peace of Jerusalem

I don't think the issue is about a certain temple but more about belief.

The old religions argue over borders, history and they confuse people with clinging to misunderstood ideas.
They teach of miracles and knowing Gods commands when we all see that the truth is much more than that.

You are right about that. The real temple of God is the human body. God is spirit not stone or wood or an ark or anything outside yourself. The last person to have lived this reality was Jesus who showed us the way to be yet even he said he could not do anything against unbelief. I have personally witnessed the power of belief in other people who claimed that I made them believe but this is not true it was their own belief that gave them power to heal themselves.Either we manifest flesh or we manifest spirit. Both need to be put in their proper place and not try to be what they are not. Believing is an identity not an action. Unbelievers act like they believe but in fact are unbelievers. The truth reveals them as what they truly are.Lovers of truth or lovers of lies. The traditions of men are the lies that deceive. I would not trust a person who confesses that they once worshiped a black meteorite stone.

reply to post by allthings2allmen

So everything in your OP is pointless?

What difference does it make where this or that wall stands if the real temple is the human body?

allthings2allmen

I would not trust a person who confesses that they once worshiped a black meteorite stone.

More later, but this had to be answered immediately.

What about your Palestinian buddies? You don't trust 'em?

You seem to have exposed your underbelly here.

I'm wondering why anyone should trust you, you, who pays lip service to the Palestinian "cause", and then out of his other face trashes them.

Muslims are telling me that you are merely using the Palestinians, as most others do, simply to further your own agenda. They say you don't give a rat's ass about Palestinians or "the Peace of Jerusalem", and that this faux pas proves it.

They say that you are, in fact, in to self-promotion, and just using Palestinians and Jerusalem as a spring-board for that aim. They also say you don't know jack-crap about Islam, to make such an egregiously errant statement about what they worship.

Caught out again, I guess.

You guess wrong again. When I was twelve I went on a school trip to the middle east. There was peace there and everybody was welcoming. It is only after the Zionist took up the symbols of the Jewish religion to hide the fact that they were a secular state that friction started in the middle east. When the war started which is a speciality of the Zionists then the neo nazi state of Israel showed it's true colors. Being all things to all men I am both the Mahdi and the Jewish end time Elijah and the prince of peace. When I start a thread called the peace of Jerusalem I am not pandering to one side or the other. To care about the Palestinians makes me anti semite. To care about Israel which is a problem that America and England created means I am anti Palestinian. I am not anti anything except against war. Resolving this temple issue is the beginning of a process of peace between two factions that are at war. To resolve the war between spirit and flesh is also a peace process. To come against me is to not want the peace process to start. But nothing can stop it. You think of yourself as a resistance fighter but the only thing you are fighting is peace. I once met the Saudi prince in Switzerland and entering the bar I said Allah Akbar and he answered to me in Arabic yes but your ass is greater. Shalom my friend

I have a gift for the Palestinians other than peace. I give them free of any charge the Petra project which can change their fortunes. The distance between the west bank and the Gaza strip is seventy kilometers. With a ten meter tunnel they can channel water from the med sea to the dead sea using gravity. I have a tunnel boring expert who will give them all the help they need and all the technical data they need. I want nothing in return. They can become net exporters of clean hydro electric power and use the energy to desalinate water. What do you bring to the table other than accusations?

allthings2allmen

You guess wrong again. When I was twelve I went on a school trip to the middle east. There was peace there and everybody was welcoming.

You were born 26 October, 1954. That would place your age 12 in 1966-1967. Should we REALLY examine the real history of the middle east and compare it to the "recall" of a 12 year old foreign schoolboy? We can do that, if you'd like. I don't think it would compare favorably. The comparisons can start here. That's just 1966. Moving into 1967, we run up squarely against the Six Day War.

you have an odd notion of "peace".

It is only after the Zionist took up the symbols of the Jewish religion to hide the fact that they were a secular state that friction started in the middle east. When the war started which is a speciality of the Zionists then the neo nazi state of Israel showed it's true colors.

Yawn.

Did you find those scary Zionists hiding under your bed again?

Being all things to all men I am both the Mahdi and the Jewish end time Elijah and the prince of peace.

Way to go there, slugger! In a single sentence, you managed to piss off nearly everyone in 3 of the world's major religions! I can hear garments rending all around the world at this instant, and screams of "blasphemy!" All that from such a little man with such a big ego! Way to go, slugger!

When I start a thread called the peace of Jerusalem I am not pandering to one side or the other. To care about the Palestinians makes me anti semite. To care about Israel which is a problem that America and England created means I am anti Palestinian. I am not anti anything except against war.

Yeah, you're not going to get much "peace" mileage blaspheming against all of them and trashing their beliefs, like that dig about Muslims worshiping "a black meteorite". Good Luck with that.

Do you even know the Mahdi's real name? Hint: Muslims are pretty firm in their statements that "it's NOT Sigmund!". What was the last thing you did before you went into Ghayba, and how old were you when you did it? You can probably look it up, but it will take more time than you have to answer.

If you are the Mahdi,when was the last time that blood was shed in the Ka'aba, and what is the significance of this question? What concern has the Mahdi with the location of the Temple Mount at all?

You are a charlatan.

Resolving this temple issue is the beginning of a process of peace between two factions that are at war.

You're not going to resolve it with a lie that no thinking person is going to buy after just a modicum of research, but again, good luck with that.

To resolve the war between spirit and flesh is also a peace process. To come against me is to not want the peace process to start.

Where, oh where, have i heard that phrase - "you're either with us or against us" - before?

But nothing can stop it. You think of yourself as a resistance fighter but the only thing you are fighting is peace. I once met the Saudi prince in Switzerland and entering the bar I said Allah Akbar and he answered to me in Arabic yes but your ass is greater. Shalom my friend

Once upon a time I was a "resistance fighter", but not any more. Nowadays, I just call out BS onto the carpet when I see it. That's not "resistance", it's just calling out BS and making it account for itself. Peace is a fine thing, but peace at any price is not - that's slavery. The price is too high. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Your story of the "Saudi Prince" is pure, unadulterated BS. I've known Saudi princes (There are, as it turns out, quite a few of them). Known them well enough to have been invited to live there, and work as an oil field inspector in Dhahran. I know the Sa'uds well enough to know that story is a complete fabrication. Are we to add Arabic to your language repertoire? What IS the Arabic for "yes, but your ass is greater" then? In this, you will NOT fool me, because I DO have a smattering of Arabic under my belt.

The more you say, the more you expose yourself as a fraud in the "prophethood" department.

Matoutik Ahkbar. It is an off color joke about the practice of kneeling to pray. Unless you are on the first row you are pretty much worshiping the ass that is in front of you. The prince in question is actually the current king. It was at my father's hotel and my twin brother who was manager introduced me to him maybe thirty five years ago. Princes do go to bars when they go to foreign countries and they do have a sense of humor which seems to be laking in you. I will remember to open a bar called the Akbar when I am finished with my mission. Since it is those who are not offended who are blessed my guess is that you do not feel blessed. The Quran itself says do not follow the false prophet Mohamed, I have not sent him the angel Gabriel but he was deceived by a genie. To be declared a prophet in 6 century Medina you had to be epileptic with evidence of foaming at the mouth and have a large mole in the middle of the back. That is how Mohamed became a false prophet. So it does not matter which of his grandsons thinks he is right the grand father was wrong to start with. Jihad is not exactly much different than the crusades. Both works of the devil.

allthings2allmen
Matoutik Ahkbar.

Negative.

That's funny, but not Arabic. No clue what you're trying to spell there. It's nothing to do with your ass being bigger than Allah, nor anything to do with "ass" at all.

It is an off color joke about the practice of kneeling to pray. Unless you are on the first row you are pretty much worshiping the ass that is in front of you.

That would earn one a crack in the noggin.

The prince in question is actually the current king.

Of course he is! Why didn't I see THAT coming? I guess I'm just not "profit" material! I really can't see a Sa'ud trying to impress a westerner by trashing his OWN religion. They may not practice what they preach, but they sure do preach up a storm!

It was at my father's hotel and my twin brother who was manager introduced me to him maybe thirty five years ago. Princes do go to bars when they go to foreign countries and they do have a sense of humor which seems to be laking in you.

Yeah, I'm all business. No sense of humor at all. let me try, though: did you hear the one about the guy who thought he was a profit, and thought he could single-handedly bring peace to the middle east?

No, it ain't working for me. It just ain't funny.

I will remember to open a bar called the Akbar when I am finished with my mission.

You do that. Any word from Above yet as to the timetable for completion of that "mission"? I'm getting thirsty already. I'll open a joint next door and call it the "Akbar Snackbar Crowbar". One stop shopping. There will be dancing girls.

Since it is those who are not offended who are blessed my guess is that you do not feel blessed.

I'm blessed every minute of every day. You can't take that. Give it a try.

The Quran itself says do not follow the false prophet Mohamed, I have not sent him the angel Gabriel but he was deceived by a genie.

I'm gonna need surah and verse on that claim. There's a verse that says that is what people are saying about the Mohammed, but then goes on to dispute the claim.

To be declared a prophet in 6 century Medina you had to be epileptic with evidence of foaming at the mouth and have a large mole in the middle of the back. That is how Mohamed became a false prophet.

I'm gonna need a source for that claim, too. Something other than "Answering Islam" dot com. A sunnah or hadith reference gets bonus points, since they are the sole source of information on 6th century Medina. Mohammed's mission was in the 5th century, by the way. in 6th century Medina, he had the prophet market pretty well cornered.

So it does not matter which of his grandsons thinks he is right the grand father was wrong to start with. Jihad is not exactly much different than the crusades. Both works of the devil.

So if it does not matter, why do you claim the office and lineage? See how logic can trip one up?

reply to post by daskakik


The entifada started when the prime minister of Israel visited a tunnel excavated for structural reparations on the wall because their is a huge bulge in it and it threatened collapse on the people praying underneath. The arabs thought that the Jews were trying to set explosives under the dome of the rock so that they could built their third temple there in the wrong location. It is germane to the peace that the proper location be revealed and then the Jews will be able to start construction. The lot where it belongs is actually vacant to this day and construction could start yesterday if the archeological blunder is corrected. Never mind that the current wall is an abomination in my eyes and that the third temple will also be an abomination. The right to religion is a God given right and so is the right to be stupid. That I declare all religion to be stupid does not mean that it should not be allowed. The truth and enlightenment will make religion no longer attractive to anyone unless they want to appear to be ridiculous. I named this thread the peace of Jerusalem for one reason. Not that it is sacred nor that it is a den of thieves. I have already declared another location the New Jerusalem cause the old one was destroyed. The reason is that Arabs and Jews would go to war over the destruction of the dome of the rock mosque. This need not happen with a bit of education.

allthings2allmen
Matoutik Ahkbar. It is an off color joke about the practice of kneeling to pray. Unless you are on the first row you are pretty much worshiping the ass that is in front of you.

About this.

I just checked with a Muslim, whose Arabic is better than mine after all these years, and was told that the phrase is "ma toutak akbar", and means literally "what gives you the greatest?" i.e. "what makes YOU great?"

ROFLMFAO!

he wasn't saying what you thought. He was telling you that everything you have and are comes from someone else, and that you are nothing. Abdullah was calling you out.

Can we discuss this over a Brown Cow? You can explain to me the meaning of "ما تعطيك أكبر".

What religion does is it declares the last person to have spoken for God the last person period. This effectively tells God to STFU and so since Jesus and Mohamed anyone claiming to have made a connection with the spirit that dwells in all men is declared a heretic and a blasphemer. But if I can convince you that God is in you and he would like nothing better than for you to lend him your voice so that he can be heard again. You would think it your duty to do so and disobedience not to. Religion silences the spirit and locks it up in a dungeon of flesh till death do you part. This is unfair not to you but unfair to God. This is why I say that spirit and flesh are in enmity and guess who is going to win the war in the end. Your flesh is going to die and the spirit will return to itself since there is only one spirit of God. The other spirits have no right to your body, they are trespassing and it is because you have participated in religion that you have allowed demons to inhabit your temple. These are the doctrines of demons and the truth cast out demons and returns God's property to the spirit. You flesh is the reason why the brightness of the light of God does not shine in your words. The lamp shade of the spirit is the flesh. Shame on it. Repent now and become the light of the world or repent latter when it is common place to do so. You will see that I have no more authority than you do. Prophets are subject to other prophets but when a false prophet shows up everybody else just laughs. The whole of creation is waiting expectantly the manifestation of the sons of God. Like you say tiger step up to the plate and become what you were meant to be. You will be proud and in good company when they call you blasphemer.

reply to post by allthings2allmen

You say you have declared a new jerusalem, not that that means anything either but, what difference would it make if they go to war or not?

allthings2allmen

But if I can convince you that God is in you and he would like nothing better than for you to lend him your voice so that he can be heard again. You would think it your duty to do so and disobedience not to.

Well, I was convinced of that long before you came along. We were doing just fine then, and still are. I already lend it my voice - don't need your permission, but thanks anyhow. I don't need to take the place of Jesus, or The Mahdi, or Elijah, or anyone else to speak up. I can do it as myself. 'Tis treason and identity theft to do anything else. It was the alleged crime of Satan - trying to raise himself above God.

Religion silences the spirit and locks it up in a dungeon of flesh till death do you part. This is unfair not to you but unfair to God.

I reckon we must be defining "religion" somewhat differently. then.

This is why I say that spirit and flesh are in enmity and guess who is going to win the war in the end. Your flesh is going to die and the spirit will return to itself since there is only one spirit of God. The other spirits have no right to your body, they are trespassing and it is because you have participated in religion that you have allowed demons to inhabit your temple.

Uh, sure. OK. I'll take God's word for it, over yours, if you don't mind.

These are the doctrines of demons and the truth cast out demons and returns God's property to the spirit.

partially correct. the Truth DOES shine a light in the darkness. You know what happens then, right?

You flesh is the reason why the brightness of the light of God does not shine in your words.

What about yours?

The lamp shade of the spirit is the flesh. Shame on it. Repent now and become the light of the world or repent latter when it is common place to do so.

"Repent! Repent! For the End is nigh!" It helps to have a sandwich board, a robe, and be standing on a street corner when uttering those words. It lends a certain ambiance to the uttering.

You will see that I have no more authority than you do.

Truer words were never spoken.

Prophets are subject to other prophets but when a false prophet shows up everybody else just laughs.

Indeed, they DO!

The whole of creation is waiting expectantly the manifestation of the sons of God. Like you say tiger step up to the plate and become what you were meant to be. You will be proud and in good company when they call you blasphemer.

1) I already have, and I am.

2) I don't need to blaspheme anything, or anyone. If my belief will not stand on it's own, I should probably be looking more closely at theirs, rather than blaspheming it and trying to tear it down solely to build mine up. Mine needs no further building.

3) Not only are prophets subject to other prophets, but they are subject to all, and subject to testing. The general sequence of events is to weigh, measure, and find.

mene, mene, tekel upharsin.

allthings2allmen

I named this thread the peace of Jerusalem for one reason. Not that it is sacred nor that it is a den of thieves. I have already declared another location the New Jerusalem cause the old one was destroyed.

Zermatt, Switzerland, I presume. Linky

The reason is that Arabs and Jews would go to war over the destruction of the dome of the rock mosque. This need not happen with a bit of education.

Or the right misdirection and sleight of hand, eh?

You mark my words to better accuse me. Does the MO sound familiar. If Jesus had pharisees as enemies so do I. Why wonder? Isn't your mission to just make me doubt? Do you think you are going to succeed? No doubt you do. Now if we can get back the the wall in question. I say it is an abomination that Orthodox Jews would be praying on a Roman wall. Secondly it is an abomination that they would be praying to a Muslim wall. It is not because everybody does it that makes it OK. Do you not find it to be an idol of sorts? Do you agree that all foreign diplomats should do so as well under the threat of causing a diplomatic incident? Jesus said don't you know that you are Gods. Why would God bow to a wall? Do you not find that tradition to be silly and what is sacred about it?

reply to post by allthings2allmen


Sigmund, I have a question for you. You seem pretty intent that your findings are solid, and the research that you and Phil have done is the absolute truth, so have you actually done anything about it? Have you contacted anyone, or had meetings to show anyone your research? And if you have, who did you do this with? And what was the outcome?

Okay, that was more than one question, but I'd like you to answer them please.

reply to post by MissBeck


Philip and I got interested in the temple issue when we were studying a book about essential doctrines and the author wrote a book about the lost temples of Jerusalem. I have always had an interest in archeology and ancient monuments so there was a connection between faith and temples built by men as opposed to the human body being the temple of God. I believe that anything outside the human body considered sacred is a form of idolatry. It appears that as soon as two stones are stacked one upon the other human beings attribute all kinds of values to it. Given enough time they become sacred. I do not believe that anything built by the hands of men is sacred no matter how beautiful. Cathedrals , mosques, temples, synagogues and churches. Not the habitations of God but rather of religious demons. This particular wall seems to me to represent the epitome of this trend. Frankly to me it is like the gates of hell. Now because of the stigma associated with the holocaust this wall has become as sacred as anything man has ever called sacred. They have milked the holocaust for everything it was worth. You do not hear about other genocides because they don't get as much press. Anything said against the policies of the Jewish lobbies in America and Europe is immediately labeled anti semitic. But the Palestinians are just as semitic as the Jews if not even more so. A simple blood test will show so. It is really a zionist program that created the state of Israel who now have been running the biggest open air concentration camp for over sixty years under the hospices of the UN. I think it is about time that they be embarrassed by the lies that they have made us swallow and that we bought hook line and sinker.They want to build the third temple and that is fine but not at the expense of other peoples holiest places. Jerusalem is considered important for three of the major religions of the world and if you are into desecration it is a good place to start. We went there Philip and I a couple of summers ago for this and another energy project. You can measure how sensitive this issue is just by the amount of resistance people put into it. Quasi demonic I would say.

allthings2allmen

You mark my words to better accuse me.

Something like that, I suppose. The fact remains that if you want someone to hang onto your words, you had probably better choose them very carefully.

Does the MO sound familiar.

Vaguely, not overly. I'm not all that familiar with it. At times, one need be in a world without being of it, just passing through, as it were.

If Jesus had pharisees as enemies so do I.

Jehovah's Witnesses also have a persecution complex. It doesn't get them very far, though. Often not even past the threshold, which circumstance often paradoxically strengthens their persecution complex, and makes them think they are "closer to God" than the average bear. Raining on their parade is a public service to them.

Why wonder? Isn't your mission to just make me doubt? Do you think you are going to succeed? No doubt you do.

No. I don't care what you believe. I have no reason to make you doubt it. Your belief is your own, not mine. I have no interest in silencing you or changing your mind. I DO have an interest in answering your statements, though, for the benefit of others - to give them something to think about in considering it. You should welcome that event. It gives you a chance to examine your own theories just as thoroughly as the rest of the world will. If your premise cannot stand against MY mundane questions and comments, how do you think it will fare in the bigger, badder world? It gives you a chance to put a finer point on your premise by answering the questions and showing how they fit into your assertion - how it accounts for them. It gives you a chance to "sharpen your sword". A dull one is only good for cracking nuts.

Now if we can get back the the wall in question.

But of course! You're the host here - I follow your lead. Isn't it nice to have that much control?

I say it is an abomination that Orthodox Jews would be praying on a Roman wall. Secondly it is an abomination that they would be praying to a Muslim wall. It is not because everybody does it that makes it OK. Do you not find it to be an idol of sorts?

If they were praying to the wall, of course it would be an idol - whether it was Roman, Muslim, Jewish, or Australian Aborigine. In examining the issue, I find that is not the case at all - they are not "praying to the wall". If, however, they were, that would not be my concern, as it isn't my religion. They are welcome to whatever beliefs they want to hold, just as you are, because those beliefs don't impact my own. I wouldn't care if they were worshiping guardrails, and burning incense to them on highways. That would be their gig, not mine, and it would not affect reality at all. Proselytizing might, however, be another matter. In that case, I would be duty bound to question their beliefs, and see what answers they could provide to those questions for the benefit of potential acolytes.

Do you agree that all foreign diplomats should do so as well under the threat of causing a diplomatic incident?

I don't care what foreign dignitaries and diplomats do. They make their own beds. Worrying over foreign dignitaries is not my bailiwick - that would be B.'s lookout. Diplomats and "dignitaries" are generally speaking a pampered, spoiled lot. If they didn't want to play that game, they should have gone into welding instead.

Jesus said don't you know that you are Gods.

No, he said "is it not written 'I have said you are gods' " - with explanation.

Why would God bow to a wall?

HOW would it bow to a wall? God doesn't have a waist to bow from.

Do you not find that tradition to be silly and what is sacred about it?

It doesn't matter how I find that tradition, as it is not MY tradition. I find nothing sacred about it, but it isn't my religion to sanctify. I don't believe God lives there any more, but simply moving does not change the fact of where the Jewish temple once stood, and does not change the fact of what is sacred to them. Revisionist history merely for the sake of an agenda does violence to history. When that happens, people can no longer study actual history to learn from it's mistakes. They are then eternally doomed to repeat them, in ignorance.

reply to post by allthings2allmen

You mark my words to better accuse me. Does the MO sound familiar. If Jesus had pharisees as enemies so do I. Why wonder? Isn't your mission to just make me doubt?

Can't (as you describe yourself) "the Mahdi and the Jewish end time Elijah and the prince of peace." even read??

nenothtu has made it clear several times that he is calling BS on you and catching you in contradictions and outright dishonesty.

And "mark my words to better accuse me"?? A threat from an impotent snake oil salesman?? lol

Repent now and become the light of the world or repent latter when it is common place to do so. You will see that I have no more authority than you do. Prophets are subject to other prophets but when a false prophet shows up everybody else just laughs.

Yes we do laugh. And point out the BS.
Does this ring a bell for you?

t appears that as soon as two stones are stacked one upon the other human beings attribute all kinds of values to it. Given enough time they become sacred. I do not believe that anything built by the hands of men is sacred no matter how beautiful.

They want to build the third temple and that is fine but not at the expense of other peoples holiest places . Jerusalem is considered important for three of the major religions of the world and if you are into desecration it is a good place to start.Parenthesis mine.

You say buildings are not sacred (holy) then a few sentences later want the 3rd temple built elsewhere.
Reason you give?
"but not at the expense of other peoples holiest (sacred) places"..."if you are into desecration (To violate the sacredness of...) it is a good place to start."

Can something not sacred be desecrated?