the colors photographed, currents, light flash from the surface and tritium converging in this area begs the question.

That's a VERY interesting theory, but tritium itself doesn't glow. It simply emits beta particles which glow various colors when striking different phosphors.

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Given the "new enviroment" that the occupants,, ie living stuff in this rather large area,,should we not see from a Biological side, ie Radiation from rare elements,,produce Genetic changes?

and

if this is swirling like the ingregients in a test tube,

,when does criticality or,
frequecy or
products of completion,,produce visible and or materiel changes of these new elements combined.

What is FlashPoint.?

a reply to: 8675309jenny

Agreed about the phosphors and tritium creating the luminescence, however this area of the Pacific off Japan has significant concerns about phosphorus pollution. Additionally, if we look back to the heavy use of phosphorus bombs during World War II...it seemed to support the possibility. Thanks for any and all input.

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

im more concered with,,,"in the head of the phosphorus match" type of effect,, as off right now,,

more so than,,use of phosphorus bombs during World War II.,,,really ww2 bombs,, wow.

a reply to: BobAthome

Ha! I hear you on that. It seems we have essentially the same concern.

I was just sharing two of numerous potential sources of what makes tritium's colors visible. Radiation is one of many potential theories as the photographer and co-pilot generously took the time to come here and share.

Hope this one is wrong. Really hope so. Thanks

Hi,
I have a few questions for jpcvanheijst.

1) About the red/orange glow phase, I was wondering, did you notice the green lights amongst the red and orange ones? as can be seen here:
www.pbase.com...

I'm asking because it could be artefacts/abberations from the long exposure/very high ISO.


2) Did you take a picture with no long exposure, because the less exposure I see is 3 secondes?
If not why? Would it be not enough noticeable?


3) did you check the exact location when you were flying exactly above the lights?
Because the picture of the red light far away ahead could maybe match with Shishaldin Volcano, which seems active actually. This was suggested by a member (Bob Rekin) of a french forum.

Thanks in advance for your answers!

This may just be a coincidence and I don't have time to do a translation right now, but I came across Moscow press reports of mysterious infrasound noise heard in the Pacific, stories here:

Причина загадочного звука в Тихом океане остается загадкой
[JimO quick translate: Reason for puzzling sound in the Pacific remains a puzzle.]

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