i didnt want to be "that" guy, but here it is, the reason the collapse is happening.

Although the OP fails to call out the puppetmasters pulling the strings on this insanity, and the many different ways this country is being destroyed economically, the end result is the same, and he is correct. Flooding this country with cheap labor is destroying the middle class, and therefore, our prosperity.

I used to work for immigration, and I've seen how this stuff works. Each quarter, the US gov't puts a cap on the amount of legal visas to be issued to those who want to come here from every country in the world. Certain countries have people clamoring to come to the states, so they keep the cap low. Others, not a whole lot are interested, so the caps are never met.

It is actually quite expensive to come here legally, and in countries like Mexico, the waiting list is long indeed. There are no repercussions for those who decide to sneak over here illegally. In fact, they get rewarded. The employers who hire them (and believe me, the gov't knows EXACTLY who they are) profit from hiring a workforce who is invisible and under the radar. Social security numbers are pulled out of a hat and passed around. A cursory search of even a child's legal social security number often yields five or six Hispanic names attached to it, who are working and paying into the system.

The system has been deliberately subverted in order for corporations to profit....in particular, agriculture, factories and construction.

I have nothing against immigration, as my parents were immigrants. However, they came here legally. If the employers committing these crimes were punished, and we wouldn't give benefits to illegals, this subversion would stop cold. Yet, you see the opposite happening, along with using the bleeding heart argument.

Hence we are just a step away from being a third world ourselves, in which our resources and labor force can be exploited cheaply, our manufacturing base has been gutted as it has been outsourced to other third world countries, and the people actually guilty for this destruction don't have to live in the ghettos they have created.

We are at a tipping point now. This country could reverse the downward slide, but that would require application of existing laws. I see our gov't pushing to get us pass the point of no return....all for the benefit of a few.

buster2010

oblvion

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by webedoomed

 

The only thing that is obvious is that you called the thread author a lazy ,ignorant racist that must watch Fox News.
Sticks and stones budy.

thanks hoosierdaddy, I am from Indiana also, Plainfield actually.

Common sense must be a Hoosier thing I guess.

Then why aren't you showing some common sense then? Illegal immigrants do not lower wages. The money grubbers that choose to hire them over citizens are the ones that lower wages. Yes liberals changed the rules for bank loans but it was the banks that created the toxic derivatives that led to the crash. And who had the bright idea to bail out the banks? Little Bush and his cronies.

This is not a partisan issue.

If a company can employ men for $15 an hour, or an illegal for $8 who are they going to hire?

The company followed the market, as they should, the .gov allowed them all in and let them stay, it is the ultimate culprit here. Countries seal their borders all over the world all the time, it isn't even that hard, they just have to actually try.

The banks that were directed by the law makers to allow people that couldn't get a loan under the established market rules, so they made the only market capable vehicle that they could come up with to make it happen.

In short the entire market has been "rigged" by both parties. The dens to get home loans for those that couldn't afford one, and the repubs for super cheap labor so their corporate masters could make more money off cheaper labor costs.

It is both parties at the same time, in opposing directions.

St Udio
Sorry.... the 17 million migration in the USA was a Result of long term policies Not the Cause of the present economic (slow-motion) collapse



the reason for the continuing crisis was the creation of the Quadrillion dollar un-regulated Derivatives 'game'... the Alice-in-Wonderland, fiat money creation with no limits to betting-on-debt creation along with the expanding greed of the banker-finance network of industries is the 'seed' that has crippled the western world & the London-NY control of all the global finance & trade venues & regulators.


go listen to the golden jackass interview with the 'common sense show'
usawatchdog.com...

58:00 minutes audio is very apocalyptic

Beautiful, you are right in part, but flooding the jobs market with low cost workers did undercut the middle class, this is without question.

reply to post by popeye0314


I don't believe you understand my meaning, not once have I blamed any race, or culture or class of people.

I did blame the .gov for making the environment that led the market to do these things though.

reply to post by oblvion


I agree with much you say. I was in the workforce from 69-2007 and witnessed much of it. From my point of view, when Reagan began destructing the unions and its powers, the middle class was done. Illegals do not like union jobs because of ID and have to speak English. That was my husband's union anyway, Laborer Trade Union. We retired with a pension in a trust fund for 40yrs, not 401k's and such.

I might believe it was the fault of illegals, the working class, home buyers, bottom feeders, if we had the money. But it is all at the top. What do they say "follow the money".......

FissionSurplus
Although the OP fails to call out the puppetmasters pulling the strings on this insanity, and the many different ways this country is being destroyed economically, the end result is the same, and he is correct. Flooding this country with cheap labor is destroying the middle class, and therefore, our prosperity.

I used to work for immigration, and I've seen how this stuff works. Each quarter, the US gov't puts a cap on the amount of legal visas to be issued to those who want to come here from every country in the world. Certain countries have people clamoring to come to the states, so they keep the cap low. Others, not a whole lot are interested, so the caps are never met.

It is actually quite expensive to come here legally, and in countries like Mexico, the waiting list is long indeed. There are no repercussions for those who decide to sneak over here illegally. In fact, they get rewarded. The employers who hire them (and believe me, the gov't knows EXACTLY who they are) profit from hiring a workforce who is invisible and uunder the radar. Social security numbers are pulled out of a hat and passed around. A cursory search of even a child's legal social security number often yields five or six Hispanic names attached to it, who are working and paying into the system.

The system has been deliberately subverted in order for corporations to profit....in particular, agriculture, factories and construction.

I have nothing against immigration, as my parents were immigrants. However, they came here legally. If the employers committing these crimes were punished, and we wouldn't give benefits to illegals, this subversion would stop cold. Yet, you see the opposite happening, along with using the bleeding heart argument.

Hence we are just a step away from being a third world ourselves, in which our resources and labor force can be exploited cheaply, our manufacturing base has been gutted as it has been outsourced to other third world countries, and the people actually guilty for this destruction don't have to live in the ghettos they have created.

We are at a tipping point now. This country could reverse the downward slide, but that would require application of existing laws. I see our gov't pushing to get us pass the point of no return....all for the benefit of a few.

Plz sir continue, I think you understand exactly what I am talking about, and I feel it is probable I lack the correct syntax or linguistic ability to properly relay my point in a manner that would accurately relay the quite dire nature of our financial situation.

You seem to bring it to the fore with relative ease.

Plz, in the name of God, continue.

The cause of our current condition can be seen in the historical record.

Once again it is simply a great forgetting.

Lincoln was assassinated, and shortly after that, corporations were allowed to once again flourish on this continent (1871-1890).

Several iterations of central banking were tried , rejected, and struck down,but the federal reserve was sneaked into law in 1913.

Shortly after the federal reserve came into existence, WW1 occurred because there are lots of profits to be made from loaning money to both sides of the conflict, and it just goes on and on....

We were repeatedly warned, but we just don't listen, or cannot remember.

“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered. ”

Then came the great depression, which resulted from many of the same financial shenanigans we see going on today.

During the Clinton administration, Glass-Steagall legislation which was written to prevent another depression for the same reasons as the first depression, was rescinded.

A decade or so later we find ourselves back fighting a " Triangle Shirtwaist Factory" kind of struggle once again.

I was on a roll, but got distracted by a big explosion nearby, but you all can pretty much figure out where I was headed with this post.....

MOMof3
reply to post by oblvion

 

I agree with much you say. I was in the workforce from 69-2007 and witnessed much of it. From my point of view, when Reagan began destructing the unions and its powers, the middle class was done. Illegals do not like union jobs because of ID and have to speak English. That was my husband's union anyway, Laborer Trade Union. We retired with a pension in a trust fund for 40yrs, not 401k's and such.

I might believe it was the fault of illegals, the working class, home buyers, bottom feeders, if we had the money. But it is all at the top. What do they say "follow the money".......

Of course, it is always about the money, or power, which ever is of higher value at the time.

In this case, money is being printed to the point of being a non sequitor so I think it is more about power in general.

As the people lose power, those at the top gain it.

reply to post by oblvion


How can "the people" do anything when we are all so divided? I don't agree with conservative politics, and I don't like illegals, but I don't hate them to the point that I can't think rationally and find solutions.

What do we all have in common that is worth fighting for anymore? We can't even win wars anymore.

reply to post by webedoomed


" Okay, so you're racist, and choose to focus on illegal immigration. Gotcha.

How do you Equate the OP's mentioning of ILLEGAL Immigration as a Root Cause for our current Economic Problems with Racism ? ILLEGAL Immigrants of All Nationalities and Colors come to the United States for the Sole Purpose of either getting out of Poverty

in their Countries of Birth or for the explicit reason to make Untaxable Income for their own Personal gain with no Thought as to the effect that has on the U.S. Econom
y as a whole . The Federal Goverment itself is Undermining our Economy by not Enforcing our Immigration Laws for whatever Reason , and in most Americans eyes that is Literally an Act of Treason . Talk about making an Effort to " Deny Ignorance " , I think you might try a little Harder Next time before you Flame a person for expressing themselves in a CIVIL Manner ............

reply to post by MyHappyDogShiner


Indeed Jefferson would be jailed for having flat out murdered many of these supposed leaders of our current financial institutions.

Though in his time they would have described it as defending the people from tyranny, not murder.

Too bad we can't everyone to agree for only a week to not shop, not work, not have any commercial contact of any type.

If only for 5 days, just a Monday - Friday one time all would do this...........we would and could change the way of the world for the better.

MOMof3
reply to post by oblvion

 

How can "the people" do anything when we are all so divided? I don't agree with conservative politics, and I don't like illegals, but I don't hate them to the point that I can't think rationally and find solutions.

What do we all have in common that is worth fighting for anymore? We can't even win wars anymore.

We could all stand together, instead of continuing to hang apart.

If all workers, not even execs, or rich or politicians all stood together for a few short days, we would force the needed changes without any trouble at all.

Haven't you ever noticed how fast politicians and businesses change their stance on every issue when only a couple of million Americans get pissy?

Imagine ten million or twenty million, refusing to work for a week until they enforced current immigration laws, held financial institutions accountable, bailed out the people for once by simply not selling them out at every turn.

I think this is coming, as for almost half the workers in the country at this point, poverty is their unchangeable future.

A poster above said it right, I believe this is the tipping point, right here, right now, in the coming few months.

There is no recovery, unless you have more money than anyone could ever need, in which case things are going great for you and yours.

reply to post by oblvion


That may be one of the reasons, but all road leads to Rome. Rome being the federal reserve destructive policies. I for one believe they are trying to pump and dump the market. Right now with are in a pumping stage. Then they will dump it at the collapse stage to destroy the market. Then swoop in at the very bottom to buy up the economy for pennies on the dollar.

reply to post by oblvion


I like that idea and would encourage my working kids to participate in that. Money is the only thing government and corps want from us. They do not need our money, but they know that is the Power they hold over the working class, clinging to a cliff.

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by webedoomed

 

" Okay, so you're racist, and choose to focus on illegal immigration. Gotcha.

How do you Equate the OP's mentioning of ILLEGAL Immigration as a Root Cause for our current Economic Problems with Racism ? ILLEGAL Immigrants of All Nationalities and Colors come to the United States for the Sole Purpose of either getting out of Poverty

in their Countries of Birth or for the explicit reason to make Untaxable Income for their own Personal gain with no Thought as to the effect that has on the U.S. Econom
y as a whole . The Federal Goverment itself is Undermining our Economy by not Enforcing our Immigration Laws for whatever Reason , and in most Americans eyes that is Literally an Act of Treason . Talk about making an Effort to " Deny Ignorance " , I think you might try a little Harder Next time before you Flame a person for expressing themselves in a CIVIL Manner ............

edit on 19-1-2014 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

Thanks for that, but I won't be drawn in by the troll, he can report that he was unable to derail the thread to his masters, and get placed in a burlap sack and beaten with reeds for his failure now. That was from Austin Powers btw, I totally ripped it from the movie.

amfirst1
reply to post by oblvion

 

That may be one of the reasons, but all road leads to Rome. Rome being the federal reserve destructive policies. I for one believe they are trying to pump and dump the market. Right now with are in a pumping stage. Then they will dump it at the collapse stage to destroy the market. Then swoop in at the very bottom to buy up the economy for pennies on the dollar.

It does all go back to Rome, at this point it all bread and circuses. Too many of us are buying it, too few of us would the necessary.

" the ultimate form of protest is to not participate in any activity you do not agree with"-Einstein

reply to post by oblvion


I have been yacking about a "General Strike" for years, it would certainly point out who relies on whom, I think I have mentioned that on this forum several times over the years.

It's such a monkey see, monkey do...Keep up with the Jones's kind of world though, that one would have to somehow convince people that living frugally, even for one week is stylish somehow.

One week would completely collapse this economy, it would be better to be part of the collapse, maybe even the cause, than to keep accepting more misery and loss over a longer time.

But that is why there are so many distractions offered, to dull the pain...

reply to post by oblvion


I disagree with your conclusion, although you've touched on some very relevant details.

We've lost the manufacturing jobs, not just had illegal immigrants fill them. Not only has labor supply risen, labor demand has decreased.

The purpose of illegal immigrants being allowed in is not strictly labor related either. They also serve as consumers even if they aren't employed. Every warm body in the US buys food and a few other things at US prices whether they beg borrow steal or take public funds to do it. This effectively kicks back an additional share of all payouts from govt and corporations back to those entities.

Of course any one who pays the rich for goods and services without the rich paying them anything first is good for the rich, not just illegals.
Wealth is redistributed upward when a consumers spending comes from any of the following sources: government borrowing for public assistance, crime against the poor, panhandling, selling of personal property, or wages paid by small business (Small business owner mortgages house, buys lawnmower, hires workers, the money gets spent and taxed, the business fails, bank takes the house- the rich win).

And if the underclass exists to buy rather than to work, even more money can be made or at least saved by putting less into education.

In short, it is a multitude of malfunctions which are being coordinated to move wealth from US government and citizens into multinational corporations and banks, and it lends credence to the idea that things never could have gotten this messed up by accident.

MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by oblvion

 

I have been yacking about a "General Strike" for years, it would certainly point out who relies on whom, I think I have mentioned that on this forum several times over the years.

It's such a monkey see, monkey do...Keep up with the Jones's kind of world though, that one would have to somehow convince people that living frugally, even for one week is stylish somehow.

One week would completely collapse this economy, it would be better to be part of the collapse, maybe even the cause, than to keep accepting more misery and loss over a longer time.

But that is why there are so many distractions offered, to dull the pain...

One week would not do a thing to the economy.
Everybody would just stock up on beer and cigarettes the day before. Then they would still be shopping on amazon.

oblvion

MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by misschareesee2

 

Yesssssssssssssssssss...

And we ignorantly pay for the police and military to keep us off of the 1%'s manicured yard and grounds.

No wonder the military likes young un-established people who know no better, who then, after developing a taste for violence, go on to become police officers....

We pay to build our own cage, then we spend our whole life trying to distract ourselves from the fact we are trapped there.

Then we die, and your cage is sold to another sucker.

I do believe we re both looking at the same page here.

We are doing this to ourselves, next we will be digging our own graves.

How do we fix it though?

The current system can't be fixed.

We will all go down kicking and screaming to maintain our comfy lifestyles at the expense of those working for slave wages to provide us with affordable goods and services.

We are sitting fat and happy, for the most part in the US with little thought of the extreme poverty those illegal aliens have escaped from to secure a better future, or the extreme poverty workers in 3rd world countries endure while they labor to provide us with the "good life".

In this regard, the middle class or what's left of it, is no better than the 1% we envy and despise. As above, so below.

I think the economy has to be fixed globally, there is no other way. Release free energy technology and establish a resource based economy.