Proof that Jesus existed.

After countless threads being hijacks by Christians, I have decide to start a thread asking for proof that Jesus actually existed.
I don't need any leaps of faith, just facts, the same as with any thread on ATS.
For example, no one would get away with saying that UFO's exist because they have faith that they do, we all scream for evidence.
So, I would like to hear some of the real historical evidence on the existance of Jesus, then maybe we can either end the hijacking of threads, or all be able to convert to the one real religion.

If this has been done before, sorry.

Looking forward to the reply's.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Isn't the proof of Jesus existing as good as any other historical figure having existed? There are NO eyewitness reports on ANYTHING dating back more then a hundred years. I can guess where this thread is going but unless you've SEEN Adolf Hitler, what can make you believe the man is real? Historical written works are the only way to go for our current generation.
What happens is that humans tend to accept whatever seems plausible and reject anything that seems farfetched or doesn't fit into their view of reality.

NOBODY can convince you that Jesus exists. You've already made up your mind on that. Just like you've already accepted that Adolf Hitler DID exist.

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by NonKonphormist

 

Isn't the proof of Jesus existing as good as any other historical figure having existed? There are NO eyewitness reports on ANYTHING dating back more then a hundred years. I can guess where this thread is going but unless you've SEEN Adolf Hitler, what can make you believe the man is real? Historical written works are the only way to go for our current generation.
What happens is that humans tend to accept whatever seems plausible and reject anything that seems farfetched or doesn't fit into their view of reality.

NOBODY can convince you that Jesus exists. You've already made up your mind on that. Just like you've already accepted that Adolf Hitler DID exist.

Well we've actually got pics and videos of Hitler

But works on Hitler were not written long after he died, unlike Jesus.

Originally posted by NonKonphormist
After countless threads being hijacks by Christians, I have decide to start a thread asking for proof that Jesus actually existed.
I don't need any leaps of faith, just facts, the same as with any thread on ATS.
For example, no one would get away with saying that UFO's exist because they have faith that they do, we all scream for evidence.
So, I would like to hear some of the real historical evidence on the existance of Jesus, then maybe we can either end the hijacking of threads, or all be able to convert to the one real religion.

If this has been done before, sorry.

Looking forward to the reply's.

Are you a Christian? If not, why are you asking for proof if you don't
believe anyway? If you are, some might say you are a doubting Thomas.
Do you speak for everyone because when you say then "all be able to
convert to one real religion"? Sounds like you just want to stir up trouble
to me. Read the Bible, both Old and New Testaments I have not read all
of either however that what I have read I do have enough faith for both.
They teach parallels and parables as do other culture's Holy books so man
can learn many things.

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by NonKonphormist

 

Isn't the proof of Jesus existing as good as any other historical figure having existed? There are NO eyewitness reports on ANYTHING dating back more then a hundred years. I can guess where this thread is going but unless you've SEEN Adolf Hitler, what can make you believe the man is real? Historical written works are the only way to go for our current generation.
What happens is that humans tend to accept whatever seems plausible and reject anything that seems farfetched or doesn't fit into their view of reality.

NOBODY can convince you that Jesus exists. You've already made up your mind on that. Just like you've already accepted that Adolf Hitler DID exist.

When your right, your right. As i have stated in the past... you will only know what your eyes have seen and what you have heard from others or read from books you didn't help write yourself. Maybe Jesus was real, Maybe Jesus was a puppet to run God 2.0. Who knows?

reply to post by drkid


Went to christian private school,...had to put to memory every chapter when i was young.
didn't help i am in awe and wonder of Mary and Thomas and the other Nostics who followed.
Watch Pen and Teller's bible bull#.
"One way to make more athiest,...is by reading the goddamn bible."

reply to post by faceoff85


If just being written about makes one real, then I guess you believe in dragons, griffins, centaurs, mermaids, kracken, etc. ?

Or does physical evidence not enter into the picture? Just faith?

Originally posted by human32826
reply to post by drkid

 

Went to christian private school,...had to put to memory every chapter when i was young.
didn't help i am in awe and wonder of Mary and Thomas and the other Nostics who followed.
Watch Pen and Teller's bible bull#.
"One way to make more athiest,...is by reading the goddamn bible."

Not believing Jesus was real has nothing to do with being an Atheist. For example, to me, all religions are debatable. Why? Because there are way too many of them and they are just forms of different cultures expressing their GOD's origin. In the long run, i believe in a great designer that equals GOD. The same GOD many believe in.

Jesus could have been real, I have no drive to debate this one, however... what we know now must have come from somewhere. The Crusades. =D

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Concerning the Bible, I would try to find the most accurate translation of the earliest Gospels. Then cross reference with the few secular historical references available, those that are considered reliable. Other than doing that it comes down to faith, which is what you are trying to avoid. I think you should have offered some research of your own or possible sources of verification for the existence of Jesus. Personally, it is my opinion that throwing the question out there for others to answer is rather lazy and by taking someone's word about it is about the same as having faith with out real proof.

Originally posted by NonKonphormist After countless threads being hijacks by Christians, I have decide to start a thread asking for proof that Jesus actually existed.

After considering this question for quite some time, I have finally concluded that it really doesn't make any difference if Jesus existed or not.

Why?

Because hundreds of millions of Christians, claiming to be his followers, act AS IF he NEVER existed at all.

Just TRY telling one of these Christians that Jesus taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' and that John the Baptist was Elijah 'raised from the dead'.

And you will be accused of being a "heretic", a 'Gnostic', or 'possessed by demons" (as the revelation of the memories of previous lives was referred to in the Easter edition of the Vatican newspaper in 1990, as I recall); despite the fact that this is the specific reason that he was hated by both the Sadducees and the Pharisees and was turned over to the Romans to be crucified.

It really makes no difference whether Jesus existed, because hundreds of millions of Christians are following the doctrines of the apostle Paul AS IF Paul taught the same Doctrines that Jesus taught.

In other words, both the Teaching of Jesus and the purpose of his life have been completely denied by the Christians in the first place.

So, saying that he never existed at all is, comparatively, a mere triviality.

Mi cha el

the original poster asked for the same tenants to be applied to to your faith, as is applied to the faith of ufo believers.

threads get derailed by people with faith. there is nothing wrong with faith and believing.
but the same rules must apply to all our evidence.

IF the only evidence acceptable for people to accept ufos as real, is one landing, then no one should expect anyone to believe in jesus (nor she we accept his existence) until he comes back and raptures you all.

i think this is a fair argument. we either let all conversation die because there is no proof, or we all stop being so harsh on each other, and just accept some people believe crazy things.

i believe crazy things, im sure every one of you believe in something that someone else thinks is crazy!

I believe the Romano-Jewish historian Titus Flavius Josephus (born year 37-38, died about year 100)
mentions Jesus Christ.
That is pretty close in time to the actual events

I was of the understanding that the bible wasnt written until at least 70 years after the death of the so called Jesus.
Why did it take so long to write a book about this guy if he was infact the son of god???
Because by then all of Jesus;s friends and family were dead so the lie could begin.

These people saying they respect both the new and old testament are full of rubbish to be honest....if they truely believed these books were written by the hand of god.....then they would be stoning their children for being naughty.
You either believe EVERYTHING in both or nothing at all...you cant pick the good bits and discard the evil teachings.

Religion is one big scam thats been running since the begining of time to enslave and control the people of the land.
There are 1000's of gods....the romans had 100's....for everything you could imagine because they couldnt understand something they claimed it must be a god....god of war...god of fire etc.

I personally dont think religion should be tolerated in the 21st century.
If religion had been abolished 500 years ago im pretty sure we would be a more advanced loving civilization.
We would probably all be flying around the universe exploring...but oooooooh no religion has to hold back humanity every step of the way.

Originally posted by okamitengu
the original poster asked for the same tenants to be applied to to your faith, as is applied to the faith of ufo believers.

threads get derailed by people with faith. there is nothing wrong with faith and believing.
but the same rules must apply to all our evidence.

IF the only evidence acceptable for people to accept ufos as real, is one landing, then no one should expect anyone to believe in jesus (nor she we accept his existence) until he comes back and raptures you all.

i think this is a fair argument. we either let all conversation die because there is no proof, or we all stop being so harsh on each other, and just accept some people believe crazy things.

i believe crazy things, im sure every one of you believe in something that someone else thinks is crazy!

The difference between Jesus and UFO's is that there are actual pictures of UFO's designed by Hitler's scientist's. Also, if people choose not to believe in UFO's that's just straight up ignorance. People still debate weather Jesus was black, white... you name it. One of the things that bundles my mind is how hardcore Christians believe that no one can come to be as perfect as Jesus. How would they know if Jesus didn't sin? How would they know if I am Jesus myself? Would i be crucified if i made the claim? I think so. What do you guys think?

reply to post by Opensourcerer


Yes but his writings were corrupted and added to by later christians.
look up Apalonius of Tianus also a Mesiah.

www.infidels.org...

Roman historian and politico, Tacitus, about 50 AD wrote about Christ and Pontius Pilate's crucifiction of Jesus. He was known as an accurate historian and an honest and factual writer. Faith should not be sought out on a conspiracy site but within your heart. There are far more atheists and anti Christians on this site than in the general knowledgeable population. Spend time reading the New Testament and decide for yourself what you feel to be true or discuss it with friends. You will probably be bombarded by what many feel is a waste of time. If Christ brings peace to your heart, it matters not what others say or write. Many will bring out the thousands of years of the bad things done in the name of Christianity but will not give equal time to all of the great things done as well. Humans are not perfect and it is they that distort the message of Christ for their own power. The message os Christ is what is important. All of the reat is distortion by men.

License, registration and proof of insurance please.

reply to post by human32826


sorry that's Apollonius of Tyana

reply to post by NonKonphormist

hi reasonable question i thought, i have read 10 posts and not one with an answer to your question,just proverbs and questions about your beliefs.. i will continue reading and rely on the comedy answers of george carlin and bill hicks for now...

Im not going to spend time finding sources because I really dont feel that this topic should warrant any responce anyways. But, for the sake of not having much to do atm, Id like to throw in a few things..

1) Even Jews believe that Jesus existed.. They (non christan jews) believed that he just wasnt the messiah. This may not apply to all Jews, but there have been mentions of this before.

2) There are documents mentioning him, even his description around that time frame. Dont ask for photos unless you plan on giving me a time machine so I can snap a few for ya.

3) Sure, most of the books of the NEW TESTAMENT may have been put together 70-100 years later, but many of those were put together from earlier documents. I might mention that since there wasnt a whole lot of educated people back when, alot was also bound oraly untill they were transcribed. Just because this isnt exactly a proper way of documenting something today still doesnt mean it's not real and effective. But sure, anything can be watered down and added/taken away.

4) Would it really matter if I had proof? People would just say that he was someone else anyways, or a million other possible denials. Honestly, it makes no diffrence if the message is what is important.

5) As one poster mentioned, many christians dont follow what they claim to read from every day anyways. Guess that means we have alot of hipocrits out there. That pretty much sums every single one of us up, one way or the other. No one is perfect.

6) Perfection can be achieved. Last I read in the old testament, GOD stated that we all have the potentual to become gods/godlike. It just so happened that Jesus, according to what the bible says, did believe in what he was saying.

*) Why would you bash anothers beliefs anyways? Why question something that someone else believes?

What I find funny about this is... Athiests want the right to be athiest without christians bible bashing them. Yet, some people of faith like myself, would really enjoy it if athiests would stop doing the same. My best friend is an athiest and even though we kid each other about our beliefs or lack there of, neither of us try to take away from the other what we believe. At worst, our arguments are at very least constructive to one another and each of us are always seeking truth, yet it just so happens that we seek it in a diffrent manner. Does it make either of us more right than the other? Well, if I believe what is written in 2 ages of history in what I call my bible, then no... It does not make either of us above the other... and Naturaly he feels the same, and he doesnt even go by scripture. We're both "seeing is believing" kinda people, I simply have a diffrent way of seeing things than he does. Sight can also be a personal perspective in a relative way. You believe what you believe and only you can decide just what that is. So what is the point of all this, really?

Ive got to add one more thing... I watch alot of "Naked Archeologist" and it's very interesting what this guy pulls up from the sand. You should really watch some of those. He'll pull up proof from facts.. I think Ive learned more from that show than as to what is real and make believe than anything else on this subject. This guy takes some really tough issues and brings alot of light to them. Quite simply, alot of it you just cant put aside as being "maybe". There is more truth out there than many people realise... Im not saying this on blind faith.. Watch it.. You'll see. Alot of this stuff is real because there are hard facts that prove it. I'm not a scientist or archeologist, but doesnt mean there arnt any out there that can prove it with hard facts and even real investigative speculations.