Noah

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Seriously ... the facts are overwhelming that Noahs Ark didn't happen.
Bottom line - The movie Noahs Ark can be told any way Hollywood wants.
It's all fiction anyways ....

So... the flood could have been local and back thousands of years ago that would have seemed to be the entire world at the time. I there have been some good theories presented stating that was a possible event. Unlikely, yet possible in a catastrophic, local way.

The two biggest problems with the Noah story are not related to the flood but with the animals and with God him/herself.

Let's start with God- Are you really going to tell me that in the entire world there was not a single child that was worthy of being saved? They were all like Damian from the Omen? I do believe in God, but not one who would kill children in such a way. That's a horrible excuse for a god. If there was a flood, it would seem much more likely that one of the God's/Aliens of the Sumerian's flooded the world to stop the human from uprising against them.

The second issue is the animals. Bill Nye said it best when he asked why there weren't any Kangaroos or Kangaroo fossils or artwork depicting them in any other place on earth except Australia. How did they get there from the middle east and if they did travel the world, jump in the ocean and swim to oz, did they leave all their other mates behind? LIke, bury them so there was no evidence. Pretty intelligence and devious for the Kanga, right? Now, that's just one animal.

reply to post by boncho


Best comment in this thread!!!

I say we blame the homo erects

I think Noah's Flood did occur

Based on the earliest, Mesopotamian, version, I think a major storm - possibly even a tropical cyclone - ran up the Persian Gulf and hit the coast of Mesopotamia. Severe gales, torrential rain and a storm surge occurred. Which is exactly what the Atrahasis story describes.

No doubt many people survived. But their accounts of the storm became enshrined in popular story, a story later taken to Caanan where it got incorporated into the various myths and legends that formed the Pentatech. Meantime, some goat herders on Mount Ararat discovered a geological formation that, to their eyes, looked liked the outline of a boat.....

And thus a myth was born.

amazing
Are you really going to tell me that in the entire world there was not a single child that was worthy of being saved?

If you read a little further from the flood, you'll see that it looks like at least Noah, Noahs' son Ham, and/or Noah's grandson Canaan, weren't exactly sinless people. Ham saw 'Noah's nakedness' after Noah passed out drunk. And when Noah woke up from his drunken stupor and realized that his son Ham saw him passed out naked, Noah cursed Hams son. That's extreme. Looks like Noah, after waking from his drunk'n pass-out, accused Ham of homosexual rape. Read the passages.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Fan, I'll be the first to say it.
I got no quams with you anywhere personally.
But you make the mistake of believing in facts
that turn tail on a dime. And it's always been
that way with science. I respect your higher
education and knowledge. But you are in
uncharted territory. The story Moses wrote
down is the refreshed truth God had
him write down. It is Gods word. It is scripture
and all your facts do not nor ever will, add up to
God. Period.

Agree to disagree and be friends? I'm all for it.

For the record I did read a lot of the stuff
referred to or linked too. Most of it I've already read.
I'll agree your arguement is amoung the strongest.
But it could never be strong enough and I won't
apologize for that.

reply to post by randyvs

The story Moses wrote
down is the refreshed truth God had
him write down.

Apparently God had the Sumerians write it down too... before Moses...

perhaps that's just a coincidence though

reply to post by Akragon


Ak, get it right now. I said what Moses wrote down was the refreshed
truth of the flood. After the story was perverted thru many generations
including the Sumarians. Sorry you fell for that.

randyvs
reply to post by Akragon

 

Ak, get it right now. I said what Moses wrote down was the refreshed
truth of the flood. After the story was perverted thru many generations
including the Sumarians. Sorry you fell for that.

Uhm... are you saying Noah's story is correct, and the earlier one is not?

Even though they are the same story?

reply to post by Akragon


I'm saying Moses account is correct period.

randyvs
reply to post by Akragon

 

I'm saying Moses account is correct period.

Fair enough...

it was copied from an older myth, which makes the Sumerian version correct as well...

Glad we cleared that up... Fortunately the evidence Flyersfan has presented is correct as well

I don't get why Christians have to accept these silly myths in the first place... It has no bearing on Jesus...

And its not even your book... Unless you're of the Judaic faith of course

randyvs
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Fan, I'll be the first to say it.
I got no quams with you anywhere personally.
But you make the mistake of believing in facts
that turn tail on a dime. And it's always been
that way with science. I respect your higher
education and knowledge. But you are in
uncharted territory. The story Moses wrote
down is the refreshed truth God had
him write down. It is Gods word. It is scripture
and all your facts do not nor ever will, add up to
God. Period.

Wait, you say that science isn't credible because it changes its mind on things all the time (happens when new evidence comes to light allowing scientists to update current theories and hypotheses), then say that the bible is more credible because it refuses to change its mind despite OVERWHELMING evidence that contradicts it? That is highly illogical.

Agree to disagree and be friends? I'm all for it.

For the record I did read a lot of the stuff
referred to or linked too. Most of it I've already read.
I'll agree your arguement is amoung the strongest.
But it could never be strong enough and I won't
apologize for that.

Actually her argument is the strongest argument presented for that time period, including even your precious bible. While the following statement is true in that there is no way that we will ever know what ACTUALLY happened back then short of a time machine, that doesn't mean that your far LESS probable explanation of things can hold a candle to her explanation. You are also admitting to disregarding evidence that flyersfan presented and just dismissing it offhand without even reviewing it all while saying "Nope it's not true, bible is right." As far as debate goes, that is pretty insulting to flyersfan despite your claims of friendship.

reply to post by Akragon


Apparently by what you said you accept as well.

Nice try with that confusing Noah with Moses lil game tho.

That was cool.

Krazysh0t

The Earth Canopy? By that are you referring to the vapor canopy hypothesis? You know, that crazy biblical claim that if it were true would crush every single land animal on the planet into red paste?

First, let us look at atmospheric pressure. For the earth's atmosphere, the pressure is almost exactly hydrostatic, since it is held to the earth by gravity and velocities are too low to significantly change the pressure. In plain language this means that the air pressure at any point is equal to the weight of the air in a unit area column above that point. At sea level, air pressure in US engineering units is about 14.5 pounds/sq inch because a column of air one inch square extending to the top of the atmosphere weighs (Guess what!?) 14.5 pounds. On top of Mt. Everest, the pressure is lower because the lowest and densest 9km of the atmosphere is below that point.

Now the "vapor canopy" would form a part of the atmosphere, being a body of gas (water vapor) gravitationally held to the earth. It would in fact be most of the pre-flood atmosphere. There would have to be enough vapor to form 9km of liquid, when condensed, and, therefore the vapor would weigh as much as 9km of water. The pressure at the earth's surface, where Noah and family lived, would be equal to one atmosphere PLUS the weight of a 9km column of water of unit area. This is equivalent to the pressure 9km deep in the ocean. What is this pressure? Well, each 10m of water is roughly equivalent to one atmosphere, so the pressure would be 900 atmospheres. The atmosphere would also have a composition of about 900 parts water vapor to one part of what we call air today.

No,

But similar.

God Bless,

randyvs
reply to post by Akragon

 

Apparently by what you said you accept as well.

Nice try with that confusing Noah with Moses lil game tho.

That was cool.

Wait, what?

Who do you think wrote Genesis? OR at least who is claimed to have written it...

I didn't confuse anything... and I didn't say either were true

Notice I said... MYTH

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Wait, you say that science isn't credible because it changes its mind on things all the time (happens when new evidence comes to light allowing scientists to update current theories and hypotheses), then say that the bible is more credible because it refuses to change its mind despite OVERWHELMING evidence that contradicts it? That is highly illogical.

Negative! What I do believe and have really said nothing of,
is that one day science will change it's mind enough to have
come full circle and agee with what the Bible said all along.
It's already happened actually in a number of instances I
can't quite recall.

reply to post by Akragon


Moses wrote Genesis.

What I noticed is this

which makes the Sumerian version correct as well...

randyvs
reply to post by Akragon

 

Moses wrote Genesis.

that is the claim... so where did I confuse you?

reply to post by Akragon

Uhm... are you saying Noah's story is correct,

Noahs storyI don't know of a story that Noah tells altho there may be some
that didn't survive. Moses and therefore Gods story includes Noah but.....

randyvs
reply to post by Akragon

 

Uhm... are you saying Noah's story is correct,

Noahs story

Is it not the story about Noah and the ark?

I didn't say he wrote it...