Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: victor7

Why? arming terrorists on Russia's soil will be an act of war and will be met with an appropriate response.

And yet it is wrong when Ukraine fights back against armed terrorists from Russia and now Chechnya.

It's only right for Russia to do this and no other country.

Oh the hypocrisy in your post is astonishing.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: victor7

Why? arming terrorists on Russia's soil will be an act of war and will be met with an appropriate response.

And yet it is wrong when Ukraine fights back against armed terrorists from Russia and now Chechnya.

It's only right for Russia to do this and no other country.

Oh the hypocrisy in your post is astonishing.

The people in Easter Ukraine are facing rough treatment from the Right Wing Nazi groups who have thrown by force the legitimate President.

That Russia is arming terrorist and rebels is just a wild speculation and disinformation. If Russia chooses to do so, Eastern region will be a free country within a matter of days.

Ukraine in itself is just an experimental set up of communities as also shown by the history. Western region people do not feel much in common with the east and thus are themselves better off breaking away and seeking their own destiny.

Nazi ideology has no place in Russian communities. Those imposing it, either change or break away from any further interactions.

Russia will choke the Nazi and sly NWO designs where its interests are involved.

a reply to: victor7

The people in Easter Ukraine are facing rough treatment from the Right Wing Nazi groups who have thrown by force the legitimate President.

And who do you consider the legitimate president of UKraine?

And is this president not allowed to stop the armed insurgency or seperatists that are causing turmoil in his country Ukraine, which btw the citizens in Eastern Ukraine are still part of?

And why is it the Eastern part of Ukraine hasn't done this before now?

Why did they wait til Putin decided to illegally annex Crimea to decide they wanted to leave Ukraine?

a reply to: victor7

Ukraine in itself is just an experimental set up of communities as also shown by the history.

Also history shows that Russia caused the death of millions of Ukranians in the 1930's...

The Ukrainian–Soviet War followed, in which the Red Army established control in late 1919.[6] The conquerors created the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which on 30 December 1922 became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union. The Soviet policy on Ukrainian language and Ukrainian culture changed two times; in the 1920s Ukrainian was established as the language of administration and schools. In the 1930s it turned to russification. In 1932 and 1933, millions of people, mostly peasants, in Ukraine starved to death in a politically induced famine (Holodomor) due to the "liquidation of the Kulak class". It is estimated that 6 to 8 million people died from hunger in the Soviet Union during this period, of whom 4 to 5 million were Ukrainians.

en.wikipedia.org...

If you want to discuss history of Ukraine you need to look at more than Russia's version of it.

Ukraine was not some experimental set up of communities as they have existed since the Middle ages.

Prehistoric Ukraine as part of the Pontic steppe has been an important factor in Eurasian cultural contact, including the spread of the Chalcolithic, the Bronze Age, Indo-European expansion and the domestication of the horse.[1][2][3]

Part of Scythia in antiquity and settled by Getae, who are often confused with the Goths, in the migration period, Ukraine is also the site of early Slavic expansion, and enters history proper with the establishment of the medieval state of Kyivan Rus, which emerged as a powerful nation in the Middle Ages but disintegrated in the 12th century. By the middle of the 14th century, present Ukrainian territories were under the rule of three external powers: the Golden Horde, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and the Kingdom of Poland, during the 15th century these lands came under the rule of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland, Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth (since 1569), and Crimean Khanate.[4] After a 1653 rebellion against dominantly Polish Catholic rule, an assembly of the people (rada) agreed to the Treaty of Pereyaslav in January 1654. Soon, the southeastern portion of the Polish-Lithuanian empire east of the Dnieper River came under Russian rule, for centuries.[5] After the Partitions of Poland (1772–1795) and conquest of Crimean Khanate, Ukraine was divided between the Tsardom of Russia and Habsburg Austria.

en.wikipedia.org...

Again you should look at more than just the Russian version of history.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Very important that western Ukraine region breaks away and seeks its own course. That will end all the problems. No use fighting a prolonged civil war. That would collapse the economy which is already teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

It is already costing $3M a day to Kiev and things have not even been intense. Russia cuts off the gas supply and that would be another disaster. Time for west Ukraine to go its own way and make its own choices.

Back to burning: Maidan activists set tires on fire to protest eviction (VIDEO)


The Maidan who were influential in the ousting of Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych - are disobeying orders to dismantle their barricades in Central Kiev.

The newly elected Kiev mayor - Vladimir Klitshchko, ordered Maidan to remove their barricades:

"The key goal of the Maidan – ousting the dictator – has been reached, so the barricades should be dismantled,” he said.

So what was Maidan's response:

Nauseous black smoke from burning tires is back in Central Kiev. A group of Maidan activists set them on fire in a gesture of protest against an order from Kiev’s elected Mayor Vladimir Klitshchko’s to remove the barricades.

What do the Maidan want?

They threatened to start “a third Maidan” (following the 2004 protest during the “orange revolution” and the second one in November 2013-February 2014), unless the order to dismantle the barricades in the Ukrainian capital is rescinded.

Here's what Poroshenko had to say:

"No Maidans would affect the president, no matter how much anyone would want it. Otherwise Maidan would no longer be the will of the people and would turn into a common spin technique. I know how to deal with such techniques,” he said.

The Right Sector will be used to clear out the Maidan in Central Kiev.




. . . Something to keep a close eye on - Tymoshenko is a big supporter of the Maidan and also has a history of 'fall-outs' with newly elected president Poroshenko back in 2005 as well as Igor Kolomoysky in 2010 who refused to finance her campaign.

a reply to: victor7

It is already costing $3M a day to Kiev and things have not even been intense. Russia cuts off the gas supply and that would be another disaster.

Russia isn't the only country that can supply oil to Ukraine if the demand calls for it.

Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said Monday, "We are willing to supply any shortage which may arise." He said the country's present output is roughly 9.6 M/bd, while it maintains a capacity of 12.5 M/bd.

He said further that both Saudi Arabia and OPEC would step in to address any additional demand for oil. He also noted that $100 per barrel was a fair price for oil.

oilpro.com...

So if Russia does stop oil for Ukraine they will still be able to get it, although that is bound to make Russia mad.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: ALoveSupreme

In some ways this is starting to resemble the American misadventure in Afghanistan.

Not really !! In Russian doctrine of war fighting, even now, there is little value given to few losses in lives of civilians and soldiers. In Chechnya, more than a few occasions 70 to 100 or more soldiers were killed in intense ambush and Russian General staff kept pressing on to the initial objectives in that particular theater. If it were the US, they would have ran away or atleast stopped operations until more control of the battlefield situation was achieved.

Putin needs to arm the rebels with atleast half way decent weapons. He cannot be stingy and harsh to people on his side of the fight. Tanks, Helicopters, APCs taken out everyday by rebels will have horrendous impact on Kiev army soldiers and they will desert in big numbers.

Sorry, I should have clarified...

I meant the first USA misadventure -- the CIA's Operation Cyclone (1979-1989). This is when they armed the mujahadeen with advanced anti-air systems and financed training of paramilitaries. This is the situation most comparable to what Russia is doing now.

This sounds more and more practical. West Ukraine region needs to find its own niche in life and LEAVE !!

A group of people with such animosity and contempt towards Russia and Russian origin people cannot co-exist in a same country. They wanted independence from Russia in all aspects and this is the best way to achieve one in a long lasting manner.

US doubles budget of aid to military in Ukraine – media

US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt has declared an increase of the budget of the US assistance to the Ukrainian defense sphere, mainly aimed at improving combat readiness of the Ukrainian border-security troops.

"During the last three months, we doubled the budget of the US military aid to Ukraine. Particular emphasis is placed on the improvement of combat readiness of the Ukrainian border-security troops and their ability to defend the borders of their country. I expect that this assistance will continue to grow," the American diplomat said in an interview with ZN.UA (Mirror of the Week. Ukraine).

Figures.


The U.S. govt has enough money for its destabilizations/war-efforts. . . but not enough for it's shrinking domestic economy. . .

LoL! Can anyone confirm if this is true:

Two young ladies infected hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers with gonorrhea

A couple of young Ukrainian infected with gonorrhea half of local army battalion after having sex with them.

The girls from the Kherson province infected with blennorrhagia, better known as gonorrhea, over 200 soldiers when they left the military installations with a permit.

The 220 soldiers were admitted to a venereological hospital to be treated for this  disease and the Ukrainian Security Service has already initiated an investigation to identify the girls responsible for the massive infection.

Been hearing reports about this but haven't seen 'official' reports of this being true, yet.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

If so they will prolly be dead withing a week. Its not nice to infect someone with anyhing and not expect retribution of th emost painful kind. Then again they did have sex with a couple of sluts apparently that they should had worn triple layer protection with. Whats worse? being a unpaid slut or a soldier? tough call.

a reply to: yuppa

Whats worse? being a unpaid slut or a soldier? tough call.

A soldier is because he has to worry about someone shooting at them and not ...well I hope you see where I was going.

Trying to say this without being too blunt. Hard to do.

a reply to: victor7

3 million a day is a drop in the financial bucket compared to Russia economic losses.

No the west of Ukraine should not break away. What would solve the problems would be for Russia to stop funding / supplying the failed insurgency in the east. Russia has failed to produce one item of evidence to support their claims that started this whole mess.

The government of Ukraine has every right to take measures to preserve their nation, and as much as I cant stand Assad, the same argument can be and has been applied to Syria by Russia. An Iranian guards commander was killed in Syria today, once again showing Iran has lied about its level of involvement in that mess.

Out of curiosity do you believe half the stuff that you post or do you just make it up and hope no one will notice? I ask this because you seem to post "specifics", like Ukraine and the 3 million a day, while offering nothing to support your claims.

As has been stated before, this is not the cold war and its not the 1980's. People are not going to just accept Moscow's position without question (much to the irritation of der Feurer Putin).

The reason Putin pulled the troops back is to stabilize his position in Russia and on the world stage. There has been no evidence of ethnic Russians being targeted, which has now been confirmed by the UN / UNHCR / OSCE.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 26m
#OSCE hasn't reestablished contact w/ 4monitors of #Donetsk team, nor w/ 4monitors&interpreter of #Lugansk team us6.campaign-archive1.com... … |EMPR

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 32m
Statement after the trilateral meeting between the EU, #Russia and #Ukraine on #EnergySecurity europa.eu...!Vm77kw @EU_Commission | EMPR

However apparently they are failing to protect pro kiev protestors in Crimea -

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 37m
3pro-#Ukrainian activists went missing in #Crimea this week: Leonid Korzh, Timur Shaimardanov, Seiran Zinedinov ru.krymr.com... |EMPR

Michael Weiss ‏@michaeldweiss · 1h
Ukraine Liveblog: Poroshenko Vows to Avenge Helicopter Deaths www.interpretermag.com... …

Michael Weiss ‏@michaeldweiss · 1h
Like North Korea, Putin’s Russia ‘Destroying Itself From Within,’ Akhmetov Says www.interpretermag.com... … via @Interpreter_Mag

An interesting read -

China breathes fire on Ukraine's Crimea - October 2013

The Chinese are interested in a former Soviet health resort that used to be the most popular tourist destination during the times of the USSR. Chinese investors will come to the Crimea with a plan to build a deep-water port in the Black Sea for redistribution of the cargo coming from the East to Europe. Thus, the "Crimea" port will become a major hub on the route of the new Silk Road, bypassing Russia.

Considering the geographical location of the Crimea that lies on the path of the Eurasian flow (goods coming from the east, and in particular, from the booming China), one can imagine the importance of the autonomous republic in world trade. The potential of this trade route is confirmed by the global statistics numbers provided by a Ukrainian news agency citing the head of the project Alexey Mazyuk. According to the data, in 2011 the volume of traffic of goods going into the European market was $1.1 trillion dollars, but it is not the limit. Volumes of goods from the east will grow continuously, and the average increase is estimated at 10 percent per year.

In October 2013 China was still attempting to bypass Russia in order to get its goods to Europe.

"For the Chinese it provides a new basis for consolidation. The Chinese are now investing in infrastructure virtually anywhere in the world, anywhere they can," said Mikhail Mamut. "Chinese investments in Africa are likely dominant if we talk in terms of volume. In many African countries China is generally number one investor; the Chinese are also very active in Central Asia. On the territory of the western outskirts of the CIS they are not that apparent so far. For China, it is first and foremost a good opportunity to gain a foothold in the region. On the other hand, the project is definitely interesting. The general logic of the Chinese is absolutely clear - this is a long term infrastructure project with plenty of potential. Such projects are great for investment when you have a long-term goal. The goal, from the point of view of infrastructure projects, is an opportunity to strengthen the influence on other projects in the region."

In addition, this port will be part of the project of recreating the Great Silk Road initiated by the Chinese President and recently supported by the president of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych during his visit to Beijing.

Click link for remainder of article...

As I have stated.. The cooperation between Russia and China is based on near term goals / stabilization. In the long run the goals of Russia and China are incompatible.

As an example -

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 2h
#Chinese company halts work on #Crimean deepwater port euromaidanpr.com... … | EMPR News pic.twitter.com/P8Dy7xB9M3

Why stop construction?

To respect the territorial sovereignty of Ukraine.


It is very much in the Chinese interest to resist a "new Russia". Politically, economically, militarily...

Like North Korea, Putin’s Russia ‘Destroying Itself From Within,’ Akhmetov Says

Staunton, May 31 – In the 1950s, North Korea was developing rapidly and South Korea was extremely poor, but over the succeeding decades, North Korea cut itself off from the world, became ever more authoritarian, and bankrupted itself with massive military spending. South Korea did just the reverse and is now the economic powerhouse on the peninsula.



Putin’s Russia is on the same path as North Korea, an isolated and increasingly impoverished regime that can take pride only in its army and nuclear weapons, while Ukraine has a chance to emerge from its current poverty because it is democratic and open to the world.

That suggestive comparison is offered by Ra# Akhmetov, the editor of Kazan’s “Zvezda Povolzhya,” in a lead article in the current issue of his newspaper [no. 19 (699), May 29-June 4, 2014, p. 1].

“It has become commonplace in Russia to write about Ukraine as ‘a non-existing state,’ to point to its divisions and its poverty, to suggest that it has no future and to suggest that Russia is a successful one, the independent editor writes. But such commentaries are wrong on at least two grounds.

On the one hand, claims that Ukrainians “cannot create their own state is an openly racist thesis,” one based on the assumption that some peoples can build a state while others cannot. And on the other, the jury is still very much out on whether Ukraine with all its troubles will fail and equally on whether the Russian Federation will succeed.

Click link for remainder of article.

Putin’s Shift on Ukraine Result of His Visit to Beijing, Kazan Editor Says

Staunton, May 24 – Vladimir Putin began pulling Russian forces back from the Ukrainian border and distancing himself from the secessionists in east Ukraine after his visit to Beijing convinced him that China, however useful tactically, is a long-term threat to Russia and that Moscow needs the West as a counterbalance to Chinese power, according to Ra# Akhmetov.



In the lead article in the current issue of Zvezda Povolzhya, the Kazan editor argues that Putin has begun to recognize that Russia is not quite as much a Eurasian country as he has suggested and that “an alliance with China” will lead to “the Sinification” of Russia and “the slow liquidation of Russian civilization” (no. 18 (698), May 22-28, 2014, p. 1).

Indeed, Akhmetov suggests, given the gas price concessions he had to make to China and the expansion of the Chinese presence in Russia he had to agree to, Putin may now wish he had purchased Crimea from Ukraine rather than seized it because in that event he would not have alienated Europe and the United States nearly as much.

Putin’s plan to “re-orient” the Russian economy away from Europe toward China was “condemned to failure from the outset,” the Kazan editor says, because it quickly became obvious during the Kremlin leader’s visit to the Chinese capital that “Russia is not Eurasia, but rather a completely European country.”

China is, Ahmetov says Putin became aware during his visit, “too distinctive and alien for the Russian world.” If Russians are now upset by the arrival of ten million gastarbeiters from Central Asia, many of whom were already adapted to Russia beforehand, “what will happen when ten million Chinese” or even more – “arrive in the course of the next few decades?”

Click link for remainder of article...


As I have been saying with regards to Russia-China relations.


Putin did not shoot himself in the foot with his venture... He shot his foot clean off.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I ask this because you seem to post "specifics", like Ukraine and the 3 million a day, while offering nothing to support your claims.

Screw the claims and links man, just type in the sentence in google and you will get the link for the news. We are not presenting a research thesis here for graduation requirements. Over time you would know who is writing the true facts and who is outright twisting the reality.

No the west of Ukraine should not break away.

Then live in chaos, crisis and civil war atmosphere and enjoy the resulting havoc and hurdles propping up every single day of the stressful life.

3 million a day is a drop in the financial bucket compared to Russia economic losses.

When half the country is shut down and not paying any taxes etc. then the hit to the GDP is massive. West Ukraine should cut the losses and find their own country to suit the way of life they choose.

a reply to: victor7

You made the claims... You need to support it with links to your sources.

The chaos will end when Russian citizens leave Ukraine. Putin has already thrown those in the South and East under the bus, which was further reinforced with his withdrawal of those non existent Russia forces on Ukraine's border.


The economy will stabilize, where the same cannot be said of Russia's. After being taken to the cleaners by China and single handedly destroying trade with the west Putin has lost, and will continue to lose, way more than he put into it.

If its the game Russia wants to play then the time would be right to support anti Putin groups in Russia. Your war comment was hilarious btw and only underscores just how out of touch pro Russians are in this area.

Putin's head has swelled so large lately that he could be mistaken for a fugitive from Easter Island. The problem with people like Putin is their inability to separate personal from political. Instead of cutting his losses he will continue to dig a hole.

Just as Hitler did.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Putin’s Shift on Ukraine Result of His Visit to Beijing, Kazan Editor Says

How would you like to be fly on the wall during those talks?

Interesting how it does look as though the bully got bullied themselves.