States with Higher Minimum Wage Boast Faster Job Growth

a reply to: FyreByrd

I believe the minimum wage in Texas is still 7.25.

Texas leads nation in job growth


I guess you need to change the title of this thread......

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: TKDRL

Like xuenchen said, before I asked the question; If raising minimum wage would be a boost for the economy, then businesses would be doing it without government dictating it.

Some companies are: IKEA, Gap, Costco, In-N-Out Burger, Shake Shack, Ben & Jerry's, Whole Foods and others are sure to follow.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

And again I will state that raising the minimum wage stimulates the economy because 100% of wages paid to low wage workers are put directly back into the local ecomony.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: FyreByrd

Consumers boost job growth, not unlivable wages, not tax breaks for the wealthy. A raise across the board will simulate your economies more than any other thing. The more people make the more they spend thus simulating economies and fueling more taxes collected.

Aren't the people tired of the conservatives lies about tax breaks creating jobs? Lies about wage increases killing the economy?

The more people have to spend the better everyone does, the more jobs and economic growth for all classes.

Stop listening to pundits, stop listening to politicians from red states where poverty and failed government are the rule and not the exception. Compare red and blue states and look who is doing a better job for all the people and not just the rich.

Bears repeating, again and again. Thank you for the vid.

originally posted by: NonsensicalUserName
a reply to: xuenchen

The number of jobs haven't gone down have they?

So that blows the theory that "minimum wage increases lead to job loss" out of the water, or at the very least pokes another hole in it.

furthermore; It's surprising that you would care what kind of jobs they were, I don't recall anyone predicting that, are they ideal jobs? probably not, it's going to take a lot more political clout to do anything about that though when we have bipartisan support for free trade agreements, and a GOP dead-set against any large public infrastructure programs.

I hate to be that guy; but -- come on, this is common sense.

There are going to be more jobs available if the jobs that are available are paying enough to cover the cost of living.

Why?

Because when you don't make enough to cover the cost of living, you get a second job, or a third even.

When one person has 3 jobs, that's 2 jobs less for you.

Common sense at play.

a reply to: CB328

dollar value is supply and demand. raising the minimum wage doesn't make more money. It just gives you more of what is already there. The net value of our economy isn't increasing. Its just being cut into smaller pieces. Its like me taking a potato chip and breaking it into 3 pieces, then telling you I am giving you 3 times as many chips.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: CB328

dollar value is supply and demand. raising the minimum wage doesn't make more money. It just gives you more of what is already there. The net value of our economy isn't increasing. Its just being cut into smaller pieces. Its like me taking a potato chip and breaking it into 3 pieces, then telling you I am giving you 3 times as many chips.

Well yeah, but really -- the problem isn't that there isn't enough potato chips... the problem is too few people have hoarded bags and bags of it.

There is WAAAAY more than enough money to go around...

There is 2 mindsets, the correct one, and the greedy one.

The correct one says, if you're a business, you abandon the "get rich quick" mentality and you pay your employers more and make less.

If all employers did this, the employees would have more liquid in their pocket, and they would bring even MORE money back to you -- in which they'd make some of that back through their "allowance" offered by the employer.

The wrong mentality, is the get rich quick mentality, I'm gonna be greedy and save every penny and pay people less than they require just to make my pocket fatter.

This is the mentality that actually puts companies out of business. So, when the economy is down and you're getting LESS sales for whatever it is you're selling, the WRONG answer is to RAISE the price of your product. It's ALWAYS the wrong answer. The logic is as follows, "If I raise the price, I need to sell less to make the same amount, and since we're selling less, this is the route to follow."

This is wrong, the proper logic is as follows "Sales are down, so I will LOWER my prices, to make my product MORE affordable to prospective buyers, this means I'll have to sell more to make the same profit, but if the price is right, I will sell many more."

Greed is a disease, a sickness -- it doesn't actually translate into you getting richer, it actually translates to you closing up shop.

I can't believe some of what I read...

1: Anyone not making an amount that pays for an apartment SHOULD STRIKE IMMEADATELY and shut down all commerce, because the number of people living like that could do it.

2: Number of jobs created means nothing if they are crap jobs because your state allows them to turn you into slaves, any business paying minimum wage if it's below a living wage should be boycotted by everyone

3: Inflation is not is not a necessity of higher wages, if a business owner raises prices to compensate and guarantee 35%, that is called "Price gouging" and they should be JAILED, there are actual business practices that can help earn more money like efficiency and better service and a god damned original product to make more money, not opening a "franchise" essentially doing nothing but investing money with ZERO innovation for a return guaranteed at 35%, that is not good capitalism or good business, bring it down to 20% it's still a good investment again these people need to be JAILED

4: EVERY OTHER NATION ON THE PACIFIC RIM MANAGES THIS

5: Low paid employees suck, it's bad for the economy in esoteric ways, crime, disease and health care, quality of service... all of which DESTROYS TOURISM perpetuating a cycle in which money doesn't enter America

6: There is simply no argument in regards to wealth disparity in this nation

7: Job creation by large corporations is meaningless, it's a horrible life, real job creation is ordinary people having the money to open NEW businesses creating competition and thus better service, innovation etc... These are basic rules of good capitalism any 3rd grader should know

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: CB328

dollar value is supply and demand. raising the minimum wage doesn't make more money. It just gives you more of what is already there. The net value of our economy isn't increasing. Its just being cut into smaller pieces. Its like me taking a potato chip and breaking it into 3 pieces, then telling you I am giving you 3 times as many chips.

Brilliant example BFFT. Of course this is oversimplified. This is why the national debt will never be paid off, if you borrow $100 at an interest of 4% you owe $104 dollars, the problem is you only have $100 dollars in circulation to pay it back. Great example though, I love potato chips.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Thank you for your reasoned answer. I have worked in Huge businesses but don't really have any true familiarity with them and just on an emotional and instictual level find them abborant, even though I worked at one time for one of the best of the Bigs, Hughes Aircraft. I worked there when GM bought the company and saw them start to sell of pieces of the company. That company doesn't exist anylonger - so that colors by ideas about Big Business.

There is this idea of that once a group gets larger then 150, it can no longer function efficiently and humanely and that a new entity should be spun off. The religious group The Hutterites use a similar idea. As does distributed computing. I work for many years with a school both payed and unpayed that had about 150 staff and around 300 students and it worked well, a bit erratically, but the students received an excellent liberal arts education and were in demand at Universtiies. This was part of a world-wide school association but each school is completely autonomous.

I like, for a social functions the idea of interconnecting webs rather then hierarchies because when we are responsible for our own domain we have pride of ownership (in a psychic sense). Ad hoc business units can join together to accomplish large tasks as needed (as the Japanese do for wiring harnesses in Autos).

The hierarchical top-down model doesn't work. It's relevance is threatened and it is fighting back to survive as do all systems. As a system of governance it has proved beyond a doubt that it only benefits the few.

I have trouble seeing how any thinking person can defend it. But change is scary, it's hard to see anything you haven't seen before. I get it.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: CB328

dollar value is supply and demand. raising the minimum wage doesn't make more money. It just gives you more of what is already there. The net value of our economy isn't increasing. Its just being cut into smaller pieces. Its like me taking a potato chip and breaking it into 3 pieces, then telling you I am giving you 3 times as many chips.

Brilliant example BFFT. Of course this is oversimplified. This is why the national debt will never be paid off, if you borrow $100 at an interest of 4% you owe $104 dollars, the problem is you only have $100 dollars in circulation to pay it back. Great example though, I love potato chips.

Come on - this is nonsense in a "Factional Reserve Economy". There is no PIE.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: MarlinGrace

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: CB328

dollar value is supply and demand. raising the minimum wage doesn't make more money. It just gives you more of what is already there. The net value of our economy isn't increasing. Its just being cut into smaller pieces. Its like me taking a potato chip and breaking it into 3 pieces, then telling you I am giving you 3 times as many chips.

Brilliant example BFFT. Of course this is oversimplified. This is why the national debt will never be paid off, if you borrow $100 at an interest of 4% you owe $104 dollars, the problem is you only have $100 dollars in circulation to pay it back. Great example though, I love potato chips.

Come on - this is nonsense in a "Factional Reserve Economy". There is no PIE.

You don't have to accept anything this old man writes, I just use a common sense approach to everything. Might I recommend a book called Babylon's Banksters by Joseph Farrell. It will explain the PIE bakers thoroughly, with great detail.

originally posted by: criticalhit
I can't believe some of what I read...

1: Anyone not making an amount that pays for an apartment SHOULD STRIKE IMMEADATELY and shut down all commerce, because the number of people living like that could do it.

2: Number of jobs created means nothing if they are crap jobs because your state allows them to turn you into slaves, any business paying minimum wage if it's below a living wage should be boycotted by everyone

3: Inflation is not is not a necessity of higher wages, if a business owner raises prices to compensate and guarantee 35%, that is called "Price gouging" and they should be JAILED, there are actual business practices that can help earn more money like efficiency and better service and a god damned original product to make more money, not opening a "franchise" essentially doing nothing but investing money with ZERO innovation for a return guaranteed at 35%, that is not good capitalism or good business, bring it down to 20% it's still a good investment again these people need to be JAILED

4: EVERY OTHER NATION ON THE PACIFIC RIM MANAGES THIS

5: Low paid employees suck, it's bad for the economy in esoteric ways, crime, disease and health care, quality of service... all of which DESTROYS TOURISM perpetuating a cycle in which money doesn't enter America

6: There is simply no argument in regards to wealth disparity in this nation

7: Job creation by large corporations is meaningless, it's a horrible life, real job creation is ordinary people having the money to open NEW businesses creating competition and thus better service, innovation etc... These are basic rules of good capitalism any 3rd grader should know

The problem with this is, A.) If you strike and can't afford a home, you lose your home, so you end up on the street, that's why they can't strike.

And B.) Price gouging is seldom illegal. It's 100% legal to price gouge in Florida for instance.

But yeah, I hear you.

Oh, and the problem with your #7 is that the major corporations handle everything now. Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace those are your hardware stores -- clothing stores are all corporations, even mechanical service industry is all franchised, Service America/Meineke etc....

So there is virtually no room for the small business owner because the corporation has discounts and subsidies that don't apply to the small business owner.....

So really? Small business is essentially dead.

This is what monopoly laws were invented for, although, through legal loopholes the mega corps circumvent monopoly laws.

People are against redistribution of wealth and what not, but there becomes a time when corporations become too big, there is also a time where personal bank accounts become too big also. This is what monopoly laws were aiming to prevent.

Redistribution of wealth is really the only answer and the best way to do this is by increasing the minimum wage. Fact.

a reply to: FyreByrd


Some interesting concepts and ideas, research is in order. Thanks

a reply to: FyreByrd

Not 100%... you forget increased taxes and SS held out.

When companies raise wages, the pressures to increase prices to the consumer also increase.

Think about it this way: If every fast food burger place doubled their labor costs by increasing wages accordingly, what would be the effect on the cost of those burgers?

Would more people buy the higher priced burgers? Would the burger shops increase the number of people employed? What would be the effects on other low paying jobs, and then the resultant ripples as those above the minimum income workers demanded similar increases?

Think about it: If the burger shops increased their minimum pay to $15/hr...what about the managers? Their income would have to be increased as well (they do not normally make that much or, at best, not much more than that), and then the increases are passed, in ripple fashion, up the ladder.

So...the results would be fewer burgers sold (far fewer), fewer employees employed, and if the effects are consumed by other related industries the results would be bread, milk etc increasing in cost...resulting in massive inflation thereby cutting into the increased wages.

The bottom line...we would wind up making more and paying more for everything with a net result of what? No gain...

a reply to: Laykilla

The populace could do it if we stood with each other, your right a rent strike would have to go along with a job strike... and why not? How many cops are there lol, how fast can they process paper work? Just don't let them evict your neighbor

The problem is Americans have lost touch with "United We Stand Divided We Fall" it was always us against them but now even the lowliest of people like cops like to think they are higher class.

a reply to: bbracken677

100% Wrong, if it wasn't 100% Wrong Australia, Japan, Taiwan wouldn't exist as Nations

That's PRICE GOUGING, 35% of the take isn't necessary, these are people who accumulated wealth to buy into over priced investments, I know a lot of people who own fast food restaurants, circle k's etc... and honestly it's little more than an investment property, these people barely work, some for the first year or so and the numbers they maintain come down to not having to do anything ever, One particular friend has 7 stores in a chain all fast food, he goes to work one day a week to make sure payroll Is handled well, has a district manager who handles visiting the stores and that's it... You can't even classify this as "business" because in reality it is investment and an investment paying off 35% to you or you knock up prices is obscene, drop that to 17.5 % provide benefits and higher pay and your still rich.

There is nothing, nothing about fast food from an owners perspective that is actually a business, it's a formula, there is zero innovation, terrible service, it's a downgrade in a major way from a real restaurant, mostly it harms people and is disgusting.

There are no guarantees of business success, or the mandatory earnings of X profit because Mc Donald's wants to endlessly sell Franchise's and treat it as a sure thing so people pay upwards of 750,000 - 1.5 Million to buy into an Investment that masquerades as a business and the larger corporation hires lobbyists to assure it remains this way at the expense of people a "business" in real capitalism is supposed to compete, innovate and adapt to changing markets, not flourish under a Monopoly they create by assuring low wages, no benefits and high rent for anyone else... that stuff is supposed to be ILLEGAL

If you can't do as well by keeping up with a living wage you better learn to offer better service, better product and new ideas because that's how capitalism works... raising prices so you maintain a lavish lifestyle and don't work is called "Price Gouging" and people who do it should go to PRISON

a reply to: criticalhit

You are not operating in a vacuum. Neither are apartment complexes. There are bills that have to be paid that are continually going up (energy, water, taxes) and as a result rents have to increase.

If everyone in an apt complex went on a "rent strike" depending on how deep the owner's pockets are the place could close and everyone would be without a home within a fairly short time.

Not sure why people automatically think that strikes are good. If you go on strike (from your job) for a month, do a little math and figure out how long you would have to work at the whatever gain you achieved over the offer when you went on strike to make up for the month of wages lost.

Gained an extra 25 cents/hour from a month long strike? (let's assume, for ease of calc sake that the strike was an even 4 weeks and the last offer was $10/hour and you came back for 10.25/hr). It takes you 6400 hours to break even with lost wages at that rate. Roughly 3 years...before you break even. What if there is another strike before the 3 years is up? hmmm

a reply to: bbracken677

There is no reason why prices have to "go up" constantly or over a rate of time so short

Your talking the slave speak of overlords who are greedy and ruthless and demand to make more and more money without practicing (again) the basic principals of capitalism one of which is COMPETITION.

Energy? here in my State which happens to be AZ there Is for al intents and purposes one energy provider APS, if you install Solar you still have to pay them, they have an utter Monopoly even though the reality is the technology has come to pass to make them unnecessary for many people, Germany for example can supply the entire country on Solar but here in the sunniest damn place this side of the Sahara we can't have solar? don't tell me about energy or whatever other invented crisis has to keep "going up" because some scum bags want to make BILLIONS

What your saying amounts to the argument of 1% of Billionares who would be very sad if they were just worth Hundreds of Millions lol... an argument that in the end translates to PLEEEEEAAAASE don't do it...

The entire premise, you'll still be evicted because the power companies and the taxes... oh yeah the govt needs it more than the people right?

How does the building your in collapse and why does the power go out if you go natural? Why the hell do those same people have no rights to gardens for food? why does everyone in parts of Europe have a garden in much of America your not even allowed to or even open a lemonade stand?

There is no argument your going to give to rationalize: Monopolies, Price Gouging, Profiteering and Extortion: Every Other Modern Nation manages controlling these things.

a reply to: criticalhit

I didnt quite get, from the rest of your post, what was it that doesn't work as I described (that I was 100% wrong on).

If you are talking about labor costs being passed on to the consumer: That is exactly how it works.

If you are talking about significant increases in minimum wage having a rippling effect resulting in inflation: That is exactly how it works.

I dunno what economic theory you subscribe to, but if your claim is that the above is 100% wrong, then you must subscribe to the bizarro world model of economic theory.

a reply to: criticalhit
ROFL

No...what I am talking about are the observations of having worked in the private sector for oh...40 years. Having experienced double digit inflation. Having experienced the effects of numerous fluctuations of the economy. Having experienced the balance sheet (P&L statements) and having to adjust pricing based on market rates, based on labor and material costs etc etc.

Do you really think that companies make more than 8-10% profit? Some would consider themselves lucky if they could reach that level before going out of business.

It's pretty clear that you have no experience or training and just mouthing the platitudes of the left (corporations are evil!! OMG another company is moving it's operations overseas to be able to compete internationally!!WHY???) lol You are so typical: Complain about the evil corporation and encourage higher corporate taxation and then turn right around and complain because jobs are going overseas. LOL

You do realize that corporate taxes are paid for by the consumer, right?