The Conspiracy Theory Is True: Agents Infiltrate Websites Intending To "Manipulate, Deceive, And De

Bravo!!! S&F

Immediately made me think of this incident...

Char-Lee

I thought about what you said and I could think of no logical reason for them to "tell us what we want to hear" in this maner. But than I thought of one possibility, it does serve to separate and cause suspicion between us. We will start to question legitimate arguments that we are in disagreement with as manipulated.

There's that.
A Nation could do quite a bit of damage to it's enemies by "leaking" documents reporting juicy but ambiguous details about the hundreds of spies and informants it has embedded in "key positions" all throughout the government.
They wouldn't even have to have a single spy on enemy soil and the enemy will decimate itself in a ghost hunt for nonexistent traitors, collaborators and spies.

You can get similar effect in online forums with the more unstable and excitable types going straight for the finger pointing.
It's a great way to pick out the softies for other sorts of grooming, because, hey, excitable soft headed people make very convenient idiots.

Fun stuff!

Divide and conquer. Let your enemies be their own enemies.

There's other benefits as well, such as the "nuclear" deterrent.
Once everyone knows you have a bomb big enough to destroy any target at any time, anywhere, those that don't share that capability might be a little more shy about aggressive overtures.
In this case, at least a portion of it, we have an Information Bomb.
"Piss us off and you'll have all your own citizens at the gates with pitchforks and torches, all thanks to a surprising social media campaign".

Why send in soldiers when you can get a Nation's own population to do the dirty work for you, courtesy of some strategic social networking kicked off by a 10,000 fake accounts that can be managed by just 100 people with keyboards?
Fun, yes?

That's just a bitty bit of it.

Letting the whole world know you can do this, like the spy example builds mythology too.
Rumors get started about mind control, mind readers, smart-dust drone clouds, and other spooky stuff and none of these things need to exist, even if they do exist at all to have an effect or be effective as a bogeyman.

reply to post by tetra50


reply to post by tetra50


Personally, I feel nothing should define the time... only we should define it ourselves...
I mean why wait to be pushed to the limit, if you already have a limit, that in a sense should cause us to redefine our limits.

And with all due respect, if as you say "all we really have is this moment"... then surely we shouldn't even have a limit, we should just stand straight up and say we won't allow this to continue, we will not limit ourselves, because then to an extent we automatically & wilfully become a metaphorical doormat to the paradigm.


& not so much directed toward just yourself, but many others who have said this is not "new news"...
I tend to disagree... because all we really had was conjecture, inclination & suspicions... that were readily downtrodden with exactly the type of COINTELPRO we are discussing.
Now, we do know, for a fact, and the "you're crazy" labels & "the government would waste money on such & such disinformation" arguments are now null&void... now those sort of accusations are something we can in kind, dismiss as we have been for so long!

It probably won't bring an end to it, and as somebody rightly mentioned, we should definitely not become overly skeptical of those who disagree just because of this, but being a website that consists of a fairly bright bunch, this should at the least become less of a problem!


This was not to say I do not see your overall point, just to hopefully add another perspective to this.
Your observation of "when in Rome" does ring true, as does the idea this can be changed, as it may be an inherited system like you said, this is something I have believed & had faith on for a while now, & that one day we will see such a change!


Peace.

AliceBleachWhite
...A Nation could do quite a bit of damage to it's enemies by "leaking" documents reporting juicy but ambiguous details about the hundreds of spies and informants it has embedded in "key positions" all throughout the government.
They wouldn't even have to have a single spy on enemy soil and the enemy will decimate itself in a ghost hunt for nonexistent traitors, collaborators and spies.

You can get similar effect in online forums with the more unstable and excitable types going straight for the finger pointing.
It's a great way to pick out the softies for other sorts of grooming, because, hey, excitable soft headed people make very convenient idiots.

...Divide and conquer. Let your enemies be their own enemies.

There's other benefits as well, such as the "nuclear" deterrent.
Once everyone knows you have a bomb big enough to destroy any target at any time, anywhere, those that don't share that capability might be a little more shy about aggressive overtures.
In this case, at least a portion of it, we have an Information Bomb.
"Piss us off and you'll have all your own citizens at the gates with pitchforks and torches, all thanks to a surprising social media campaign".

Why send in soldiers when you can get a Nation's own population to do the dirty work for you, courtesy of some strategic social networking kicked off by a 10,000 fake accounts that can be managed by just 100 people with keyboards?
Fun, yes?

...Letting the whole world know you can do this, like the spy example builds mythology too.
Rumors get started about mind control, mind readers, smart-dust drone clouds, and other spooky stuff and none of these things need to exist, even if they do exist at all to have an effect or be effective as a bogeyman.

Wow...you usually argue that the simplest answer is most likely. Turns out that you are quite the conspiracy theorist after all! Could be true--and some of it would fall under psyops principle--but a lot of folk would see that as pretty paranoid!

Then again, I wouldn't put it past Russia. It's hardly that explosive, however, it seems to me. Maybe it's what it purports to be? A leak? One that can potentially raise public awareness?

WhiteAlice

smurfy
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

We aren't allowed to use Shill and Troll as a direct reference to someone on ATS. But if you realise, or think someone is just that, don't engage them.

edit on 25-2-2014 by smurfy because: Text.

Yep. It's done on other sites though. If I suspect someone, though, I go after them in other ways. I'd never turn my back on them. I'd rather trying to beat them at their own game but, then again, that's why "issues with authority" was a frequent descriptor in my high school days.

Problems with authority, one Americas oldest and favored past times since 1776.

I love it when somebody tells me I have a problem with authority, like it is somehow an insult. I just look them right in the eyes and say " your GD right I do". I love to see the look on their faces when they realize I am proud of it.

Char-Lee
Studies have shown every human is "inherently manipulable" no matter what we think we are. The persons who starred your post are living in the dark.
The fact that you used a term "Everyone is a troll?" that has nothing to do with the OP content says a lot.

edit on 25-2-2014 by Char-Lee because: sp

Seeing as I starred the post you replied to I thought I deserved to defend why!!!
So let me first say that I certainly don't live in the dark!

Secondly, to say "studies have shown that every human etc" is probably the biggest generalisation I have ever heard!!!
Unless of course you can link us to these studies that involved "every human"!

Thirdly, I find it a little ironic that you conclude this is fact "no matter what we think we are" points to you being "inherently manipulable"!

I'd say in your defence that seeing as you were starred abundantly for such a generalisation, it maybe relevant to say that there are definitely some here at ATS who are "inherently manipulable"!


Peace.

reply to post by Cito


Never mind the techniques, Google IMO are an integral arm of the surveillance network, with no need to comply to the NSA. As a commercial enterprise they are very dubious.

If I read the article correctly and Edward Snowden is responsible for this material getting out, then he's a Hero and deserves a medal. The American people owe him.

I believe it doesn't matter if this was purposefully released or not.

It is out here now, and you are all stuck in the same state of mind.
What is the best thing we can do all of the time, with all our time?

Change ourselves.

They want you to look outward from yourselves to keep your attention on problems that wouldn't exist if we wouldn't waste energy on them. Like f.ex. this information makes one waste time and energy on something that will only get one so far. And to what gain? Maybe expose some here and there, then what?

How do we not waste energy on them?

"Mature" and get to know yourself and thus everyone else better and thus overcome the baits they lay out, and so, their responses to threads will remain hunched and the truth will become more noticeable.

This is how we change ourselves by becoming more caring, happy, loving.

This makes one a better judge of character even through the internet and a better judge of what is true and what is not.

I'm not saying don't read stuff like this or new science findings and whatnot, just...make the best of it with those simple traits I mentioned.

Be aware of things, get to know yourself better (your inner self) and be a better judge of character, be more caring, happy and loving and thus change yourselves.

Not words of judgement but rather those of motivation and strength.

Char-Lee
I have a degree in Social and Behavioral Science. What you need to do is look into this a little more. We like to think we are special and cannot be manipulated, but there is No human who cannot be manipulated.

edit on 25-2-2014 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

This in itself is an attempt at manipulation...
Attempting to get everybody to agree that the colossal generalisation you keep making of "every human" being manipulable as true because you have a degree in behavioural traits!!!

I have some news for you... we as a species are not inclined to be the same throughout, especially mentally, to which manipulation would have to occur, and we are not as easily studied by such "bodies" as if we are a bunch of rats in a lab!!!

I'm afraid to tell you that the people (thousands at most) who are studied are not the average for 6billion+ especially when taking into account geographical status...
"We studied X amount of people in area Y and decided that one size fits all"...
In reality studies a flawed at best... rigged at worse, thanks to things such as the discussion at hand!


"Nothing to see here folks, watch gladiators... Your government has everything under control"!!!


Peace.

The GUT

Wow...you usually argue that the simplest answer is most likely. Turns out that you are quite the conspiracy theorist after all! Could be true--and some of it would fall under psyops principle--but a lot of folk would see that as pretty paranoid!

Then again, I wouldn't put it past Russia. It's hardly that explosive, however, it seems to me. Maybe it's what it purports to be? A leak? One that can potentially raise public awareness?

It depends on the subject.

For instance, when it comes to pushing social compliance toward a desired outcome, it's not a very difficult thing to accomplish.
Most people are very receptive to environmental/social cues and influences.
People quite often do what their friends do, like what their friends like, etc.
All one needs do is influence a few of those in any network and it can cascade.

It's easier to influence large groups of interconnected media consumers than it is individuals. Where such has (historically) been most often leveraged for product and services marketing, clandestine and political agencies have caught on to the value such a campaign theater offers compared the cost of implementation.

As noted, one could employ 100 people to manage 100 fake accounts across any number of social media platforms each for a total of 10,000 fake accounts that enmass can sway public opinion in plugging any message.
How many more people and how much more effectively can one pressure influence if 1000 people herding fake accounts around were employed?

How many revolutions and coups have we seen in the last 5 years?
Isn't it interesting how Social Media is portrayed in most of these as a major contributing factor?
Isn't it interesting how many of these are at least a little bit more favorable to Western interests than the former incumbent regime?
I'm just stirring the pot in speculation on that part, but, hey, motive, opportunity and means ...

reply to post by CharlieSpeirs

Thirdly, I find it a little ironic that you conclude this is fact "no matter what we think we are" points to you being "inherently manipulable"!

Unless of course you can link us to these studies that involved "every human"!

Not necessary, you only have to know a little about the human brain. I certainly could prove this point but it is pretty much off topic.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite



Of all the points of view presented in this thread I think yours makes the most sense, and comes a lot closer to the truth than most.

It seems likely to me to be the best use of time and resources, and the most effective method.

Why waste time and money and such, when you could simply foment outrage in their own populace at the drop of a hat?

All the while letting them know you can drop the hat anytime you want.

Bribery is now and always has been a very effective tool against the corrupt.

reply to post by CharlieSpeirs

and we are not as easily studied by such "bodies" as if we are a bunch of rats in a lab!!!

Wish it were so.

AliceBleachWhite
How many revolutions and coups have we seen in the last 5 years?

Isn't it interesting how Social Media is portrayed in most of these as a major contributing factor?

Isn't it interesting how many of these are at least a little bit more favorable to Western interests than the former incumbent regime?

I'm just stirring the pot in speculation on that part, but, hey, motive, opportunity and means ...

Haha, you're pretty adorable when your inner-conspiracy theorist comes out to play.

Yes, somebody wants to see wide-scale revolt. Not so sure that "Western interests" are the endgame, but, imo, eventual implementation of the globalist wet dream.

If this leak is straight up, then I do think it can help folk wake up to the degree of psychological warfare/social engineering techniques and thusly counter the double-reverse-child psychology you outline as possibly being used against us the masses. I see it, too, but maybe a tad differently as to how it's being played out.

Take bombing Syria for example. I'm pretty sure that the efforts of bloggers--and even ATS to a degree maybe--put out enough counter-response to MSM spin that the people said, "Hell No!"

Like I said earlier: I believe it to be important information, if we use it--and help others to use it--wisely.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Well I'm not going to cause a rift over this and appear to be just contradictory in my response...
But I tend to disagree that we only need to know "little" about the brain...
Who's brain exactly???...
A 5 year old schizophrenia sufferer?
Or a 55 year old philosopher with no mental health history?
Maybe a tribal leader of the Amazon who has never been visited by us "civilised" folk?

With all that said, I feel this is very much on topic... If this "leak" is all found to be a load of cods wallop tomorrow morning then all saying "this is our proof" including myself, will have in fact been manipulated!
But I cannot agree that this is true of every human!

Peace.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Well I agree whole-heartedly and am thankful you can at least see what I meant by this!

I don't intend on seeming argumentative, even on a conspiratorial debating website, I just hope others see a different perspective as I try to do with each comment I read through!

Peace.

reply to post by The GUT


I'm surprised keyboard and hot-topic punching hasn't been employed in the prison systems as an early-release incentive:

"Here's your topics for the day on these websites under these user names, and these are the positions to push ... or you can go break rocks, hoe the fields, or shovel asphalt".

All the computers could be dirt cheap dumb-terminals locked down and traffic regulated through proxies to keep the inmates from surfing entertainment sites, to keep them on task at only the approved sites they're suppose to plug.

How many people are in Prison in the US? 100,000?

*sigh*

Now that I've posted it here, some genius in the readership is going to soon have an entire prison workforce at their disposal to promote and sway public opinion.

Well, if anyone does, I'd appreciate a consulting fee; 5 figures.
Me no cheap, and it's well worth it.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


It's too bad we haven't realized its potential. Social media must be set free by the Military and Intelligence agencies that created and shaped it.

But that's OK. I think we're still a long way from eliminating redactions on public documents for "national security" reasons. Well, if the territory I'm living in is a nation, it's my security and I want to know everything.

We now really live in InfoWars, whether we like it or not. Corporations are ramping up data collection, ready for the tsunami of post-Big Data shock, real Big Data analysis coming our way. But the thing is, the informational economy has been strategic for a long time and the Five Eyes (+1) have capitalized on their advantage.

However, no one has quite catched up to them. There's so much information thrown around.

I have felt for a while that lots of threads looked too perfectly scripted. For example, when it's a really sensitive thread, the OP information is rarely addressed. The second and third posters get a few comments and for a whole page the content gets ignored.

Well, so what is the nature of this dangerous content?

What gives chills to the spines of spooks?

Secrets.

What hasn't the hacker community done, besides being a voyeur to this worldwide phenomenon that is the Internet?

Revealed them. Identities, financial records, quirks, loves, hates. The insecurities, the personal messaging, the plans and fears of everyone they care to reveal. I'll bet there's a lot to find. Who to start with?

I would say there is a terrible imbalance in power (the Internet being the "great equalizer"). There's people with a lot and I mean a lot of money and possessions. They have barely budged in this regard for centuries. They're also the people most closely associated with the "higher circles" of power, however you want to put it. They certainly hold secrets. In fact, they're the very groundwork of "covert action". You can find them in any region and they invariably associate. Somehow, year in and year out, they persist, and their wealth grows. They say there's absolutely no difference between me and them... Publicly. Privately, they hate me. They hate this virus that's spreading around Earth, uncontrollable, this disease called "overpopulation" that never seems to go away...

TL;DR: Oh, but I'm rambling. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS, MOVE ALONG. Don't spend too much time reading those slides! You might... LEARN something.

reply to post by dreamingawake


wow, thank you for drawing my attention to this.. I almost think that exposure to these "tactics" should be a part of the ATS terms of use agreement, where it'd say "If you are resorting to these logical fallacies and manipulative methods of debate, you will be made an example of" haha. because then, why would it even matter if they were an "agent" or not?

at any rate, I do want to add that these tactics remind me a little TOO much of what I know about Scientology.. I've never been a part of that mess, but I have gone through the "leaked documents" which are supposed to contain all of the "really heavy information" people pay thousands of dollars for.. these tactics are essentially what Scientologists learn to be aware of, and use for their own ends..

I don't think that it's a bad idea to be AWARE of these aspects of debate and social psychology, but i do find it disturbing when people manipulate others with it (i.e. Marketing..)

the understanding of these aspects of psychology and the tactics are nothing new, but a mainstream awareness of them very much is..

who knows?

ultimately that could be a huge leap in progress..!?

(if you are really interested in looking into these documents and making the connections, i think it is very interesting, and might do a thread linking Scientology to a LOT of modern disinformation tactics, but unless you have an extremely inquisitive and humorous mind, these might also make you a tad enraged haha.. don't say i didn't warn you..)

From the horse's mouth..