Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

What really, really bugs me, is Dr Green stating that the treatment, or lack thereof, received by Burroughs was something that the intelligence (or whatever) community should be ashamed of. What exactly are they proud of (in the genre of their activities)? How do you take a directive that instructs to debunk, such as that suggested by the Robertson Panel Report in 1953, reports of UFOs amongst the wider public, yet encourages militaries to better identify actual UAP, and turn that into this state of affairs that we have today? In following orders to infiltrate UFO groups, did agents get swayed, or did they just realise they had a group of individuals on whom they could play with, psychologically, and that got out of hand - all because they wanted to cover up their nefarious activities?

These are the "bad" guys by any definition of the term, and personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with any "alien" that wanted anything to do with these people. Their game may be a success, but really, is Dr Green proud of any that? Are we supposed to believe that any of this was for the greater good? Either these people never learn or they know that "we" never do either...perhaps both, perhaps they really do believe their own hype, indoctrinated into them as kids then reinforced when they join the services. It should be clear to at least some of them though that whatever "power" it is that they are dealing with is not "higher", it is intent on destroying the ability of this planet to sustain life. Is that how they justify polluting and raping the planet of it's resources, of having a complete disregard for all life, not just human? The "aliens" say we have to, and they say we have to get away with it scott-free and pass the clean-up cost to the customer rather than take responsibility ourselves. Really? You guys, what would Jesus say?

Rant over.

The merry-go-round round continues, TTSA, dna, kit green and all the lovely theosophy connections with all involved, Lockheed, time travelling aliens,quantum atmospheric anomalies, cobra Mist,classified radar systems...blah blah blah blah blah.

What were the lights in the forest and why were service men irradiated....??

It's angry Tuesday again so please accept my apologies upfront.. all of the above deserves investigation but...most of the above is a sideshow/sidestep that seems to have distracted most..from what the hell was it in the forest over 3/4 days....

a reply to: pigsy2400

This might excite you. You can also buy a Geiger counter.

m.facebook.com...

a reply to: pigsy2400

Trees...start with what you know for certain.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Another point of view on the "bad guys" (not mine but a respected journalist in the field)

When the 1989 stories about Lazar and Area 51/S-4 exploded on a massive scale, I was fortunate to get a call from a Las Vegas businessman named Bob Bigelow, who is an amazing –and greatly misunderstood person. He told me he was interested in the subject and wanted to know how he could help.

I had no idea he would subsequently create an elite scientific team–NIDS–and that I would get to meet and interact with…. truly remarkable people like Colm Kelleher, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, Edgar Mitchell, Eric Davis, John Alexander, Jacques Vallee, and many others who do not want their names to be made public. It was a mind-blowing and humbling experience. For years, I was allowed to be a fly on the wall for much of what they pursued back then, including their investigation of a Utah property that would later be known as Skinwalker Ranch. NIDS has been described as a UFO research organization. That doesn’t even come close...

...It is understandable why some people want to connect the dots and assume that all of these people are involved in the same ongoing plot, but that is simply not true, in my opinion. I have great respect for Mr. B, and for the work done by NIDS, and I think this subject matter is lucky to have people like Hal Puthoff and Chris Mellon and Lue Elizondo who are STILL willing to risk their personal and professional reputations in the pursuit of this bewildering and frustrating mystery.

Full interview : www.uapinfo.net...

I prefer to call them "mad" guys myself. I think they are trying to convince people that there really are 'aliens, Atlantis was real etc.' and people have special powers. Maybe they even believe that? Having wasted tons of money doing so (and so far having failed) they've decided on a new angle. Now it's all about infiltrating our 'consciousness' and in this way they will conquer the world and make us all believe in fairy tales. Quantum magic in your head so you can get "To the Stars" without a spaceship.

One thing we do know is that there are links to the "To the Stars" enterprise and this group of 'chums' who seem to always work with one another. They also seem to have slowly but surely got the 'voices of ufology' in line as well. Burroughs, Howe, Dolan and many others were slamming TTS in the early days. Now they are all supportive of this project and it seems under NDAs (Bob Bigelow style). So the Ministry of TTSA Truth can continue with its mission having neutralized the dissenting voices of the UFOtainers.

Rendlesham is part of this manipulation and has been for a long time. There are people out there messing with UFO stories and have been for a long time for their own purposes.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
The merry-go-round round continues, TTSA, dna, kit green and all the lovely theosophy connections with all involved, Lockheed, time travelling aliens,quantum atmospheric anomalies, cobra Mist,classified radar systems...blah blah blah blah blah.

What were the lights in the forest and why were service men irradiated....??

It's angry Tuesday again so please accept my apologies upfront.. all of the above deserves investigation but...most of the above is a sideshow/sidestep that seems to have distracted most..from what the hell was it in the forest over 3/4 days....

And that seems to be the point compounded by the fact that the CIA and Army Intelligence have sought to actively obfuscate the direction of investigation by pushing forth an invented narrative. That narrative then appears to have sprouted legs and trotted off on it's own, and they seemingly now have no control of the monster that they helped build. The CIA are in a very active process now of trying to justify their existence with the NSA slowly usurping their dominance in the intelligence field, and no doubt the fact that they have created this situation is now a threat to national security because it has. As the Robertson Panel Report stated the debunking should have been aimed at limiting public interest and reducing the potential for the public to be susceptible to "clever hostile propaganda" from the Soviets. They seem to instead have taken on board the recommendation that "As in the case of conjuring tricks there is much less stimulation if the secret is known" and turned that into a pantomime so successful that no one was even willing, outside of UFO circles, to even contemplate it. Big, big lies. Goebbels would be proud, but then Goebbels could never have been Goebbels without the financial support of those Bostonian Brahmin and the other big US operators who have enjoyed a revolving door recruitment policy with the CIA.

I think if we want to understand RFI then the best place to start would be in looking again at what happened at Lakenheath-Bentwaters in August 1956 and see if that shed any light...because I think the whole RFI debacle is tainted beyond recognition, and potentially is just part of trying to spread the programming into the UK. They wanted to stop interest in UAP by creating an interest in UFOs, or some such nonsense. And now, they seem to want us to pay attention to UAP not UFOs...it's so confusing for sure, but I think alot of that, right now, is because nobody knows, not really. The pantomime is all there is to hang onto.

I don't know, angry Tuesdays aside, what would you suggest?

originally posted by: mirageman
One thing we do know is that there are links to the "To the Stars" enterprise and this group of 'chums' who seem to always work with one another. They also seem to have slowly but surely got the 'voices of ufology' in line as well. Burroughs, Howe, Dolan and many others were slamming TTS in the early days. Now they are all supportive of this project and it seems under NDAs (Bob Bigelow style). So the Ministry of TTSA Truth can continue with its mission having neutralized the dissenting voices of the UFOtainers.

Rendlesham is part of this manipulation and has been for a long time. There are people out there messing with UFO stories and have been for a long time for their own purposes.

Back in the good ol'days, after visiting a fair ground, a particularly gullible individual, pockets empty, would return home, remove his coat and find a spot of chalk on his back, and then he'd know he was a "mark". Now we have whole systems of "grooming" that turn people into marks in ways that are invisible to most. Everyone wants to be "special", everyone wants to believe, particularly in this #ed up world, that someone will save us. Marks.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Too true...

People approach subjects such as this with a confirmation bias in place so strong that they will only search for the answers that back up their bias.

It isn't often you will find people that dont have one in place and are prepared to change it.

Keeping an open mind and denying your own ignorance is something we should all do and not expect to be spoon-fed the answers to everything, especially when the narrative is always driven by the same old boys club over and over in uapology / ufology, it can all be traced back to pretty much the same old bunch..

a reply to: mirageman

The problem is you're dealing with non-existential phenomena and people are still talking about what they believe in were no rules apply...

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
It seems that a fair few have and genuinely believe the stories fabricated, first by Puharich and subsequently by Doty. Which of course then leads us to TTSA and my wondering whether they are trying to do the same again, create a sphere of influencial story-tellers, or whether they are true believers in the long game.

Tangled webs indeed.

And tangled I think describes the answer to influential story-tellers vs true believers. It appears we have a strange brew of both of those separately or in concert with the various ubiquitous players and the ubiquitous mythology created since Roswell and Rendlesham to some degree.

The more I look at folk like Puthoff, Green, and Alexander the more I see how busy they stay as contractors and the kind of research they are actually doing throughout the years. The T.I.G.E.R. study has been mentioned before as an example but it's really much more than that example alone. It actually evokes MK-ULTRA and associated programs with no exaggeration.

If we refer back to Gus Russo's excellent article Is Uncle Sam a Closet UFOlogist and the follow up by the Reality Uncovered team it's pretty clear Kit Green was studying (and presumably testing) the spread of memes at about the time he was found wrapped up in the spread of SERPO. With Doty and Puthoff no less. Not to mention MRI work in looking at brain activity for interrogation purposes/lie detecting. Dr. Green with his background as, basically, the equivalent of Sidney Gottlieb's position at the CIA is most assuredly looking for answers to questions that don't have much to do with UFOs in reality but the UFO community makes one heck of a test bed.

The military-industrial complex is about one thing: Full-spectrum dominance.---whatever the longtime intelligence assets are working on almost assuredly has to do with that.

You are always a pleasure to read and consider, KT.

a reply to: The GUT

The more I look at folk like Puthoff, Green, and Alexander the more I see how busy they stay as contractors and the kind of research they are actually doing throughout the years.

And John Burroughs is in the thick of it.

a reply to: The GUT

It's not often I'll disagree with something you wrote GUT. Perhaps I'm missing something? I'll add as a foreword that I don't know and have never spoken to Dr Green, so I've no skin in this.

Dr's Green, Puthoff, Moore, Alexander et al were firmly on the outside during the 70s, 80s, 90s. They were the ones trying to get into the 'inner circle'.

Back in 70s Dr Green, like many others could not have predicted that diaries would be written by Jacques Vallee, interviews would be done, and statements made. He certainly couldn't have guess that it would also become 1) Machine searchable 2) Available to anyone in seconds at the click of a mouse.

So, I think it's reasonable to take what Richard Kennet / Green say as either being the product of someone using ufology as a cover, or genuinely trying to get on the inside. Regardless, what emerges is, in my opinion, a consistent personality.

- He is skeptical but curious
- Religious to a degree but not fundamentalist
- Does not lie, but will mislead by omission
- Straightforward

I don't think it's reasonable to believe or to expect Dr Green to have manipulated every interaction he's had for the last 40-50 years. I'm not trying to say he doesn't do things that we might find less than palatable, but to compare him to Gotleib?

There must be something more you know.

Here are the options I see:

1) An Honest Appraisal

Dr Green is chasing the SkinWaker by proving Quantum coherence between two minds, and using that to trap whatever it is that lives on this planet with us. John Burroughs was injured by terahertz and Gamma radiation, but Dr Green chose to emit the gamma part. Puthoff did not.

He's spent 40 years working his way towards the core story. He simply had more ability and opportunity to do this than most of us.

2) A Long Game

Every single action of Dr Green has been counter to what he's told us, Vallee etc. He's not trying to get to the centre of the core story, he's using it for something else.

in this scenario, John was not injured by something unearthly. His pending legal action could create a class action suited that is why Dr Green stepped in to help him and make the legal action unnecessary.

Skinwalker is nothing to do with anything paranormal. It's a place to test liars.

Which is It?

I'm going for option 1 GUT, but I take it you are going for option 2?

In which case, what happened to the men behind the curtain in he 70s / 80s who were causing Green and Super Friends to chase their tails and follow disinformation?

a reply to: Baablacksheep

How is he in the thick of it? They got his dna through quote unscrupulous means according to John. Motives are important here, as are yours.

If I had a dodgy ticker and getting help meant being alive longer, would I play along to get the help needed to live longer... Hell yeah.

They got his dna / tissue samples through dodgy ways, then re-approached him to ask permission to use it once they already had it.

I don't see how Burroughs fits in to the old boys club of the occult,theosphy and government contracts to study weird stuff in the sky and it's defence / military applications aside from the fact he was half cooked in the forest all those years ago and the old boys want to study him as nothing more than a data set.

Maybe they told him what he wanted to hear to get that permission in terms of the dna....

Again....it all comes down to motives....some are clear with theirs, some are not.

a reply to: pigsy2400

We will have to see what the future brings re all of this Pigsey.

a reply to: pigsy2400

I don't see how Burroughs fits in to the old boys club of the occult,theosphy and government contracts to study weird stuff in the sky and it's defence / military applications aside from the fact he was half cooked in the forest all those years ago and the old boys want to study him as nothing more than a data set.

Maybe they told him what he wanted to hear to get that permission in terms of the dna....

I doubt he has the qualifications or the inclination to be one of the 'old boys'.

He certainly spent time in Austin, Texas with the "Hoff" at EarthTech and has been privy to a number of papers provided to him though.

He's confirmed as much in a recent interview.

kgraradioarchives.com...

Although be aware that Linda Moulten Howe conducts it..in...her....use..you..al...robotic...style. I know this irritates lots of people. She also, as usual attempts to introduce various bogus stories into the narrative. But I'm sure you can spot them coming a mile off by now.

The overriding message coming from it all is that they've both been conquered by the power of TTSA. They are now bigger fans than George Knapp!

a reply to: mirageman


1) Reach out attempt
2) Offer of access / interviews / scoops
3) NDA

Rinse / Repeat.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: pigsy2400

Although be aware that Linda Moulten Howe conducts it..in...her....use..you..al...robotic...style. I know this irritates lots of people. She also, as usual attempts to introduce various bogus stories into the narrative. But I'm sure you can spot them coming a mile off by now.

She does sound like a female Dalek.

I heard LMH's interview with Doty when she threw in that faked Rendlesham report which she knew damn well was nonsense, but didn't tell her audience. Since Doty had scammed her in the past, was she attempting to string Doty up because he was pushing a document he'd seen in the mid-80s that correlated with the fake one? If so, why not inform the listeners as soon as Dick was off the air? Basically she didn't give a stuff for the sake of UFOtainment, even though many listeners were surely waiting for LMH to seek her 'revenge'. But no. Doty then reels off stuff about Roswell being True etc and waves goodbye.

Disgraceful really. I haven't heard her voice since and probably never will again. I've only had four months to catch up on the modern state of Ufology - mainly via lurking on ATS - and it's pretty appalling. And I only know the half of it, I suspect. Eg, Kit Green's role is a complex maze I'm only just getting my head around. In fact, my head is starting to hurt.

"Entertainingly depressing soap opera" is an alternative description for Ufology that certainly sums up Rendlesham.

originally posted by: ctj83
... I'm not trying to say he doesn't do things that we might find less than palatable, but to compare him to Gotleib?

I should have been more clear but I only referred in this instance to Kit's position/title at the CIA being the equivalent of Gottlieb's---there was some reorganization and a change of title after Gottlieb.

However, I do have my suspicions and, speaking of Gottlieb, did you know it was Gottlieb that gave Kit the funds to kick-start the Remote Viewing research? All that research fell under the 'Human-Use Experimentation" designation as well. Drove a few folk cray-cray in the process.

Kit was also an associate of Dr. Jolyon West although I make no argument through association alone. But Kit was surrounded by folk he looked up to--scientists like himself--who were epicenter MK and Kit was picked by the CIA to continue the scientific mantle. Science in the IC and MIC is generally about weaponization (offensive & defensive.)

Dr's Green, Puthoff, Moore, Alexander et al were firmly on the outside during the 70s, 80s, 90s. They were the ones trying to get into the 'inner circle'...

In which case, what happened to the men behind the curtain in he 70s / 80s who were causing Green and Super Friends to chase their tails and follow disinformation?

You seem to assume there was an inner circle to get into. The main man behind the curtain I readily see in the 70's is Hal Puthoff. Not that he was covering up for any UFO reality but he did seem to come in playing games. Why he was, if he was, remains murky.

I think members of what we might call 'Team Bigelow' have varied reasons and beliefs and motives. I don't suggest one simple solution to what all they might be up to, but I do suggest they are yet again contracting in their current endeavors and it's probably not about revealing the hidden truth about ufos.

a reply to: The GUT

Very very interesting reply GUT.

You seem to assume there was an inner circle to get into. The main man behind the curtain I readily see in the 70's is Hal Puthoff.

I'm assuming that they assumed that, rather than being disingenuous.

Where do you think Roswell came from? I suspect that there are elements of it and the the RFI that were intentionally stoked or manufactured (Steve Roberts in the RFI).