Deciphering the Pagan Stones

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: beansidhe

Yes the Labrys/Labia is the entrance into the womb/Labyrinth. I was reading about the labyrinth being aniconic, in this case the Labrys is aniconic of the labyrinth.

Did you guys ever "settle" on the "beastie"? I'm not sure if the Hippocampus was ever talked about, that was in that last paragraph about Amun and spirals.

Hi, no the beastie is still an enigma. We did talk about hippocamps a while ago, they were an Etruscan favourite and there are a few good examples of them on the stones:

a reply to: zardust

If we are talking about the mystical door being the 4 points I'd point out that the 4th letter in Hebrew is Dalet, which means "door". Also the 4 cardinal points relate to the 4 heads of the 4 cherubim that are associated with the theophany. These relate to the 4 head tribes of Israel around the tabernacle. This is a reflection of the zodiac. Each of these 4 points are gates, or barriers between realms.

Source

There is a good argument for that being represented by the cross itself. We know the Picts used the Tau and the Chi Rho:





Danbones also argued that the wheel cross could be used as a navigational tool - which it could be -and so the four cardinal points could easily be represented here.

a reply to: zardust

Actually, here's a gorgeous example of the feminine labyrinth, from one of the Meigle stones:

a reply to: beansidhe

That looks like Hathor to me.

a reply to: beansidhe

Yes the cross is also representative of the door, as the decent into death/labyrinth/womb/tomb. It also represents the whole cycle, as it represents the sun going through the zodiac.

That Z-Rod and snake combo just makes me think of the Bronze Serpent

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ka53528131.gif[/atsimg]

2 Kings 18:4 talks about Israel burning incense to Nehushtan, the bronze serpent. It doesn't say where it was kept, but I believe it was kept in the doorway to the inner court. That was as far as the commoner could go. Only priests could enter through to the inner court. So it represents the 2nd doorway. I'm just free styling here, I don't have any real evidence other than that

a reply to: zardust

They're interesting, these stones, as to what they evoke in each of us, aren't they?

Was the Bronze Serpent a Hebrew thing?

a reply to: beansidhe

Yes and no. It goes back older than Israel, but there is an incidence in the wilderness where the people were dying by the bites of fiery serpents, and Moses fashioned a bronze serpent that people looked upon for healing. In that picture above it has John 3:14 where Jesus likens himself to this bronze serpent.

I go over some of the history of this in The Cult of the Bronze Serpent

BTW those entwined hippocampii (?) are a caduceus (to me at least), which is the duel serpents around a pole. Though some distinguish between the Rod of Ascpelius and the Staff of Hermes, there are some interesting overlaps between the 2 figures, and I believe they are actually the same (Hermes and Asceplius), at least in the Father-son sense. The mysteries are heavily associated with the two figures.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: zardust

They're interesting, these stones, as to what they evoke in each of us, aren't they?

Was the Bronze Serpent a Hebrew thing?

My opinion on this is that snake, to these basically recently escaped encultrated Egyptians, was a play on Set the evil bad god. Yahweh was trying to break the mindset that He was this destructive and bad news dude Set. Its actually rather complicated and may have went right over their heads as it were. So the sign of Set, a thing they had come to see as evil, was actually healing them. They certainly missed the implications as the relic had to be destroyed later.

It is also believed by some that Set was simply the word and image for the line of Seth and naturally because of this was vilified by the Sumerian decedent royal lines. This was do to fighting between the Hammite line and the Shem/Melchizedek line for legitimate royal line on the earth. Jesus was from this line.......and as the symbol of Set/Seth was lifted up in the wilderness......and now you know the rest of the story.

originally posted by: beansidhe

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: beansidhe

Yes the Labrys/Labia is the entrance into the womb/Labyrinth. I was reading about the labyrinth being aniconic, in this case the Labrys is aniconic of the labyrinth.

Did you guys ever "settle" on the "beastie"? I'm not sure if the Hippocampus was ever talked about, that was in that last paragraph about Amun and spirals.

Hi, no the beastie is still an enigma. We did talk about hippocamps a while ago, they were an Etruscan favourite and there are a few good examples of them on the stones:

My opinion on these is that they are fairly simple stylized horses.....as on land so by sea. These sea horse cultures were very good at transporting the horse over water for cavalry. Its a symbol of land and sea power, mobility and nobility. I don't see a great deal of the esoteric in them.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: zardust

They're interesting, these stones, as to what they evoke in each of us, aren't they?

Was the Bronze Serpent a Hebrew thing?

My opinion on this is that snake, to these basically recently escaped encultrated Egyptians, was a play on Set the evil bad god. Yahweh was trying to break the mindset that He was this destructive and bad news dude Set. Its actually rather complicated and may have went right over their heads as it were. So the sign of Set, a thing they had come to see as evil, was actually healing them. They certainly missed the implications as the relic had to be destroyed later.

It is also believed by some that Set was simply the word and image for the line of Seth and naturally because of this was vilified by the Sumerian decedent royal lines. This was do to fighting between the Hammite line and the Shem/Melchizedek line for legitimate royal line on the earth. Jesus was from this line.......and as the symbol of Set/Seth was lifted up in the wilderness......and now you know the rest of the story.

The sumerians were Semites weren't they??

I find this a fascinating take on Set/Yhwh.

a reply to: Logarock

Oh I see, a metaphor? Thanks, that makes it a bit clearer.
For some reason I don't see the Pict snake in that light, I'm thinking it's either a Dan motif or a celestial/astronomical symbol (to Zardust).

originally posted by: zardust

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: zardust

They're interesting, these stones, as to what they evoke in each of us, aren't they?

Was the Bronze Serpent a Hebrew thing?

My opinion on this is that snake, to these basically recently escaped encultrated Egyptians, was a play on Set the evil bad god. Yahweh was trying to break the mindset that He was this destructive and bad news dude Set. Its actually rather complicated and may have went right over their heads as it were. So the sign of Set, a thing they had come to see as evil, was actually healing them. They certainly missed the implications as the relic had to be destroyed later.

It is also believed by some that Set was simply the word and image for the line of Seth and naturally because of this was vilified by the Sumerian decedent royal lines. This was do to fighting between the Hammite line and the Shem/Melchizedek line for legitimate royal line on the earth. Jesus was from this line.......and as the symbol of Set/Seth was lifted up in the wilderness......and now you know the rest of the story.

The sumerians were Semites weren't they??

I find this a fascinating take on Set/Yhwh.

Yes some of them were. As the story goes it was understood from the flood anyway that the Shemites carried the Adamic authority however some of Hams decedents challenged this idea i.e. Gilgamesh/Nimrod. Legend has it that Shem ended up killing Nimrod and cutting his body into parts and this is recorded in the Egyptian as Set and Horus. Long story short Shem had to fall back to Salem or Jerusalem after try by force to stop the flow of paganism and worse that was spreading from the Mesopotamian kingdoms. Apparently Shem lost a major battle recorded in the Egyptian as the war of 400 or something like that.

The Shem royal icon was said to be a man standing between two animals holding their horn or head. There is one of these on a Pict stone posted one page back. This icon was even found in very early China icons suggesting that Shem went far afield in his hay days trying to stop the Hamitic influence which were the corruption of the zodiac, interaction with the "dead", shamanism, ect and the spread of influence of the other "royal" lines and their wars of unification. One of the more notable corruptions was of the Orion icon into the Hercules icon being made into a subjugator god/kind idea.



Here is a more modern Hittite example but it goes back into the early cylinder seals. The below Narmer Platte is a classical early use of Orion/Hercules man unification icon.



Above Narmer of the first Egyptian dynasty out of Mesopotamia.

Here below used by the ancient Mixteca.



Apparently the zodiac and the star icons had a totally different meaning than what we know as the pagan corruptions. As it goes for example the Orion icon is a Christ icon, the coming King, but was corrupted into a vain self fulfilling image and justification for world conquest and subjugation by this line of demigods.

This is Nergal.



The Deities of Ancient Mesopotamia

I'm not suggesting that this is also Nergal:



But (if there is more evidence that bowed things on a stick are Gods) it could be that this doghead is a god symbol.
Nergal, incidentally was the God of the Underworld, a bit like Cernunnos, I suppose.

a reply to: Logarock

Everything in that post was fascinating, but I had no idea about the earlier zodiac. I wonder what it used to be?

The Shem royal icon was said to be a man standing between two animals holding their horn or head. There is one of these on a Pict stone posted one page back. This icon was even found in very early China icons suggesting that Shem went far afield in his hay days trying to stop the Hamitic influence which were the corruption of the zodiac, interaction with the "dead", shamanism, ect and the spread of influence of the other "royal" lines and their wars of unification.

Would this count? (Top left)

Anubis connection?

Anubis (/əˈnuːbəs/ or /əˈnjuːbəs/;[2] Ancient Greek: Ἄνουβις) is the Greek name[3] for a jackal-headed god associated with mummification and the afterlife in ancient Egyptian religion. According to the Akkadian transcription in the Amarna letters, Anubis' name was vocalized in Egyptian as Anapa.[4] The oldest known mention of Anubis is in the Old Kingdom pyramid texts, where he is associated with the burial of the pharaoh.[5] At this time, Anubis was the most important god of the dead but he was replaced during the Middle Kingdom by Osiris.

a reply to: beansidhe

Everything in that post was fascinating, but I had no idea about the earlier zodiac. I wonder what it used to be?

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Look down the list of former constalations... Find hippocampus./seahorse...

Makes one wonder if the equator has moved...

a reply to: Wifibrains

What, a dog-headed God of the Underworld? Why would he be connected? (Tee hee!)
Yes, Anubis is a good idea.

So the seahorse was a constellation in 1754? And presumably long before then, too. I've got a funny feeling that's what the beastie is; it just doesn't appear in stories or in any other location or culture, and it should. It's on nearly every stone, everyone there would have known what it was.

a reply to: beansidhe

Wiki tends to agree!

Many of these constellations were recognized by authorities for long periods of time, even centuries in many cases, which means they have historical value

So where is the history?

Vatican archives most probably.

a reply to: beansidhe

The "Set animal" is a dog like animal also.

a reply to: beansidhe

Did you know the hippocampus in the brain, which is named after the hippocampus/seahorse, has as one of its main functions

SPATIAL MEMORY AND NAVIGATION