Proof that Jesus existed.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
For people who truly want to know, here's a start.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also keep in mind there are archaelologists, and historical scholars, that make a living studying this stuff. If there was nothing to the bible, it would have been debunked, long ago. It would seem the more they uncover, the more they discover it to be true. They have access to information that you do not have. They are far more intelligent and have spent more time in schools than you did. For the same reason people who do not understand science shouldn't be debating it is the same reason that people who don't understand ancient history should not talk ignorantly of things they do not understand.

edit on 11/22/2010 by The Endtime Warrior because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/22/2010 by The Endtime Warrior because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/22/2010 by The Endtime Warrior because: (no reason given)

I wanted to quote this post because I really liked it and it is objective. I am not even a Christian/Buddhist/Muslim/etc and I believe Jesus existed. He was not the same exact Jesus as found in the bible. People don't have a clear understanding between bible Jesus and real Jesus.

reply to post by fordrew


Yes this is what a lot of people do not understand. Most definitely, Jesus existed. Even Richard Dawkins professes that Jesus existed. So there are a lot of scholars and scientists both religious and non-religious believe he existed. The question, and most controversial, is if he was indeed "The Son of God". That is what people should be debating, not whether the man existed, because most definitely, he did.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


How about you prove "you" exist!
You can't, short of showing up on my door step.

reply to post by FermiFlux


I think the earliest Gospel accounts were about 30 years later, not that long. They were also written as apocrypha and were not intended to be read as purely historical documents. No doubt the person of Jesus was mythologized to a degree, but it still begs the question of why was he considered worthy of such status. And if even only a portion of his sayings are authentic, then it still speaks volumes. Also, Paul's letters, why are those considered to be historically authentic, but not the historical person of Jesus? It's important to remember that Paul, although not a desciple of Jesus himself was nevertheless a contemporary of Peter, who was. I don't get this Jesus never existed tripe, no doubt some people still want to be rid of him if at all possible.. which imho, sais more about us, and as apect of our nature, than about the person of Jesus.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Dear brother, if you want proofs that Jesus exist, then it is your personal quest. That's is between you and Jesus and is totally personal. Nobody can help you with that. Since it is mostly an spiritual search more than archeological, you won't be able to solve your problem thru any material evidence found.

To start your search, you will need to understand some points we Christians believe :

1.- Jesus is not dead, He is alive and He has the same body (enhanced) today. So, there is no tomb.

2.- Everybody has the chance to meet him, soon or later.

3.- He will come back.

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
reply to post by fordrew

 

Yes this is what a lot of people do not understand. Most definitely, Jesus existed. Even Richard Dawkins professes that Jesus existed. So there are a lot of scholars and scientists both religious and non-religious believe he existed. The question, and most controversial, is if he was indeed "The Son of God". That is what people should be debating, not whether the man existed, because most definitely, he did.

You have proven nothing. So many words with nothing of real value. "most definitely, he did." is not proof.

"Even Richard Dawkins professes that Jesus existed." - Just because he says this? Where is the proof. Straight out your word is not good enough here.

""The Son of God". That is what people should be debating" - You have been beaten in the argument & you are trying to change the gist of the argument. Where is your proof!

reply to post by Trueman

Nobody can help you with that.

That is the whole point. It can't be proven!. People defend the argument with different excuses like you just did because they cannot substantiate what they claim. It is your right to believe whatever you want but you look mighty stupid coming into the thread trying to convince. The best advice I can give you is get some medical help to get you de-programmed. And yes that advice was sincere because as you have your genuine beliefs I have mine. That is anyone caught under the spell of religion needs help!

Cheers

The bible is collection of other peoples written works
It isn't that the bible is true
it's that some documents that contain provable things are included in it.

Like it mentions Jerusalem exists so the bible mut be true
yeah, well 1st Man in the Moon by HG Wells mentions the planet earth which we know exists so it must be true too...
follow me?

As if the god that created the hole universe can't even prove he exists.....ummmmm

reply to post by Trueman


If I might I would like to add to that.

Jesus lives deep within the human person, at least in potentia, and is the very best part of who we REALLY are, at core.

Jesus is not some "bearded man in the sky" but a transformative principal and reality of the spirit of the living God.

The "job" of the Christian believer then is to simply believe and recieve, and in so doing, become a new creation.

We do not worship something that is external to us, is the point I wanted to make, although some Christians might call me a blasphemer for saying as much!

reply to post by Trueman


I can tell you one thing I've learned on ATS:

Any post beginning with "Dear Brother" should be immediately ignored.



And I don't mean in any way that we aren't brothers and sisters. I just have come to understand that anyone using these terms within such a context is about to espouse something sanctimonious, as though they have some higher understanding of things they couldn't possibly KNOW for certain - despite their claim within the next few lines that they do.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
I was of the understanding that the bible wasnt written until at least 70 years after the death of the so called Jesus.
Why did it take so long to write a book about this guy if he was infact the son of god???
Because by then all of Jesus;s friends and family were dead so the lie could begin.

These people saying they respect both the new and old testament are full of rubbish to be honest....if they truely believed these books were written by the hand of god.....then they would be stoning their children for being naughty.
You either believe EVERYTHING in both or nothing at all...you cant pick the good bits and discard the evil teachings.

Religion is one big scam thats been running since the begining of time to enslave and control the people of the land.
There are 1000's of gods....the romans had 100's....for everything you could imagine because they couldnt understand something they claimed it must be a god....god of war...god of fire etc.

I personally dont think religion should be tolerated in the 21st century.
If religion had been abolished 500 years ago im pretty sure we would be a more advanced loving civilization.
We would probably all be flying around the universe exploring...but oooooooh no religion has to hold back humanity every step of the way.

I'm sorry but I had to laugh at your ignorance. If religion was abolished we would find something else to fight about. Than we would be here claiming that if so and so was abolished this would be a perfect world.

The fact is that it isn't a perfect world and absence of religion would contribute the same thing as religion. In example, Stalin didn't believe in any religion and he killed many people. So now we come to communism and how without religion I could argue that the world would be run as a communist regime.

Let's go a step further and abolish all power and money. Because in the end that is what it comes down to. Power and money is what drive people to conquer, not religion.

watch this series...maybe it will answer your questions

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Danbones


The creation of the universe and the world, is a triumph of persuasion over force.

Your statement about God being unable to prove He exists, is absurd.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Danbones

 

The creation of the universe and the world, is a triumph of persuasion over force.

Your statement about God being unable to prove He exists, is absurd.

How is this absurd? Danbones makes a good point. You need to back up what you say with proof. Read the thread title "Proof" statements like yours try to avoid the question and weasel your way out of it without answering. hard but its the truth. Again Where's your proof?

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by NonKonphormist

 

Isn't the proof of Jesus existing as good as any other historical figure having existed? There are NO eyewitness reports on ANYTHING dating back more then a hundred years. I can guess where this thread is going but unless you've SEEN Adolf Hitler, what can make you believe the man is real? Historical written works are the only way to go for our current generation.
What happens is that humans tend to accept whatever seems plausible and reject anything that seems farfetched or doesn't fit into their view of reality.

NOBODY can convince you that Jesus exists. You've already made up your mind on that. Just like you've already accepted that Adolf Hitler DID exist.

Weren't there videos of Adolf? Yes, there were.

Any writings that Jesus wrote, himself? Nope... not that I know of.

The possibilities are endless of what the any religion believes and where it all came from, and who was real and who wasn't.

I believe in something, I also believe I'm lost when it comes to my "religious views". Why choose one messiah? There are so many religions, and so many messiah's.

"Like the bee gathering honey from the different flowers, the wise person accepts the essence of the different scriptures and sees only the good in all religions." - Mohandas K. Gandhi

The first historical account of Jesus outside of what is promoted by biblical scholars, was written by Titus Josephus Flavius, but I would be hesitant to believe Josephus.

He was a Jewish historian who was Romanized and then given a pension that was quite nice in order for him to write his "historical accounts". He was notorious for being an initiate into the mystery schools so I would suspect that it would be in his best interest to tow the party line so to speak.

None of the testaments were written at the time of Jesus.
So they, by default I suppose, were oral traditions passed down until written and then deemed "official" at the 1st Council at Nicaea.

Most Christians will tell you that faith is enough, but if you look at the link in my signature then you will find a most interesting story of this Jesus Character my friend.

All Roads Lead to Rome

-Josephus

It isnt a matter of weather Jesus was a real man, he was a real man, the question is weather he had magical powers or not.

Personally i believe he was a common "everyday normal guy" but he may have had good morals, and the only way anyone would listen to what he had to say was to pretend he was a magical god like figure.

Think about it if jesus was a everyday normal guy, with no powers. nobody would listen to anything he had to say, they only listened because they believed he was the son of god, and claimed to have powers.

So a uncommoningly intellgent man, using the stupidity of peoples belifes to bring moral values to socitey. it really isnt that hard of a concept, unless you were as intellgent as the people believeing the story back in the day.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Jesus did in facte xist and even the Jews won't deny his existance however keep in mind Jesus was born Jewish, lived as a Jew and died as a Jew; he was NOT a Christian in any shape or form but probably a more realistic description of Jesus would be that of the very first Reform Rabbi (although the Reform Jews would'nt agree). Christianity came in to existance long after the death of Jesus, of whom very little was actually written of him. Christianity was given birth in Rome, not Israel. Much of how the Christians portray Jesus is felocy and made up stories of nonsence to please the masses; the New Testament came at a time when there was total disaray in Italy and neighboring countries. Jesus never once deemed himself the son of God nor King of the Jews. To even believe his mother Mariam as the virgin mother = condoning rape which goes totally against the 10 Commandments of God in Torah. To believe Jesus died for our sins = condoning the sacrifice of another human being and that too goes against the 10 Commandments of God in Torah.

The Torah was not given to the Jewish people at the foot of the mountain of Mount Sinai because the word "Jewish" or "Jew" did'nt even exist in those days. If the story of the Exodus out of Egypt was true then mark my words those that went with Moses were not all Hebrews but decendants & their families of the Hebrew tribes as well as other slaves and out-casts that joined them. When the Pharaoh gave the slaves their freedom, the slaves STOLE alot of gold & other treasures off their masters before bolting like common criminals that many of them were hence why the Pharaoh took chase and went after them.

The Torah is not only for the "Jews" but also Gentile alike. For any Rabbi to state Torah is only for the Jews is complete felocy and the Jews have all been conned just as the Romans conned the "Christians".

reply to post by Anthony1138


It sure does matter. Look at the title of thread. Don't try to change the Gist of the debate. Again I ask where is your proof to back up your belief. Again another attempt to avoid the real subject of the thread!. It's not a hypothetical on what you believe. It's looking for from he existed!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


To my knowledge it was more like 80 years after the crucifiction, not 30 years.