Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

SurrenderingAmerica
reply to post by dragonridr

 

“We’ve seen here that these are neither separatists nor terrorists, but ordinary local residents, with whom we are not going to go into battle,” one of the defecting soldiers said.

source

Thats for you, my warmongering friend.

Yeah see thats putin plans from the beginning get ordinary citizens to stand between his men and Ukraine. But those ordinary citizens dont speak for the majority in that area Russian speakers are still a minority.Now anyone who takes guns and takes over government buildings on the other hand is not just local residents. Well maybe where you live thats ok but in the rest of the world at that point they are terrorists by definition. Do the people have a right to express themselves sure do they have right to vote sure. Do they have a right to take weapons and confiscate property no they dont.They are using violence to bend others to there will. Sorry my war mongering friend but use of guns to force someone to give up their rights is wrong.

Nato's announcement is about reassuring worried allies in the Baltic republics and central Europe, as well as signalling to Moscow that when it comes to the alliance's core business - the defence of its members' territory - Nato is as vigilant as ever.

Air patrols over the Baltic republics are to be stepped up; Nato warships will deploy to the eastern Mediterranean and the Baltic Sea.

And on land, staff officers will be dispatched to oversee an enhanced programme of exercises and preparedness in the countries most concerned.

Nato will also review and reinforce its defence plans. In the longer term additional deployments may well be made. Nato sources indicate that this is only the first step of several that could be taken if the relationship with Russia sours further.

Jonathan Marcus BBC diplomatic correspondent

Clearly the West are fearmongering as best they can, ratcheting up the psy-ops on civilian populations everywhere. So intent are they on demonising Russia and Putin, who hasn't actually done anything outside international law, except on the say so of the West, and peddled by posters on ATS who are fiercely prejudice against Russia, that they have been calling ordinary Ukrainian citizens as Russian terrorists, Russian Special Forces, or simply Russian troops in disguise in appeal to your own possible prejudices.

All along they were ordinary citizens simply wanting a referendum and a choice to have their say in turning the Ukraine into a federation. Of course, such self-determination by ordinary citizens is anathema to the West, and totally out of the question. It is the West that wants to dictate terms to the Ukrainians of all ethnicities. It is the West that wants its puppet regime in the Ukraine.

If the West kept its big fat nose out of Ukraine's business, all those ethnicities would get along just fine. Let them determine their own future, even if it means federating to Russia.

BBC journalists witnessed civilians, at least some of whom appeared to be local people, challenging soldiers, who were also blocked by a crowd a few kilometres outside the town. One officer said he had not "come to fight" and would never obey orders to shoot his "own people".

Catacomb
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

For the first time, in a long time, I truly believe we are on the verge of World War Three. If this is indeed true, and Russia has declared war on the Ukraine, invades, and people die by the thousands....it's going to get a lot worse.

Ukraine is the new Poland. Crimea was the Sudetenland.

edit on 1-3-2014 by Catacomb because: (no reason given)

not going to happen .. just look at Syria ..time for cookies

ProfessorT
Interesting developments coming out of Ukraine this morning with the news that 6 armoured personnel carriers and their crew have either defected to Russia or are being trapped. Finally it appears Western media are running this news at the top of the hour for the first time in a while. Eastern Ukraine seems it is on the brink of imploding.

edit on 16-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

elysiumfire

Nato's announcement is about reassuring worried allies in the Baltic republics and central Europe, as well as signalling to Moscow that when it comes to the alliance's core business - the defence of its members' territory - Nato is as vigilant as ever.

Air patrols over the Baltic republics are to be stepped up; Nato warships will deploy to the eastern Mediterranean and the Baltic Sea.

And on land, staff officers will be dispatched to oversee an enhanced programme of exercises and preparedness in the countries most concerned.

Nato will also review and reinforce its defence plans. In the longer term additional deployments may well be made. Nato sources indicate that this is only the first step of several that could be taken if the relationship with Russia sours further.

Jonathan Marcus BBC diplomatic correspondent

Clearly the West are fearmongering as best they can, ratcheting up the psy-ops on civilian populations everywhere. So intent are they on demonising Russia and Putin, who hasn't actually done anything outside international law, except on the say so of the West, and peddled by posters on ATS who are fiercely prejudice against Russia, that they have been calling ordinary Ukrainian citizens as Russian terrorists, Russian Special Forces, or simply Russian troops in disguise in appeal to your own possible prejudices.

All along they were ordinary citizens simply wanting a referendum and a choice to have their say in turning the Ukraine into a federation. Of course, such self-determination by ordinary citizens is anathema to the West, and totally out of the question. It is the West that wants to dictate terms to the Ukrainians of all ethnicities. It is the West that wants its puppet regime in the Ukraine.

If the West kept its big fat nose out of Ukraine's business, all those ethnicities would get along just fine. Let them determine their own future, even if it means federating to Russia.

BBC journalists witnessed civilians, at least some of whom appeared to be local people, challenging soldiers, who were also blocked by a crowd a few kilometres outside the town. One officer said he had not "come to fight" and would never obey orders to shoot his "own people".

See Russia got the west involved the minute he invaded Crimea Ukraine wasnt even a blip on the radar screen. Only after Russia pulled out their military and wanted to play world domination did this become an issue. Tell putin to put his toys back in the box and go home.Tell them to pull out their troops of eastern Ukraine Tell them to stop using propaganda to scare Russian speaking Ukrainians into thinking Kiev is trying to kill them all. Stop undermining the government of kiev and sit down and talk with them. So yeah i agree Russia needs to keep there nose out of Ukraine where it has no business being and let them handle it. Wow im really glad you brought this up.

cosmonova
If that is the case they would keep it quiet until the action starts or being completed not declaring it publicly now.
Just more cheap propaganda.

But possibly very effective and imo damn near brilliant.

Ukraine just possibly muddied the waters for Russian action. By making this statement, it forces Pro Russian / Russia to start thinking about any unit that "defects". Are the "defections" valid or is it nothing more than the creation of a "5th column" inside the pro Russian / Russian lines?

Either way it will force the pro Russian / Russian forces to divert more attention into determining is the units can in fact be trusted. Its possible this could really affect C&C on the separatist side. The more paranoid they become, the more brazen the move to ensure they are not being infiltrated. The harsher the methods the more of a putoff.

Xcathdra:

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

None, zilch, nada....etc,

www.bbc.co.uk...

Nice try at casting doubt though, muddying of the waters also makes it hard for you to see, too. Just remember that.

Xcathdra

ProfessorT
Interesting developments coming out of Ukraine this morning with the news that 6 armoured personnel carriers and their crew have either defected to Russia or are being trapped. Finally it appears Western media are running this news at the top of the hour for the first time in a while. Eastern Ukraine seems it is on the brink of imploding.

edit on 16-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

Well i did see earlier in an interview where the guy said he came from Crimea to help so yeah its possible.

elysiumfire
Xcathdra:

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

None, zilch, nada....etc,

www.bbc.co.uk...

Nice try at casting doubt though, muddying of the waters also makes it hard for you to see, too. Just remember that.

What are you talking about ok a picture of a lone tank is not showing a captured group. See often times pictures dont match stories happens alot like when RT claims people were streaming into Russia for protection and show the polish border.

dragonridr:

See Russia got the west involved the minute he invaded Crimea Ukraine...

Even you don't believe that. The West got itself involved with Russia way before the Crimea. It became abrasive towards Putin during Syria, and even more so at his plans to detach the rouble from the petrodollar. Putin is leading the way as a financial example for other countries to eventually follow suit, and they will.

Once again, I claim that the West does not give a hoot about the Ukraine or the people there...Putin is the West's and America's target. As far as the West is concerned, the Ukraine is just an expendable region to help fortify the West's undermining of Putin's plans. You would see things a lot more clearly if you stopped pandering to the Western lie. Don't take sides.

dragonridr
See Russia got the west involved the minute he invaded Crimea Ukraine wasn't even a blip on the radar screen.

The West (NATO & EU) and Russia have been involved in the Ukraine since, well, in regards to Europe and Russia...since the advent of written history. The US has been involved since post WW2.

reply to post by maddy21


I was under the impression Russian has had nothing to do with what's going on in Ukraine. Why would they benefit if they aren't involved?

• The hastily expanded Ukrainian military presence in the east, billed by Kiev as an "anti-terrorist operation," produced multiple standoffs with locals and opposition forces, but there have been no reports of casualties or of shots fired Wednesday.
• In multiple cases, Ukrainian troops appear to have surrendered to unarmed locals. “What were we supposed to do? Shoot peaceful protestors?” one soldier told the Guardian.

www.theguardian.com...

Its understandable they didn't want to open fire on their own nationals, despite their allegiances

Seek_Truth

zilebeliveunknown
It appears that now we have more regions that want to secede from Ukraine. This time it's Polish minority.

Ukrainian Poles Demanding Autonomy

This appeal to Poles Kiev Zhitomir announced the following:

- to conduct a referendum in the Zhytomyr region to establish the Polish autonomy with enhanced self-governance rights. Polish language along with Ukrainian have to get the public;
- the return of all rights and powers of the Roman Catholic Church, which she possessed in the territory until 1939;
- return broadcast regional television programs in Polish, which was abolished in 2009;
- Polish street names back in Zhitomir and provincial cities;
- open secondary schools and primary children's educational establishments with the Polish language, and at the University of

Zhytomyr recreate Polish Studies Department with the aim of training the Polish language and literature.
According Sidor Kyzina: "Poles zhitomiroschiny recent decades have experienced difficult times, experiencing persecution and deprivation of the Ukrainian authorities.
Now they have a chance to revive their statehood within autonomy, which will make a step forward to unite Ukrainian Poles with their historical homeland."

Source

Interesting. Wonder if the Poles will help a referendum.

Considering the source - doubtful

dragonridr

Xcathdra

ProfessorT
Interesting developments coming out of Ukraine this morning with the news that 6 armoured personnel carriers and their crew have either defected to Russia or are being trapped. Finally it appears Western media are running this news at the top of the hour for the first time in a while. Eastern Ukraine seems it is on the brink of imploding.

edit on 16-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

Well i did see earlier in an interview where the guy said he came from Crimea to help so yeah its possible.

You're naive to think (lol) those APCs are captured in Crimea, obviously you can see that they're made of plastic

dragonridr:

...a picture of a lone tank is not showing a captured group.

It's not a tank, it's an armoured carrier. However, the picture itself is not the report, the words are. You're just another contrarian writing utter nonsense, trying to muddy the waters, but all the time negating you're own stance. I'm sorry, but you're no longer worthy of my attention, or anybody's to be sure.

elysiumfire
Xcathdra:

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

None, zilch, nada....etc,

www.bbc.co.uk...

Nice try at casting doubt though, muddying of the waters also makes it hard for you to see, too. Just remember that.

nice try at portraying a post as something its not. Had you understood the post you would have realized the part that states "What are the possibilities"...

I don't mind you answering but how about you accuse me of something I did not do. That game you and others play is getting old and drags the thread off topic.

But since you are so secure in your answer, explain what evidence supports your definitive position.

dragonridr

Xcathdra

ProfessorT
Interesting developments coming out of Ukraine this morning with the news that 6 armoured personnel carriers and their crew have either defected to Russia or are being trapped. Finally it appears Western media are running this news at the top of the hour for the first time in a while. Eastern Ukraine seems it is on the brink of imploding.

edit on 16-4-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

What are the possibilities that what we are seeing are the captured military assets from Crimea being used by Pro Russian forces?

Well i did see earlier in an interview where the guy said he came from Crimea to help so yeah its possible.

While some people in the thread try to state Russia has returned equipment to Ukraine, what they fail to note is the better equipment was not returned, but kept. Russia also halted sending those items back a few weeks ago.

elysiumfire
dragonridr:

See Russia got the west involved the minute he invaded Crimea Ukraine...

Even you don't believe that. The West got itself involved with Russia way before the Crimea. It became abrasive towards Putin during Syria, and even more so at his plans to detach the rouble from the petrodollar. Putin is leading the way as a financial example for other countries to eventually follow suit, and they will.

Once again, I claim that the West does not give a hoot about the Ukraine or the people there...Putin is the West's and America's target. As far as the West is concerned, the Ukraine is just an expendable region to help fortify the West's undermining of Putin's plans. You would see things a lot more clearly if you stopped pandering to the Western lie. Don't take sides.

Then why did Putin lie to justify his invasion of Ukraine?

elysiumfire
dragonridr:

...a picture of a lone tank is not showing a captured group.

It's not a tank, it's an armoured carrier. However, the picture itself is not the report, the words are. You're just another contrarian writing utter nonsense, trying to muddy the waters, but all the time negating you're own stance. I'm sorry, but you're no longer worthy of my attention, or anybody's to be sure.

look behind the armored carrier.