Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: mirageman

When i was first 'introduced' to strange aerial displays and a few rather unsettling close encounters with a black triangle type craft it really shook me to my core.

it is one thing to say you believe in ET or a secret space program, and it is another thing to see it feet away and seemingly interacting with you.

My wife experienced the same (before she met me and years before the Belgium flap) with a friend one evening in a park, and it also shook her to the core so much that they literally ran home as fast as they could. She claims it was the size of a football field as it glided over, blocking the stars, absolutely no sound, and - intriguingly - sending down thin beams of light, seemingly scanning the area. Oddly, she believed it was looking for cats and dogs - a strange thought to have before coming to her senses and scarpering.

I accept her story because, well, she isn't lying, but the nagging sceptical part of my brain files it away as 'Interesting for future use' without further analysis. I wish I was as lucky as her, but I'm not sure "lucky" is the right word! Many years later, my In-Laws' Cornish home was where I was starkly introduced to High Strangeness of a different kind despite busy UFO activity over that vicinity, too - but that's another story (covered in my intro thread).


And my point is... I'm not sure I have one! Your experience just chimed with my wife's. Including that Fear factor.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Does that seem feasible? Tempt people with money and fame or threaten them with consequences. Wealth, Violence and Information are the three forms of power. It looks like first two may have been employed to prevent the latter getting out here.

We may have an answer ten years into this thread - five years is far too soon, MM.

As Ray Bradbury once remarked:

The best scientist is open to experience and begins with romance - the idea that anything is possible.

a reply to: mirageman

That's how ufology works isn't it?

Going back to platforms from which light and microwaves including MMW could have come into contact with John, I go back to SAR( Synthetic Aperture Radar) from a sat or something else?

The reason for the question mark is partly due to other possible platforms mentioned.

Remote Sensing is a set of multidisciplinary techniques and methodologies that aim at obtaining information about the environment through “remote” measurements. In particular, microwave remote sensing uses electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength between 1 cm and 1 m (commonly referred to as microwaves) as a measurement tool. Due to the greater wavelength compared to visible and infrared radiation, microwaves exhibit the important property of penetrating clouds, fog, and possible ash or powder coverages (for example, in case of an erupting volcano or a collapsed building). This important property makes this technique virtually suitable to work in any weather condition or environment. Microwave remote sensing systems are classified into two groups: passive and active. Passive systems collect the radiation that is naturally emitted by the observed surface. In fact, objects emit energy at the microwave frequencies, although sometimes in an extremely small amount. These systems are generally characterized by relatively low spatial resolutions. On the contrary, active systems are characterized by the presence of their own source (transmitter) that “lights up” the observed scene and, therefore, can be used both at night and day, independently of the presence of sun. The sensor transmits a (radio) signal in the microwave bandwidth and records the part that is backscattered by the target towards the sensor itself. The power of the backscattered signal allows to discriminate between different targets within the scene, while the time between the sent and the received signal is used to measure the distance of the target. A system that operates in this way is called RADAR (the name stands for RAdio Detection And Ranging), and may allow to obtain a “microwave image” of the observed scene. The most commonly used microwave imaging sensor is the Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), that is a radar system capable of providing high-resolution microwave images. They have distinctive characteristics compared to common optical images acquired in the visible or infrared bands; for this reason, radar and optical data can be complementary, as they carry on a different informative contribution.

www.irea.cnr.it...

The June 1978 launch of Seasat was the first civilian application of synthetic aperture radar, and it provided a powerful new tool to scientists studying the earth. Prior to Seasat, civilian image acquisition of the earth was via Landsat cameras, using visible light and providing resolutions in the tens of meters. Seasat operated until October of 1978, when it was disabled by a massive short circuit in its power system. Since that time, many SARs have flown on board the Space Shuttle.

ethw.org...

Would the inner workings of such a sat when ruptured, give off the kind of radiation suffered during the Cash/Landrum case or even the causes of Michael Stacy Smith illnesses?

Subpicosecond broadband THz transients are an excellent tool to study dynamics of ultrafast processes in semiconductors [11–14], which understanding is crucial for development of new electronic devices. Except of purely scientific applications of THz technology, numerous practical applications start to emerge. THz techniques have high potential in such opto-electronic areas as industrial control, pharmaceutics, medical diagnostics, security applications, high-speed wireless communication and art conservation [1, 15–17]. There are several milestones that have made THz spectroscopy well established scientific technique. As the first one, Fourier transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy developed in 1950’s should be mentioned [18, 19]. FTIR combines interferometry and broadband infrared detectors to achieve frequency resolution. Together with implementation of fast Fourier transform (FFT) algorithm and first computers, FTIR became a standard analytical method in the far- and mid-infrared range. The next important development in the THz range started in 1960’s with invention of maser and laser, which led to the invention of various THz gas lasers (e.g. CO2 pumped methanol laser at 2.5 THz [20]). A major development, which is also based on a fundamentally different approach to the THz spectroscopy, came with the discovery of ultrafast mode-locked lasers. The pioneering work was done in 1970s by D. H. Auston at Bell Laboratories [21], who used photoconductive dipole antennas to generate far-infrared radiation.

orbit.dtu.dk...

Could the beam that engulfed John be linked to such applications?

a reply to: AdamE

I think what you've put above is interesting but not in anyway connected to the RFI.

I went down the route of looking into Fourier transforms and one of the big differences between the Duga and Cobra Mist was the Duga was newer and had rooms (yes rooms) of computer rack boards to do the fourier transforms. Cobra Mist didn't have any hardware to do fourier transforms. This made the data a lot less useful.

If it happened now, maybe, but there would still be huge technical problems and the pointlessness of dragging the equipment out to the woods. I mean, why bother?

Microwaves are never going to penetrate the woods. They can deal with fog. They would heat up the trees and foliage and not pass through.

Terahertz won't even go through steam.

Gamma rays will punch through things, but even those won't go far.

As I've mentioned before, there are three ways to look at the RFI exposure

- What were the energy requirements
- What were the transmission ranges / obstacles
- What were the effects?

Remember, until VERY recently, we'd laboured under the assumption we were looking at non-ionising radiation only.

That isn't true.

We are looking a Gamma ray beam. Not a flash. Not a random occurrence. Repeated exposure of the men to a combined MM, T-hertz and Gamma ray beam.

Unless Dr Green et al are very wrong then the possibilities get smaller.

- This was not a natural phenomena
- This emission was not from a satellite, boat or plane. The targeting and transmission issues prevent it
- The unusual nature of the three types of radiation in the emission demonstrate it was not an 'accident' it was intentional

Things like radar can't really play a role anymore if the above is true. They don't have Gamma beams.

Looking at the men, you can probably create a very rough range of exposure in Sieverts and from that create a fall off radius where the energy would be ineffective due to the inverse square law.

I can tell you now, that there are very few locations where the source of exposure can exist outside the woods. Of course, if it did, you would also have to then factor in the absorption of damp trees and foliage.

Whatever injured the men was close to them.It's almost certainly exactly what the men claim (Occam's razor and all that). The emitter was a mobile platform in the woods.

a reply to: ctj83

Whatever injured the men was close to them.It's almost certainly exactly what the men claim (Occam's razor and all that). The emitter was a mobile platform in the woods.

Certain people have alluded to there being a natural EM field in the area around the forest. Although I haven't seen any evidence that this randomly causes heart disease in young men in the area. I also don't see some piece of equipment being taken into a forest area over 3 days and nights and none of the general public noticed anything. People would be walking their dogs and taking a breath of fresh air over the Christmas holidays during this time. Are there any reports of anything unusual from the public though?

Whatever was there (or not there) did not appear to cause the same injuries either. On the third night the Halt posse don't seem to have suffered any ill effects that we know of. Although Bustinza claimed he had problems with one of his hands. Then from the first night Penniston said he had Ménière's disease (an inner ear disorder) and recurring nightmares for at least 30 years. Burroughs suffered heart trouble. Cabansag ,who was with them both, to my knowledge reported no ill effects to date. There is no consistency at all.

The VA appear to have settled Burroughs claims for injuries in the line of duty. What we have been told appears to confirm those injuries were sustained as a result of the RFI. But were they ? What could have been so close to cause different medical conditions or nothing at all in these men?

Maybe there was nothing there at all that injured these men? So are they are all exaggerating and lying and nothing much happened at all?

The problem with that theory is that there is a document trail which shows John Burroughs fought and finally won a case against the VA based on what happened to him. Which can only mean that something else has, and still is, being covered up. But was it really something in Rendlesham Forest?

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
a reply to: The GUT

I note here...

originally posted by: LaPlume
But for the record let me state this. We were trained specialists. We were not a bunch of keystone cops. We all took our job very seriously. We had the right to shoot people on sight if they breached our security so it was not a game for us it was real life and we were not a bunch of fools or incompetent security personnel. We were not mall cop security and I have seen some comments by people suggesting this or that we were drunk or stoned or whatever. That did not happen that I ever saw. Once I do know of a guy that was either hung over or a bit drunk from the night before on post and he was removed from post so fast his head spun. We had exercises every night to keep us on our toes and we never knew when an exercise would take place so, well, you get the picture. I just get offended when people suggest we were less than professional and not trained well. We were trained very well.

In the video you linked before, when he refers to his own sighting of a craft he goes into some detail about how he was very hung over from the party he had in his dorm room the night before when he went on duty...

...small detail, but...

Unequivocal apologies, I was totally incorrect, I watched the video again and he had the hang over on the morning that the original sighting took place not as I had thought, when he went on duty at the gate and had his own sighting of light phenomenon. One story meandered into another and I obviously wasn't paying close enough attention.

Sorry all, and particularly Mr La Plume, I didn't mean to cast aspersions.

originally posted by: mirageman
...I have three thoughts in closing.

1st - If it was a UFO why did Palmer and I see it and no one else?

2nd - Palmer was very "stand offish" and was later assigned to the AFOSI. I feel he was involved somehow in this and might even believe it was some sort of hallucination experiment like he may have sprayed me with something and I was given suggestive thoughts. I don't know just a thought here.

3rd - Why would all this brass come out of the wood work at one in the morning if there was not something going on?

I offer no explanation I still have no idea what I saw other than its size shape and lack of noise. As far as the others who had the big incident I have no doubt they believe they saw what they saw.

As a side note - I "snapped" and got kicked out of the service...

Source : 81sps.homestead.com...

Long before Salisbury, the MKUltra documents talk about developing agents that can be sprayed on unsuspecting victims (I kind of presume concealed by a nasty wet sounding sneeze or some such). The chemical and biological weapons division, along that line, had worked with Staphylococcal enterotoxin B which Donald Avery in Pathogens for War quotes as being found to be "a quick acting incapacitating agent."

The function of this protein is to facilitate the infection of the host organism. It is a virulence factor designed to induce pathogenesis.[3] One of the major virulence exotoxins is the toxic shock syndrome toxin (TSST), which is secreted by the organism upon successful invasion. It causes a major inflammatory response in the host via superantigenic properties, and is the causative agent of toxic shock syndrome. It functions as a superantigen through activation of a significant fraction of T-cells (up to 20%) by cross-linking MHC class II molecules with T-cell receptors. TSST is a multisystem illness with several symptoms such as high fever, hypotension, dizziness, rash and peeling skin.[3]

en.wikipedia.org...

It would be my understanding that much would depend upon the hosts immune system. The incapacitation caused may only be the sudden, and debilitating, onset of violent diarrhea and vomiting but given that it is a refined agent, it could just result in a massive release of cytokines. In some, those with some kind of immune-suppression, or already carrying some kind of bug or virus, it could just skip passed the stages and go straight for Toxic Shock. Either way, having something like that on-board could very well explain both the physical ailments and the hallucinations.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Another small-maybe-bigger detail is Halt (quoted earlier) confirming that F-117s regularly flew over and landed at the bases. This was in response to the early-80s Butler Brigade having seen a triangular craft flying over Halt's own home whilst they were incessantly harassing him (and soon arrested).

Could Steve, in the midst of a hangover, have misidentified an F-117 in January '81?

I got the bit about the hangover wrong, sorry...but from the video he describes something that is cyclindrical and that hovered above him and Palmer. He says it could have been saucer shaped but it was a cylinder from his perspective. Does an F-117 hover and look cylindrical? La Plume points out that he has a photographic memory, I think if that was the case he would know it. That ceiling vent he shows a photo of in his slide show, that that was the kind of configuration that he saw on the underside of the craft, I'm not seeing that either on the F-117. The zig-zaggy light show at many 1000 of feet I have seen myself and I am sure I read a thread on ATS not long back that offered a somewhat plausible explanation for that but I am short on time right now.

Despite La Plume's obvious composure and clear, concise recall of events, I get a trippy vibe from what he is describing. The ceiling fan tile. The Colonel's jittery camera toting wife. Not sure really, it just has an air about it.

Then again, surely Halt, Williams & Co would have known about such a craft's flight when they gleefully came bounding over to see for themselves after Steve notified them?

Personally, I am currently leaning toward the individuality of the accounts being down to the individuality of body chemistry. Same agent, be it EM or bio-chemical, different variations of the same outcome.

a reply to: ctj83

Microwaves are never going to penetrate the woods. They can deal with fog. They would heat up the trees and foliage and not pass through.

I thought the light encountered on the 3rd night was in the a field, not in the forest, or am I wrong?

I understand the Gamma part from this link...

X-rays and gamma rays are both types of high energy (high frequency) electromagnetic radiation. They are packets of energy that have no charge or mass (weight). These packets of energy are known as photons. Because X-rays and gamma rays have the same properties and health effects, they are grouped together in this document. Both x-rays and gamma rays are forms of high-frequency ionizing radiation, which means they have enough energy to remove an electron from (ionize) an atom or molecule. Ionized molecules are unstable and quickly undergo chemical changes. If ionizing radiation passes through a cell in the body, it can lead to mutations (changes) in the cell’s DNA, the part of the cell that contains its genes (blueprints). Sometimes this causes the cell to die, but sometimes it can lead to cancer later on. The amount of damage caused in the cell is related to the dose of radiation it receives. The damage takes place in only a fraction of a second, but other changes such as the beginning of cancer may take years to develop.

www.cancer.org...

Aerial and ground-based gamma-ray spectroscopy is employed to support geologic mapping, mineral exploration, and identification of environmental contamination.

www.britannica.com...

These applications penetrate the earth to a certain degree and WERE being used at the time and a great tool for NRO Operations, which also flew over the South east of England from South to North.

This is why I keep going back to it.
(Edit. I have just read this back and just like to make it clear that my thinking would also involve SAR type equipment possibly being on a Stealthy platform type of some description)

Just a thought mirageman, what do you think about the idea of the Soviets targeting one of the SAR assets from the Zenit launch? If the rumours are correct, could a scenario such as this be feasible as to why the Soviets were (what seems) ready? They would have loved to get their hands on the tech?
Maybe the remnants of which affected Cash/Landrum case?
They failed?

Anyone attending tomorrow?

What about you Mirageman?


m.facebook.com...

As a random aside, I was just perusing Penniston's 1994 regression to pinpoint when he first mentioned binary codes, ie:

I see the craft. The lights dissipate. They want to know what symbols I'm seeing. I don't want to tell them, but I tell them. They want to know what I did next. I said I felt the symbols because they were raised. Tell them about the lights. White light. They already know about the lights. They are asking me if I see binary code? I see the binary code. They are slowing me down.

(Linda Moulton Howe,"Glimpse of Other Realities, Vol. II" (1998))

However, my point is that later on, Penniston seems to describe a dating problem we are all too familiar with in this thread:

They [the time travelers] tell me when I was at the East Gate with John, they have five different stories to tell. Important to scramble dates. That's the unique thing about this - all stories are the same. They just have different dates... They are reading my story to me. The dates are just different. I'll remember. They are going to give me a warning... It doesn't make any difference if I talk about the story. They could care less. It's too unbelievable.

You said it, Jim.

First time I've seen that part of the session - although 'under', is he rather too conveniently referring to the confusing dates in his notebook? And... dare I say it... Halt's memo?

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
Anyone attending tomorrow?

What about you Mirageman?


m.facebook.com...

You really are trying to send me to Hull and back now aren't you?

originally posted by: AdamE
Just a thought mirageman, what do you think about the idea of the Soviets targeting one of the SAR assets from the Zenit launch? If the rumours are correct, could a scenario such as this be feasible as to why the Soviets were (what seems) ready? They would have loved to get their hands on the tech?
Maybe the remnants of which affected Cash/Landrum case?
They failed?

This probably deserves more of an answer. But I have limited knowledge of Synthetic Aperture Radar and how it was deployed. The Soviets were very paranoid at this time and certain elements of the Politburo were convinced the Space Shuttle was going to be used to deliver a nuclear strike on the Soviet Union.

An analysis by Mstislav Keldysh, head of the Soviet National Academy of Sciences, suggested that the Space Shuttle existed in order to lob huge, 25-megaton nuclear bombs from space directly to Moscow... The real danger was that the shuttle could do this by surprise. There would be little to no warning from early warning radars, and no defense.

To date, there is no evidence whatsoever that such mission was even seriously considered... But this paranoid line of thinking did leave a legacy, or two.

One of the legacies was the Soviet “Buran” shuttle program... Buran really was a weapon, with a planned capability to drop up to 20 nuclear bombs from orbit.

Source : jmkorhonen.net...

So the simple answer would be that the Soviets were very interested in acquiring Western technology.

But how do they go about disrupting and capturing a satellite (or other airborne SAR device but from now on I'll refer to it as a satellite)? What is the scenario here that would bring about responses from a USAF base in England? Are we saying the Soviets used the Kosmos 1227 to disrupt a secret US satellite using SAR? If so can we identify that US satellite now?

Was Cash-Landrum the product of the said satellite being recovered and leaking radiation? I really don't know. It would also seem to hint that a radiaoactive satellite was recovered somewhere near to Texas (Gulf of Mexico?) and dangerously flown over US airspace. It surely also posed a danger to the recovery team.

There are too many unconfirmed variables to go from a theory to a working hypothesis.

One thing I would like to know though is whether John Burroughs was suffering with a sore throat on one or both of the two nights he was a witness to the RFI?

a reply to: mirageman

There was reference to it in 1999.

U.S. Loses Hold on Submarine-Exposing Radar Technique By WILLIAM J. BROAD
www.nytimes.com...

Since the start of the space age, most satellites have observed the Earth with cameras similar in principle to any tourist's. In 1978, however, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration launched a new kind of satellite that made images by bouncing radio waves off the planet. Known as Seasat, this radar craft saw land and sea in striking new ways, its images revealing narrow lines in the ocean -- tracings left by the passage of ships and subs. It somehow managed to distinguish signs of deep turbulence from the regular froth and heave of the sea. Seasat's feats came to an abrupt end in 1978 when the spacecraft failed unexpectedly after 100 days, with the Pentagon deeply ambivalent about its discoveries.

If we can locate the sat, it may be more palatable. Keeping in mind the victors tend to write history.

I am also keeping in mind, the Colares case in 1977.

This imo, was a secret military test, probably on anti gov rebels and villages.

Other than that, it was Alien, and I dont go for that.

The guy who killed himself after talking about grey aliens sounds like more mind games, imo.

It is referenced by Bigelow. So in the bigger picture, either Bigelow is covering up the technology side of things, or there is something even above them in the context of High end exotic tech? (Pushing the boat out a bit, but stilled roped to the shore)

This is why I am keeping an open mind on particular assets that may be very black that include platform types.

a reply to: mirageman
Much of my intrigue with the last few posts I have written, goes back to some of the phenomena on the 3rd night.

This goes back to the quartz deposits under parts of the area which have been described and whether this played any part of what happened to John?

DIFFRACTION OF NEUTRONS AND X RAYS BY A VIBRATING QUARTZ CRYSTAL
Appl. Phys. Lett. 10, 293 (1967)aip.scitation.org...

Experiments on the diffraction of neutrons and x rays by a piezoelectrically vibrating quartz crystal have shown the following phenomena: large increases of the diffracted intensity relative to the non-vibrating crystal, modulation of the diffracted beam and the appearance of forbidden reflections. Preliminary measurements and a qualitative explanation are reported.

I will try and obtain a full copy of the above link tomorrow.

For the explanation for seeing zig-zagging lights, this is the thread I was referring to...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And it eventually gets around to discussing the Autokinetic effect...

The autokinetic effect (also referred to as autokinesis) is a phenomenon of visual perception in which a stationary, small point of light in an otherwise dark or featureless environment appears to move. It was first recorded by a Russian officer keeping watch, who observed illusory movement of a star near the horizon[citation needed]. It is presumed to occur because motion perception is always relative to some reference point, and in darkness or in a featureless environment there is no reference point, so the position of the single point is undefined. The direction of the movements does not appear to be correlated with involuntary eye movements, but may be determined by errors between eye position and that specified by efference copy of the movement signals sent to the extraocular muscles. Several researchers, including Richard Gregory, have shown that autokinesis occurs when no eye movements are recorded.[citation needed] Gregory has suggested that, with lack of peripheral information, eye movements which correct movements due to muscle fatigue are wrongly interpreted in the brain as movement of the perceived light.[1]

The amplitude of the movements is also undefined. Individual observers set their own frames of reference to judge amplitude (and possibly direction). Because the phenomenon is labile, it has been used to show the effects of social influence or suggestion on judgements. For example, if an observer who would otherwise say the light is moving one foot overhears another observer say the light is moving one yard, then the first observer will report that the light moved one yard. Discovery of the influence of suggestion on the autokinetic effect is often attributed to Sherif (1935), but it was recorded by Adams (1912), if not others.

Alexander von Humboldt observed the phenomenon in 1799 while looking at stars with the naked eye, but thought it was a real movement of the stars. Thus, he named them "Sternschwanken", meaning "swinging stars". It was not until 1857 that G. Schweitzer (Schweitzer, 1857), an early German psychologist, discovered that it was a subjective phenomenon. Many sightings of UFOs have been attributed to the autokinetic effect when looking at stars or planets.

The US Navy started studying autokinesis in 1945 in an attempt to explain vertigo experiences reported by pilots, but this "kinetic illusion" is now categorized as a vestibular-induced illusion: see vestibular system.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now, like La Plume, when I saw a zig-zagging light it wasn't just a slight "swinging" back and forth, it was, or so it appeared to me, proceeding forward, somewhat rapidly, but in a zig-zag. The Autokinetic effect therefore, for me, only offers a partially satisfying explanation. La Plume does, during his explanation, refer to it, briefly, as a satellite, could be another Freudian slip? Could be what he thinks it is, or suspects it is, or what he has learned to live with it being...I don't know, I just assume he is far better informed in this than I am. I find it hard to correlate what I saw with a satellite...I don't know all that much about satellites though. High speed, high altitude aircraft though, I could perhaps work with. That an otherwise straight flight path could, via the autokinetic effect, create the dramatic zig zagging visual that La Plume describes.

Anyone that can elucidate on that for me would be appreciatively received. Thanks.

a reply to: mirageman

You really are trying to send me to Hull and back now aren't you?


But you could be missing out on excitement! There is supposedly something re a new witness. Added with that you are missing out rubbing shoulders with a few famous ones in the field!

Never mind, save yourself , the radio shows are coming thick and fast with Gary and Jim.

There is another one pending.

I forgot the binary is almost a banned subject on ATS. So I will whisper it, or is that Zondos latest party line? Something about letting the truth whisper 😁.

originally posted by: Baablacksheep
a reply to: mirageman

You really are trying to send me to Hull and back now aren't you?


But you could be missing out on excitement! There is supposedly something re a new witness. Added with that you are missing out rubbing shoulders with a few famous ones in the field!

But it is Hull.

Annndd it's in John Prescott's old constituency...the only reason to go to East Hull is to catch the ferry out of there or to get sent down...or Spiders.

IMO

a reply to: AdamE

I am intrigued by "forbidden reflections". I must try understanding crystallography.