Did Exodus Really Happen? Most likely NOT

Kaboose
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Well if it isn't Flyers Fan the constant atheist poster on ATS making claims based on zero real evidence.

Good luck with your mission to discredit proven historical facts.

Oh by the way, did you know they found metal chariot wheels, human bones, and even horse remains, in the bottom of the Red Sea the crossing took place, some as deep as 200 feet, yes most of it covered by lots of overgrowth of coral after thousands of years, but still visible.
Oh I know, it's a Christian hoax and what you say is always a proven scientific fact isn't it....

Let's play a game called count the sources for the information presented. Let's see the OP has seven sources not counting the ATS thread she linked. You have zero sources. So who is discrediting proven historical facts again? Because everything you posted until otherwise demonstrated has as much veracity as me telling you that the pyramids formed naturally.

I hate to bust your bubble, but they have found evidences for the crossing of the Red Sea and the Egyptian chariot wheels from that Dynasty are in the bottom of the sea. Check out Ron Wyatt. encrypted.google.com...:1 Lots of evidence, but believe what you want. I like to follow the facts, however.

reply to post by Jim Scott


Yes me too:

Egyptian Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea-Unproven!
Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea Hoax Persists

From first source:

Much of this eRumor is based on the findings of Ron Wyatt, a colorful and controversial amateur archeologist who claimed to have found Noah's ark, the Biblical Ark of the Covenant, the location of Sodom And Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, the true site of Mt. Sinai, the true site of the crucifixion of Jesus, and the original stones of the Ten Commandments. He was a passionate and sincere man, according to his supporters, but his critics abound and scientists and archeologists regarded him as an untrained maverick at best and there are some who regarded his as a fraud. Wyatt died from cancer in 1999.

Kaboose
Well if it isn't Flyers Fan the constant atheist poster on ATS making claims based on zero real evidence.

Hey genius ... I'm not an atheist. I believe in God.
You don't have to believe the Old Testament stories to believe in God.
That's your error in thinking.
And I'm not making 'claims'. I'm stating historical and archeological facts.

Good luck with your mission to discredit proven historical facts.

Apparently you didn't bother to read the thread. The historical and archeological facts point to Exodus not having happened. EDUCATE YOURSELF.

Oh by the way, did you know they found metal chariot wheels, human bones, and even horse remains, in the bottom of the Red Sea ...

Oh by the way, did you bother to read the thread and educate yourself? No ... didn't think so. If you had, you would see that information was already brought up. And no, finding a chariot wheel and a few human bones does NOT equal an entire Egyptian army and it doesn't equal two million people living in a desert for 40 years.

reply to post by Jim Scott

Already came up. The source is not really credible and all that was found was a chariot wheel or two .. maybe an axil .. and a couple of bones. The story says that the Egyptian Army was wiped out. Those few relics that MIGHT have been found do not equal an entire Egyptian Army nor does it equal two million Hebrews living in a desert for 40 years. What was found, could be lots of things.

Like was said ... if the Egyptian Army had been wiped out, there would have been some kind of record of that. And there isn't. ANd if the Egyptian Army had been wiped out, then Egypt would have been invaded or uprisings would have happened. And they didn't. In fact, right after this time period, Egypt flourished and did very well militarily. THat's something that wouldn't have happened if they had their Army wiped out.

reply to post by sealing

I know of no sources from that time period other than the gospels that discuss the events of the life of CHrist. It's up to the reader to decide if the gospels are enough of a valid source to believe.

reply to post by Jim Scott



Our oceans probably have alot of things buried in them, from boats to trucks and cars, (they did ferry their vehicles), but that doesnt mean, the Pacific or Atlantic parted to dry land, and everyone walked across. They've never found the remains in the desert. And they didn't need to find them as the whole story is Allegorical.

sealing
Great thread Flyers.
I'm hanging out on this thread until we get to the New Testament.
What did the Egyptian Historians Roman Historians or Israelites of 33 A.D.
have to say about Jesus ?
I should add I'm not being a smart ass (this time)
I have never heard of any record of Jesus Christ of Nazareth
when he was alive as a human. As well read as you are I'm truly
interested as to whether you know any different.
I'll take anything from 10BC - 45AD.

edit on 6-11-2013 by sealing because: More

This is interesting.

destination-yisrael.biblesearchers.com... turin.html

Was there an historical Jesus, Iesus Nazarenus

www.thestar.com...

www.foxnews.com...

In her book "The Shroud of Jesus Nazarene," published in Italian, Frale reconstructs from the lettering on the shroud what she believes Jesus' death certificate said: "Jesus Nazarene. Found (guilty of inciting the people to revolt). Put to death in the year 16 of Tiberius. Taken down at the ninth hour."

She said the text then stipulates the body will be returned to relatives after a year.

When info like this surfaces, there seems to be enough surface evidence for His existence, and I believe he was the gnostic head of the essenes/nazarenes, and basically Is Ra El, ascended, Christ formed within him, one with his Higher Self and God. Our teacher. But... if this is all a trap as so often put out, all we can do is: not bear false testimony against such love displayed in the new testament, and keep handing this over to God/Goodness/Highest Love and Goodness in Existence for clarification. So far, I keep getting directed to see the inner meanings, but also consider that overturning their false laws and karma here, with love and compassion and understanding and freeing this planet possibly did take a real True Higher Up, One with God, to come in, to anchor this into 3D. In anycase, I believe in Christ if this account was real or metaphor, for the Christ is real and Christ Consciousness is real and we do have an Intercessor, that leads all of us if we but listen.

Either way I believe in Christ.

And, also, its the only part of the Bible that if you walk this path fundamentally, it will cause the inner metaphoric awakening the rest is all about.

Nasa has a partial eclipse for Jerusalem area, that lasted nearly the said 3 hours, when the sun hid its face, during the crucifixion, on April 3, 33 AD:

eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov...

A little more circumstantial evidence.

There exists mountains of evidence in support of the Exodus. One the actual rock that Moses split with his staff has been identified in Saudi Arabia with a specifically constructed alter that is only known to have been used by Jewish people. The battalion of Egyptian soldiers on chariots has been found on the bottom of the red sea, this happened when Moses parted the water. Also the Jews marked the areas they passed through by regularly etching an outline of a sandal on stones that they past by, this marked the boundary's of the land that was gifted to them as the rightful heirs to it. Many examples of this still exist today and the area is a vastly larger area than the one they currently occupy. The indigenous beings in that land at that time were nephilim hybrids, which is why the Jews were ordered to kill every last one of them. Don't take my word for it watch history play out. Or do some research everything I've written so far is well substantiated through physical archeological evidence. We will see within our lifetime the Gog Magog battle, as well as the destruction of Egypt when the Aswan dam suddenly crumbles. Israel is not the one that is going to destroy the largest amassing of troops to have ever gathered in one place it will be by divine intervention, and likely televised globally. 7 years after the Gog Magog event, will be the battle of Armageddon if I am interpreting it correctly. The exact dates are not meant to be in exact reference to the calendar dates we have now, becuase our current calendar system had not been created yet. You know the worlds not flat right? That's been proven through physical evidence as well, and so has the statement you can't fix stupid.

reply to post by Kaboose

Well if it isn't Flyers Fan the constant atheist poster on ATS making claims based on zero real evidence.

Good luck with your mission to discredit proven historical facts.

The constant atheist?

Oh, .... !!!
Oh, dude.
LOL!!!
Do some homework.

Which "facts" are those? The 'proven historical ones'? Please?

reply to post by chr0naut

Egyptian Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea-Unproven!...
....The Truth:
Much of this eRumor is based on the findings of Ron Wyatt, a colorful and controversial amateur archeologist who claimed to have found Noah's ark, the Biblical Ark of the Covenant, the location of Sodom And Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, the true site of Mt. Sinai, the true site of the crucifixion of Jesus, and the original stones of the Ten Commandments. He was a passionate and sincere man, according to his supporters, but his critics abound and scientists and archeologists regarded him as an untrained maverick at best and there are some who regarded his as a fraud.

www.truthorfiction.com...

there thats the value of a good link
your go

I don't understand how topics such as this are CONSTANTLY in circulation. (ESPECIALLY on ATS)

The reality of all of this is that many of us will die (afterlife or not) never truly knowing how it all began. Maybe that's how it is meant to be maybe it is just because of the "world" we currently live in.

Much of the Bible is so misunderstood by "Religious" people that it almost at times seems to defy logic. They interpret much of it as a very powerful fairy tale.

I do not consider myself "Religious" or "Scientific" I don't even consider myself spiritual although I have definitely had run-ins with both the "christ" and the "spirit" (Both energies-both spirits)

Father-Son-Spirit
Space-Matter-Time SAME BASIC THING.

Big Bang-Singularity-God-SAME THING

We are ALL looking for salvation/creation/beginning

Odds are; They will have to find us if that ever is going to happen and if you look at the state of the world. I'd highly doubt they care too much about doing anything.

(It is what it is)

The Bible which has been often translated and constantly misunderstood appears to be (in my OPINION and BELIEF)
More of a guide as to what HAS happened on earth. Many of those stories exist in OTHER cultures and OTHER religions.

There most likely was some sort of Flood (Whether God or Annunaki or natural) but who are we to say that maybe they didn't do something to upset the energy flow of the planet and create the storm?

I think often times a lot of religious people overlook our bodies for what they are.

Our Pineal Gland can connect us to some pretty wild energy and we are nothing but bodies of energy designed to live and breathe and do literally whatever we can push ourselves to accomplish.

Revelations in the bible I believe is more of JUST THAT....a "REVELATION" that occurs if you truly study the bible..understanding that of these stories, many began before writing was even invented and they were just passed down from generation to generation until the Universe seeded the technology of a written language into the minds of intelligent individuals living at the time. I believe many of these stories are in FACT ..TRUE-Yet they did not begin with the Hebrews. They were passed down from WAY before the flood.

Look at successful thriving civilizations in Africa as far back as 5,000 years ago.

God is VERY REAL-we just don't know what we're looking for. For all we know just by photographing the stars and galaxies we are capturing shots of GOD (Everything)

The Bible seems to lend towards an understanding of one for all--all for one (Central in Jesus)
Yet the very people who are "Christians" are the worst examples of what someone should be like.
Science actively searches to find clues. If we find life somewhere else... or examples of life having been somewhere else. We will shatter the minds of Billions. All in opening up the possibility of a higher intelligence. All in all, our Quest to prove God exists may actually lead us to the right path instead of burying our heads in the sand and believing every word in a book (WHICH IS ABOUT MANKIND-WRITTEN BY MANKIND) This lends credence to the notion that Man created God.

However the Universe (Or what we see of it (Observable Universe-Red/Blue Shift) Shows us that all of this has been happening for a very long time.

I believe that a "Supreme God" does in fact exists but to place some sort of term or label on it is blasphemous beyond belief. We can see the Sun, we can see the Moon, we can even see stars and galaxies and where black holes are. We can name those.

We cannot however lay claim to something that we do not know. Even our "theory" of the Big Bang is still dicey because the observer will see what he wants to. We cannot travel back in time, we cannot travel forward in time (yet) each moment is what is important.

It's such a shame that people who are religious won't open up their arms and be more embracing of their own doctrine of "acceptance" & "tolerance" yet we have people on both sides that are hell bent on tearing down the other.

We live in Hell. Kingdom Come? Is not some magical-mythical place that we will go to (maybe we do) but rather a notion passed down from generation to generation to generation to generation about HOW TO LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY. It begins with Tolerance of others and loving your brother as yourself (to love yourself and forgive yourself so you may do the same to others) it is not about Bigotry and selection.

Selection as in Churches believing they are destine to be selected by God (Not true)

What have you done for me lately? Most Real believers of God's doctrine follow it regardless of whether they believe in "Him" or "It". They merely see the betterment of society as the most basic focus humans should have.

Sadly with our level of corruption this is next to impossible. To overcome the world (as we now see it) would be to FIND GOD. That universal-underlying-understood (even if neglected by many) truth that we are all tied into this together. Even when you try to come across this way-so many people reject you even as you try to accept them-they lack acceptance often times it is the extremes on BOTH SIDES. Being like the figure of JESUS CHRIST. We should hope to all walk down that CENTER LINE. The Bible (originally) I believe was meant to be a guide for the reader who upon reading-was to learn and digest in ways that would make them a better person. They see the persecution when you make selfish decisions and the downfall that accompanies and yet a lot of "RELIGIOUS" people are just wrecking balls of lies and deceit.

The most mind-blowing thing to me is that "Religious" people don't understand how THEY/WE ARE THE DEVIL.
The deception that begins in Genesis-which in my opinion shows that people were led astray early on by one of the first to ever tell the story in written form. My Bible-1599 Geneva has different lines in Genesis that will give you eye opening clues to why things are the way they are and it is simple.

In the Garden-The spirit of the lord (God) tells them that they may eat from ANY tree in the garden. Yet there are TWO tress in the middle...and you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for upon doing so..you will "SURELY DIE".

The Serpent-asks eve...So God said you couldn't eat ANY fruit off the trees? Eve: No we can eat any fruit want from within the garden except for the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. We will die if we eat from that. Serpent: Oh you will most certainly NOT die.. (Deception/Misdirection) You will become more like HIM if you eat that tree. That is why he doesn't want you to eat it.

Eve: Eats the fruit-Adam eats it... FALL OF MANKIND

This Fall-is represented by the thickness of character displayed in Genesis. Of the TWO trees in the middle. God tells them they cannot eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
*****He never mentions the tree next to it in the middle..one of the "TWO"
This tree: Tree of Life.

Politics-Propaganda-Lies-Deceit-Deception-Misdirection- It has been present from the VERY beginning... According to the Bible. Which is to say that in passing down stories.. one of the most important lessons of life is to never make life changing decision without weighing ALL potential options

Don't necessarily believe the religious zealots cursing you to Hell.
Don't necessarily believe the scientific atheists who don't believe in Heaven.

Your FREE will-allows you to make YOUR DECISION.

tinfoilman
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

OF COURSE he would have been schooled in Egyptian

I said Egyptian ONLY. If he was raised by the royal family and they did have Israelite slaves there's no reason to think Moses wouldn't have learned BOTH languages since you want to be able to tell your slaves what to do right?

What I'm telling you is that during this time, according to the Bible, if both languages were spoken in Egypt at the time then Moses would have probably learned both languages. I don't know where you get this idea that Moses could have only learned Egyptian.

According to the Bible it was two groups of people with two languages living with each other. If so, Moses probably knew both languages.

How many in the 19th century American South do you think learned native African tongues vs using a whip and gun to get the idea across to their enslaved minions? Likewise in Rome, the slaves often spoke their native tongue to others captured from thr same area but after being sold, they were often in a home where many slaves from many areas of the empire lived and thus the only common language was Latin. In my opinion, Moses, if he were real and was living under the royal house, he would have been brought up from an early age that he was superior to those subservient to him and there was nothing necessitating them learning the native tongue of the enslaved. I could answer better if I remembered how long it had been alleged that the Hebrews had been living as slaves. It's far more likely that the slaves were able to speak both languages than it was that Moses did. Could he have been multi lingual? It's certainly possible. If any of his duties involved dealings with foreign dignitaries he may well have been conversant in several language groups of the time. It's all just speculation though so once in a while you've got to play devils advocate and look at both sides.

I still wait for the day when they go really hard over in Switzerland with the LHC and fully recreate the Big Bang...........











Then 15 Billion Years down the road.. an intelligent life form will rebuild something similar to the LHC and can begin anew as they search for the answers as to how it all started.

Jim Scott
I hate to bust your bubble, but they have found evidences for the crossing of the Red Sea and the Egyptian chariot wheels from that Dynasty are in the bottom of the sea. Check out Ron Wyatt. encrypted.google.com...:1 Lots of evidence, but believe what you want. I like to follow the facts, however.

are you referring to the claims of Ron Wyatt? He also thinks he found the Ark of the Covenant as well as Noah's ark. Oddly, Wyatt can't produce any of the "artifacts" he claims to have found, no chariot wheels, no chariot parts and no human bones have ever been produced for independent verification. That doesn't sound like enough for even Matlock or Perry Mason to go on.

reply to post by WhoWhatWhenWhere2420


I certainly hope they don't do that! After reading "The First Three Minutes" about the state of the universe in the foist 3 min after the big bang... I don't think it would be terribly hospitable.

peter vlar
reply to post by WhoWhatWhenWhere2420

 

I certainly hope they don't do that! After reading "The First Three Minutes" about the state of the universe in the foist 3 min after the big bang... I don't think it would be terribly hospitable.

HAHA.. Yeah that joke is better conveyed through verbal communication. I meant that as in..

Scientist 1:Are you ready to test this out? See if we can recreate a more realistic version of it?
Scientist 2: Go For it.
.1 Billion
.2 Bilion
.3 Billion
.4 Billion
.5 Billion
.6 Billion
.7 Billion
.8 Billion
.9 Billion
.Earth
.Dinosaurs
.Ice Age
.Man
.Space traveler trying to help humans (Jesus V. 2)
.Large Hadron Collider-Switzerland-
.You Ready?---Go For it.....
Big Bang...
.1 Billion
.2 Billion
etc.

It's all cyclical isn't it?... haha

Still needs some ironing out. Imagine the conversation next time for Christ.. Guys. Please don't blow up the planet again. We're good with you guys using all the science you want..just don't blow up the planet again. It takes 4.5 Billion years for your program to install and you're already aeons behind Mars. That is why it looks empty. They moved before the first ice age-said you guys were too crazy. If I have to come back one more time, nobody's getting into the after-party. We thought the first time would be enough, even worked hard to make this story survive all these years. You know how hard it is to make this supernatural stuff Come off truly kick-ass and not scary when you guys keep forgetting that other living beings exist?
Still selfish. Thinking this whole gosh darn universe belongs only to you. smh. I'm out before you try anything funny again. Moons aren't easy to create either.
Judging by the message "religions" seem to push if you know what you're looking for...as opposed to how people who wrongly interpret it try to drill it into you. It seems as if the Earth is in fact.. The Little Engine that Could not.

Perhaps that is how the universe works. Every planet begins with Life. (In the beginning) Those who advance the fastest (VideoGame: Civilization) Move off world. Finding better worlds. How? Perhaps part of this message. Because of the examples history has provided for us. It is often times too easy to find examples of what happens when people "share" ideologies..yet most often-these ideologies (when united in cause) lead them hook line and sinker into the hands of a Dictator (Only power is on Earth) and a decrease in the overall quality of life. (outside of a select few)
Perhaps these Planets have chased away the Evil-Darkness that clouded the minds of the life forms that lived upon them. Instead of War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
They realized that Peace is to Put Everything Aside & Co-Exist.
They realized that being stuck on a planet in a seemingly endless potential playground it was worth the risk- chased it from day one-In reality..who doesn't want to go home for the first time? (They became dreamers and believers of the previously thought impossible)
They realized that if Ignorance is strength than Unity is God.
See where that strength gets you.

We're only going to the stars if we go together. To repopulate the numerous homes out there. to continue our co-existence. This is the "Evolution" we should hope to go through. (Conspiracies-maybe this is where ancient civilizations left to.)

The question is. Will we make it? One would think if our time remaining is based upon the life of the (Sun/Son) that we would hopefully figure it out so we could go visit the Heavens..together. For we will not last until we find another "Son" who is probably a lot like the last "Sun" if we are to live under him. Forgiving and caring. Just perfect in essence.. so that we may live freely.

These are all musings and fun thoughts. Cheers.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
-Jimi Hendrix

reply to post by FlyersFan


Thanks for the thread FF. I tried a very similar subject some time ago and it did not go over big:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My personal belief: The Bible is written in order to provide spiritual inspiration. To help one lead a good life. The message is one of inclusion and tolerance (at least the NT). Even if someone is agnostic/atheist they can't go wrong following that message.

With regards to the Exodus - great story, great movie, great song(Metallica's Creeping Death), but perhaps not 100% historically factual. No worries. That probability does not affect my faith one bit. Still a great story.

reply to post by WhoWhatWhenWhere2420


haha thanks for providing a more clear context... yes I totally see where you're going with this now!