Auto Unions Refuse to Take Pay, Benefit Cuts

Its as simple as black and white. The unions served their purpose in our early industralization as a watchdog for corporate abuse, hoverer, the tide has turned. Unions are responsible for our massive defection of jobs to other 3rd world countries as we, as consumers, want lower prices, such as Wallyworld, but refuse to take pay and salary cuts to sustain lower prices. Look at Levi jeans and Rubbermaid for example. They had to leave the USA to maintain their price advantage for Wallyworld as their local workforce would not take changes in their compensation.
Let the BIG #3 fail. Its time to take America back. I'm sorry, but no one is worth the amount of compensation that the autoworker unions are making.

Here is the problem with bailing out the big 3 and the UAW and CAW. In the America they want taxpayers to fork over $15 billion and in Canada they want us to pay $6 billion. The problem is that they want to steal money that was taken from taxpayers by government force (taxes) to pay for a failing business that couldn't make money even when times were good. Now when the average taxpayer sees how much these Union workers are getting paid, it doesn't make sense to give them money.

In a sense, this is like a reverse Robin Hood type story where the overpaid are stealing from everybody (taxpayers).

We have all the wrong people in charge looking at something they don't understand. People that have no ideas, values or worth, are trying to solve a very serious problem. Wouldn't we be better of using OPM (other peoples money)? Toyota, Honda should be forced to pay a higher living wage to auto workers equal to Detroit. Problem solved! You must pay $75 per hour not $45 if you want to use our civilized markets. Why beat up on the working class with pay and benefit cuts? When I heard that Senator complaining about the CEOs flying to DC on private jets at $3,600 each, I could hardly stop laughing. Pelosi spends $60,000 per flight between DC and Frisco and that is a least twice a week. Pigs shouldn't complain about others behaving piggishly.

reply to post by GamerGal


You are forgetting a very important cost that no other industry pays because, well it doesn't make sense. I think you would be hardpressed to find another company that continues to pay workers 4 years after they have been fired or laid off.

When GM was trying to restructure not too long ago, they offered six figure severance packages to let alot of these overpaid lineworkers go. Guess what, the UAW refused. Can you find me any other company in the manufacturing industry that would offer such a generous package? Does it make any sense at all?

And why should the worker on the "floor" go down in wages when their bosses have been skimming the milk for years with salaries which could keep a whole production line working for a year?

Do not blame the unions, blame the bosses...

Best regards.

Loke.

reply to post by marg6043


How about not using sources that have an obvious agenda. A pro-union website and a anti-business website? You might as well have thrown in a pro communist website for good measure and claimed it not have an interest in skewing numbers and stories to promote its message. Good Grief

reply to post by Loke.


Look, the head honchos of these companies share much of the blame. They built crappy cars and ran the company as if nothing bad could ever happen to them. But this thread is dedicated to what the UAW has done and is doing to bring down GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


Sorry to burst your bubble my friend but spare me the communist rhetoric it doesn't work with me.

And as for the sources guess what the story is real regardless who is telling the story so don't shoot the messenger.

I work at an auto plant. and I have NEVER seen or heard of any one losing their job, either by lay-off or fired, that gets paid for any amount of time after termination.

PLEASE people, STOP believing what you hear and posting this nonsense as truth.

the union is NOT the problem. it is the monetary system that IS/WAS setup for failure to begin with.

I have to laugh at the ignorance of this thread. I have worked in the Auto industry for years and yes there were lazy people that were over paid years ago, but that stopped about 10 years ago.

Most new live workers start at $14 an hour.

I can't believe the whining here and the outrage over $15 billion dollars, which is a joke compared to the $2 trillion dollars the feds gave away and will not disclose where it went.

Are you people fricken awake?

Auto industry has to have complete disclosure for $15 billion, but the crooks on Wall Street, federal reserve, and the government can give away trillions with a single iota of where it's going. WTF!

Have any of you ever heard of a "Red Herring"? again wake up.

Our government produces nothing, the Auto industry is the last remaining thing here in the US that actually produces something.

People here bitch about how Union workers do nothing and get paid high wages, what about politicians? How much are they getting paid? and benefits? Again Wake UP!

I have to laugh at how easily people are manipulated by the media.

reply to post by jsobecky


This entire topic is "Unions(And the workers) are evil!" So, how is that a lie. And keep ignoring that Toyota employees make the same or more then GM workers. 10% is the millions of GM employees. 99.9999% is CEO cost. Now if you do the math that equals more then 100%. Just trying to show how much 6-10 people make, and the cost it has on the car, compared to the millions of those "evil" Middle Class Americans as you call them. Also, Japan helps Toyota, and why can the Republicans give TRILLIONS to their best friends and owners with no oversight but the companies that hire Americans are raked over the coals?

[edit on 14-12-2008 by GamerGal]

reply to post by Realtruth


And the last of the steel companies my friend lets not forget them also, right now America produces the best quality steel in the world, but there comes China with their crappy steel at cheaper prices and now the steel companies in America are also falling under the influences of cheaper goods.

America is really been taken for a right sadly all we do is letting the crocks in Washington keep profiting from the American dreams now gone oversea while still rapping anything they can from what is left behind.

Thanks for bringing some sense.

Originally posted by Realtruth

I can't believe the whining here and the outrage over $15 billion dollars, which is a joke compared to the $2 trillion dollars the feds gave away and will not disclose where it went.

Are you suggesting that the people opposed to the bailout of the Big 3 were for the big bailout?

Have any of you ever heard of a "Red Herring"? again wake up.

Like the one in the above paragraph? Two wrongs do not make a right.

Our government produces nothing, the Auto industry is the last remaining thing here in the US that actually produces something.

Yes but they are not producing something that is viable. If they continue to have this do nothing attitude and continue to milk money out of a company that does not make a profit, they will have killed it completely. Which is in fact what has been happening the last few years.

People here bitch about how Union workers do nothing and get paid high wages, what about politicians? How much are they getting paid? and benefits? Again Wake UP!

Again are you suggesting that people against the auto bailout are happy about politicians? By the way, you might want to look at how much money the UAW has paid politicians to vote their way.

I have to laugh at how easily people are manipulated by the media.

Indeed

reply to post by DarkspARCS


The mystery is solved, and I now have a term to explain why over the past couple decades, many women, including young women half my age have wanted me to father their children!

All this time I though it was for the reasons they gave me: rugged good looks, blonde hair & deep blue eyes, near perfect genetics, ancestors live four to five score years, intelligence in the top one half of one percent, and otherwise, "blessed" where it counts.

But thanks to DarkSparcs, I now have the real reason. I'm a propogation artist!

That would likewise explain the opposite sex finding me highly desirable.

My fellow propogation artists jsobecky and Cool Hand Luke and I should maybe get together and start our own version of a "fertility clinic."

A propogation artist.

I've never been prouder. Even my momma would be proud to hear that.

Thanks!

reply to post by jimmyx

the people that are against the bailout simply do not want labor to organize in this country.

The people FOR the bailout think its okay for a government (monopoly of preemptive violence) to steal the fruits of labor from some people to 'invest' in a crap company with no hope of a return. I say this for ANY bailout.

It is not about wages as much as it is volume. They need to downsize thier business. This will happen one of two ways. Bankruptcy, or a painful agreement with the UAW and the company.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke


Again are you suggesting that people against the auto bailout are happy about politicians? By the way, you might want to look at how much money the UAW has paid politicians to vote their way.

lol!

Happy? No just a sleep or awake enough to swallow the "Red Herring"

I can see just how much the payoffs are working for them now.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Cool Hand Luke

 

Sorry to burst your bubble my friend but spare me the communist rhetoric it doesn't work with me.

And as for the sources guess what the story is real regardless who is telling the story so don't shoot the messenger.

What I was getting at is that there is a flip side to every coin. For instance, they spend alot more time bashing the company than they do trying to explain the situation. Particularly, in regards to Mr. Uchino's case.

Let's look at his case shall we. He was a 3rd generation toyota worker, who voluntarily wanted to work at toyota. He was a hard worker, and was offered to take on more responsibility resulting in a higher wage. He worked long hours, that yes he sometimes complained about but knew that he was ensuring a better future for his family. In much of his off the clock time he continued to work on reports for the company. (btw my brother has to do the same, unpaid.) After his death, his wife fought for compensation and damages she felt were the responsibility of the company. She fought for many years and finally she won her case and was compensated.

Mr. Uchinos story is not unlike many stories here in North America including my father's. Now we can look at this story from a North American 2008 perspective and shake our heads at this situation declare this to be incredibly wrong. But it was not so long ago that our forefathers were in the same situation. The end result was that the more menial jobs disappeared either completely (due to automation) or to other countries who were now looking to start their industrial base. New jobs came along thanks to the advent of technology. Workplaces also benefitted from technology thanks to things like air conditioning, easier to use tools, etc.

Now I may have come off a little harsh in my reply (I do apologize), but I am merely stating that there is always another side to a story.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


My two cents: UAW workers are earning 28/hr plus bennies, whereas Toyota employees for example get 30/hour with bonuses plus bennies. Furthermore the UAW and the CAW have given up alot over the years to appease companies like GM. Of course it's never enough so GM keeps trying to lay blame on its union employees. And it's been like that for years now.

Christ I could go on for ever and ever but I won't coz this sorta bull just riles me. However I will finish by saying the reason the bailout didn't pass is because the Republicans were trying to bust the union up. So there ... . I'm gonna stop now coz my blood pressure needs a break.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

My two cents: UAW workers are earning 28/hr plus bennies, whereas Toyota employees for example get 30/hour with bonuses plus bennies. Furthermore the UAW and the CAW have given up alot over the years to appease companies like GM. Of course it's never enough so GM keeps trying to lay blame on its union employees. And it's been like that for years now.

I can guarantee you the "bennies" are vastly different between the Union workers and non union workers. But let's look at what else a union does. They are a business. They are interested in making a profit. How do they make a profit? They must increase members or try to keep as many as they can. So if a company like GM wants to restructure and have more automation and get rid of workers it no longer needs, the unions self interest is to keep that from happening because without these members, they lose money. They do it under the guise of "job security." That is the reason why you will never see Ford or GM build a plant like this in North America. Ford's most advanced assembly plant operates in rural Brazil

EDIT TO ADD: If your claims are indeed true that non union workers make more than union workers, then how is that an argument FOR unions? Plus the union workers have to pay union fees where a nonunion worker does not.

Christ I could go on for ever and ever but I won't coz this sorta bull just riles me. However I will finish by saying the reason the bailout didn't pass is because the Republicans were trying to bust the union up. So there ... . I'm gonna stop now coz my blood pressure needs a break.

I say good riddance that a few politicians finally got a backbone. But it looks like they are going to get their welfare check any way, and it most definitely will not be the last. So you win, give yourself a pat on the back.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

reply to post by Total Reality


Are you Mad? The employees vote their for Union reps, who in turn negotiate extravagant contracts, who in turn advise the union employees to reject or accept contracts. In my experience they always reject the companies offer, never agree to wage cuts and always ask for more pay and benefits. I can't beleive how all these people always tow the union line.
Unions were useful 30 years ago. A very small minority are still relevent today. They are the biggest reason North American companies cannot compete on the international market. But never mind common sense they deserve everything they get (don't they?) by insisting on ever increasing salaries and outrageous benefits. Let the unions fall!

(ie: the city bus drivers in Ottawa, Canada are on strike because the senior drivers don't want to loose the right to pick and choose their shifts. They say it's a matter of being shown some respect. The junior guys with OC Transpo earn more a year to start then I do after the 20 some odd years with the the organization that I currently work for.)