i didnt want to be "that" guy, but here it is, the reason the collapse is happening.

HanzHenry

Snsoc

onequestion
Lets add some perspective to this conversation before it gets out of hand....

Asian Immigrants To U.S. Now Surpass Hispanics

About 430,000 Asians, or 36 percent of all new immigrants, arrived in the U.S. in 2010, according to the latest census data. That's compared to about 370,000, or 31 percent, who were Hispanic.

You know why this doesnt get attention, because they are not preparing us for integration with ASIA.

That, and the elite can't exploit Asians to racially divide us, because:

a.) There's little "white guilt" about Asians, and

b.) Asians generally do really well here, exposing the lie that "The Man" is keeping minorities down.

And the crime rate of Asians is much lower.. they don't REFUSE to learn/speak English

AND. they don't wave around foreign flags with a "we are taking this land back" attitude

Your post is a bunch of HOOEY.

The crime rate may be lower, but at least in So. California, Asian gangs are just getting started with murder & mayhem. It's been a FACT in New York for many years that Asian gangs are some of the most ruthless.

They had to make laws to force them to put their business signs at least partially in English and here, little Saigon is so insulated from society that they hardly know WHERE they are (nor would you if you were there)...and the same could be said for every little "Chinatown" across America.

I guarantee you, the only difference between these groups is DISCRETION---the Asians are good at it and they sure have you fooled.

The collapse may be due to the mentality of the modern American. In yesteryear, people would pick up a shovel and build reservoirs, canals and farms. They didn't ask, why don't this work. They made it work. Now the idea of a pothole in the road, in front of your house, is managed by people wondering why it hasn't been fixed. Saying its not my job to fill it and I'd get in trouble if I did it.

We are left in a country where the only permitted work is when you work at lining another filled pocket. A wealthy people do as they will, broken people bend to others will as their own. We may have to settle for less now but should refuse the emotional and physical exploit it now brings. Wake up or end up with no dream left

jacobe001
reply to post by oblvion

 

You are on the right track there Oblivion.
It is all part of their long term plan in this new Globalist Utopia. (New World Order)
What happens when all 6 billion people on earth are competing in the Global Markets with the technology we have?
There are many countries that they have yet to exploit.
Everyone will be making the same low wages (supply and demand) except the elites at the top.

They bailed out the banks and not the homeowners because they are (Banks) the linchpin in this grand master plan. They are doing "Gods Work"

Notice how many of the things we grow in this country get exported to say South America, and the same crops grown in South America and Mexico and so on come back to us?

It is to create interdependence among nations, the same reason for Multi Cultural Diversity and the influx of immigrants.

A New World Order where the "Rule of Law (Their rules) and "Not the rule of the Jungle" rules the day.
The old way was to rule by Nationalism.

The new way is to rule through Interconnected Multinational Corporations and Banks, where all countries are dependent on them.

The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.”
― David Rockefeller

“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
― David Rockefeller

“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years......It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government.

edit on 19-1-2014 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)

OK now we are getting some where.

This is what I was looking for, someone who sees the BIG picture, all encompassing world stage venue.

OK your scaring all the kiddos that think their world view matters, and just putting fires to the forges of those that saw this coming a mile away.

What do we do within this structured reality to make things right?

I have a plan, but every time it has been posted it got zero results.

If anything better is available, plz enlighten us all.

I beg you for a fix, I am pleading what besides forcing companies to pay a decent wage can work?

I don't like any corps, I use them they don't use me. How can we make them serve men, instead of in slaving them?

blindprometheus
The collapse may be due to the mentality of the modern American. In yesteryear, people would pick up a shovel and build reservoirs, canals and farms. They didn't ask, why don't this work. They made it work. Now the idea of a pothole in the road, in front of your house, is managed by people wondering why it hasn't been fixed. Saying its not my job to fill it and I'd get in trouble if I did it.

We are left in a country where the only permitted work is when you work at lining another filled pocket. A wealthy people do as they will, broken people bend to others will as their own. We may have to settle for less now but should refuse the emotional and physical exploit it now brings. Wake up or end up with no dream left

You are absolutely right, if I fixed a common problem the government is neglecting I would be punished. For instance the guy cleaning memorials in Washington during the shut down.

It only matters to these people repubs if the big business makes money off it, or dems if the unions get paid for doing it.

Not one single member of either party cares about right and wrong, they only care about money and political power.

reply to post by jacobe001


The planned collapse of the world economy would be a collapse to utter ruin where the economies would halt , people starve and death and chaos would result . With the populations of large cities feeling the collapse first where all human services would stop . Food industries would stop production . This is why the Globalist have moved food and industry to diverse places on the earth as well as cheap labor . Now we rely on foreign countries for our needs which means as a country we are held hostage by the Globalist and less likely to do what Russia is doing to them again .In Agenda 21 and the Protocols of Zion the Globalist plan is to take away our land and to place it into a land bank . Funny thing is that the supposed Hoax Protocols include the same things as the UN Agenda 21 which is a UN document that you can lay your hands on today and it is real .

reply to post by webedoomed


This post doesn't come off as racist at all. Instead of poking holes in someones theory, why don't you try to fill in the blanks and be constructive. Attacking someones personal view because it doesn't match yours is juvenile.

reply to post by oblvion


All good but then you are not really in favor of Capitalism are you because that is all about making profits and not much else is considered. Americans are certainly buying and more than ever because the products are so cheaply made they need to be replaced over and over again. You as a business owner in American have every right to do what ever you have to do to see a profit and every right to defend your methods. As long as people are buying, it's all good. America is after all about you, the business owner. The rest of us are here to make your life easier and be quiet when you cut our hours and pay. Say nothing when you bring in foreign workers or take your jobs to the Communists...Yay Capitalism. Yay Capitalists.

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by webedoomed

 

I would like to point out that this country was not built on illegal immigrants, they were legal.

I think there would be an entire coalition of indigenous tribes that would disagree with that statement... if the immigrants didn't shoot them and give them all small pox!

Immigrants, smmimigrants. Whether you want to class yourselves legal or illegal according to the native American population your all illegal. Get out of their land now. Oops I forget you like to cherry pick your time lines. You don't want to go back that far. All, and I mean all, the worlds problems stem from the numerous multi-millionaires and billionaires of all nationalities. Seriously look at the basics of life, food and suchlike, it costs exactly the same to grow any crop or animal as what it did 200years ago. Now the cruncher comes when mans greed gets added to the equation. Man is the one that puts a price on everything. If the man is reasonable he would go for small profit and happy customers. If he's greedy (like todays mega rich) he controls the market, though unfair manipulation or manufactured shortages, he can demand any price he wants to get. Simply remember back 20, 30, 40 or 50 years entrepeneurs would still make millions but over a period of years. Now, today they are not satisfied to wait so go for the quick kill to make millions in months(which they do) the only way they can do this is to take(notice I say take not make) from those below them. That my friends means the ordinary man on the street whatever class they are. This is done by the dubious practices(fully legal of course) as banking, insurance, mortgages the list is endless as a way to get your money into their pockets. The mega rich doesn't give a toss which country they F*** up because they can just up sticks and move to another country taking their ill gotten gains with them and in the process leave a broken population to fend for themselves. Anyone want to disagree just investigate how virtually all the mega rich people never, never leave the bulk of their money in the country they reside in, is all in the international world of the banks, not in any countries national bank at all.

While I agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem, and is a cause, I would also blame all the jobs that have been sent to China and elsewhere. We don't make any of our own stuff anymore, which doesn't make any sense, because if we did, we'd have enough jobs for American citizens, but also, the illegal ones too. We need to build factories and make most of the stuff on store shelves. Allow only 9% of the rest of the stuff on store shelves to be foreign. Then, the economy would flourish and many people could be happy happy happy. But they don't want that, you see. NO! They got us exactly where they want us.

Hello,
while I agree that America has been going to # for a long time, I think this would be educational for you, having read your stance on immigration. Have a nice day.

webedoomed
So I'm guessing by 17 thousand you mean 17 million, and by .gov you mean the United States government.

[snip]

Okay, so you're racist, and choose to focus on illegal immigration. Gotcha.

Why no mention of the federal reserve, or the declining EROI for domestic energy production?

Why no mention of the US going off the gold standard in the 70's, or spreading their military thin fighting resource wars?

Why no mention of the declining math and science scores compared to other developed nations, and the fall of tech related patents coming from the United States?

How are we supposed to take you seriously when you don't even understand basic economics, or US history?

When did illegal immigration start? Was this country not founded by immigrants?

Would you argue that slavery led to financial ruins generations ago by exploiting people for work with less resources needed to obtain it?

I think there's so many holes in your reasoning. It clearly points to insecurities, and pure ignorance.

Stop watching Fox News.

edit on 19-1-2014 by webedoomed because: (no reason given)

edit on 20/1/14 by masqua because: Removed personal attack

It's posts like this that keep us down. I would say the biggest drain on society right now is people who can not deal with adult conversation. This kind of childish response to a well written, well meaning post, should be detestable. Sadly this is what is "accepted" these days. Turning a normal argument into PC and Racism when none was implied does nothing but make you look like a complete ignorant fool in the eyes of people that want results and to solve problems.

There's nothing wrong with immigration, the thing that is broken is US policy and enforcement of it. Many times in our the History of America we have delt with mass immigration, Elise island, the Chinese integration and others, when the work force got flooded by immigrants and caused these exact same issues in the past, they were delt with, not with amnesty, not by kicking people out of the country, but by integrating them into it, by setting up emergency response facilities to process the immigrants, by changing the current rules and laws to correct the immediate situation.

ITS ONLY IS THE DAYS OF SMALL MINDED POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THAT WE HAVE NOT BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE or any issue for that matter. Nearly every issue outlined in the reply is a direct cause of political correct garbage.

Why are our kids scores bad? -Well we are not even allowed to test them evenly anymore much less expect that all kids have a basic proficiency in certain skills to graduate, cause that would be unfair. I mean I had to sign a permission slip so that the a teacher in Elementary school could administer a basic skills assessment to her class so she could know what actually needed to be taught, how insane is that....

Why do we have no tech or energy production? -Because when we needed to regulate pollution and industry it became such a political issue with Global BS warming, the EPA nAzis, and people chaining themselves to trees that no one can even talk about the important issues of reducing waste and properly storing chemicals, instead we have ribbon cutting ceremonies at C02 sequestration plants that only operate 5 days of the year but cost 5 billion dollars to run. Why don't we spend the 5 billion sending jobless people to washington to replant the de-forested clear cutting areas? That sure cu carbon, and it would even employ people AND it would become a resource for the future.



Immigration and wage reduction has been solved at least 3 times in 200 years, its shameful that we can't do it now because people wont face up to mere words and hold us all back from dealing with the actual issue and want to focus on unrelated elementary school play ground politics.


Yes we need a Latino Elise island, where they can quickly and easily become citizens, get SS, get licenses, and pay taxes, and become part of the ex-greatest society on earth. We don't need to charge people 50,000$ and make them wait 5 years. If you can recite the Pledge of Allegiance in English, good enough, most immigrants are pretty hardy people they can sort themselves out. I have an app on my phone that can translate Spanish to English and many other languages, I got for free, it gets me by when I go to Korea so I can't imagine it wouldn't be able to do the same for Spanish speaking people or English speaking people. The rest will come with time over a generation or two. I use it when I visit my wife's parents who don't speak any English, I use it when I go shopping in a country where I don't know the language. It really is that easy until you call me a racist simply because I used the word Latino.

There are hundreds of causes for the decline of the USA, many of which are direct results of poor policy by government, and exploitation of National borders by big business. I would argue that the people that need the History lesson in the room are the ones that don't understand how simple the argument in the OP is, it has been shown correct many times in history. When you have 20% of the population of the country not even counted as citizens, its a good place to start with reform. There is obviously a problem with the system not the people.

Drop the politics and try to be Human, its a Human issue.

Don't just stop watching fox news, turn off ALL TV NETWORK NEWS, please do this for yourself. The USA no longer has News Networks, they simply get people angry at each other reporting garbage that has no relevance.


To webedoomed, Im sorry I called out your post, I don't think you are some bad person or have bad intentions or are an idiot, it simply was a prime example of a response that went to the racism card when no racism was implied in the orginal post.

reply to post by oblvion


The coming collapse is a bit more complicated; but you have framed it correctly. The industrial base you spoke of has been decimated due to NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the coming Pacific Trade Agreement will be the final nails in the coffin. When Obama and the morons in Congress grant amnesty they will bury the corpse of America.

Our children will be guaranteed a future of low wage, low skill jobs. Manufacturing will all be done by robots(most of it is already) and good paying blue collar jobs will all but disappear. If you're a doctor or a lawyer you might be ok, for a while anyway. But outside that, the United States will be turned into transformed into the very same third world squalor the rest of the Western Hemisphere has long enjoyed(except Canada and you're next)

We have been lied to and fed a steady diet of crap from our "government" for the past 5 years. They rave about auto sales even when they are nearly 30% lower than pre-2008! They rave about housing numbers which are based almost entirely on corporate purchases and investor sales to flip foreclosed homes because it is all but impossible for the average American to get a mortgage. Perhaps the kicker is the celebrated drop in the unemployment number! OOOOHHHH 6.7%! That's the best in years! Of course they don't say a word bout the 40 million Americans who are UNDEREMPLOYED...working part time because they can't find full time work. They don't bother to tell the sheeple that the number is actually dropping because people have simply given up looking and have dropped off the unemployment roles. The fact is that the labor participation index is at nearly record lows! nearly 30% of males are simply not working! But the "government" doesn't tell us that! No, they applaud Obama and his make believe, Keynesian Economics as having saved America when in fact they are destroying what little is left.

Yes immigration has played a large part but when and I no longer say if because the republicrats are all on board now. Sorry, I call republicans and democrats republicrats because we have a one party system with two heads...the republicrats. They pretend to be different but in reality there are no differences and they both agree that we need to feed American business with a steady stream of cheap labor. They will grant amnesty to some 11 million, which will automatically allow their families to enter....another 40 million. When it's all said and done, the population of the United States will overnight grow from 300 million to 360 million! Many will be criminals, perverts, unskilled laborers, welfare types....and they will ALL be legal and whether they are granted citizenship or not they will all be here legally.

America is finished. Sad. We had a good run. I am 47. Graduated from high school in 1984 and never though I'd see anything like what's going on in America today. Really makes me scared for where my 11 year old will be in n30 years.

reply to post by fractal2


This is complete and utter nonsense.

By your reasoning everyone in Hong Kong should be dead several times over given their tiny resource base and huge population. If you think immigration is bad in the US you should see what happened to Hong Kong. Most of what you need for a healthy economy is low government spending. Given extremely high government spending in the US, the economy of the US will permanently slow for as long as the high spending is in place.

Most of US fed gov spending is on the military, and then medicaid which is a huge subsidy for illegal immigration. U.S. military spending that supports the global corporate empire, is what keeps slave labor states like Hong Kong in business.

Hong Kong is a city, not a country, that thrives on slave labor, and it' not even ranked in the top ten cities in the world by GDP. It is hardly a model of success.

reply to post by Nevermind86

Based on these two facts, well the first is more subjective but the second is clearly a fact, the fact that illegal immigrants take your jobs is because: The jobs don't require any education, therefore anybody can do it, even people who don't even speak english, you don't see doctors or lawyers complaining about not having enough clients because mexican immigrants do their same work cheaper do you? But I'm sure the MacDonalds jobs and the cleaning toilet jobs are done by latino immigrants, which is fine, because the market is at work.

We don't have a shortage of jobs for Dr.s but we do have a shortage of jobs for our young and low income to get off of aid, the starting jobs are no longer available to get people going.

When the illegal persons have children they can get welfare for them and of the many i have know their children got money for college and have indeed taken better jobs from lawyer to business owner who hire illegals.



It has cost us all to turn every single thing into a two language system. People taking drivers tests in a foreign language when all the signs are in English. The country does not and never did compromise and pay out for these things with other immigrants.

I have a problem with many things in the current situation, but one of my biggest is the hundreds of Mexicans I have worked with and had as in-laws and friends had one thing in common...if you said "our country" to them including them in the USA ,they immediately set you straight! "I am a citizen of Mexico! This is NOT my country!" They almost always have a mexican flag in some form and celebrate Mexico's independence day and other holidays NOT the USA.

Even as a friend , co-worker and relative I was constantly called Gringo a derogatory term and most would not bother trying to speak English to me or have enough manners to translate to me. I saw abuse of the welfare system and it made me very angry.

On top of it all only one stayed when the draft came along the rest went "home" until it was safe to return without fighting for the USA.

When a country makes laws like immigration laws or any laws actually, and then does not even bother to uphold them you know longer have any true state of law. Want illegal immigrants, change the law first so they are just plain immigrants.

reply to post by Nevermind86

-Capitalism is based on laissez faire, or so the theory goes, so the more laissez faire or put it another way, the more the goverment doesn't interfere with the economy, the more effective it is.

No, laissez faire capitalism is a form of capitalism, and it is a terrible system. History and economics has shown that an evenly enforce fair set of rules governing market essentials, established by a government of the people, with a mix of social programs, creates the most effective economic system.

reply to post by vind21


Large masses of immigrants in the past dealt with many of the same problems we are dealing with today. The main reason all these immigrants were brought into the country was to be exploited as cheap labor for the super rich, undermine the wages of people in the US, and undermine our rights, then as now.

Things got so bad that the people finally elected politicians who stopped the massive influx of immigrants, and hit the super rich with high taxes, and began spending money on infrastructure, which created massive numbers of jobs.

Environmental protection laws are not a bad idea, they are a very good idea, and they create lots of jobs. The answer to the exportation of our jobs to cheap overseas labor markets where environmental laws are not enforced is to set up tariffs, based on how well those other countries follow Environmental protection laws, labor rights, and wage increases.

The U.S. economy did extremely well in the past when these laws were in place, and trade agreements were written to protect the people of the U.S., instead of the ICBs.

We could be doing well once again, if we just returned to the proven formula.

reply to post by webedoomed


couldn't of written it better myself.

proofreply to post by oblvion


I hate to be the one to point this out but I figured this out. My extensive research has proven illegal immigrants killed John F. Kennedy.

reply to post by survivor727


We have been fed a load of crap for that last 34 years, beginning with Reagan's skill job of selling business corruption as "Free Market" economics, the biggest scam in U.S. history.

Robotics does not eliminate jobs, only the need for giant corporations. With robotics and automation, we could revise small business across the country. Legalize hemp, with all the products that can be made from it, using wind mills and other forms of renewable energy, products built to last, we could all be living good lives, working a lot less, and spending a lot more time with our families.