Noah

reply to post by randyvs


Better with a sheep in wolf's hide than a wolf in high heels, ey?

Tim who?

winofiend
I say lets give it a go. If it doesnt work out, then your god can have it back.

Cant hurt.

And it surely has to be better than how you religious folk have had things running.. abysmally.

This is EXACTLY God's plan.

"6 days shall you go about your own works..."

For 6000 years mankind was meant to design their own way of life apart from God Almighty (except those few "called out ones" who were worked with by God in this age for a great purpose). As you mentioned above mankind is supposed to "give it a go" during this 6000 year age.

Then after this age ends in the absolute certainty of destruction soon to take place. As a natural result of civilizations living life as they see fit by "giving it a go" without God. God will save us from self annihilation (WW3) and take ruler ship back (it was never ours to begin with), according to His perfect will.

"But the 7th day is the Sabbath of the Eternal, you shall not do your own works therein."

The next 1000 years mankind will no longer be allowed to "give it a go" in whatever manner they feel is right, the Kingdom of God will reign over all the Earth.

When all mankind is resurrected to physical life a second time at the end of the next 1000 year age. You will know for certain what the end of selfishly "giving it a go my way" apart from God is (WW3); and what doing it God's way ends in (peace, prosperity, love, life).

Where mankind errors is in the assumption that the "religious" folks of this age have anything to do with Almighty God and His eternal ways. False religion (99.9%) is part of "giving it a go" my way apart from God.

This age is ending in the manner it must, and God will take control when it is His time to do so in perfection.

Randy, as always your posts are wonderful and you are a man after God's own heart.

God Bless,

Not sure why people are arguing about whether Noah was real, the biblical version almost certainly is based on an older story, one of the oldest stories of Noah is in the Mahabharata. They however do not coniser him a paticularly wise or clever man, as his writings were very very negative towards women, and he is felt to have said alot of stupid things.

We always take Noah's existence as per the bible, however the flood myth exists all oveer the world and we know, that the planet does not hold enough water to flood all the land - so something is not as the story tells us.

I am surprised that no one seems, or I have not read it, to connect Noah's story to the sinking of Atlantis. We have myth about these two items but neither have been proved to have existed.

One fascinating thing is that Noah's Dad seemed concerned that Noah did not look like any child he could have fathered and the description also does not fit any modern people on the earth or, having been recorded as on the earth except for perhaps the Annanarki / Watchers. So I don't see either the relevance of the story of Noah because its virtually out of context and any form of physical possibility and does not fit the identity the Hebrews wanted to adopt.

WilsonWilson
Not sure why people are arguing about whether Noah was real, the biblical version almost certainly is based on an older story, one of the oldest stories of Noah is in the Mahabharata. They however do not coniser him a paticularly wise or clever man, as his writings were very very negative towards women, and he is felt to have said alot of stupid things.

what happened to the smart people?

reply to post by HumAnnunaki

There are many more questions including the ancient tale of Gilgamesh that supersedes
the Biblical tale of Noah. but you get the picture (I hope)

Do you get the picture ? The story of Noah is in the BIBLE hello ! And in the Bible
there is the concept of deity ( God ) right ? Are you with me here? Do I need to go on?

randyvs
reply to post by HumAnnunaki

 

There are many more questions including the ancient tale of Gilgamesh that supersedes
the Biblical tale of Noah. but you get the picture (I hope)

Do you get the picture ? The story of Noah is in the BIBLE hello ! And in the Bible
there is the concept of deity ( God ) right ? Are you with me here? Do I need to go on?

I think his point was that the Noah narrative of Genesis is but one of many similar stories probably based on the same event or tradition. The Sumerians have Utnapishtim, the Norse have Heimdall, and the Hebrews have Noah. Same story, different writers.

boncho
reply to post by randyvs

I would magine that when as the Bible says, sin entered the world everything changed. It's just
what he warned us of. Death became a part of life because sin became a part of the world and man
is a part of the world. Best I can do

 

Who sinned first, the neanderthals or the homosapiens?

The only ones who could have sinned. The ones we are today. You would call them homosapians. Something caused the others to die off. I seen a post above that would have referred to it as natural selection. Even in that case what he would call natural selection is some external force apart from us letting us have the best chance of survival.

There have been talk about homosapians and neanderthals reproducing so there is where Cain's bloodline started, and also answers the question of who he would have started a family with.

winofiend

boncho
Also, to elaborate where "messages from god" come from.

'Moses was high on hallucinogenic drug when he received Ten Commandments,' claims top academic

That bodes terribly for the sake of mother natures mystical fruits.

If it caused religion...

Oh god psilocybin.. whyyy...

What makes it not bode terribly is what happened afterward as Israel conquered there way to become a mighty nation being led by a person who was supposedly on a hallucinogen. Especially if it also gave he some type of power to do the kinds of things he did, like the walls of Jericho coming down.

Who sinned first ? Neanderthal or homo sapiens:

I want to add that a number of human species existed in human history. Although the first modern humans were almost certainly one species starting the Homo evolutionary tree.

A number of Home species where we found fossilized remains, have been identified as separate species, have now been considered part of only one, Homo Erectus .After new evidence was discovered recently.

Other Homo species, like Neanderthal and Denisovan etc. did not just died of and vanished. Evidence shows us that our human genome, is a result of a multitude of genetic mixtures, passing on every Homo species genetic diversity, ending up in us, in any number of different verities.

Basically it means that the human species that have been around in the past managed to survive and evolve into us, a single human species, creating a false idea of disappearing from the face of the Earth.
They gave birth to a changing species and their lineage died off, where there offspring lived on.

So the first question should be answered, for a big part.

Second question: Did we actually sin ?

According to the story of creation, we failed God , as we were seduced to defy God's will and it causes us to decide to trust our own judgment, what was polluted with the snakes arguments that caused us to doubt God basically.
We became aware of change when God returned, and our actions made us feel ashame and made us understand that we did wrong, defying God. As conscience sets in, making us fear what God would say or do with us. We also started to understand our lives would never be the same.

God of course isn't amused, and He says that we will now have to learn wrong from right "or good from evil" and that we know death. Etc.

I think that once we decided that eating the fruit of knowledge was something worth doing, what unwillingly made us defy God. What we became aware of soon enough though.

The moment we let ourselves choose to think for ourselves, is the trigger where conscience sets in and where we get separated from God, as our conscience becomes individual to ours selves.
As we will have to make our own choices, we will need to learn to make good choices. Experiencing right from wrong by facing the consequences of our actions, will make us learn and understand.

I think we did not sin as it is often said we did, but we got divided from God, when we started to think decide by ourselves.
This was our first step leading us away from God, causing awareness of ourselves as individual beings, creating our minds to become home to emotions, that affects our choices and how we do things.
We also got lifted above all other animals, and it makes us able to influence our environment creating changes to benefit our our needs.

In my opinion it wasn't any sin that made God so angry at us that He kicks us out of paradise and that He won't be around for us anymore, like before.

We set something in motion, that changed our lives. It made us individual beings, separated from God and Nature.
Our ban from paradise was not a punishment for our sin, from God.
Our place besides God in the world He created for us, can be explained to be in paradise.
Paradise got lost for us to exist in, as we got separated from it, as a result of our individual existence, placing us above nature being able to create changes to it.
Since paradise was already perfect. Any chances we cause would make it less perfect, touched by our imperfect existence...

We will also remember our past and this creates a new change. We become aware of the time, and our thoughts will also expand to our future. We will experience old age and death because of our awareness of time, as the short period of time passing by, for our lives being lived, right to the end of time, with death.
As we understand time and the increased value our lives mean to us, knowing it won't last.

We can't turn back to our former existence. We aren't responsible for our place away from God.
We can't do nothing wrong either in our quest to learn right from wrong. As long as we learn to understand.

As logically as my thoughts explain our place in life, and linking us to a biblical origin in Paradise with God...
I can't begin to conceive anything that explains what Jesus is offering to the picture, for us to be able to find our way back to God again.
I will explain it as it is. A divine miracle.

PS

I'm sorry for the long read. I seem unable to express myself in a more direct and moderate way.

Sinter Klaas
Who sinned first ? Neanderthal or homo sapiens:

The only Homo species alive today is Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Homo Sapiens was a lot smaller than us, and not nearly as clever or ingenuitive. Homo Sapiens and Homo Neanderthalis predates Modern Man by aeons.

Utnapisjtim

Sinter Klaas
Who sinned first ? Neanderthal or homo sapiens:

The only Homo species alive today is Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Homo Sapiens was a lot smaller than us, and not nearly as clever or ingenuitive. Homo Sapiens and Homo Neanderthalis predates Modern Man by aeons.

Correct. What makes you repeat something I already mentioned.

I must correct you on one thing though.

The assumption about us being more intelligent, or more clever then our ancestral predecessors, is funded on our arrogance, that makes us think, that there can't be more intelligent and developed people then us, let alone they could have been around, before we did.
And out dated theories about human history.

Recently an archaeological find, caused the development of advanced tools and weapons, to be pushed back some 500.000 years back in human history.

The human brain works differently from animals. They way our neurons communicate with others.
What will cause short and direct neural pathways from one group of neurons, to other groups of neurons in animals.
Works a lot different in humans. Because of the increase of brain matter, that causes neural pathways to get to long to be effective, and isolates groups of neurons far away of others, which was part of recent study, showed that the isolated neurons, are no longer communicating by using old neural pathways, actually started communicating with other places in the brain, which is not done by replacing old neural pathways at all. There are new areas of the brain being reached, that create whole new connections, and this continuous work is also expanding out to other area's creating better, more advanced and self improving communications system.

It is what divides us from animals. This brain make up is no recent upgrade though, studies suggest the same brain make up, has already been a part of our human history, since the early human development.

The miss conception about us being able to venture out in space, and calculate complex mathematical theories, is not caused by a higher intelligence.
The accumulative build up of knowledge, and technological development of our time, is a result of only a short time that started when we started an industrial revolution.
The rate of our advancing tech and increasing knowledge has been speeding up ever since. Caused by the advancing capabilities of passing on and the way it gets processed.

There is nothing that would have made it impossible for even the early human species from the beginning of history, to form a society similar to ours, develop a complex use of tools or even create advanced tech, only limited by their own accumulative knowledge.

There aren't set limits that could have blocked early humans, from reaching an advanced way of life.

The amount of time in between, will have caused nothing to be left for us to find, that suggests any prove of it ever happening in the past.

The only stuff left that we found being evidence of ancient societies in human history... Gets us no further then 7000 years for the Sumerian culture, identified as oldest known culture in human history.
Old stones show even older evidence of people around at the time.

Everything from the ice age and older is a black whole in our knowledge of human history. Cause only stone from after the ice age survived the passing of time.

Sinter Klaas

Utnapisjtim

Sinter Klaas
Who sinned first ? Neanderthal or homo sapiens:

The only Homo species alive today is Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Homo Sapiens was a lot smaller than us, and not nearly as clever or ingenuitive. Homo Sapiens and Homo Neanderthalis predates Modern Man by aeons.

Correct. What makes you repeat something I already mentioned.

Sorry, I must have missed that.

I must correct you on one thing though.

The assumption about us being more intelligent, or more clever then our ancestral predecessors, is funded on our arrogance,

Aye to that. My point was that Homo Sapiens and Homo Neanderthalis are extinct. However, we carry many of their genes within our Homo Sapiens Sapiens genome. They may have been on the Moon and may have used computers and built skyscrapers, but all that's left of that is now dust and rust. So you are correct, earlier hominids may indeed have been as intelligent or even brighter than us. Naturally. I was being arrogant. In Rig Veda and the Upanishads ancient civilisations predating our own by several hundred millennia are discribed. Apparently, 200,000 years ago, according to the Indus records, we travelled the skies with air vehicles that had several decks and sounded like roaring waterfalls. Makes me wonder.....

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I tell you all, nothing rewards me more, than to initiate intelligent
debate with one of my threads. I learn so much this way. Good work
you guys.

randyvs
I tell you all, nothing rewards me more, than to initiate intelligent
debate with one of my threads. I learn so much this way. Good work
you guys.

Hehe, your kind words seemed to puncture the discussion somehow. Oh, the irony! "It's son bearable....."

reply to post by randyvs


I can add sources. I usually don't unless it's requested.

I do not like to suck my posts from my imaginary thumb, if it's up to me.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Irony is a speciality served up and dressed well in a word salad
threaded with a choice of cheeses.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas



long post, i will address this part;

" Other Homo species, like Neanderthal and Denisovan etc. did not just died of and vanished. Evidence shows us that our human genome, is a result of a multitude of genetic mixtures, passing on every Homo species genetic diversity, ending up in us, in any number of different verities. "

how could they breed together if they are different species?

especially so far apart geographically and in time.

i mean wouldn't we be talking asia, africa and europe?
big area to meet up and start families.

tsingtao
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

long post, i will address this part;

" Other Homo species, like Neanderthal and Denisovan etc. did not just died of and vanished. Evidence shows us that our human genome, is a result of a multitude of genetic mixtures, passing on every Homo species genetic diversity, ending up in us, in any number of different verities. "

how could they breed together if they are different species?

especially so far apart geographically and in time.

i mean wouldn't we be talking asia, africa and europe?
big area to meet up and start families.

But the different members of the genus Homo weren't really isolated geographically let alone chronologically. There are long periods of overlap in which the were as many as 6 contemporary versions of Homo trotting the globe from subsaharan Africa to Siberia. Homo Erectus can be dated back to 1.8 million years ago and survived until approximately 750,000 YA. Neanderthal and Denisovan diverged from Erectus about 500,000 YA with Neandertal hanging on until at least 30,000 YA and Homo Sapiens emerged about 250 to 300,000 YA and don't forget H. floresiensis as well as the as yet undocumented lineage we can genetically tie to every member of the genus Homo. Both chronologically and geographically these people were contemporaries in many instances. One excellent example is in the Levantine Valley where we have discovered sites where Anatomically modern humans lived side by side with Neanderthals and likely worked together. W know this because they also buried their dead side by side in the same cemeteries and this would not have been done with people who had animosity towards one another. Breeding between humans and Neanderthals has been documented in the genetic record and it would seem that the fertile outcome only worked one way, male Neanderthal and modern human female. I'll see if I can find the paper to link. But essentially, there was enough genetic variation that our males couldn't produce fertile offspring with heir females but enough similarity for it to work in the opposite fashion. Whether we could have breed with H. Erectus is unknown but less likely than what has been seen in the Neanderthal population. As the time of divergence was similar for Denisovans it is entirely likely that there would be a similar chance of fertile offspring in relations between them and H. Sapiens. As an analogy lets look at dogs. We know a dachshund is not a wolf but the chances of a fertile offspring are very good. In another 100,000 yeArs that may no longer be so.

reply to post by peter vlar

There are long periods of overlap

Been think'n about your post here Peter, off and for a good part of
the day. And wouldn't you admit that the evidence for this" overlapping"
as you call it, this intermingling, living side by side, is at least detrimental
to the theory of evolution ? Evolution is described by science to look
completely liniar. Yet there is solid proof that it isn't It just seems so
much to me that this debate only adds up to a difference of perspectives.

One excellent example is in the Levantine Valley where we have discovered sites where Anatomically modern humans lived side by side with Neanderthals and likely worked together.

More and more I'm starting to think that neanderthals were just pre duluvian
human beings. And that they were a better human being. Stronger and more
intelligent. And you know there is evidence for it.