Billboards Declare Prayer, Bibles Not Helping Disaster Victims

reply to post by Grimpachi


it doesn't hurt to talk about it anyway. i have addressed the op at length. if you prefer i leave, that's fine. just give the word.

Grimpachi
reply to post by undo

 

That's a strawman and slippery slope rolled into one. Read the bible there have been plenty of leaders following gods will partaking in genocide.

my view of the bible is that the old testament should not have been attached to the new testament, as i think those are 2 entirely different gods, most of the time, between the old and new testament. so when people bring up stuff from the old testament, i tend to file it in the "complaints against enlil" category. and if it's stuff about the new testament, i file it under "complaints about enki" category.

Grimpachi
Well in this thread I am already vested. It started out civil enough but around page 6 it fell apart. Look I just had a major surgery to reconstruct damage from an IED 7 years ago I can’t go out I hate watching TV canceled cable years ago anyway. This is mild entertainment. On this site my alter ego comes out and it’s the only place I am vocal about atheism.

Most threads I post to bring things to light. This is one of the very few I participate in after the fact.

Ever thought about using your time and resources into creating things that may lead to a better life for yourself and everyone around you?

The amount of resources on the internet is quite astounding. I have been in the position you are in for over 5 years now (lots of serious health issues).

I have used my time to innovate, create, and invent things that will not only help myself, but anyone who wishes to use them.

You are obviously smart, articulate, and clever so what project are you using those tools on? Entertainment is good, and bringing others actions to light is good, but what are you trying to build? What legacy do you wish to leave in the world?

If it is to simply make some threads on ATS, I dont have an issue with that.. But, if you desire to accomplish different things, perhaps this is the time to start pursuing them! Perhaps it is time for all of us to start working in such a conscious way.

Grimpachi
reply to post by undo

 

That's a strawman and slippery slope rolled into one. Read the bible there have been plenty of leaders following gods will partaking in genocide.

i think stalin, all by himself, managed to kill more people than the rest of the history of mankind, including old testament events. then add hitler, pol pot, mao and the usa, and we're talking such a huge difference in the sheer magnitude of death tolls, it's mind boggling. the 20th century was both a human tragedy and a human victory. too bad the victory part had to have the tragedy part.

reminds me of tuskeegee. the soldiers experimented on. the children of vietnam who have birth defects from the effects of agent orange on the mothers and fathers. the atom bomb. iran, iraq, afghanistan, and on and on. all this misery and suffering. it's hideous.

reply to post by undo


Nah I am fine stay its all conversation to me.

reply to post by Serdgiam


Actually the past few years I have been traveling the world on and off volunteering in many places even religious ones sometimes a day or two before I leave I let it slip I am non believer it’s been met with mixed feelings sometimes I just let them think I am a believer all the way through. Once I heal up I plan on traveling back to Asia I have a few friends there I hope are safe which I haven’t heard from them since the disaster.

Ultimately though I plan on buying a sailboat large enough to run dive tours as I am a qualified dive master probably settling off the coast of Panama on some islands I have come to call a second home maybe even certifying as a dive instructor. Though I have a lifelong dream to join a research team for a winter in the Antarctic though I am not sure if I will be able to due to the injury. ATM I am buying time to get the stitches out.


Funny thing how you brought up bringing people together when I find stories like that I try to get conversations going. Strange how they never generate much interest. The one below is an example.



Free Thought Exchange brings atheists to church for dialogue


edit damn I am getting tired dumb spellcheck

reply to post by undo


I seriously doubt Stalin can match up to the bible in death. Hell one flood supposedly wiped out every living thing on earth besides what was on a boat. However keep in mind population explosion and technology in warfare has made killing all too easy.

Grimpachi
reply to post by undo

 

I seriously doubt Stalin can match up to the bible in death. Hell one flood supposedly wiped out every living thing on earth besides what was on a boat. However keep in mind population explosion and technology in warfare has made killing all too easy.

well now you've hit on a subject i know alot about. i'm afraid to tell you about it in your thread here because it wil deviate a great deal more from the op than it already has. that's one of the side effects of having someone make comments that you have info on but can't defend your knowledge about without screwing up the thread lol

let me know if you want to hear my info.

Grimpachi
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Actually the past few years I have been traveling the world on and off volunteering in many places even religious one sometimes a day or two before I leave I let it slip I am non believer it’s been met with mixed feelings sometimes I just let them think I am a believer all the way through. Once I heal up I plan on traveling back to Asia I have a few friends there I hope are safe which I haven’t heard from them since the disaster.

Ultimately though I plan on buying a sailboat large enough to run dive tours as I is a qualified dive master probably settling off the coast of Panama on some islands I have come to call a second home maybe even certifying as a dive instructor. Though I have a lifelong dream to join a research team for a winter in the Antarctic though I am not sure if I will be able to due to the injury. ATM I am buying time to get the stitches out.

Well, I hope you are able to pursue this. There are many options even if your injury doesnt heal. Data can be sent worldwide if you have the knowledge and expertise to parse it (thats part of what I do).

I wish you the best of luck in that!

Funny thing how you brought up bringing people together when I find stories like that I try to get conversations going. Strange how they never generate much interest. The one below is an example.

Free Thought Exchange brings atheists to church for dialogue

I commented in that thread too. The reality is, I think that too many people are embroiled in the division that the puppeteers have created. They would rather complain, rant on a blog, or start some meaningless petition rather than actually do anything themselves. Of course, those that do wish to take action tend towards violence. Its a rather simple thing to ingrain into a societal psyche (i.e. a cultural story).

Its really too bad..

Somewhere along the line working towards an ideal was made synonymous with being disconnected from reality. In fact, the manipulation of working towards an ideal works hand in hand with division.

I made the threads in my signature trying to start an open-source styled discourse on what I feel are some of the larger problems, and actual solutions that make a stronger nation. In general, it failed miserably. People are more interested, in general, of tearing down each other than building something together..

They should send them T-Shirts

"I lived through a typhoon and all I got was a lousy book!"

Grimpachi

zillah

Grimpachi
The main issue is getting the needed funds and help to those who need it and not diverting it to things for proselytization in a country that’s already in the top three of the world as being catholic. The organization is not saying don’t give they want you to give but they would like you to give to organizations that will provide the relief needed by those effected not just the type of relief you or a church would like them to have.

Just because many of them already are believers doesn't mean that Bibles and rosaries aren't appreciated. It's very uplifting, in times of trouble, for a Christian to be able to open his or her Bible and read passages that might raise their hope and spirits. It renews their faith in God and the Son.

Prayer only helps the one praying feel good about doing nothing. Last I checked prayer was free

I have only taken this portion of your post because you keep repeating it over and over again.

First, you are correct prayer is free, so it is something even poor people can do... Also, there is no tangible proof that being the recipient of prayer does nothing for you.

Granted, more research should be done on the topic, and some day it will be, but many in the scientific arena believe that you cannot discount being prayed for, because it just might be helpful. However, until we are advanced enough and have many many studies done on this topic, I do not believe it should be discounted as a means of helping others.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

For more about the author of that article: www.dosseydossey.com...

reply to post by undo


You know when I responded to you a star wars voice went off saying “it’s a trap”. But sure go ahead just know I am getting tired been up way to long.



I may need to set up voice recognition software if we keep this up because I never planned on typing throughout the night.

reply to post by Serdgiam


I am pretty well connected at least I was. Last time I was in Asia I was doing EOD work for villages strictly as an advisor lost sight in on eye years ago. However that was a one off thing I don’t want to stray back into if I can help it which I set things up where I can accomplish what I want to do if I stick to my plan. Still have some places I want to see but I have responsibility to family first. I am sure you can understand. This is my goofball time. I shouldn’t be doing much anyway being on pain meds. Hell my typing tells me I need to sleep but I am watching some stocks right now.

Anyway I may take you u on the offer once I feel better but for now I am just being a goof.

Grimpachi

ghostfacekilah00

Grimpachi
reply to post by ghostfacekilah00

 

The billboards did not cost the organization or its donors. So the message was posted without cost which means that's more money they can contribute to the cause.
_______________________________________________________________

After losing everything but the clothes on your back nothing feels up a stomach, provides shelter overhead, or keeps you warm like a bible and rosary. End sarcasm.

I don't have any problem with the ones actually helping but diverting money for bibles and rosaries is not helping and I doubt that 99% of the people who donated that money through those organizations thought it would be used that way.

edit on 26-11-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

Yeah I don't think you understand how billboards work. You have to pay a monthly fee for the billboard space. I'm guessing you're trying to make it seem like this atheist group spends 100% of its funds on disaster relief? Yeah right.

OK wow on page one I posted it twice and on page five I had to post again for someone who ignored page one and the article so here you go I have posted it again directly from page one. I wonder how many other people will fail to read this and make the same mistake.


This is from the source article.

The billboards did not cost the organization or its donors. So the message was posted without cost which means that's more money they can contribute to the cause.

BTW the group has not tried to become a separate entity and collect funds for the disaster relief instead they have set their page up and recommended/vetted worthwhile charity’s for people to donate to that way efforts and funds are not split up. There are other groups who would take advantage of the tragedy and set things up to take in money then funnel a percent of that to the worthwhile charity’s but places that do that are mostly lining their pockets. As I have already stated one of those they recommend donating to is religiously affiliated so the ones whining that this is about bashing religion are way off the mark.

It’s about getting help to people who need it not sending ice to Eskimos or the equivalent.

Yeah I saw where you said it didn't cost them any money to put billboards up. That's what I was responding to. First of all, chillax. Second, that is nonsense.

Saying that the massacres carried out by Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao had nothing to do with religion is simply ignorant. Most of the victims would not comply because of their religious beliefs.

ghostfacekilah00
Saying that the massacres carried out by Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao had nothing to do with religion is simply ignorant. Most of the victims would not comply because of their religious beliefs.

This is definitely true of Stalin who was himself raised to go into the Orthodox Priesthood from birth. He ruled over a region of the world which had the largest religious population in the Soviet Union at the time so his enemy immediately became the religious masses. Whatever made him a "monster" however was done to him in childhood and that as it turns out was a strictly religious upbringing.

-Peace-

"i help those who help themselves"

i guess in modern times, that means people know god/jesus won't give a crap until they submit to them first.

you want help? then just convert. its that easy.

OpinionatedB

Grimpachi

zillah

Grimpachi
The main issue is getting the needed funds and help to those who need it and not diverting it to things for proselytization in a country that’s already in the top three of the world as being catholic. The organization is not saying don’t give they want you to give but they would like you to give to organizations that will provide the relief needed by those effected not just the type of relief you or a church would like them to have.

Just because many of them already are believers doesn't mean that Bibles and rosaries aren't appreciated. It's very uplifting, in times of trouble, for a Christian to be able to open his or her Bible and read passages that might raise their hope and spirits. It renews their faith in God and the Son.

Prayer only helps the one praying feel good about doing nothing. Last I checked prayer was free

I have only taken this portion of your post because you keep repeating it over and over again.

First, you are correct prayer is free, so it is something even poor people can do... Also, there is no tangible proof that being the recipient of prayer does nothing for you.

Granted, more research should be done on the topic, and some day it will be, but many in the scientific arena believe that you cannot discount being prayed for, because it just might be helpful. However, until we are advanced enough and have many many studies done on this topic, I do not believe it should be discounted as a means of helping others.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

For more about the author of that article: www.dosseydossey.com...

Well currently there haven’t been any reliable excepted studies showing prayer has any physical recordable effect and instead of me saying until more studies are done on the subject I will go by the ones that have been done. You are more than free to hold your own opinion on the matter but recently I have posted a few articles on communities that only except faith healing and the statistics show they have the highest infant mortality rate in the country including a high rate of deaths from curable illnesses such as step, pneumonia, flu, and an assortment of other things most people consider minor now days. It isn’t working out to well for them.

In fact this article has some pretty horrifying cases in it. They are pretty heartbreaking.


I will stick with science based medicine. I was once asked if I preferred a religious surgeon and I told them no I want a surgeon who instead of leaving things in god’s hands thought he was god and had complete control. It worked out for me.
....signing off for a while.

ghostfacekilah00
Saying that the massacres carried out by Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao had nothing to do with religion is simply ignorant. Most of the victims would not comply because of their religious beliefs.

No you need to learn history from the proper source an dnot some parroted crap.

Since Stalin story is more recent i will discuss that(which goes with any political ideal of Pol Pot and Mao).

Stalin did not kill religious because he was an atheist. Stalin was about equality for all(communism) he saw religious leaders as self appointed higher class brought on by the Capitalist idea.. in order to unstablize communist Russia's equality.

he was against these "god" appointed leaders who demanded respects(he is well known in the arts of religion from the past). These higher people had nothing to fear except the "god", they were causing a split between people(against communist idea), to divide and conquer for the capitalist to take over. He would not bow to that.

Religious organization was not just simple thing, they had money and power, they could influence people to overthrow their government and have the land ready for plucking.

Communist during those times were not atheist, they were in fact a religious sect that put "god" above anything else, a good dictator cant let that happen.


But skip all of this and keep parroting that he killed because he thinks bald is a hair colour.

double post