Deciphering the Pagan Stones

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Logarock

Did the Israelites take anything specific with them when they left Egypt? Were they told to bring anything?

Well as the story goes the Zara Jews were run out of Egypt prior to the rest being reduced to slavery. They spread around the Mediterranean area and set up shop.

As far as the rest what do you mean about bringing anything?

I'm hoping for a clue. I was wondering if there was anything in the old testament about them being told to bring discs and a spear in the shape of a Z (well maybe not quite that, but I'm hopeful, lol!).
These Zara Jews are worthy of a closer look. Something's niggling at me that Cinge's father was called Eber, but it's not sunk in yet.

a reply to: beansidhe

Not that I am aware of.

The Milesian were Zaraites apparently.

Tara may be cognate of Zara.

a reply to: Logarock

Ah, that's perfect, thanks Log. I'm trying to get a timeframe in my head and work out what happened when. If Milesians=Zaraites, then the Tuatha de were shortly before that, and the Israelites' exodus shortly after.

I read up on Eber a little, I'll add it in asap

Eber was a Milesian, son of Ir, son of Mil, son of Bile (there was a Pict King Bil/Bile), son of Breogan -Breogan still revered in Spain today, here's his statue in Galicia, north west Spain:

Eventually, they (the Gaels/Goidels in the Lebor Gabala) sail to Iberia and conquer it. There, one of their leaders, Breogán, founds a city called Brigantia and builds a great tower. From the top of the tower, his son Íth glimpses Ireland. The Gaels—including some of Breogán's sons—sail to Ireland from Brigantia and take it from the Tuatha Dé Danann, the Irish pagan gods. Brigantia likely refers to A Coruña in Galicia (which was then known as Brigantium)[1] and Breogán's tower is likely based on the Tower of Hercules (which was built at A Coruña by the Romans).

wiki

Built - obviously - by the Romans. But why did they build it?

The Tower of Hercules (Galician and Spanish: Torre de Hércules) is an ancient Roman lighthouse on a peninsula about 2.4 kilometers (1.5 mi) from the centre of A Coruña, Galicia, in north-western Spain. Until the 20th century, the tower itself was known as the "Farum Brigantium".

The tower is known to have existed by the 2nd century, built or perhaps rebuilt under Trajan, possibly on foundations following a design that was Phoenician in origin...

The position of the lighthouse is not understood since it strongly favours an approach from the northwest. It does not provide a guide to safe harbour to vessels approaching either up the West coast of the Iberian peninsula, nor along the Rias of the north coast. This would imply that the lighthouse was built to satisfy the needs of regular traffic coming in from the Atlantic, perhaps taking a Westerly route from the Cap Gris Nez area to avoid the Bay of Biscay or direct from Ireland or South West England....

The 'Phoenicians' built a lighthouse which has Ireland in it's sight, and the Romans rebuild it, despite the fact it does not provide a good vantage point and make sure to leave their mark. Hmm. I'm not convinced.

A Coruna is interesting in its etymolgy:

There is no clear evidence as to what word the name derives from. It seems to be from Crunia, of unknown origin and meaning. At the time of Ferdinand II of León (12th century) the name Crunia was documented for the first time.

Cruithne anyone?

A more poetic explanation sustains that "Coruña" derives from Gaelic (the language of Celtic tribes) "Cork Orunnach", which would mean "The harbour of the brave men". However, this explanation could have some relation to the Lebor Gabála Érenn.

Another possibility is that the name means simply "The Crown". The Galician word for crown is 'coroa' but the Irish word is 'coróin' (cor-oyn) with a dative form of gcoróin (gor-oyn), similar to the old attested form The Groyne. This form would seem closer to Coruña, and its dative form nearly identical to "Groyne" in pronunciation. (Groyne being its name previously).

More wiki

originally posted by: beansidhe
Eber was a Milesian, son of Ir, son of Mil, son of Bile (there was a Pict King Bil/Bile), son of Breogan -Breogan still revered in Spain today, here's his statue in Galicia, north west Spain:

Hi Beans ***waves***

Son of "Ir"?
as in "Ireland" maybe?
G

originally posted by: beansidhe

...I'm hoping for a clue. I was wondering if there was anything in the old testament about them being told to bring discs and a spear in the shape of a Z (well maybe not quite that, but I'm hopeful, lol!).
These Zara Jews are worthy of a closer look. Something's niggling at me that Cinge's father was called Eber, but it's not sunk in yet.

Could the "Z" rod simply be a literal pictorial/iconic representation of "Zara"?
G

a reply to: beansidhe
In Hebrew:

Zar is crown

Zara is seed

Zara is Rising

I'd never heard about the zaraites but right away it piqued my interest.

New British coins found!

Coins

Three Roman coins found predate the Roman invasion.

a reply to: Logarock

Oh wow, good find!

Look at the centre coin, celtic through and through - you can even see the horse and the writing. And still they insist these are Roman?? I don't get it.

Digging through a cave in central Britain, archaeologists uncovered 26 ancient gold and silver coins belonging to the Corieltauvi tribe, a group of people that lived in Britain before the Roman conquest.

Is it indeed, crowndust? (Your Hebrew name).

The same as gcoroin /Groyne / Coruna?
I should read through the books in the Lebor Gabala again and pay attention to see if there are any crown references, particularly to Breogan.

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Hello! Welcome back from Pictland - I was up there myself last week.
Ir -Ireland -it seems likely, now that you say it! The Romans called it Hibernia, as we know.

Also interesting (to me) in my ancient online Hebrew dictionary is that the ancient Hebrew for man is ysh or eesh. So Irish (Ir eesh) are Ir-men. Coincidence?

Could the Z represent the letter Z? You are a master in spotting the obvious! Yes - it could. That had never occurred to me. Maybe Log would know this, but I don't know if they called themselves Zaraites, or if they used a Z?

a reply to: beansidhe

Those coins look very promising. Kind of Boudica's area central to east England. And they're in great condition. I've dug up Victorian coins in far worse condition. Seems that someone stored them in the cave hoping to go back for them.

a reply to: beansidhe

Zardust or Zardusht is Zoroaster. Zar is gold in old avestan, dusht is camel. Zoroaster is a greek transliteration.

Sar btw is Prince in Hebrew, and the Z and S sounds were interchangeably used sometimes, like in Zion and Sion.

I'm not sure but I think Czar, Tsar, and Ceasar derive from Zar

etymology online

And Pliny derives his cognomen from caesaries "head of hair," because the future dictator was born with a full one. Caesarian section may come directly from caesus.

Hair is also called a crown, it is glory to women, glory is radiance like the sun, and as I showed before Zera is Rising (as the sun)

The sun is gold, crowns are gold, zar is gold/crown/rising(sun)/seed

Not to keep pointing to my sig thread, but I talk about the head/seed/sun connection

Nezer is also crown, also the same word is Nazarite, and possibly Nazarene.

a reply to: beansidhe


They were saying only a few were Roman but were pre invasion Roman. Remember for some reason some of the British tribes were paying tribute to Rome before they invaded. Why I haven't looked into.

a reply to: zardust

Another aspect of Zara can possibly be seen in the "Red Hand" like the red hand of Ulster. I know the story about the guy cutting off his hand however when Zara was born his hand came out first so they ties a red cord to his wrist to make a note of that fact. But then the baby pulled its hand back into the womb and his brother came out first. So while Zara was first born on a technicality his brother came out fully first. There is more to this but I am running out of time.

a reply to: Logarock

Hmm. From a standard source:

Caesar makes his first tentative excursion to Britain in August of 55 BC. He lands on the coast of Kent, meeting considerable opposition from the cavalry and war chariots of the neighbouring Celtic chieftains. After staying long enough to demonstrate to the British the strength of a Roman legion, he returns in September to Gaul.
During the winter Caesar builds 600 new ships. He sails again, in July of 54 BC, with five legions and 2000 cavalry. They are sufficient to bring him north of the Thames into the territory of Cassivellaunus, the tribal chieftain chosen to lead the British forces. Caesar easily captures the Celtic leader's primitive stronghold, and removes from it a large herd of cattle. But by the time he sails away again, in September, little has been achieved - except that Cassivellaunus has agreed to a treaty and has promised an annual tribute. It is unlikely that any tribute is paid.

History World

I'll look into it a bit more.

I'm still thinking about Milesians, and I'm pretty sure that we're on the right track.
I've been reading this man's study into the likelihood of the Lebor Gabala being true, and it's pretty compelling (ie he agrees with most of our points, and makes many other excellent ones). Well worth a read.

This paper reassembles that chronology and compares it to the timelines of literarily-attested “event-tokens”and archaeologically-known innovations. It concludes that restored Irish proto-history genuinely preserves authentic Bronze-Age memories that precisely fit the geography and chronology of known genetic, linguistic, technological and
cultural shifts.

www.anseanchas.com...

The Irish manuscripts said that the Gaels under Gaedil‟s aged grandson Sru fled Egypt ahead of the revenge of Pharaoh “Tuir”. Seqenenra Taa was the re-emergent Amun pharaoh who began the expulsion of the Hyksos several generations after their arrival. By Egyptian and Irish chronologies Taa (c.1558-1554 BC) and Tuir (1540 BC) are nearly contemporary. Taa was unknown to Manetho, so if the Irish “Tuir” meant Taa, the identification was not possibly a Christian-era embellishment. Unless Jerome‟s early-12th-centuryThuoris was meant, the Irish identification of Taa as Tuir can only have been a genuine contemporary identification or another in an improbable series of pure coincidences.

I liked that line - 'another in an improbable series of pure coincidences'.

The Tuatha de Danaan, whom he associates with the Denyen/sea people, had their seat of power at Tara:





Yet another in a series of pure coincidences

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: zardust

Another aspect of Zara can possibly be seen in the "Red Hand" like the red hand of Ulster. I know the story about the guy cutting off his hand however when Zara was born his hand came out first so they ties a red cord to his wrist to make a note of that fact. But then the baby pulled its hand back into the womb and his brother came out first. So while Zara was first born on a technicality his brother came out fully first. There is more to this but I am running out of time.

The Red Hand is traced back to the O'Neils', back to Niall of the 9 hostages, from the Irish King lists. The O'Neils still have it on their crest:



Niall, incidentally, was St Columba's great, great grandfather for a bonus trivia point.

Academic scholars are unsure of when exactly the Milesian invasion occurred. Some estimate it at 1000 bc, others as early as 3500 bc. Despite the difficulty with verifying traditions and legends there is good evidence to prove the existence of the Milesians as a Celtic race of people. The descendants of the Milesians include 'Niall of the Nine Hostages' (from whom all O'Neills are descended), Conn of the Hundred Battles, and Ugani Mor. It is based on this pedigree that the Milesians are regarded as the true fathers of the Irish people.

Ireland information.com

Niall was of Milesian stock, of Goidel Glas fame, so your Zara theory might hold water

Incidentally, in Ulster, near Tara (of Tuatha fame) -actually, Tara/Torah ?? - just a thought - a curious thing was found:

Emain Macha is one of the most cited places in ancient Irish literature. Its history dates as far back as the 7th to 4th centuries BC and its final ruling dynasty fell during the fifth century AD. People occupied this site from the Neolithic to the Middle Ages. Most of the construction took place between 400 -100 BC when a series of roundhouses and large enclosures was built. The main area consists of a bank and a ditched enclosure about 1000 feet across. There is undisputable evidence that Emain Macha was a major ceremonial center during prehistoric times, as well as the political and spiritual capital of that area during the Iron Age. Within one of the structures was found the skull of a barbary ape from N. Africa, the most exotic prehistoric archeological find in Ireland, and interpreted as evidence of a prestige gift exchange.

Emain Macha

a reply to: zardust

Which leads to an interesting point, that Ireland was an important gold mining country in the Bronze age:

Ireland has a long association with mining. Records of mining date back to the Bronze Age (ca 2000 B.C.) when southwest Ireland was an important copper producer and alluvial gold was also worked for the production of gold artefacts.

Mining in Ireland

With Cornwall's tin and Ireland's gold, those Romans must have been keen to incorporate the islands into their empire. I would guess they were much better known of than we are led to believe.

This is worthy of Alan Wilson:

We know next to nothing about King Gede for the reasons discussed earlier, i.e. lack of documentation, yet, in spite of that, and against all the odds, we may have found his final resting-place. High on a rise in the eastern end of the Ochil hills can be found the remains of a cairn, shown on the Ordnance Survey maps as ‘Cairn Geddes’. (O.S. Landranger 58. Grid Ref. NO.120.131). Gede, along with its other forms such as Ged, Geddes, Geddie and Geddis is a very old name in Scotland and is possibly derived from the Gaelic word ‘gead’, meaning a measure of land. It may be a ‘Q’ Celtic version of the Pictish word ‘Pit’ or ‘Pett’, meaning the same thing The remains of this cairn are rather sparse. A small heap of stones about five feet high (one metre fifty) has been gathered in the middle of the cairn by occasional visitors, but by far the greater part was robbed for building material sometime in the early 19th century, apparently for the construction of drains and dykes.

It was noted at the time of the plunder (some might say desecration), that the cairn was found to contain “a rude stone coffin”. Sadly, no archaeological work appears to have been carried out at the site and no mention was made of any bones or metal or other items of interest being discovered. There is every likelihood anyway that, given the landowner’s obvious disrespect for the past, all such items would have been discarded as worthless or simply pocketed as souvenirs. What happened to the coffin is not recorded, but it is not impossible that the labourers reburied it when the bulk of the stonework had been removed. Let us hope so.

Nearby, to the south of the cairn, nestles lonely Loch Whirr, whose scored rocks bear testimony to the rigours of the Ice Age and whose calm waters now provide a pleasant home for a family of swans. Whirr is an unusual name, and its descent may be of some interest to students of Toponymy, (place-name research). There is little doubt that ‘Whirr’ has derived from the Scottish pronunciation of a Perthshire Gaelic word ‘Uir’, meaning a grave, mound or tomb, in the same manner that a Scottish mother’s instruction to her bairns to ‘Wheesht!’ has come from the Gaelic command, ‘Isd’, meaning ‘Be Quiet!’ Loch Whirr simply means the loch of the burial mound. At mid-day, as the mid-winter sun gradually sets, Loch Whirr turns golden when observed from the cairn. We can assume that this spectacular phenomenon was taken into the consideration of the people who raised the mound, for the site was obviously chosen with some care. Although it sits only 900 feet (278 metres) above sea level, the views from this ancient tomb are absolutely stunning.

It sounds good (Gud) to me!

The Sons of Scotland