Auto Unions Refuse to Take Pay, Benefit Cuts

To those that are willing to take a pay cut to protect your job, I say put your money where your mouth is.

Be proactive and let your employer know that you wish to have your pay reduced immediately in an effort to make your job more secure.

reply to post by GamerGal

Yes, it seems like they are waging "Class Warfare". They have made the people that worked to make this country great the scapegoats. It wasn't the Rockefellers, or the Rothschilds that worked with sweat on their brows to build the railroads, the bridges, the roads, the buildings. They just stole the money from the sweat of the laborers and assured their "dominance" over the working class.
Now they won't be satisfied until all workers in every country have the same standard- that of slaves, working for peanuts, just to survive and feed their children.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by jimmyx

 

the people that are against the bailout simply do not want labor to organize in this country. this hurts the profits of the wealthy and is one of their biggest fears. when workers start to make a decent living, they are not fearful of providing for their own basic needs.

You have hit the nail on the head. A star for your post.

thanks prof...i think alot more people have come to that realization over the past year. but i fear that the corporate media will not follow through when obama gets into office. in fact the fearmongering of a depression even though it could be real, is going to grow substantually in 09. and even more then now, people will have to live with any menial job they can find, and at the same time be grateful for it. i believe these types of cycles are deliberate, for the reason my above statement implies.

reply to post by mybigunit

ahahaha and what makes the Union worker who wastes time while getting paid and the executive who spends hours on the golf course any different? Ill tell you the difference millions of dollars in pay thats the difference.

You're correct. In fact, I would propose that the person that works with their hand does more PRODUCTIVE work than all the management positions in the world, and do LESS harm with ONE mistake than the big shots, who with ONE mistake can bring down an entire company. In fact, it is the "big shots" that have, in large part, caused this financial mess. It is people like Bernard Madoff that have committed fraudulent acts that have caused citizens over $50 billion in losses. No single manual laborer could do that. It is a single person like Alan Greenspan that helped bring down an entire economy, with his manipulation of Fed funds and interest rates. I could go on and on, but the point, I think, has been made.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


I tried to keep my point simple but yes I totally agree

reply to post by jimmyx

thanks prof...i think alot more people have come to that realization over the past year. but i fear that the corporate media will not follow through when obama gets into office. in fact the fearmongering of a depression even though it could be real, is going to grow substantually in 09. and even more then now, people will have to live with any menial job they can find, and at the same time be grateful for it. i believe these types of cycles are deliberate, for the reason my above statement implies.

I'm afraid, friend that you are correct.
However, there are things that you can do right now, to help mitigate the pain you and your family will endure. These are things I have been doing for a year now, and I urge all that are concerned to follow suit.

First, start stockpiling non-perishable food items, and water.
Second, stockpile some basic medical items, including aspirin, disinfectant, bandages, etc.
Third, be prepared to defend your family. I think most of you know what that means.
Fourth, develop a network of trusted friends and relatives, that can help in times of emergency.
Stock plenty of batteries, and several battery operated radios.
If you live in climates where it gets cold, stock plenty of blankets.
Be prepared for shortages of heating fuel, and wrap any exposed water pipes with plenty of insulation.
Have insulation ready to put up on windows if you lose heat.
Form groups of people, each with a specific task or supply that they are responsible for, and make sure you have at least 2 people for each item.
There are plenty of other things you can do. If nothing happens, you always have the food, etc, to use, and you can rotate the food by using oldest date first.

For more details, there are thousands of threads on the Survival Forum.

At the end the reality is that America is losing its standards of living, going back wards from what our generations fought so hard to achieved, a better life for their families and their children future.

This degradation in the working force, the last remaining middle class is nothing but a well concocted scheme to take full control of this citizens.

As foreign nations keeps buying into the America businesses our nation will be nothing but a shadow of what once made people come running to its border for a better living.

We the American people will very soon by running oversea looking for better jobs.

And yes free trade, NAFTA and WTO policies has brought this nation to its knees while the big corporate elite profits from at the expenses of this nations livelihood.

My husband will be darn if he will take a cut in his salary to make congress and corporate America happy.

Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All of you speaking out against unions are REALLY brainwashed by the corporate machine. Unions are the people making enough to live and not letting the corporation take too much of its share and have you work for a low wage.

Europe even has unions for Wal-Mart. Even the Wal-mart employees get one month paid vacation per year because of there union but wal-mart still does business there because it still makes a profit.

Union bashing is really ignorant, its the upper managment that crashed the American Auto industry, not the laborers. We need every job and all workers united.

ahahaha and what makes the Union worker who wastes time while getting paid and the executive who spends hours on the golf course any different? Ill tell you the difference millions of dollars in pay thats the difference. There sure are some lazy union workers I totally agree.

reply to post by mybigunit


Hi mybigunit,

Good point!

There IS a LOT of humor in all of this! On the worker end you have union workers waisting time and money for work that is not getting done. Bloated retirement benifits esp at GM. And on the upper end executives spending money waistfully that they don't deserve because the company isn't profitable or worse!

I simply pointed out the waist and corruption going on in a well organized local union. What their executives do on their time off I don't know.

I can assure you that at my level of owners, managers, board members and executives, waistful spending doesn't occur (to my knowledge). If it did, the system would eliminate us very quickly because of the competitive nature of small business.

One can see from the polarized responses that this is a hotly contested issue with all sides blaming the other. One or several of the big 3 are about to fall so some common ground better be found in month or so.

Concessions are in order! Who will be the first?!

Hopefully government won't just throw money at the problem with solution in sight!

Obama, Pelosi and Ried cannot demand concessions from the unions that put them into their comfortable jobs. All they can do is loan more money to the big 3. How for does that go? My guess is about Febuary or March '09.

The big three [now the slightly smaller three] made big profits for their shareholders each year and couldn't afford strikes, so they negotiated to let future shareholders pay for their promises in return for immediate cash. The fat cats got fatter and the workers got a share. This went on for many cycles and was perpetuated by the idiots who think an economic sector can grow forever. Now, it's time to pay the piper. The contract is in place and the union won't blink. They are betting that they can do what wall street did and extort loans for the good of the economy. They may win and they may lose but if the automakers fold, what will they do?

Likely, they will work for foreign automakers in the US to supply the same total number of cars that they would have supplied in either case. They will have to move to "right to work" states and change their attitudes and work ethic. Contracts will be on an individual basis. Work output will be measured on an individual basis; no more loafers being carried by the workers. Screw up and get fired will be new situation for them. So will contributions toward health insurance with deductibles to pay like the rest of the world.

Some will succeed and some will fail but the levelling effect of the union will be gone and individual accomplishment will mean more. They were among the best paid workers and now they will have to deal with change. The tough part will be when the pension plan fails for the retirees. Promises will be broken and many will suffer. This will be a learning experience for all concerned. The workers will learn but the fat cats won't, not because they are stupid but because they are still blinded by greed and far overestimate their worth to the world.

reply to post by plumranch


Its not just about concessions its getting with the program. ALL of them need to make concessions including the Unions in which they have. But as the Union president pointed out they could work for FREE and it STILL wouldnt get them out of this mess. They need to make cars people want to buy and that comes right from the management part of the company. They need to get with the program. After this whole ordeal I think they will. I think this was a wake up call to the management who thought for all these years they could peddle crap and put a GM sticker on it and expect it to sell. They now see this isnt the case and they just now are getting their crap together.

As far as wasteful spending on the management side. Umm yes it occurs in 90% of the big businesses out there and a high % of small businesses.

Quick and to the point,
Unions make a good man lazy, and a lazy man worthless. Skilled guys/gals, you deserve your wage. But I live in a big 3 town (Chrysler) all my life I have heard these old men talk about how they make over 100k a yr and never had to do ANYTHING!!!! And the younger guys make the same amount and work for 3 hrs a day to get quota and play cards and do crosswords the rest of the day. No wonder the the son of a guns don't want things to change. My guess is that unions are making a lot of cash off of this scene and are not wanting to give. Can you blame them?!?!?!

But as the Union president pointed out they could work for FREE and it STILL wouldnt get them out of this mess.

reply to post by mybigunit


Star for your post.

They could work for free and not get out of the mess because... management made to gross mistake of giving away bloated union retirements, not requiring worker efficiency standards, wages a little on the high side, gas guzzling pickups, SUVs, etc., not forseeing the high gas prices, on and on.... I sure will miss my Chevy!

reply to post by plumranch


And I will miss my Yukon Denali It had to go compliments of the high gas prices. Bought a Toyota Yaris to replace it lol. Then gas prices went down. hehe makes no difference though I love my little Toyota. $15 to fill it up.

Unions are socialistic strong arm extortionists. They have helped to ruin the economy. Because of their greed, many companies are outsourcing and now the cry babies are strong arming the government for more money.

reply to post by jsobecky


the union did NOT refuse to consider wage cuts, they only demanded that the current contract stay intact for the duration contractual term. which is 3 more years.

the cost of labor makes up only 10% if the cost to run these companies. now lets say that we do decrease thier wages to 7%. do u really think that would help them?

the past 10 years of contracts have gained nothing. no benefits or wage increases. only loses. it is so very ignorant to blame the problems on the workforce.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
reply to post by jsobecky

 

Sen. Dodd is on CNBC live right now saying you are wrong, jsobecky. He says the auto unions had agreed to compatability and comparibility in wages and benefits as part of the deal, but the GOP still wouldn't vote for the bridge loan. Then the White House starts saying they will use TARP funds to bail out the big three. Its a dog and pony show.

Imo, the GOP is using this crisis to break the UAW, to further erode the voice and standard of living of workers in this country, and you are down with them. There is an underlying agenda at work here, and you are engaged in furthering it.

Here Here Icarus Rising....I smell a Psy-Ops agent at work here! =)

Sarg Marg has it absolutely right with her ideology behind the why and the who. She also is absolutely correct that Unions are THE LAST bastion of FAIR WAGE organizations left in America that supports the middle class

And finally, my take on this union bashing parade (wow, got a liscnece for that parade? These folks must have, since it was the Republican Party that sent out the memo directly attacking fair wage organizations and demanded a fail vote in the Senate)...

1. ) I can FACTUALLY state that anyone that is currently unemployed right now and are having a problem getting employment, it is because you do not belong to a union. If you were, you'd have a fair wage, a fair unemployment rate, and would be back to work within two months...

Contrary to popular belief, unions employ SKILLED, EDUCATED labor, from teachers to law enforcement to medical personnel to the various trades men and women that populate them. Companies need skill to succeed, not an illiterate dote that will produce less.

2. ) America is all about progress. I can understand that many of those posting on this thread are not American, and wouldn't understand the concept of progression. That is why they seem to think that backwards mobility is a good thing.

IF those AMERICAN manufacturing entities were not allowed to take the AMERICAN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY of our products and our ingenuities off shore or outsource the manufacturing and technical resources they need to operate to other countries...

DOH...

AMERICANS WOULD BE WORKING.... HEEELLOOOOOO ...

Yep, here's another one for you.

3. ) IF those same AMERICAN entities were to close those plants that they've moved to... China... India... Mexico ... Brazil ... HongKong ... Japan ... Pakistan ... Honduras .... etc... And operate solely on American soil, those assets would offset their current cost deficiencies, ya think? more profits would line the AMERICAN WORKER'S pocket out of the surplus of the owner.

and then finally...

4. ) WOW... it seems that Americans have forgotten a page in our history pertaining to the Industrial Revolution, and what BUSINESS did for the PEOPLE.... people like children, minority workers, the handicapped, and women... not to mention the men who died at their jobs by the tens of thousands, from toxic waste, improper workplace environments, over exertion, etc.

Unions brought an end to Child Labor. Unions ended Sweat Shops. Unions were the driving factor with equality in the work force for minorities and the handicapped. Unions brought you a retirement plan. Unions brought you a pension plan. Unions helped raise the standard in the workplace environment. Unions helped increase compensation against the cost of living for workers. Unions were the driving force behind safer labor standards.

UNIONS BROUGHT YOU WEEKENDS!

And who want's to end all of this?

the politicians with million dollar bank accounts.
the corporate owner with million dollar bank accounts.
the media spokesman with million dollar bank accounts.
the Chinese communist who wants American technology and the American dream for themselves...

AND ARE GETTING IT!

WAKE UP PEOPLE... join a union!

[edit on 13-12-2008 by DarkspARCS]

reply to post by TH3ON3


outsourceing is the reason for the unemployment rate. our jobs were shipped to other contries to save a few bucks. unions are voted in by the workforce. the union leaders are a part ofthe workforce. the members all vote on all the issues in every contract. it is nothing more then a goverment inside a company. should we get rid of our government also?



wanted to add this to the above post.

crooksandliars.com...

[edit on 12/13/2008 by keeff]

Originally posted by DarkspARCS

Here Here Icarus Rising....I smell a Psy-Ops agent at work here! =)

Wow.. so anyone who disagrees with you is now part of some grand conspiracy?

Sarg Marg has it absolutely right with her ideology behind the why and the who. She also is absolutely correct that Unions are THE LAST bastion of FAIR WAGE organizations left in America that supports the middle class

You consider $100,000 a year a fair wage for a job that anyone can do?

And finally, my take on this union bashing parade (wow, got a liscnece for that parade? These folks must have, since it was the Republican Party that sent out the memo directly attacking fair wage organizations and demanded a fail vote in the Senate)...

So you have no problem in that memo with that fact that Democrats are people paid heavily to legislate in favor of unions? Exactly how many more "rights" do they need if they are so good?

1. ) I can FACTUALLY state that anyone that is currently unemployed right now and are having a problem getting employment, it is because you do not belong to a union. If you were, you'd have a fair wage, a fair unemployment rate, and would be back to work at most within two months...

And who pays for these things? The Union? No. The company is forced to pay these b.s. things and will suffer greatly for making these promises. Consumers also pay the price because of the cost cutting to materials and methods to with which the product is built. Two months? Where exactly did you pull that number out of? The same place the unions did I'm guessing, their a##.

Contrary to popular belief, unions employ SKILLED labor, from teachers to law enforcement to medical personnel to the various trades men and women that populate them. Companies need skill to succeed, not an illiterate dote that will produce less.

Are you saying that anyone who isn't a part of a union is an "illiterate dote"?

2. ) America is all about progress. I can understand that many of those posting on this thread are not American, and wouldn't understand the concept of progression. That is why they seem to think that backwards mobility is a good thing.

I got news for you. Unions thrive on the status quo. They work long and hard to block innovation in the name of job security. If their is any one group that is responsible for stagnation of progress in North America, it is unions.

IF those AMERICAN manufacturing entities were not allowed to take the AMERICAN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY of our products and our ingenuities off shore or outsource the manufacturing and technical resources they need to operate to other countries...

Do you know why companies are FORCED to go outside of North America? Because greedy unions have made companies unprofitable in North America. If the businesses with unions would be forced to stay here, they would not survive. Unions have yet to figure out that anything times zero IS ZERO.

3. ) IF those same AMERICAN entities were to close those plants that they've moved to... China... India... Mexico ... Brazil ... HongKong ... Japan ... Pakistan ... Honduras .... etc... And operate solely on American soil, those assets would offset their current cost deficiencies, ya think? more profits would line the AMERICAN WORKER'S pocket out of the surplus of the owner.

I am assuming that in your hypothetical situation, that if all those plants came to America, they would all be unionized, correct? When in fact, the very reason they had to move offshore IS BECAUSE UNION WORKERS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE. You know what would happen with your hypothetical situation? Those companies would cease to exist and nobody would be able to buy their product again.

Look at Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc in the Southern States. How are they able to continue to build new plants regardless of the economic woes right now? Simple. They pay their workers what they are worth and they are able to layoff workers when they need to.

And who want's to end all of this?

the politicians with million dollar bank accounts.

Last I checked unions are the ones giving the politicians millions of dollars so they can keep running their scam.

the corporate owner with million dollar bank accounts.

And why shouldn't they want to save their companies?

the media spokesman with million dollar bank accounts.

You mean the millions of dollars that unions give to media outlets to spread their propaganda?

the Chinese communist who wants American technology and the American dream for themselves...

AND ARE GETTING IT!

So the chineese people shouldn't dream of being able to afford clothes, food, cars etc? These same people that are now being able to afford the products that US companies build?

WAKE UP PEOPLE... join a union!

In other words, Wake up people join a gang!!

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


Greetings Cool Hand Luke.

Interesting name, was a great movie. I remember a quote from that movie, a very interesting one...

"What we got here is.... FAILURE, to communicate. Now I don't like it, any more than you men. But that is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it."

You've methodically tore apart my posts in two separate threads dealing with this topic, making statements based upon a clear understanding of absolute...

What?

And for what reason? to oppose unionism. that's very funny... really, it is.

Are you a union member? Nope, I already know you're not. So, how is it you know SO MUCH about unions?

wow, an expert about nothing IMO

If you've got founded evidence to support your rancid attacks about my stand for unionism, please intelligently make them, otherwise all your spouting is biased propaganda from the comfort of your arm chair.

I am a union member, who also has worked in the same trade in the non union sector... I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE... you possibly cannot.

Good day to you.