Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 2m
40 #Russian intelligence officers and their cultivated agents in #Ukraine have been arrested!

As expected - Russian once again gives itself away at interfering inside Ukriane-

12:51 GMT:

The Donetsk Region has defined the questions to be put on the May 11 referendum, stated regional Councilor Irina Popova. There will be just two of them:

1) Do you support the creation of an independent Donetsk Republic?

2) Of which state should a Donetsk Republic be part of: Ukraine or the Russian Federation?

The Central Election Commission of Donetsk Region has already been allocated a headquarters building next to the regional government administration and is currently forming the list of members.

As I stated before, Russia is speeding up the unrest. The same style question used in Crimea. If Russia cannot gain a foothold in that region before May elections, then they will have to invade. The only way to get that question added to the voting forms is for Kiev to approve the language, since they are responsible for the elections. If Russia cant get a hold, they won't be able to manipulate the results.


Secondly I have noticed Pro Russians in the forums refusing to comment on the armed coups in the cities in those regions. Why is it ok for Pro Russian / Russian forces to overthrow the elected city / regional governments in those areas, who were in fact voted into office by the residents of those areas? Secondly I notice they are once again violating the Ukraine constitution. Referendum on territorial integrity is a nation wide referendum, not just one region.

Secondly, why is the referendum question worded in a manner that it completely leaves out the possibility of staying with Ukraine? After all, not all residents in those areas are Pro Russian? Or do those people not matter?

12:00 GMT:



Self-defense forces in Slavyansk say there’s fighting going on between their people and unknown gunmen at one of the checkpoints.

“Unknown gunmen have arrived at one of the check-points from the side of the livestock feed factory, at the turn-off Izyum. They opened fire on peaceful observers at the checkpoint. A group of self-defense personnel have arrived to help the observers. Fighting is going on,” the self-defense forces’ coordinator told Interfax.

Yahoo News ‏@YahooNews · 9m
Near Ukraine, a breakaway region of Moldova wants Russia, EU to recognize its independence yhoo.it...

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 5m
500 #Ukrainian military w/ vehicles are blocked by 1,500 insurgents near #Kramatrosk & don’t have a command to shoot www.svoboda.org... …

English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 14m
40 #Russian intelligence officers and their cultivated agents in #Ukraine have been arrested!

elysiumfire
dragonridr:

See Russia got the west involved the minute he invaded Crimea Ukraine...

Even you don't believe that. The West got itself involved with Russia way before the Crimea. It became abrasive towards Putin during Syria, and even more so at his plans to detach the rouble from the petrodollar. Putin is leading the way as a financial example for other countries to eventually follow suit, and they will.

Once again, I claim that the West does not give a hoot about the Ukraine or the people there...Putin is the West's and America's target. As far as the West is concerned, the Ukraine is just an expendable region to help fortify the West's undermining of Putin's plans. You would see things a lot more clearly if you stopped pandering to the Western lie. Don't take sides.

See if you mean by the west the United States no Ukraine isnt important our press barely covers it now.however the EU it was very important they wanted Ukraine to join the EU mostly because they are looking for resources like every other major power. Only a truly paranoid individual would think this is abot Russia it never was now is it now. Russia made it about them they minute they decided international borders is fiction and decided they could take there troops into another country.Than take that part of said country and make it theirs. See this is called stealing same as if someone came to your front door put a gun to your face and walked off with your TV. Using force doesnt give you the right to take others property. Now to save time dont try to say the people voted i refer you to the UN report which said the vote was a scam. See no matter how you play this your defending the right of a country to use military to take over a weaker country.

And we have another "election" in Donatesk -

euronews ‏@euronews · 16m
Donetsk mayor's office seized by gunmen eurone.ws...

There was no resistance as gunmen walked into the mayor’s office in the city of Donetsk on Wednesday.

Staff remained at their desks and carried on working at the latest administrative building to fall to the control of activists. They already hold the regional government offices taken 10 days earlier.

Around three dozen men carrying assault and hunting rifles took over the building an official confirmed. He added that barricades were being erected outside though people were allowed to move freely.

“Our main demand is to send a message to Ukraine’s parliament demanding it pass a law about local referendums. The second is for the local council to organise a referendum on self-determination on May 11,” explained Oleksandr Zakharchenko, head of the Oplot Unit which took control of the mayor’s office.

In the eastern city of Kramatorsk it is claimed several armoured personnel carriers were blocked by civilians and some soldiers abandoned their vehicles.

Ukraine’s defence ministry has said six APCs were seized from the army by pro-Russia separatists.

They are the vehicles which subsequently rolled into the rebel-held town of Slavyansk the ministry confirmed.

The setbacks in the east of the country leave Kyiv looking impotent before a peace conference in Geneva on Thursday.

At that gathering its foreign minister is due to meet his Russian counterpart for the first time since Moscow-backed President Viktor Yanukovich was toppled in February after deadly protests.

Once again, armed coup, demands that completely ignore those who don't wish to be Russian / support Russia.

Xcathdra

12:00 GMT:



Self-defense forces in Slavyansk say there’s fighting going on between their people and unknown gunmen at one of the checkpoints.

“Unknown gunmen have arrived at one of the check-points from the side of the livestock feed factory, at the turn-off Izyum. They opened fire on peaceful observers at the checkpoint. A group of self-defense personnel have arrived to help the observers. Fighting is going on,” the self-defense forces’ coordinator told Interfax.

Yahoo News ‏@YahooNews · 9m
Near Ukraine, a breakaway region of Moldova wants Russia, EU to recognize its independence yhoo.it...

edit on 16-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 5m
500 #Ukrainian military w/ vehicles are blocked by 1,500 insurgents near #Kramatrosk & don’t have a command to shoot www.svoboda.org... …

edit on 16-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 14m
40 #Russian intelligence officers and their cultivated agents in #Ukraine have been arrested!

edit on 16-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

You know whats going to be funny youwill have areas inside Russia who once again will want there independece from Russia and once again Putin will use force and blow up women and children. All the while claiming Ukrainians have this same right he really is a hypocrite isnt he?

reply to post by dragonridr


Putin has to involve NATO / EU / West because without those groups, he would not be able to do what he wanted. I will wager at some point in the near future you will see the election laws in Russia change, benefiting Putin.

Without being able to focus the Russian people on the West, they would see what he is really doing in Russia. We know that at least 10k Russians who protested against Moscow lies a few day ago have woken up and are calling Putin out.

If Putin were sincere, he would not keep blocking media outlets that are not pro Putin.

All I can say is WOW, I don't know if I should laugh at their hypocrisy or be worried, since everything seems to be planned very carefully.

Russia's Foreign Ministry Says US Driving Ukraine Toward War 2014-04-16 17:25:55 Russia has been carefully constructing a case for intervening in Ukraine. This could be the final statement that we've been waiting for, however, the final line of thinking that could be used by the Kremlin to justify, in their own minds at least, unilateral intervention in Ukraine -- just like in Crimea:

RT ✔ @RT_com Follow BREAKING: US rhetoric supports Kiev's war against own people - Russian Foreign Ministry on.rt.com...

Jason Corcoran @jason_corcoran Follow Russia's Foreign Ministry says the implications of Washington's support for Kiev authorities will be ``catastrophic'' in statement

pressimus.com...

reply to post by Xcathdra

Why is it ok for Pro Russian / Russian forces to overthrow the elected city / regional governments in those areas, who were in fact voted into office by the residents of those areas?

It's not ok as it wasn't ok for Nazis to violently seize power in Kiev.

Referendum on territorial integrity is a nation wide referendum, not just one region.

Agreed.
Where was the referendum in Serbia when Kosovo declared independence?

Secondly, why is the referendum question worded in a manner that it completely leaves out the possibility of staying with Ukraine?

Read the questions again.

dragonridr
You know whats going to be funny youwill have areas inside Russia who once again will want there independece from Russia and once again Putin will use force and blow up women and children. All the while claiming Ukrainians have this same right he really is a hypocrite isnt he?

Putin already established that hypocritical stance.. In other threads on this topic I have asked why Putin allows this for Crimea / East and South Ukraine, demanding the people be allowed to determine their own future while at the same time denying and then invading Chechnya, twice, to prevent them from the same.

The Pro Russian crowds don't seem to have the stones to address the glaring hypocrisy by Putin.. They dismiss it then attack the poster, drag the thread of topic, and then flood it with crap that has nothing to do with it in hopes others don't see what they did.

ETA - as was done in the post below that I responded to. Exactly as I described in this post.

Just like the questions I have kept asking about the armed coup in Crimea, and now in the east and south regions. They don't seem to be able to answer / explain why those actions are ok.. They wont touch the questions about the "referendums" that don't allow for a choice of staying in Ukraine... Simply put, they don't care about anyone other than ethnic Russians and at some point, like we are now seeing in Crimea, they will target the "less desirables" and force them out of "Russian" land. That view is supported by Putins comment at the media event he hosted where he stated they would use civilians as shields and if they are shot by Ukraine, it would be Ukraine's fault and not the Russian forces standing behind the civilians.

They plan they are using is the exact same plan used in Nazi Germany.. The problem they seem to have is when you mimic Nazi behavior as they are doing, it becomes more difficult to see the trees when they are standing in the middle of the forest.

Research some of the issues coming out of Crimea.. The people there who supported that move are now starting to regret it.

zilebeliveunknown
It's not ok as it wasn't ok for Nazis to violently seize power in Kiev.

The constitution was used in Kiev, whether you like that fact or not. Even Russian media has demonstrated that. Secondly, you are not answering the question. If its not ok, then why aren't they stopping their action and why are you supporting their action?

zilebeliveunknown
Agreed.
Where was the referendum in Serbia when Kosovo declared independence?

This is not Serbia or Kosovo although ironically Russian was involved in those instances as well as members of KFOR.

Even the UN has stated its not a comparable event.

why are you supporting the discrimination of people who are not pro Russian in Ukraine's east and south and why are you constantly trying to use examples that don't compare to ignore answering the question / remaining on topic?

zilebeliveunknown
Read the questions again.

Independence or join Russia - The exact choices they had in Crimea. which by the way translates in join Russia or join Russia by occupation and owned leadership, where decisions for the province will be made in dark backrooms in Moscow.

So once again, why does the question leave out the ability to remain a part of Ukraine?

Finally, thank you for proving my point from my other post about how people will refuse to answer the question while trying to divert the attention by using baseless comparisons and answering questions with a question.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 28s
LATEST: “Green men” came to #Kramatorsk, Eastern #Ukraine to storm paratroopers www.ukrinform.ua... … | PR News #Russia

Ruptly ‏@Ruptly · 3m
#Donetsk mayor's office latest to be occupied youtu.be...

RIA Novosti ‏@ria_novosti · 9m
Kiev to Raise Crimea Return at Geneva Meeting – Ukrainian Official http://(link tracking not allowed)/1pauFcR

I was always curious as to why the supporters of Russian policies and actions throw around the words "fascist", "neo-nazi" and others a lot. These articles start making the picture a little clearer:

revolution-news.com...

www.leparisien.fr...

Scary prospects, even more so since my home country is involved directly.

Later edit: Although unconfirmed yet, as stated, this may show that the actual anti-semite behavior may not come from the "fascists" and "neo-nazis" that overthrew Yanukovich.

pressimus.com...

A fairly accurate analysis of the current situation, in my opinion.

www.newrepublic.com...

Russia shuts down another media outlet that does not support their propaganda -

The Black and Orange Ribbon of Putin's Army

Those ribbons made headlines for a second time following the rigged State Duma elections in 2011, which sparked a series of mass anti-Putin demonstrations in Moscow. For whatever reason, the protesters wore white ribbons as the symbol for their movement. This prompted Kremlin spin doctors to come up with the brilliant idea of using the St. George ribbons to oppose the white ribbon. They organized counter-demonstrations by bussing in thousands of state employees from all over and tying a St. George ribbon on the arm of each. Then Putin himself made an appearance wearing a St. George ribbon at one such rally on Red Square. The message was clear: bad, unpatriotic people wear white ribbons but good people wear St. George ribbons in memory of those killed in war.

The authorities also dug up the few remaining World War II veterans and paraded them before the cameras, decked out in so many St. George ribbons that they looked like wedding cakes with legs. And now, as we have seen with Ilya Ponomaryov, in order to discredit a member of the opposition, the authorities need only claim that he does not respect the Great Patriotic War. In fact, officials shut down Russia's only opposition television channel, Dozhd, on that pretext.

Click link for remainder of article...




The Moscow Times - A Subtle Similarity Between Hitler and Putin

A rather hilarious article that draws the parallels and then tries to down play them. Some of the highlights -

Banning Political Parties / Opposition -

Some superficial parallels exist, but they only underscore how little modern authoritarian leaders resemble the bloodthirsty dictators of the past. Yes, Germany passed a law in 1933 "against forming new parties" that was enforced by the monopolistic Nazi Party, and those events somewhat resemble Putin's crackdown on the opposition. But after that law was passed, Germany created Dachau, the first concentration camp for political prisoners — something inconceivable in today's Russia.

I think members of Pussy Riot would disagree.


On Gays / undesirables -

Germany also started persecuting homosexuals in 1935, but this was in the form of sending 15,000 to 20,000 of them to their deaths. In contrast, the entire "anti-gay" campaign in Russia led to nothing more than a few unlawful firings and beatings. Only someone who knows little of history can compare Hitlerjugend with Putin's Nashi movement.

Putin came to power in 2000 presumably as a democrat, and he won the presidential election that year in a largely free and fair vote. But soon Putin introduced a new ideology according to which the state was superior to the individual, and national interests were much more important than private ones. This ideology was created for domestic use, but it has broad implications for Russia's neighbors as well.

Uhm, the very reason for the Soviet Unions existence and the very reason for the Soviet unions failure and collapse.


Putin and Hitler aren't the same..... but they are -

The problem is not whether Putin is like Hitler, but how Putin's policies will eventually play out. His recent course will likely undermine the international norms and rules that existed when he came to power. Like Hitler before him, Putin has no new ideas on how to create a stable global system in place of the current one. He only wants to secure new territory as Hitler tried to guarantee a vast Lebensraum for the German people. And like Hitler, Putin appears unable — or lacking the desire — to stop advancing along his chosen path, however risky it may look.

Do as I say and not as I do - Human Rights issues

Regrettably, the international community is unwilling or unable to stop the violation of human rights in Russia today, just as it was against Germany in the 1930s. Of course, the world was not legally obligated to intervene in the domestic affairs of a sovereign state — not in Hitler's Germany and not in Putin's Russia. But Putin's attempt to undermine the foundations of the international order is fraught with more serious consequences. Far from eliciting enthusiasm for Russia's politics, such actions only engender deep anxieties. Although Putin's domestic policies seem almost innocuous when compared to Hitler's, the effects of his foreign policy could prove equally disruptive to global stability.

All "Russians" are equal.... but some are more equal than others -

When Putin argued that he annexed Crimea to protect ethnic Russians and Russian speakers — and not to defend Russian citizens — he effectively rewrote the rulebook of the second half of the 20th century that drew boundaries according to political and not ethnic affiliation. If this is allowed to continue, the consequences could be very serious.

click link for remainder of article.

So.. As Putin walks his followers to their mass graves (he has to make room for all those new followers in other countries) we have people who are defending all of his actions regardless of just how Nazi'esqu they are. The mindset demonstration we are seeing of Pro Russians is - We want to be a part of something stronger, and in choosing that, we will arm ourselves, overthrow elected officals, demand to join Russia while at the same time using their new "authority" to subdue / eliminate those who don't support them.

That mindset failed in Nazi Germany..
That mindset failed in the Soviet Union..
That mindset will fail in Russia...

As with the governments of those 3 examples, 2 have given way to history references, with the 3rd soon to join them.

the Russia people must retake their country and prevent Putin from destroying everything they have worked for.

Mr. Putin - The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I would much rather read about Russia in the history books as a nation who put aside differences and worked with the world community to better conditions for all as opposed to reading a history book about Russia and how Putin is compared to history's greats, Like Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin....

reply to post by Xcathdra

The constitution was used in Kiev, whether you like that fact or not.

I must have missed that power in Kiev has been changed in elections. So, NO, it was against the constitution. You don't seize power with guns, anywhere. Remember that.
And I'll ask you again --- Show me where Ukrainian constitution allows coup!
You're dodging this question for over a month now.

If its not ok, then why aren't they stopping their action and why are you supporting their action?

The people in eastern regions DO NOT WANT TO BE RULED BY NAZIS!
I will always be on the people's side.

This is not Serbia or Kosovo although ironically Russian was involved in those instances as well as members of KFOR.

It has everything to do with Kosovo. Kosovo was the precedent.
And this is just the start, you'll see in near future many regions in Europe will demand their independence.

Even the UN has stated its not a comparable event.

UN is a joke.
NATO bombed sovereign contry back in 1999 without UN approval.

why are you supporting the discrimination of people who are not pro Russian in Ukraine's east and south and why are you constantly trying to use examples that don't compare to ignore answering the question / remaining on topic?

I do not and will not support any discrimination of people. Every voice needs to be heard.
It's the system, with which I don't necessarily agree with in some points, where decesions of majority are to be respected.

So once again, why does the question leave out the ability to remain a part of Ukraine?

Sorry to say this, but are you blind?

1) Do you support the creation of an independent Donetsk Republic?

Those who do not want to be independant of Kiev should simply say NO.

Dutzy
I was always curious as to why the supporters of Russian policies and actions throw around the words "fascist", "neo-nazi" and others a lot. These articles start making the picture a little clearer:

revolution-news.com...

www.leparisien.fr...

Scary prospects, even more so since my home country is involved directly.

Later edit: Although unconfirmed yet, as stated, this may show that the actual anti-semite behavior may not come from the "fascists" and "neo-nazis" that overthrew Yanukovich.

pressimus.com...

edit on Wed0000003010514 by Dutzy because: (no reason given)

This i pointed out alot in this thread you can see the Nazi influence in everything Russia does. In truth im suspecting there behind the Nazi movement in Kiev because they started harassing the government as if on a timetable. There protests against Kiev started the same time the pro Russians started in the eastern area. I dont think its a coincidence though it may be that they were pushed aside and the best way to make noise was at that moment. But the key i think is all the Nazi groups inside Russia that they appear to tolerate if not support.Putin allows them to harass beat up kill gays and immigrants. They know who they are there pictures are all over the net yet Putin ignores them even though human rights watches point it out over and over. I think for him its convenient since he happens to dislike these groups as well its easy for him to look away.

But as i said Russia is so using the Nazi playbook in this game they're playing. You see it almost as if Hitler was reborn from local militias being formed and armed to the fake crises he created over Russians being persecuted.

Another video from Max Seddon showing trapped Ukrainian soldiers at Pcholkino dismantling their rifles. Adding as a personal comment the soldiers don't seem very happy, let's say as no other word comes to mind now, as one would expect from soldiers switching sides and joining protesters against a "fascist" junta.

instagram.com...#

Later edit:

There seem to have been "little green men" involved in these actions that halted and disarmed the Ukrainian troops around Kramatorsk.

via google translate:

Blocked at Kramatorska Ukrainian paratroopers arrived armed assault " green men ". It started right at dusk , reports LB.ua. On the eve of the Ukrainian soldiers came a man named Alexander Shvets, who introduced commissioner of command. He initiated the actual disarmament Ukrainian military. It was assumed that a weapon is released called " locks" , so that it becomes unusable and combat vehicles will go back to Kiev . The soldiers refused to obey his orders , saying that obey only his immediate commander . Situation on the ground is very hard , the newspaper notes .

tvi.ua...


Later edit 2: Further info supports the idea that the soldiers were told to remove the bolts from their rifles (the only I have heard of to make an AK unusable). Although no mention of "little green men", the idea is still valid.

iлля¯_(ツ)_/¯няшмяш @A3AP 15 БТР или БМД в Пчелкино сдали бойки от автоматов и уезжают обратно в Деепропетровск. Лбди хлопают каждой машине и кричат спасибо

translation via google translate:

15 APCs or BMD in Pchelkina strikers passed from machine guns and go back to Deepropetrovsk. Lbdi clap each machine and shout thanks

Dutzy
Another video from Max Seddon showing trapped Ukrainian soldiers at Pcholkino dismantling their rifles. Adding as a personal comment the soldiers don't seem very happy, let's say as no other word comes to mind now, as one would expect from soldiers switching sides and joining protesters against a "fascist" junta.

instagram.com...#

Whoever sends military against their own people needs to be hanged from lamp post. Period.
Thank God this soldiers are smart not to shoot at bare handed people.

reply to post by zilebeliveunknown


Please take into account the later edit. Thanks

Dutzy
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown

 

Please take into account the later edit. Thanks

There is no justification for anyone on power to send military on their own people.
Of all you should have known that what happend in your country when Causesku turned military against people. Shot on the spot along with his wife. End of story.