States with Higher Minimum Wage Boast Faster Job Growth

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That is one possibility. It is quite likely that raising the minimum income rate actually lost some jobs they might have added otherwise. Except that is, for those who just increased the rates marginally.

Watch the cost of living in Seattle once their $15 minimum comes into effect.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



That is one possibility. It is quite likely that raising the minimum income rate actually lost some jobs they might have added otherwise. Except that is, for those who just increased the rates marginally.



Watch the cost of living in Seattle once their $15 minimum comes into effect.

Go back and look at the facts I posted. People started calling me named and refused to address the facts. In fact .. here they are. It proves the only reason they have better "job growth" is because their unemployment is high and they are still recovering. Of course job growth will slow down when you reach low unemployment rates.

The "better off" high min. wage states.

June 2013 Unemployment --- June 2014 Unemployment --- CHANGE (A * indicates they are WORSE than the national average)
USA Avg.
7.5 --- 6.1 --- 1.4
Washington
7.0 --- 5.8 --- 1.2*
Oregon
7.8* --- 6.8* --- 1*
California
9* --- 7.4* --- 1.6
Vermont
4.4 --- 3.5 --- .9
Connecticut
7.9* --- 6.7* --- 1.2*
New Jersey
8.4* --- 6.6* --- 1.8
Illinois
9.2* --- 7.1* --- 2.1
Nevada
10* --- 7.7* --- 2.3
Massachusetts
7.1 --- 5.5 --- 1.6
Colorado
6.9 --- 5.5 --- 1.4

10 lowest min wage states.

2014 Unemployment Rates
Georgia
7.4*
Wyoming
4.0
Minnesota
5.0
Arkansas
6.2
West Virginia
(not on the list??)
Virginia
5.3
Utah
3.5
Texas
5.1
South Dakota
3.8

Hilarious how much better they are doing.

Average unemployment for top 10 high min. wage states.
6.78
Average unemployment for bottom 10 min. wage states.
4.47

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: criticalhit

Then you, indeed, have no understanding nor education on the subject of economics.

What a pathetic and baseless comeback

Nice retort "waaaaaa you don't know anything because you disagree with me"

if you had said "you don't understand the way I want economics to work because I believe big business deserves the lions share" maybe you'd have been honest.

But as it sits, I still manage to leave myself very slightly under a six figure income... while paying that 15.00 to my help.

Meanwhile... 6 other nations pay more than we do as minimum wage, Australia does it with something to the order of 1/7th the tax payer base (and it's double ours) and we are the no1 economy in the world not no 7, and California is doing it and Washington is doing...

So if they are DOING IT you have to be WRONG, it's like watching guy run a 3 minute mile and standing there saying "nope can't do it" and someone responds "I timed him he just did it Mr" and you saying Nope... can't be done...

It's being done genius, it's not even worth my time to debate, Open your eyes... it's happening and the world Is a better place where it is happening

originally posted by: xuenchen
The Link

In the 13 states that boosted their minimums at the beginning of the year, the number of jobs grew an average of 0.85 percent from January through June. The average for the other 37 states was 0.61 percent.

WOW !!!

a whole 1/4 of 1% difference !!!

Well that's a pretty irrational way of looking at it. States that increased minimum wage increased employment by .85%, compared to .61% in others. That is a .24% difference. Which means states that upped the minimum wage saw a 39% increase in employment compared with states that didn't.(.24/.61=.39) 39% is significant.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The unemployment percentage gives Zero indication of anything unless you were to see it run completely amok....

The reason for this is statistics don't portray the human condition.

In reality there are people who like to slack and if the overall economy is BETTER, as in the average person has money to burn, some people will slack off, I would actually expect under a higher minimum wage unemployment to go up... Kids are more likely to stay home with a parent who is doing better, your people who "bum" money actually can get some cash off the street, from your surfer types to your couch crashers, when people on average give a lot less care to 40 bucks or 3 bucks... the less productive bead selling members of our economy fare better and are less likely to work at a "real job"

If you want the economic indicator GO visit, you will see, that the progressive locations are the ones where people are 1: less stressed 2: going out on Friday night 3: optimistic 4: willing to throw those 5's and 10's back into the local economy... the stats mean little, the behavior and social climate is everything and this is beyond minimum wage, it's States in the West addressing the human condition on every level, Take Washington... Planting a Food forest, legalizing weed, upping the minimum wage... I could care less about the stats, I was there a couple of weeks ago overall the people are HAPPY and not SCARED

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: xuenchen
The Link

In the 13 states that boosted their minimums at the beginning of the year, the number of jobs grew an average of 0.85 percent from January through June. The average for the other 37 states was 0.61 percent.

WOW !!!

a whole 1/4 of 1% difference !!!

Well that's a pretty irrational way of looking at it. States that increased minimum wage increased employment by .85%, compared to .61% in others. That is a .24% difference. Which means states that upped the minimum wage saw a 39% increase in employment compared with states that didn't.(.24/.61=.39) 39% is significant.

You can answers these questions then right? .....

But what was the pay rates of the jobs that "increased" ?

And what kind of "jobs" were they ?

Interesting, but we need details to come to any accurate conclusions.

originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



The unemployment percentage gives Zero indication of anything unless you were to see it run completely amok....



The reason for this is statistics don't portray the human condition.



In reality there are people who like to slack and if the overall economy is BETTER, as in the average person has money to burn, some people will slack off, I would actually expect under a higher minimum wage unemployment to go up... Kids are more likely to stay home with a parent who is doing better, your people who "bum" money actually can get some cash off the street, from your surfer types to your couch crashers, when people on average give a lot less care to 40 bucks or 3 bucks... the less productive bead selling members of our economy fare better and are less likely to work at a "real job"



If you want the economic indicator GO visit, you will see, that the progressive locations are the ones where people are 1: less stressed 2: going out on Friday night 3: optimistic 4: willing to throw those 5's and 10's back into the local economy... the stats mean little, the behavior and social climate is everything and this is beyond minimum wage, it's States in the West addressing the human condition on every level, Take Washington... Planting a Food forest, legalizing weed, upping the minimum wage... I could care less about the stats, I was there a couple of weeks ago overall the people are HAPPY and not SCARED

100% completely false. When you have high unemployment you have more opportunities for job growth. All your talk of happy and scared is a red herring and has nothing to do with adding jobs. Another factor is population. A State with 10x the population has 10x the potential for job growth. As you can see several of the "high performing" states in the article actually have lower than average unemployment gains. The State the article made seem like it was doing the worse with "flat" job growth is the best of them all with the lowest unemploymentin the country.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: TheJourney

originally posted by: xuenchen
The Link

In the 13 states that boosted their minimums at the beginning of the year, the number of jobs grew an average of 0.85 percent from January through June. The average for the other 37 states was 0.61 percent.

WOW !!!

a whole 1/4 of 1% difference !!!

Well that's a pretty irrational way of looking at it. States that increased minimum wage increased employment by .85%, compared to .61% in others. That is a .24% difference. Which means states that upped the minimum wage saw a 39% increase in employment compared with states that didn't.(.24/.61=.39) 39% is significant.

You can answers these questions then right? .....

But what was the pay rates of the jobs that "increased" ?

And what kind of "jobs" were they ?

Interesting, but we need details to come to any accurate conclusions.

Don't know. I would love to get as much details on this as possible, because I used to be a hardcore libertarian, part of the ideology that increasing minimum wage actually decreases purchasing power for the lower class. Now I'm in a limbo with my political views, and there is a certain common sense to increasing minimum wage or somehow decreasing the wealth inequality. So I would love some hard data on something like this, I don't have a point to prove. My only point was that your acting like it was meaningless because it was only .24% was irrational, because numbers only mean anything by comparison, and by comparison it was 39% higher, which is significant.

a reply to: FyreByrd

its called money velocity.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That is one possibility. It is quite likely that raising the minimum income rate actually lost some jobs they might have added otherwise. Except that is, for those who just increased the rates marginally.

Watch the cost of living in Seattle once their $15 minimum comes into effect.

It wont change "that much" the reality (for the most part) is the downtown locations in any enjoyable cities are skyrocketed by nature of lifestyle in the first place, No one making Minimum wage lives on the upper west side of Manhattan unless they live with parents, you'd have to raise the minimum wage to 25.00 an hr just to cover parking and then those people could live in their cars. Downtown anywhere Is for couples making 60K+ each or individuals running 6 figures except for times young people might choose to stack 6 to a 2 bedroom, minimum wage folks commute

a reply to: TheJourney

I understand the "39%" ....

but this might be like comparing 39% of a penny to 39% of a hundred dollars.

percentage comparisons often are misleading and manipulated to sway opinions.

The article in the opening post is vague and has no substance imo.

originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: FyreByrd

Not when there are so many other factors in play. It would be a simple exercise if wages were the only factor to consider, but they are not.

By your definition Australia should have a robust economy ($16.33/hr) and China should be hurting badly with it's 1.19/hour.

Correlation / causation much?

Besides, Texas has a more robust economy than the states you listed that had increased their minimum wage. What conclusion can you draw from that?

The other factors are not involed. It's a simple correlation between two metrics. No causation is suggested, just that the two rise together or fall together.

a reply to: FyreByrd


Relationship Between Variables

Correlation can tell you something about the relationship between variables. It is used to understand:

whether the relationship is positive or negative
the strength of relationship.
Correlation is a powerful tool that provides these vital pieces of information.

In the case of family income and family expenditure, it is easy to see that they both rise or fall together in the same direction. This is called positive correlation.

In case of price and demand, change occurs in the opposite direction so that increase in one is accompanied by decrease in the other. This is called negative correlation.

explorable.com...

and more

As a rule of thumb, the following guidelines on strength of relationship are often useful (though many experts would somewhat disagree on the choice of boundaries).

Value of r Strength of relationship
-1.0 to -0.5 or 1.0 to 0.5 Strong
-0.5 to -0.3 or 0.3 to 0.5 Moderate
-0.3 to -0.1 or 0.1 to 0.3 Weak
-0.1 to 0.1 None or very weak

a reply to: bbracken677

And yet, those of us who did not fall into the debt trap from the 80's and 90's had to share in the Bailout in 08. Why? We lost everything because of one illness and took it and moved on. I saw a lot of my friends lose their retirement in 08 and no no one came to rescue them, they took it and went back to work. Why is it always the little guy who has to pay for the mistakes of rich investors and bankers. Don't our kids deserve better, even from Wall Street? My daughter makes 7.83/hr for taking care of other people's elderly cause they don't want to.

I just heard a new tax went into effect today, approved by Grover Norquist. They call it a "fee" on airline tickets. We don't travel anymore cause it just keeps adding up. Y'all sure seem to be able to twist things around. Good is bad and bad is good. I am getting real discouraged. I think women should stop having babies all over the world, unless of course, you are rich. It is just too painful. Sorry, for being human and wanting my daughter be able to live a decent life in The United States of America.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



The unemployment percentage gives Zero indication of anything unless you were to see it run completely amok....



The reason for this is statistics don't portray the human condition.



In reality there are people who like to slack and if the overall economy is BETTER, as in the average person has money to burn, some people will slack off, I would actually expect under a higher minimum wage unemployment to go up... Kids are more likely to stay home with a parent who is doing better, your people who "bum" money actually can get some cash off the street, from your surfer types to your couch crashers, when people on average give a lot less care to 40 bucks or 3 bucks... the less productive bead selling members of our economy fare better and are less likely to work at a "real job"



If you want the economic indicator GO visit, you will see, that the progressive locations are the ones where people are 1: less stressed 2: going out on Friday night 3: optimistic 4: willing to throw those 5's and 10's back into the local economy... the stats mean little, the behavior and social climate is everything and this is beyond minimum wage, it's States in the West addressing the human condition on every level, Take Washington... Planting a Food forest, legalizing weed, upping the minimum wage... I could care less about the stats, I was there a couple of weeks ago overall the people are HAPPY and not SCARED

100% completely false. When you have high unemployment you have more opportunities for job growth. All your talk of happy and scared is a red herring and has nothing to do with adding jobs. Another factor is population. A State with 10x the population has 10x the potential for job growth. As you can see several of the "high performing" states in the article actually have lower than average unemployment gains. The State the article made seem like it was doing the worse with "flat" job growth is the best of them all with the lowest unemploymentin the country.

I'm not wrong.

Numbers are BS

"Happy and Scared" is NOT a red herring... Economic theory is something for pricks in buildings with ideas, walking down the street at night is the reality.

Let's take Americas economic obsession... remaining the no 1 economy in the world. That looks awesome on paper right? Well the reality is we have 300 + Million Americans vs 1.5 Billion Chinese. At a basic common sense level for us to remain no 1 we would have to work, each of us as hard as 5 Chinese guys... That's some MOTHER BLEEPIN life the paper work frackers have in store for America right?

It's well over due that this country got past it's economic obsessions and started concerning itself with the HUMAN factor, because all the money in the world doesn't mean a damn thing if your killed on you way to work, surrounded by drug addicts, have neighborhoods you don't like to drive through, your "help" is passing around communicable diseases which you might catch etc, etc, et al...

Let me explain thoroughly... I USED to be one of you jerks, but...I got divorced and lost everything, credit, car my possessions and I had to rebuild through this process of what we call a society from ZERO, I have never experienced such a nightmare in my life, I didn't get it done without being shady as hell either... where before, Having 5-6 G extra a month above expenses House etc was where I was, I'm HAPPY to have 2.5 extra and pay people right and actually create community that prospers because after having nothing and being SCARED, being able to go out whenever I want is awesome, driving a Nissan instead of a Lexus is just freaking fine... I'm safe, I LOVE the world. The things I did to survive the bottom... those were things people you do this to might do to you.

So this percent that percent who gives a crap?

Australia is no 12 in the world economically.. it pays no 1 In minimum wage

Ever been to Sydney? It's Amazing... America is no 1 walk through Detroit, I god damn double dog dare you.

a reply to: criticalhit

Everything you just posted has absolutely nothing to do with the number of new jobs added in certain states. Absolutely a Red Herring.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: criticalhit

Everything you just posted has absolutely nothing to do with the number of new jobs added in certain states. Absolutely a Red Herring.

so long as you think people and numbers can be calculated together you'll never actually understand the real answers to the situation no matter what hocus pocus you dream up on paper. Emotion and Satisfaction have no numerical constant.

If life is crap for half your population you wont have a good economy no matter what figures you dream up. And if life is good for most people those people will surprise you with what they accomplish.

You can't do it on a calculator my friend, you have to be a human being.

a reply to: criticalhit

Just...

Just thank you for this post.

I feel like a lot of people that scream and shout to the rafters that this would be "economically devistating" are a lot of people without many wants in life and they probably earn a decent livable wage and are likely over the age of 35 (I have come to this
conclusion based purely on what I have personally seen time and time again).

Got while it was "good". Not to discredit their hard work and efforts mind you.

However I am a younger person and I have to work nearly 8 days straight if I want close to 38 hours. It's hard. It's everywhere; and it's not just me... Uh HELLO!



I'm going to school, "bettering" myself and going through all of the proper channel to probably not even secure a stable financial future. But I have to, because what else can I do? Work hard, try harder. But I find it odd that we are all still somehow considered as "lazy" by these people and it's infuriating. *btw I only post when I get ticked enough by someone on here so good job Xuenchen*

"Oh where do you work? Ha!"

And in the same breath "Consider yourself lucky you have a job! Now head down and chin up kiddo".

And I'm not asking for much here, really I promise. .. Just a paycheck that is adjusted somewhere even close in line with the rampant inflation that has happened within the last 20, hell 10 years which was also brought apon us by these same wise old hacks. A can guaradamnty you it will not worsen our already loose cannon inflation. (Also why isn't that brought up more often? It's already unsustainable to no fault of my own. Just more people rigging a game)

I think these people need knocked down a few pegs so they can see what the reality of America is REALLY like: for the alarmingly vast majority of us (that somehow don't count or are discredited in their disgustingly cushy and propped up delusions of grandeur)

~just my honest feelings

Title should read "States boast faster job growth in spite of high minimum wage". Following that logic, what if we raised the minimum wage to $100/hour? Would that super accelerate job growth in that area?

originally posted by: criticalhit

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

a reply to: criticalhit



Everything you just posted has absolutely nothing to do with the number of new jobs added in certain states. Absolutely a Red Herring.

so long as you think people and numbers can be calculated together you'll never actually understand the real answers to the situation no matter what hocus pocus you dream up on paper. Emotion and Satisfaction have no numerical constant.



If life is crap for half your population you wont have a good economy no matter what figures you dream up. And if life is good for most people those people will surprise you with what they accomplish.



You can't do it on a calculator my friend, you have to be a human being.

The whole OP is based on numbers. Your post is a complete red herring.