A Question to the Scot's Here on ATS? ....

eletheia
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

You know there's a lot to be said for 'that was then'

And now is now ....


People living now cannot be held responsible for what happened generations ago ....


We are supposed to stop living in the past and learn from past mistakes and move on in

an attempt at a better world for our children.


Every country has at one time or another had 'rebels' and 'freedom fighters' or

'soldiers of fortune'

Anyone that uses the film "Braveheart" as a reference should not be taken seriously.
That film ,apart from being totally inaccurate should be treated more as a comedy.
They didn't even wear kilts in those days.

reply to post by Bassago

FREEDOM for Scotland NOW!

I have no intention of getting too heavily involved in this thread (that could obviously change), - Scottish independence is a matter for Scots alone to decide, the right to self-determination and all that.
But why do you think the Scots aren't free now?
They have just as many freedoms as anyone else and for the record, The Union was instigated at the behest of Scotland, or at least the ruling class of Scotland at the time.
Scotland has been a full and equal partner in The Union and has reaped both the positives and negatives from it.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

It's damn late in coming, but better late than never if they can finally take what is theirs.

And what exactly would that be?
What has been TAKEN from them?

The simple FACT is that until now there simply hasn't been enough support for an independent Scotland to warrant a vote on it - now that a significant percentage of SCOTTISH people feel they need to have the debate and a chance to vote on it they are now getting the opportunity to do so.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg

The bloody English have smashed our heavy industry to pieces (god, how I cheered when that evil witch Maggie died this year!) and our mining industry is dead

But Wales or Scotland are far from being unique in this - the North East of England has consistently been crapped on by successive governments at least as much as any other region of the UK.
Look what has been done to us.

It's not a question of what has been 'done to them' in the past but rather a question of will they be better off in the future as part of The Union or not - and as I've said countless times that is a matter for the Scots alone to decide upon.

Romantic tales of yesterday may stir the passion but it doesn't answer the questions that are important and relevant today.

Personally I'd like to see a movement towards increased devolved power to ALL the regions the UK within some sort of Federal framework.

One slight aside; I really fail to understand Salmonds belief that an independent Scotland will be allowed to maintain Sterling as it's currency - Sterling is the currency of the UK, as an independent Scotland would no longer be within the UK it has no right to use it, and why would the UK be prepared to possibly destabilise it's currency due to a fledgling nation with all the doubts and uncertainties that go with it - and possibly more to the point, why would an independent nation want to rely on a currency it had no control or say over. Seems to me Salmond wants to cherry pick the best bits of independence whilst burying his hand in the sand about the realities.

reply to post by alldaylong


Anything made by mel Gibbson should be taken as comedy.

The amount of Merikans that seem to think that his film "the patriot" was accurate in it potral shocks me.


Mel Gibbson should be tried by a tribunal of historians and hung drawn and quaterd for his crimes.

reply to post by crazyewok




I believe, sure I heard somewhere that they intend to go with the euro??

That would be a backward step

Do you think they would consider Gordon Brown for chancellor??...LOL

crazyewok
reply to post by sparky31

 

Im all for the freedom to choose.

But I just hope the tyranny of the masses doesnt lead scotland down a lonley dark path...........

i agree but if the unthinkable actually happens then as much as i love my country for the sake of family and their future i would have to consider heading south cause when the inevitable collapse happens i would want my family far away from the consequences.

reply to post by sparky31


seek independence throw away the old rule write the new. Become everything there is a Scotsman could be. No i would never be ruled by a the queen or king i'm Irish, and where i'm from im confused with British English. It would be another world if you all could start from zero, get back to your roots and show your nationality not as a conquered people adhering to the status quo, but as the proud independent people you are. Stop paying taxes for someone else's concern pay them for your people. That's all i have to say about that

reply to post by sparky31

i agree but if the unthinkable actually happens then as much as i love my country for the sake of family and their future i would have to consider heading south cause when the inevitable collapse happens i would want my family far away from the consequences.

I wonder how many Scots share those sentiments.....and I wonder how many Scots who are living in other parts of the UK would choose to move back to a newly independent Scotland along with all the uncertainty and risk that could entail?

reply to post by crazyewok


The Patriot was obviously a highly dramatized version of historic events in America. In fact, very loosely based, as the term goes on individuals. I'd be curious what you think was THAT far off in accuracy though?

Outside individual actions, which I mentioned, can't really be known with certainty and they took liberal license with filling that in....it wasn't meant to be a historical film anyway.

We Were Soldiers, Braveheart and Passion of the Christ on the other hand, I've listened to historians and in the case of the battle of the Ia Drang Valley, people who were involved, to feel Gibson worked very hard at getting those right to the extent a movie can.

eletheia

I believe, sure I heard somewhere that they intend to go with the euro??

Lord help them

So instead of being equal parters with the UK, they instead become slaves to Germany.


Yeah great change.

Make the sacrfices of all those scotmen who died in WW2 worthless.

eletheia
Do you think they would consider Gordon Brown for chancellor??...LOL

They will be doubly screwed!

TechniXcality
reply to post by sparky31

 

seek independence throw away the old rule write the new. Become everything there is a Scotsman could be. No i would never be ruled by a the queen or king i'm Irish, and where i'm from im confused with British English. It would be another world if you all could start from zero, get back to your roots and show your nationality not as a conquered people adhering to the status quo, but as the proud independent people you are. Stop paying taxes for someone else's concern pay them for your people. That's all i have to say about that

Scotland and conquered people does not compute.
Where do you get the notion that Scotland was conquered ?
in 1707 Scotland asked to join "The Club" Membership was granted.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by crazyewok

 

The Patriot was obviously a highly dramatized version of historic events in America. In fact, very loosely based, as the term goes on individuals. I'd be curious what you think was THAT far off in accuracy though?

Outside individual actions, which I mentioned, can't really be known with certainty and they took liberal license with filling that in....it wasn't meant to be a historical film anyway.

We Were Soldiers, Braveheart and Passion of the Christ on the other hand, I've listened to historians and in the case of the battle of the Ia Drang Valley, people who were involved, to feel Gibson worked very hard at getting those right to the extent a movie can.

edit on 25-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

This may re educate you on the tripe that was the film "Braveheart"

thehande.wordpress.com...

Wrabbit2000


The Patriot was obviously a highly dramatized version of historic events in America. In fact, very loosely based, as the term goes on individuals. I'd be curious what you think was THAT far off in accuracy though?

I would love a disccusion on it, just not on here as lets no throw the topic off.

Wrabbit2000
We Were Soldiers, I've listened to historians and in the case of the battle of the Ia Drang Valley, people who were involved, to feel Gibson worked very hard at getting those right to the extent a movie can.

edit on 25-11-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

I will give you that. Up until the end anyway where they do the heroic charge to victory. That peed me off as it does a huge disservice to the men of 7/2 who sufferd through hell a few days later.

AngryCymraeg
I'm Welsh and much as I love my country we can't afford to be independent. The bloody English have smashed our heavy industry to pieces (god, how I cheered when that evil witch Maggie died this year!) and our mining industry is dead.

The mining industry was declining long before Margaret Thatcher.

My father's father a coal miner left Wales ( I'm not going to try to spell where LOL)

in around 1900 to get work in the Durham coal mines due to the lack of work in the

mines in Wales.

reply to post by alldaylong


It's unbelievable the amount of people who view The Scots as a suppressed nation - that in itself is an insult to every single Scots person - and who are ignorant that The Union came about at the request of Scottish people and The Union was ruled over by a SCOTTISH King.

I am in two minds regarding independence... on one hand i think it would be a good economic decision considering Scotland would have a claim to the bulk of the north sea oil reserves

on the other hand unless we create our own currency and banking system , "Independence" is going to be nothing more than a political move...

I would vote for independence if doing so will enable Scotland to create it's own armed forces, health service and banking system otherwise the entire issue will only be about giving the politicians more power than they currently have....

i understand the majority would like to continue using the pound but doing so would bind us to the Central banking system and i think it was Nathaniel Rothschild that said "he who controls the gold, controls the world"

And if we are going to break off from the United Kingdom only to join the EU and adopt the Euro then i will be immigrating to Australia, New Zealand or Canada...

to Sum up i am in favor of Total independence anything less is done for the politicians and not the people of Scotland

I don't live there (obviously). My fathers side came from there .. England and also Ireland.
(wild stories ... a tall protestant englishman married a short catholic Irish lass ...)
Anyways ... England, Scotland, Ireland ... all independent gets a thumbs up from me.
But the people there now are the only ones who should have an opinion that really matters ...

Freeborn
reply to post by alldaylong

 

It's unbelievable the amount of people who view The Scots as a suppressed nation - that in itself is an insult to every single Scots person - and who are ignorant that The Union came about at the request of Scottish people and The Union was ruled over by a SCOTTISH King.

You must remember that those of Scottish decent now living in "The New World" find the romanticised version of Scottish history more attractive.
For us and many others it is total rubbish

reply to post by alldaylong


are seriously debating if conquest was ever sought in Scotland by the British? Sure eventually the people succumbed and joined the union, so i suppose America never conquered Iraq? Apples and oranges but the occupation led to a mock government put in place.

wikipedia en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by eletheia

I asked this question because I have known and do know quite a few Scots (Indeed the father of one of my grand daughters was Scot's)

And they all talk in the same vein as you and it always, always puzzles me (I miss the puzzle emo] with that attitude why they reside in England??

It's basically a matter of mindset. Yes things may be harder if Scotland reclaims it's independence but that's no reason not to want that freedom.

Whether or not they chose to join the union in the past is irrelevant as stated elsewhere. Past is the past and I hope my cousins have the fortitude to move beyond England.

eta - This does not mean I believe that Scotland should not remain allied with England. That's a whole other issue but I'd vote to remain equal but separate allies.

Bassago
[
It's basically a matter of mindset. Yes things may be harder if Scotland reclaims it's independence but that's no reason not to want that freedom.

Freedom from what though?

They have there own parliment.

Queen of no importamce as she is just a puupet not even allowed a political opinion much less express it.