America; A Coward Country

jimmyx
why don't you just come out and say it, beezzer...anybody that doesn't have a good job, or is poor, is a loser, all due to their own laziness and apathy, so screw them. loud and clear, buddy...just like all the past revolutions, it was the poor and wretched that had nothing to lose, and had no hope of a future, that killed off the smug and arrogant people of privilege and wealth...so keep up the blame and shame on the underclass, and let history repeat itself, you can't help it if that's all you know.

He never said anything of the sort.

He was talking about a PC society that strives towards servitude and mediocrity.

We are not the independent Union that we used to be. Our independence has been robbed from us, and it was our independence that used to bring people to the US as a beacon of hope that they would actually be able to manage their affairs.

We are tediously micromanaged by government and corporations. They have convinced us that independence is bad, and we should rely on others to secure our happiness, health, financial stability, and personal safety.

You cannot have true freedom without responsibility.

It is cowardly when people shirk their responsibility. When they give up their rights so corporations and government can take care of them.

double post

reply to post by buster2010

buster2010
No the government doesn't want cowards or people to live off them. People that are working pay taxes and getting taxes makes the government happy a unemployed person makes the government sad because they will take money away. The huge corporations that the TPers supports wants cowards because that is where the money is made. Like food stamps JP Morgan runs that the more people on food stamps the more money for JP. So instead of the TPers pointing at the government crying you are causing the problems should look at the corporations they support and see that they are the ones that turned the government into what it is today and turned America into a shambles so they could make more money.

beezzer
From PC indoctrination (see above thread) to hate-filled vitriol towards independent groups like the Tea Party (see above thread) America is looking to eliminate independence...


This probably constitutes a rant, but I feel it has social ramifications as well. Though if it comes off as too hateful and angry, then delete if you must, oh mods of the site!

omfg I thought he meant the Tea Party was hate filled and vitriolic
reply to post by damwel

damwel

FlyersFan
reply to post by beezzer

 

Now that you mention it, I think you are right .... this administration LOVES victims.
It needs victims in order to pull off it's nefarious agenda.
And those Americans with the 'can do' spirit of the Pioneers are vilified.

Yeah buddy, it's nefarious agenda of getting health coverage for poor children.

Star for you, guys.

I'd flag you but I can't.

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


You can NOT have responsibility without an internal OWNERSHIP.

One must own it first, then responsibility comes.

We have been neutered as a free society.

Can't you see it? for the last 50 years we have lived in a hidden tyranny that masqueraded as the former nation of the USA. The people have become OWNED, ENSLAVED which means as a slave you own nothing. Zilch


the "game" of the economy, which is EXACTLY like monopoly (board game) needs to be RESET from to time, and NOONE gets to KEEP ANYTHING from the previous round.

The economy crashed as expected, except instead of the rich jumping out of their highrise windows, the corrupt %$#@%'s have GAMED the game.

every time around go, that $200 dollars buys less, and the RENTS KEEP GOING UP!!/.

I would rather die destroying the rich than to work for the SCRAPS left over from them.

EVERYONE THAT disagrees with that are the PUNKS of the NATION.

HATING THE RICH IS THE CORRECT PLAN

S&F interesting thread but I am curious as to how a whining, crybaby rant will inspire anyone to become
uncowardly.

For a robust and motivated citizenry there need to be solid realistic goals. There is where the energy needs to be directed; not in name calling and recrimination.

Want change? Work for Justice!

The thread below is a perfect illustration of where the fundamental problem lies.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by HanzHenry

I would rather die destroying the rich than to work for the SCRAPS left over from them.

EVERYONE THAT disagrees with that are the PUNKS of the NATION.

HATING THE RICH IS THE CORRECT PLAN

That doesn't get rid of the problem.

A person can become wealthy by selling a product or service.

A person could also become rich by rigging the economy.

In the US, we have examples of both the former and the latter. So, hating rich people simply for the sake of them being rich is irrational. Getting mad because someone is rigging the game is rational.

You want to level the playing field? Then get rid of centralized banking (the federal reserve) and end all internal taxtion--both taxes against individuals and businesses. Make up the difference by raising tariffs on foreign trade items.

Problem solved.

Edit to Add:

Also get rid of permits and licensing. The notion that a person needs a permit to sell or provide a service is absurd. Yo do not need permisison to sell something that is yours.

reply to post by beezzer


Personally, I support the OP's right to express his OPINION. That, however, is all that he's doing - expressing an opinion. It's not gospel. It's not fact. It's no more valuable that ANYONE else's opinion, including the ones with which the OP does not agree.

LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

I would rather die destroying the rich than to work for the SCRAPS left over from them.

EVERYONE THAT disagrees with that are the PUNKS of the NATION.

HATING THE RICH IS THE CORRECT PLAN

That doesn't get rid of the problem.

A person can become wealthy by selling a product or service.

A person could also become rich by rigging the economy.

In the US, we have examples of both the former and the latter. So, hating rich people simply for the sake of them being rich is irrational. Getting mad because someone is rigging the game is rational.

You want to level the playing field? Then get rid of centralized banking (the federal reserve) and end all internal taxtion--both taxes against individuals and businesses. Make up the difference by raising tariffs on foreign trade items.

Problem solved.

Edit to Add:

Also get rid of permits and licensing. The notion that a person needs a permit to sell or provide a service is absurd. Yo do not need permisison to sell something that is yours.

edit on 20-11-2013 by LewsTherinThelamon because: (no reason given)

the RICH profit off of EVERYONE...
1. through real estate investments =inflated home purchase prices/rents
2. through owning the businesses that people frequent.
3. through owning stocks in everything we must purchase, even by law (car insurance)

NOONE who has their wealth today made it in a NON-CORRUPT or FAIR HONEST system.

When one kid can be born from a rich greedy #!$$!#, that kid inherits more wealth than 20 men can make the entire lives working for him?

NEVER!!

beezzer

How about, be free to determine your own life.

Stop hiding behind the apron strings of mama-government?

But what if those people you are calling cowards really are "being free do determine their own life"? You are assuming that everybody is agreeing with you but not acting because they are cowards.

Some people simply don't think you are right. That is not cowardice; it's the opposite. We live in America and our society has traditionally been against liberal ideology for a few decades. Voicing your concerns about the lower class and social equality issues will cause people to call you a "commie" of "libtard" or "obamabot" no matter how irrelevant any of those names are.

PC had paved the way for many of the civil rights victories we have now. Do you think interracial marriage would have had its breakthrough if it were still acceptable to call black people all of the disgusting names that were common in the 50's? "PC" is a tool. Just like any tool, it can be overused. Personally, I enjoy the fact that it's not okay to use racial slurs in the public domain. Why would I have an issue with that?

I give you more credit than this. You understand that it's not a binary as you make it sound in your OP. You know that predatory capitalism is a huge component to the problem while you only focus on the government. You know that the biggest welfare recipients are big corporations and industries who take out tax money for subsidies while giving nothing back yet you only focus on "nanny state" for poor people.

You know the problems are bigger than what you are insisting on focusing on. And you also know that, in order to change anything, you will need to make some concessions. You chose an extreme because you feel it's necessary to do so but, like I said, you know better.

Don't worry, Beez; this hasn't changed my opinion of you. I have days where I blame all of our problems on conservatives but... you know, I know better.

SilentKillah

beezzer

luciddream
OMG how can anyone bash the independent groups like the Tea Party... sooo innocent!!!


PC is annoying but there are people who want to go the other way, aka, want to discriminate, accuse, and w/e and not get penalized or criticized for it.

Too much PC is bad but i think some people want it completely gone....sorry it keeps racist and bigots in check or makes them stand out.

"i wanna be bad to this person but damn PC is in its way!"


i think this hate on PC is actually an underlying agenda to destabilize or cripple whatever is opposed to tea party/republican goals.

So you would rather want government determining social behavior rather than having the individual be responsible for their own behavior?

And if Government didn't set an enforceable standard, then who'se going to be held accountable beezer? Was anyone held accountable for dragging blacks in the street in the 1940's? Not many. Thank goodness the government stepped in to set a standard... for my own survival, and for me to have the right to a pursuit of happiness.

The individuals have been and always will be held accountable for their actions.

The question is do you want the government to set the standard for your own behavior?

olaru12
S&F interesting thread but I am curious as to how a whining, crybaby rant will inspire anyone to become
uncowardly.

I make an observation you disagree with, and you call it that? Nice start there!

For a robust and motivated citizenry there need to be solid realistic goals. There is where the energy needs to be directed; not in name calling and recrimination.

Who sets those goals? The individual, or mama-government? ('cause decisions are "hard" sometimes, right?)

Want change? Work for Justice!

Oh goody! Social justice now? Please tell me all about wealth redistribution next! (I'm all ears)

woodsmom
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

I'm guessing this is for me and not beezzer.

No I am not off the grid, obviously. Being self reliant means not sticking your hand out to ask others for anything. We interact with society, my husband works his ass off to provide a vital service and sacrifices his time and energy to make the money we need to pay the bills. I work my ass off to harvest, collect, grow, can and otherwise preserve as much of our sustenance as I can. We have chosen to stay a part of society, for now. We honestly have had the discussion about completely dropping out and disappearing, but that's not the topic at hand.

Now we could argue that I'm not self reliant because I have to see a doctor for an ongoing health issue. The main point here being that I pay cash out of my ratty envelope with money saved a little every month to pay my bill in full. I rely on the knowledge that the doc has worked hard and paid for. I don't rely on a handout from others to pay for it.

I don't take that cash and go out and party at the bars, or go on vacations or even go eat out with that because that is our budget for our medical care. I have less bills in my mailbox because of it. When I need something I don't just whip out a credit card and rack up more debt. If its something I truly need then I save for it.

I understand its not black and white either. The people who truly need help, just need help. I help everywhere that I can because I see the need. Hungry kids are my weakness. No child will ever leave my home hungry. The disabled simply can't do some things, but I also see people with severe disabilities work part time jobs doing whatever they can to try and feel independent.

The fact that people see the abuse of the system as acceptable just to justify themselves is the problem. The fact the collective gets to decide how I am supposed to live is the problem. It's a problem for me that other people get to make those decisions to continue to raise my bills and take from my children just to justify an agenda.

I have a sincere question for you. By the merits of your argument, should I just chuck my children out in the snow to teach them self reliance?

My way is to teach them how to hunt and fish and forage so that they never go hungry. It's to teach them that somebody else always has more need than us and to find ways to fill that need. It's teaching them how to care for and maintain themselves and their personal things. It's teaching them that there are consequences, good or bad for every action that we perform. It's teaching them to put others needs first. It's teaching them that hard work is rewarding, but not necessarily instantly gratifying.

You know, my son at six years old was excited to learn how to fillet a salmon. The fish was nearly as big as he was, and his fillets were nicer than the men's because he cared so much about the job he was doing. Granted he's never had to clean fish for 10 hours, but he has helped us out ever since. That is the kind of self reliance that I am talking about. The desire to better oneself without requiring that others sacrifice so I can have my way.

The PC issue is a problem because it has become wrong to say what I just said, and its how I and many others feel. People have stopped speaking up because of fear of ridicule and that has come to mean more than the cold hard truth that nobody is owed a damn thing that they have not earned, through work, barter or otherwise.

Excellent post, and I was actually speaking to beezer's message. What I was trying to point out was the Black/White thinking, either you are self reliant or you are subserviant, for some it is either one or the other, some folks have a very narrow definition of self reliance, leaving everyone else so called subserviant.

I happen so see this very differently, I don't see either one or the other as only options, there is multiple levels of each across the spectrum, including some of those that just need a hand up.

Cuervo


But what if those people you are calling cowards really are "being free do determine their own life"? You are assuming that everybody is agreeing with you but not acting because they are cowards.

Point taken. Not everyone wants to self-determine. Not everyone wants to embrace personal responsibility. It is a choice we must all ultimately make.

Some see benefits in a controlling central authority. Some embrace the comfort of a police-state.

I'm saying that it takes an active participant to be responsible. To be responsible for your life, your welfare, your security, your safety.

If others willingly want to cede that responsibility, it is entirely their decision. I wouldn't necessarily call that decision "brave", however.

reply to post by beezzer


But you are no different than what you complain about...you are simply the other side of the coin.


I suggest you all get rid of the coin or you will remain in this perpetual downward spiral of this illusion called good and evil.
black and white.
rich and poor
pretty and ugly
worthy and unworthy
love and hate
brave and coward
fat and skinny
logical and illogical
attractive and unattractive
powerful and weak
privileged and unprivileged
right and wrong
smart and dumb
constitutional and unconstitutional
righteous and unrighteous
responsible and irresponsible
Godly and Ungodly
Holy and Unholy

The term "Game of Life" is the problem. Its no game.


Behold, The man has become as one of "us" to know what is good and what is evil.
Skullin N Bonin 322

rangerdanger
Unless you're from my generation (under 25) you won't understand my generation. Same way I don't understand what it was like living in the 60s where candy costs a penny each and you had to walk to school 10 miles barefoot in the snow..
Same old rhetoric has been passed down from generation to generation.
Call us whatever you want, but my generation will continue to do whatever it is you're complaining about.

Each generation has to make its own way in the world. What makes me uncomfortable is the lack of context each successive is being given.

The 1970s were a pivotal time in our nation. You mention penny candy... The Carter years saw double digit inflation AND double digit unemployment. The country didn't ever bounce back to where it had been. Yes, there was penny candy and $0.25 a gallon gasoline, but what I doubt a lot of the younger generations firmly grasp is that you earned that $0.25 through HARD work!

When I was in high school you were lucky to find a farmer that would pay more than $0.60 an hour to pick up hay. (They were 80 - 100lb bales, too!) When I worked for my dad I was on the wagon handling every bale and earning nothing (the standard comment I got was, "You ate breakfast this morning, didn't you?) while my classmates picked every fourth or fifth bale up and threw it on the wagon.

I got married in 1973 and a union job got me $1.89 and hour before deductions...

My only point, here, is that none of us have had it made. Now that I'm finally over 60, I hear a lot of younger folks talking like my generation had reserved seats on the gravy train. Nothing could be further from the truth. I had a wife, a newborn and a house to pay for and was lucky to work two weeks a month. My company liked to work it so that we got in just enough hours to knock us out of unemployment. I was also staring at the draft and Vietnam when we got married. If I hadn't been 6' 1" and only weighed 115lbs I would have gone... The Army guy told me to count on going when they called me again next year, but Nixon stopped the draft.

You're on to something when you say one generation has no way of understanding what another is going through. I'd just suggest you not assume it is complaining. One of my "Donisms" (that's my real name) is, "Sometimes all you can do is ALL you can do..."

Just keep doin' what you have to. That's all any of us have ever been able to do...

beezzer

Cuervo


But what if those people you are calling cowards really are "being free do determine their own life"? You are assuming that everybody is agreeing with you but not acting because they are cowards.

Point taken. Not everyone wants to self-determine. Not everyone wants to embrace personal responsibility. It is a choice we must all ultimately make.

Some see benefits in a controlling central authority. Some embrace the comfort of a police-state.

I'm saying that it takes an active participant to be responsible. To be responsible for your life, your welfare, your security, your safety.

If others willingly want to cede that responsibility, it is entirely their decision. I wouldn't necessarily call that decision "brave", however.

I would give you a rebuttal but it would be the same as the part of my post that you cut out. Not agreeing with Tea Party ideas does not mean a person embraced a centralized government or a police state. My post you replied to actually answers the post you responded with.

In a weird inverted political zen leporidae sort of way.

the2ofusr1
reply to post by beezzer

 

Yea ,sure ....the rags to riches is a good example that wont or cant work in todays world ...they control it all ,either by hook or crook..

You hit THAT nail square on the head!!!

I've been trying for the last five years to get people to really listen to what is coming out of the current administration's message:

"I want Everyone to have a shot at the American Dream. Work hard and give everything you've got and someday you can be a success and we can all despise YOU, too!!!!"

That makes no sense....

reply to post by beezzer


BOO!



SnF

NavyDoc
-- snip --
No, what he is getting at is that Americans (and the west in general) has gradually evolved from independent and self reliant people who just want to be left alone to a people who are afraid of liberty and are frightened by self reliance and intimidated by individualists. They find comfort in the collective. They don't want to think or take care of themselves, they just want to be taken care of. TPTB really push this mindset because such people are so much easier to control than those who want to live and breathe independently and can take care of themselves. Big government progressives want people to be dependent because they are easier to control.

It's been so long ago that I don't know if I could source it or not, but I remember the uproar over Carter and the Trilateral Commission paper that claimed America's future lay in moving the population away from a savings/work oriented nation to a services/consumer-based society.

Yeah, that's work out well...

reply to post by HanzHenry

the RICH profit off of EVERYONE...

The point of having a business is making a profit, if you don't make a profit your business goes under.

1. through real estate investments =inflated home purchase prices/rents

Because of the nature of our fractional-reserve styled economy, our "free market" is inherently inflationary. Investing has nothing to do with it.

2. through owning the businesses that people frequent.

That's the point of business: to have customers.

3. through owning stocks in everything we must purchase, even by law (car insurance)

The "owning stock" part has nothing to do with why our economy sucks. Stock is just a way for a business to finance its activities by offering shares for investors. The "everything we must purchase" bit is a little closer to the truth, as car insurance is a textbook example of a monopoly.

When government forces a company to be profitable.

NOONE who has their wealth today made it in a NON-CORRUPT or FAIR HONEST system.

While it is true that our economic model is corrupt, what you are implying is not true. That "anyone who makes money in a corrupt economic system is corrupt."

There are people who make honest livings and do very well for themselves.

When one kid can be born from a rich greedy #!$$!#, that kid inherits more wealth than 20 men can make the entire lives working for him?

I think this is what the problem is. Unskilled workers are like cannon fodder as far a company is concerned. Their pay reflects the work they do, "I greet people for a living" is an easy job that can be filled by anyone. It requires no skills.

If you want better pay, make yourself more marketable to businesses by offering something that they need (STEM).

Those 20 men could also start their own businesses to compete with the kid's business.