Billboards Declare Prayer, Bibles Not Helping Disaster Victims

duck heads - flying bibles.

this was a low blow.

booooo.

Lucid Lunacy



You're insinuating that atheists, or at least the non-religous, don't hold life to be sacred. That's ludicrous and offensive.

Speaking of LUDICROUS . . .

Evidently you are claiming that

something totally devoid of any sort of SACRED FOUNDATION

somehow ends up with a SACRED value.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

THAT'S as absurd of pretending that Creation sprang from CHANCE PLUS TIME--in far too little time, as well--ONLY.

Yet you accuse Christians etc. of ludicrous notions.

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Yes, I realize that it's just as Francis Schaeffer in HOW SHOULD WE THEN LIVE noted that

when folks throw God on the trash heap . . . they end up God-izing

Nature . . . with a capital N.

Just as God predicted 2,000 years ago in His Scriptures . . . that man would give up worship of The Creator and begin to worship the creation.

Not much different than animists worshiping a sacred tree, really.

And they want us to call that ?! PROGRESS !?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Christ the Founder of Christianity made clear that words were cheap.

That it was not those who CLAIMED to be believers

who were God's kids . . .

but THOSE WHO DID THE WILL OF THE FATHER.

IF you think Hitler did the will of God . . . your thinking has far too many . . . absurdities to make dialogue on a thread like this remotely rational or doable.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by undo

 

. . . Atheism is simply the belief (non-belief) god(s) don't exist. That's it. That's all.

Are you really that . . . secluded in a deep dark cave somewhere?

Do you REALLY expect rational, aware, observant, informed, educated, bright folks to BELIEVE that?

You make it sound like that micro-slice of atheist reality is ALL THERE IS TO IT. What NONSENSE!

M M O'Hare sent me a copy of The American Atheist when I was working on my Dissertation.

I was shocked. All one needed to do was change a few keywords and it would read near 100% like a PENTECOSTAL EVANGELISTIC MAGAZINE. I was truly shocked.

Besides, this very thread DEMONSTRATES your assertion above to be absurdly false.

IF your assertion was true, there would be no back and forth over the OP.

All atheists would have to say was your simple super short assertion. Then, THEY'D BE DONE! They'd have no more to say!

But of course, most rational folks know that your simple assertion was absurd from the git-go.

Atheism has a whole host of dogma riding with a death-grip on it's coattails inherently part and parcel of the RELIGION of atheism.

If you don't recognize that, then you lack super tankers worth of insight contrary to the implications of your avatar section.

reply to post by masqua


All I was saying was that prayer, from those without the financial ability, or coupled with financial help, is not provably "worthless" for the victims. We just dont know that it doesn't do anything... and it least it is something, just a positive thought thrown their way... we don't know that it is worthless.

No one ever said even once that no one should donate, the religious usually donate the most in times of disaster...historically so.

but to say praying is nothing for them, is not demonstrably correct. What is wrong with praying for them too? Do people get that offended if someone prays for them?

Also, 90% of those disaster victims are catholic, so why berate the catholic church for giving Catholics bibles when they lost theirs? Is that not also a kindness?

If I lost everything I had, (and I have lost every possession before in a fire) and someone gave me a Quran I would be in tears of thankfulness for that... and if they did not know my religion and handed me a bible I would be thankful for that too because it is the thought that counts...And, to be honest, in a time like that I would probably even read it for whatever good words I could gain from it.

reply to post by wildtimes


Undo is right on his point... in the history of mankind there have never been any purely atheist societies that were not totalitarian in nature... also there are not any ones that did not kill a whole lot of people...

Atheists have only recently started charitable organizations, most or the majority springing up within the last 10 years or so and in my opinion it seems to have stemmed mainly from criticism from the religious folks who wondered out loud why the atheists did not do charity work like religious people do....

So now, atheists have some charities they donate to so they can compete with the religious people in charitable works... that's wonderful.. now atheists can and should stop complaining about what the religious folks do with their own money and their time...

If you want to do something different than the religious people, go ahead, but stop complaining. Its not a war...

oops

Oops

Eryiedes

nenothtu
Not so the atheists, apparently.

I am not in this fight at all but now I must point something out.
The video clip I posted IS an example of how atheists DO help out others in need.
Doug Stanhope saw the CNN clip in question and discovered that the local religious groups took affront to what the woman being interviewed had said and as a result were not inclined to help her despite helping other religious people in her neighborhood after the disaster.
Mister Stanhope (and other self-professed atheists) with the help of crowd sourcing got together and raised 125K (25K more than was needed) to help her build a new home for her and her family.
So, yes...apparently atheists do.

www.dougstanhope.com...

-Peace-

Well, the topic of the thread was an extrapolation of Catholic charity work in general, from a single incident involving the Catholic Bishop's Conference. I was simply pointing out that the extrapolation can go entirely the other way, with every bit as much substance to it. Furthermore, the whiner in question was the whiner who put HIS money where his mouth was, instead of into the mouths of those disaster victims, which is at the very least hypocritical.

I don't deny that atheists in general do charity work, nor do I deny that Catholics in general do charity work. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy in the actions of that single incident. I can say my silly non-Catholic ass has been fed by nuns in time of need, nuns who asked for nothing in return, not so much as a Hail Mary.

I have NOT been fed by atheists, but that was probably simply a function of them not being in the right place at the right time, rather than a lack of charity on their part. Therefore, I have no idea what they might ask in return.

Grimpachi
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Are you saying no one listens to the Pope? Hmm..I may have rethink a big chunk of history now.

It is in the OP. A lone sentence so it stands out.

They spent nothing. It didn't cost the organization a dime in the article I guess you missed it which I also repeated the third post down. You must have missed that one to but here it is for you again. Don't miss it now.
.

The billboards did not cost the organization or its donors. So the message was posted without cost which means that's more money they can contribute to the cause.

Third maybe fourth times a charm for some people. Bet it gets asked by someone else though.

My ass.

No one puts billboards up for free, no one prints the bills to post for free. No one makes the ink for free.

It cost someone.

I think there were better uses for that money.

However, it wasn't my money to waste, so I'm good with that.

I don't care if they spent it on billboards, I don't care if they spent it on strippers, I don't care if they bought farmland in Iowa with it - but don't trash someone else for how they spend their own money unless they are willing to face the same rap.

Eryiedes

OpinionatedB
Maybe because Atheists seem to be so full of hate they cannot appear to live and let live. Its my business what I do with my money, its others business what they do with theirs. Atheists seem to think they can dictate to others what to do..

I'm sorry but that is just a rank generalization.
It's just as wrong as if I were to accuse you of being the exact sort of religious person who'd deny help to an atheist tornado victem simply for identifying as a Christian.

-Peace-

edit on 27-11-2013 by Eryiedes because: Typo

"Rank generalization"?

Kinda like the conclusion we are supposed to draw from those billboards?

winofiend

nenothtu
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I gotta wonder how much atheists spent on those billboards in NJ...

"Disaster victims need billboards in New Jersey
.... real help"

it seems to me the issue is more about attacking Catholics, and not in the least about helping disaster victims. Now, I'm all for attacking Catholics - in a religious venue - but using the extreme misfortunes of others as a springboard for religious attacks is just... tacky. I'm not willing to diss the Catholics over how thy spend THEIR money unless I am also willing to allow my own finances to undergo the same scrutiny,

Not so the atheists, apparently.

edit on 2013/11/27 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Ahhhaha huurrr.. yeah the 'atheists' are wasting money that they are given as donations to help the victims of disaster, yeah. Oh wait, that's religion. sigh. religious folk are so blinded by their own stink they try to spread it around to everyone...

Kinda missed the point there. The atheists aren't wasting their money - they are spending it as they see fit, not my call to say if it was a waste or not, since it wasn't MY money.

It IS hypocrisy, however, to lambast someone else for spending THEIR money as they see fit, and spending YOUR OWN money as you see fit - namely to simply lambast them with...

"Ahhhaha huurrr" indeed....

The rest of the post WAS a pretty cute story, though. DId it have a bearing?

nenothtu
Therefore, I have no idea what they might ask in return.

If they are true atheists?
They won't ask for a thing.

-Peace-

Grimpachi

The reason the way they are towards atheists has nothing to do with money. It has more to do with being labeled devil worshipers, heathens and such for so long that and the fact we don’t believe in deity’s which people take personally as a rejection of themselves because god is merely a part of their psyche a self-image hence the reason so many people say god knows them so well or is so close to them. In effect when an atheist says they don’t believe in a deity the inner workings of many theists minds here we don’t believe in them which turns into we reject them that’s why they take it so personally. On the other hand when they here agnostic it translates into we could be friends. Some people realize it isn’t personal and can get past it but many others cannot. The whole thing has been equated to dating and flirtation.

I studied the stuff for a while.

I dunno. I can only speak for myself, not academicians or religious folks in general. I'm not a Christian, a Catholic, a Muslim, and Atheist, A Buddhist, or what have you. I don't rightly know what I am, but I do know what I believe. My gripe with Atheists isn't because they either reject a deity, or just don't know, or whatever their claim of the day is in regards to a deity. I don't much care what they believe in that regard - I figure it's between them and the deity in question - or not, as the case may be if they are right.

MY gripe is solely with the way they think they are qualified to set belief, activity, and what not for OTHER folks. If I don't care what THEY believe, why is it their mission to make me believe their way? I can't really see much difference between them and the Christians, and several other religious groups, in that regard.

No particular reason I can think of that they should believe like me, and I'm mystified why they think I should believe like them - and by "they", I include Christians, Muslims, and several other groups right along with the Atheists.

Buddhists are cool, though. Never had one try to convince me that their way was my rightful way, and I've had lots of lengthy discussions with them.

nenothtu
Kinda like the conclusion we are supposed to draw from those billboards?

I think they're a terrible idea...BUT...I also think they the product of the same mindset that envisioned atheist megachurches. To me those are not atheists...they are ex-Christians (or Catholics or Hebrew or what have you) who were so religious that once they had finally left the church the first thing they did was keep on acting like the church because the "routine" was familiar to them, didn't require much change on their part and it was all they ever knew.
People don't just change their life habits with the snap of a finger...it's not like POW I'm not gonna be a Christian anymore and it all just stops. Most of these people are just displaying the exact same behavior traits as they would as if they were still Christians...but none of you seemed to have a problem with those traits while they were still "loyal to god", did you? But now that they are atheists you can't stand it? They are STILL the same people.
I don't care if they call themselves "atheists"...I don't care what they call themselves but these people are still trapped in the same "psudo-religious" mindset with the only difference being they gave it a different name this time around.
That's why we are seeing billboards.
Anyone who thinks atheism needs a church didn't understand what the word meant.

-Peace-

Eryiedes

nenothtu
Therefore, I have no idea what they might ask in return.

If they are true atheists?
They won't ask for a thing.

-Peace-

Sorry, I'm still way back in the thread, and only caught this when my last reply posted.

I think, personally, that if they are true people they won't attach strings to aid. Their religion doesn't matter in that respect. As I said above, the Catholics didn't try to convert me - they just fed me. The only way religion even entered the transaction was the funny outfits they were wearing, but I'm pretty sure mine looked pretty funny to them at the time, too. They were just there to help - not convert.

Honestly, in the list in my post above, I have to say that I've never had a Shi'a Muslim try to convert me, either, in common with the Buddhists. Lots of discussion, but no attempts at conversion. They seem to truly believe, as do I, their own tenet of "to me be my religion and to you be yours".

Christians, Jews, Sunni Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, hell, even Quakers have tried to convert me... but never a Shi'a or a Buddhist.

I married a Shi'a. Lots of discussion, but never an attempt at conversion either way.

What others choose to believe is none of my business, not my call. That is between them and their own deity, or "not deity".

reply to post by nenothtu


I don't self-idenify as atheist...I call myself human.

-Peace-

Eryiedes

People don't just change their life habits with the snap of a finger...it's not like POW I'm not gonna be a Christian anymore and it all just stops. Most of these people are just displaying the exact same behavior traits as they would as if they were still Christians...but none of you seemed to have a problem with those traits while they were still "loyal to god", did you? But now that they are atheists you can't stand it? They are STILL the same people.

Nope, I never had a problem with it either way. I do find the "Atheist Mega Chruches" amusing, though, in light of the number of Atheists who have tried to convince me that their religion is NOT a religion. Still, I've no problem with it. What they do on their own time and their own dime isn't my business. I don't care if they want to worship Flying Spaghetti Monsters by dancing naked around campfires. Doesn't mean I have to... but there are far too many, as with Christians, who think I should live and believe their way.

Eryiedes
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I don't self-idenify as atheist...I call myself human.

-Peace-

And THERE is a key to the matter - we are who we say we are. Our identities are often all too wrapped up in the way we identify ourselves, in what we present to the world at the cost of our selves, in what we subsume our egos to.

We lose humanity when we take on an alternate identity.

nenothtu
I don't care if they want to worship Flying Spaghetti Monsters by dancing naked around campfires.

But the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the best part about atheism.
He can play the guitar!

-Peace-