The report on Sandy Hook has just been released by the state's attorney's office.

Here is a reminder

but, defaming, libeling, or otherwise exposing innocent people, especially those who are still suffering from this tragedy, to further insult or pain is below the base level of compassion we can tolerate.

ANY and I mean ANY posts that seek to further the absolutely ludicrous, childish idea of no victims or no tragedy is an insult to the victims families and WILL NOT BE ALLOWED

Next is a loss of posting privileges

It is your account

YOU CHOOSE

OKAY.... ENOUGH

I am closing this

I will gladly reopen in a day or so when you all are ready to discuss the REPORT

NO MORE "IT NEVER HAPPENED"

NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS

WARNING

If I reopen it and this continues, I will remove posting privileges..

RE-Opened

Be aware of what was posted above

NO more warnings

Thank you, Semper.

now then, people......i'm reasonably sure this would have remained closed, had i not reminded semper that he said he would reopen it....bearing that in mind, let's not Snip this up, and get it closed again, ok?

i'd really appreciate it if we could NOT do any more of the "fake kids/it never happened" stuff....there isn't anything conclusive, and absolutely irrefutable, to demonstrate that nobody died, and that the whole thing is a fabrication...yes, there are very small things that MIGHT suggest that this whole thing is bunk, but they can ALL be easily explained by far less sinister things....as i said before, there's nothing to irrefutably prove this is a hoax....so, again, i'd appreciate it if we could NOT do the whole "it never happened" thing..

we're here to talk about the document, the event, and any inconsistencies we think we may have found in the document..because i'm sure that the vast majority of us can agree on the following:

SOMETHING happened at Sandy Hook Elementary last year...it involved kids, guns, and fatalities. what we're not entirely sure on yet, is whether or not what we're being told (ie: the official narrative/story/timeline) is what actually occurred, with respect to when, what, how, and by whom.

this is what we're here to discuss....

now then, after having read the document, i gotta say that my biggest problems with it are it's repetitive nature (it literally states the same things, multiple times, using the same exact language. almost as if to fill space), and the fact that there is so much conflicting information.. for example, it states that the shotgun was never used in the school, and that shells found in the building, were dropped by officers and operators....how do they square that against the radio call from the first officer on the scene, that talks about broken glass, spent 5.56 casings, and spent shot shells? or the fact that they say in the report that they can't conclusively prove that the AR-15 found on site, is the actual weapon used, because they can't match it to the rounds fired with ballistics....but they're gonna say it was the weapon used anyway....

and then there's the atmosphere here....people are editing their posts, to remove the names of witnesses, and persons involved with the event....i think that's a bit extreme. there's respect for families, and then there's outright paranoia.....if i need to reference a witness, or victim, i'm gonna reference them by name, in the most respectful fashion i can...i'm not going to be giving out their phone numbers, home addresses, blood types, social security numbers, and results from their last police background check (and neither should you). but these people exist, they were there, and they have names....and i'm damn well gonna use them...

anyway, the thread's reopened...let's have an adult conversation....and remember, i have the mods on speed dial....


Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

Since it took nearly a year to release this information, of course the CT in me has questions. It's the same sort of mindset when someone posts a ufo video, 9/11 footage, or a bigfoot pic. It's controversial.

The bottom line is that we can examine the evidence presented, and analyse it, without detracting from the tragedy that DID occur.

The biggest question in my mind is WHO did it. The "Official Story" is Adam Lanza, a sole gunman, but there's many of us that see evidence that points contrary to that.

The most frightening thing about this story is that we could possibly discover evidence that proves contrary to the "Official Story", and as a result, discover a plot that is far more insidious than a disturbed young man. I am by no means suggesting one theory is better than another to compare against the "Official Story", but true to the very reason we are all members of this site, I believe there is information that we need to peruse, and take under the microscope as we would any other topic.

Thank you, Semper, for re-opening this thread.

Our nation has lost many loved ones through many domestic tragedies, and their losses can only be redeemed by all of us examining ALL the evidence involved. We've done that before, and we can do that again.

To say lives weren't lost in 9/11, or the Oklahoma Bombing, or The Boston Bombing, or Sandy Hook is simply preposterous. Get off that mindset. American citizens die in these tragedies. THAT is a fact.

The focus needs to be on the "Official Story" that is presented to us, and the evidence we have. Let's move forward, and I believe we can can discuss this honestly, with open minds, being respectful of those lost, and determine if the evidence coincides with the "Official Story".

reply to post by Druid42


agreed.

maybe we find something huge, or maybe we just expose shoddy police work, and a bunch of BS....which is pretty big, in, and of itself...

I firmly believe that, unfortunately, people died in this incident. Children died in this incident. I also believe that at least some of the conflicting information that has been collected and presented on this case is the result of bad media reporting and incorrect eyewitness testimony (as in witnesses were confused, not lying on purpose). However, I think there are still some greater incosistencies to be looked at that I cannot so easily dismiss. And ultimately, any independent researcher and truthseeker should be focusing on these glaring inconsistencies and ask: "How is this possible? Is there a plausible explanation for this that does not include some 'crazy' conspiracy theory?" Going into something like this with your mind made up on any specific theory makes you no better than the authorities, who seem to have made up their mind on their own theory and subsequently tried to make the facts fit that theory, whatever the reason behind that may be. Keep an open mind, keep asking questions, make other people curious, but don't come to hasty conclusions.

Did Adam Lanza act alone? How exactly did he acquire all the guns he allegedly had and how did he carry that much weight into the school without being noticed? Why did nobody seem to know Adam for the last few years before the incident? Who were the other suspects that can be seen on the news helicopter video and heard spoken about on the police scanner? Did police, after capturing them, decide that they were not actually involved in the incident? If so, why? Who exactly was Nancy Lanza, what was her involvement with Sandy Hook Elementary School? Is there any evidence proving that Adam was the one who killed her? Is it proven that Adam shot all the victims of the incident, and that he committed suicide? Why did he carry his brother's ID, especially considering said brother stated he had not seen Adam in years? What do Adam's brother and father have to say about the whole incident? Why do we have recordings of state officials making claims that do not correspond to the official story from the report? Were they giving out information they were unsure of and that later turned out to be false? If so, is that not something police should not do and have there been any measures taken in regards to said officials and their statements? Why did Adam Lanza never exist according to the internet?

I could go on and on, but these are the kinds of questions we should be asking, and we should not give our own opinionated answers along with them, in my opinion.

reply to post by javelinfangz


i would also add to that list, the examples i listed before, plus this one...

in the report, it states that DNA from victims in the school was found on the rifle at the Lanza residence...how in the HELL is that even possible?

did they run ballistic tests on THAT rifle, against the rounds used to kill the victims in the school?

cross contamination is only possible under certain conditions

- A CSI from the school scene went to the residence scene, and used the same gloves from the school, to handle the weapon at the house..not really possible, when you take into account that as per the report, the two scenes were processed by two different units...

- The savage rifle they claim was used to kill Mrs. Lanza was actually used at the school, and planted at the residence..

- There was at least one other shooter, Mrs. Lanza was killed AFTER the event at the school, the rifle was left there, and ME's office either lied about Mrs. Lanza's estimated TOD, to ensure continuity on the official timeline, or was just flat out wrong (mistakes happen)

- A MONUMENTAL screwup at the crime lab....which is only possible if a single crime lab was used to process all evidence..not sure if this was the case..different units processed each scene, not sure if everything went to a single lab though..

Daedalus
reply to post by javelinfangz

 

...cross contamination is only possible under certain conditions

- A CSI from the school scene went to the residence scene, and used the same gloves from the school, to handle the weapon at the house..not really possible, when you take into account that as per the report, the two scenes were processed by two different units...

- The savage rifle they claim was used to kill Mrs. Lanza was actually used at the school, and planted at the residence..

- There was at least one other shooter, Mrs. Lanza was killed AFTER the event at the school, the rifle was left there, and ME's office either lied about Mrs. Lanza's estimated TOD, to ensure continuity on the official timeline, or was just flat out wrong (mistakes happen)

- A MONUMENTAL screwup at the crime lab....which is only possible if a single crime lab was used to process all evidence..not sure if this was the case..different units processed each scene, not sure if everything went to a single lab though..

Well - there is another possibility...
One of the victims had been to the Lanza house, at some point, and "contamination" occurred at that time - or, one of the Lanza's had come in contact with said victim prior to the date of the tragedies.
Not saying this is the case - just bringing another somewhat obvious explanation into the mix.
And, with whomever stating that the school "was his life" - (whatever that actually meant) might make this even more possible.
Won't take it any further - but - there are even more extreme scenarios that might flow out of this basic premise.

ETA: I do find that portion of your statement that I've underlined, to be particularly interesting...

reply to post by WanDash


i had considered this as a possibility, albeit, a remote one, as we know that DNA (from certain sources) degrades rather quickly in non-labratory conditions. furthermore, they failed to mention exactly what the DNA was from (blood, hair, skin, saliva, etc)...couple that with the fact that they really didn't have visitors at the Lanza residence, and that the overwhelming majority of the victims were children, and you tend to come the conclusion that the theory is so highly unlikely, as to be easily dismissible as impossible.

IF a conspiracy is in effect here, and there is a coverup, the possibility definitely exists that the savage rifle may have, in fact, been the murder weapon....i'm glad you find this interesting as well..

If anyone's considering a Savage .22 cal rifle as a weapon for mass murder forget it. 26 victims with a .22? Not even remotely possible unless every victim were completely disabled.
It would take a wound to either the brain or the heart from a .22 to be quickly fatal.
I just don't see the circumstantial evidence leaning towards that.
Nor do I remember them specifically stating what they found the DNA on.

Just trying to help eliminate possibilities here.

Eta: the report states they positively matched the shell casings to the weapon (bushmaster .223) but could not match any of the bullets. Given the sheer number of bullets said fired (200 -250?)
Sure, bullets disintegrate on contact with certain things but tend to retain their shape in others. There must have been some that hit books, furniture, ceiling tiles etc that at least one would still be in fair shape.
I find it incredible they could not match one with that rifle. I've never heard of that.

Helious
I find it difficult to accept that there is no mention of how the "bus driver" that supposedly transported the kids to *snip* house got there or that there is no mention about that particularly troubling part of the narrative.

i'm also still puzzled about this....who was this bus driver, was a man? a woman? why did they bring the children to a random person's house, instead of the firehouse, or police station?

there's no SOLID information on this, because of the fact that Mr. Rosen changed his story with every interview, so his account of events (if any of it was even true), is completely useless, with respect to it being able to serve as any kind of testimony.

it's not surprising that this wasn't mentioned in the report though...it's a side detail, not essentially linked to the primary incident.

it is still a very curious loose end, however.

I also find the fact that the person who was reported to be an armed tactical officer from a neighboring town is now just "new reporters" that were chased down in the woods.

i believe in the report, they referred to him as being someone who had received a text alert that something was going down at the school, and went to check it out....what i find most puzzling about this is that firstly, they can't tell us what he is...is he a tac officer from another town? is he a reporter? is he just some guy with a police scanner? and how in the hell did he get there BEFORE police arrived? if he received some sort of text, it would have been well after the initial 911 call was made, and police response was pretty quick...so how did he make it there before them?

Asktheanimals
If anyone's considering a Savage .22 cal rifle as a weapon for mass murder forget it. 26 victims with a .22? Not even remotely possible unless every victim were completely disabled.
It would take a wound to either the brain or the heart from a .22 to be quickly fatal.
I just don't see the circumstantial evidence leaning towards that.
Nor do I remember them specifically stating what they found the DNA on.

Just trying to help eliminate possibilities here.

Eta: the report states they positively matched the shell casings to the weapon (bushmaster .223) but could not match any of the bullets. Given the sheer number of bullets said fired (200 -250?)
Sure, bullets disintegrate on contact with certain things but tend to retain their shape in others. There must have been some that hit books, furniture, ceiling tiles etc that at least one would still be in fair shape.
I find it incredible they could not match one with that rifle. I've never heard of that.

edit on 9-12-2013 by Asktheanimals because: added comment

what needs to be remembered here is that the vast majority of the victims were small children...the rifle in question uses .22LR. it is conceivable that this particular round might be more effective on children, than on adults, or larger animals, given muscle mass, density, and whatnot...we also need to remember that as per the CTSP, the victims (that died) were each shot anywhere between 4, and 12 times..i don't care who you are...that many holes in you, is gonna be fatal.

the report states that DNA from at least one victim at the school was found on the savage rifle...you know, the one that was never at the school..that, all by itself, would seem to suggest that either this particular weapon was at the school, or that there was more than one shooter, or that the rifle was planted...or something....that DNA evidence immediately puts up a red flag, that not all is as it appears.

additionally, there were, apparently, some rounds fired that went through windows, and hit cars in the lot...surely, one of them HAD to be good enough for a ballistic test...it is EXTREMELY unusual that they could not positively match the weapon to the bullets..

reply to post by Helious

Adam changing his clothes on a regular or irregular basis will never be anything more than loose speculation and as such means absolutely nothing.

Well, you brought it up and I was only giving an opinion (my thoughts on the subject). It obviously does mean something,..otherwise the sweat shirts wouldn't have been there. Many many things we are discussing here is speculation, otherwise we would have the proof, and this entire thread would be null & void.

When approaching this subject with a skeptical mind, you must be very careful in your assertions and postulations, the subject matter does not allow for normal people to give you space for half thought out and ill researched conjecture.

I take umbridge to this reply. You seem to be implying that I am not worthy, and that my comment only half thought out and ill researched. You never know when a thought or opinion might lead a person to think in a different way, opening new eyes and thoughts to something they have going on in their own processing of information.

Besides which, I find the garbage bags (And his room in general) very odd. And though it was speculation on my part, it makes sense to 'wonder' if those garbage bags were put up to keep the viewer from seeing what lays beyond those windows. If infact this is a conspiracy (which many believe it is), why not put the questions out there for thought. I'm not lying at all, I'm commenting on something that admittedly I find could very well be a possibility-but realize we will most likely never know.

Concise, irrefutable proof is the answer to the skeptics who hold on to the official story. The enemy of those who dissent are people who would lodge illogical and ill thought out scenarios about what happened with no proof, that is what discredits the argument as a whole faster than anything else.

Concise and irrefutable proof would be excellent I agree, and I'm no enemy of that. However, I don't think that the post you are replying to was ill thought out or illogical either. If that's the case you may as well have used my other comment (one that I tried to edit-but couldn't) as it was a huge error on my part. We all make them.

That, perhaps, will prove to not be complete speculation, that, may be able to be proved. We shall see.

Well-thanks for that I guess! Really, who made you the thought police, and why bust my chops.

A quick thought on the sweatshirts.
Wouldn't it make sense to cover any guns you put in the car?
If you had a shotgun and an AR how many sweatshirts would you need?
There ya go.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


That makes better sense than a change of clothes.