Gov't shutdown and Chemtrails link???

smurfy
[You are dodging again. First off, you know rightly how much I've talked about aircraft exhaust and novel chemical reactions not properly understood inside the engine and some of those due to scavenging of engine parts and proprietary ingredients..aka secret ingredients in additives,...

Which are those?

and novel chemical reactions in the exhaust,

such as?

and an aircraft motor system does very well on it's own to make cloud cover and with all the ingredients that were in the Welsbach system on a smaller scale. So we can all see what an 'ordinary' contrail can do by default, if indeed an ordinary contrail. It propagates cloud far beyond what is contained in the aircraft's fuel system, add to that the Welsbach patent, which is the same thing in a maximum carrying capacity of the whole aircraft, not just the fuel system what are you going to see?

I don't know because your question makes no sense to me.

I think you are asking what would contrails look like if the welsbach patent were in use and there was nano-aluminum added to fuel?

If that is the case then the answer is easy, I think - nothing.

the aluminium oxide would not look like contrails because it is mot visible.

There would be some effects that would be easily noticeable but not visible though:

-it would be easily detectable because it would be being burned in the fuel all the time so you would get a fairly high concentration around airports.
- there would be a lot more aircraft breakdowns from worn out engines as these nano-particles wreck them.

Now, I am not talking rubbish, since we already know that 'ordinary' aircraft 'contrails' have already been proven a positive radiative force by their actions, in other words they help to trap surface heat more than their clouding aids negative radiative forcing WTF!

I've missed that sorry - I thought eth verdict was still "open" as to whether they offer a net warming or cooling effect - can you link to this definitive conclusion? Thanks

Zaphod58
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Did you actually read beyond the title?

Objectives

7. The basic objective of this programme area is to improve the understanding of processes that influence and are influenced by the Earth's atmosphere on a global, regional and local scale, including, inter alia, physical, chemical, geological, biological, oceanic, hydrological, economic and social processes; to build capacity and enhance international cooperation; and to improve understanding of the economic and social consequences of atmospheric changes and of mitigation and response measures addressing such changes.

Activities

8. Governments at the appropriate level, with the cooperation of the relevant United Nations bodies and, as appropriate, intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations, and the private sector, should:

a. Promote research related to the natural processes affecting and being affected by the atmosphere, as well as the critical linkages between sustainable development and atmospheric changes, including impacts on human health, ecosystems, economic sectors and society;

b. Ensure a more balanced geographical coverage of the Global Climate Observing System and its components, including the Global Atmosphere Watch, by facilitating, inter alia, the establishment and operation of additional systematic observation stations, and by contributing to the development, utilization and accessibility of these databases;

c. Promote cooperation in:

i. The development of early detection systems concerning changes and fluctuations in the atmosphere;

ii. The establishment and improvement of capabilities to predict such changes and fluctuations and to assess the resulting environmental and socio-economic impacts;

d. Cooperate in research to develop methodologies and identify threshold levels of atmospheric pollutants, as well as atmospheric levels of greenhouse gas concentrations, that would cause dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system and the environment as a whole, and the associated rates of change that would not allow ecosystems to adapt naturally;

e. Promote, and cooperate in the building of scientific capacities, the exchange of scientific data and information, and the facilitation of the participation and training of experts and technical staff, particularly of developing countries, in the fields of research, data assembly, collection and assessment, and systematic observation related to the atmosphere.

It doesn't talk about changing the atmosphere, but about monitoring it, and learning why and how it changes, and then taking steps to reduce the impact of man made activities on it.

It's a long document, you're not looking in the right section. Go back to my other post and re-read where I told you to look. Here's a screen capture of the words that I feel say "Chem-trails full speed ahead!"
oi44.tinypic.com...

Mikeultra
It's a long document, you're not looking in the right section. Go back to my other post and re-read where I told you to look. Here's a screen capture of the words that I feel say "Chem-trails full speed ahead!"
oi44.tinypic.com...

It talks about mitigating the effects of ultraviolet radiation reaching the earth's surface due to ozone depletion.

AFAIK "mitigating effects" means that the ultraviolet radition IS going to reach the earth's surface - how can we do something about it when it gets here?

whereas if this is your "evidence" it looks to me like you think that "mitigate the effects" means to stop it getting here and now you think that "chemtrails" are actually going to block ultraviolet radiation and not actually be part of a global warming strategy??

Mikeultra
Section II
Chapter 9
Program Area C
Preventing Stratospheric Ozone Depletion
Objectives
b. To develop strategies aimed at mitigating the adverse effects of ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface as a consequence of depletion and modification of the stratospheric ozone layer.
habitat.igc.org...

C. Preventing stratospheric ozone depletion

Basis for action

22. Analysis of recent scientific data has confirmed the growing concern about the continuing depletion of the Earth's stratospheric ozone layer by reactive chlorine and bromine from man-made CFCs, halons and related substances. While the 1985 Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer and the 1987 Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer (as amended in London in 1990) were important steps in international action, the total chlorine loading of the atmosphere of ozone-depleting substances has continued to rise. This can be changed through compliance with the control measures identified within the Protocol.

Objectives

23. The objectives of this programme area are:

a. To realize the objectives defined in the Vienna Convention and the Montreal Protocol and its 1990 amendments, including the consideration in those instruments of the special needs and conditions of the developing countries and the availability to them of alternatives to substances that deplete the ozone layer. Technologies and natural products that reduce demand for these substances should be encouraged;

b. To develop strategies aimed at mitigating the adverse effects of ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface as a consequence of depletion and modification of the stratospheric ozone layer.

Activities

24. Governments at the appropriate level, with the cooperation of the relevant United Nations bodies and, as appropriate, intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations, and the private sector, should:

a. Ratify, accept or approve the Montreal Protocol and its 1990 amendments; pay their contributions towards the Vienna/Montreal trust funds and the interim multilateral ozone fund promptly; and contribute, as appropriate, towards ongoing efforts under the Montreal Protocol and its implementing mechanisms, including making available substitutes for CFCs and other ozone-depleting substances and facilitating the transfer of the corresponding technologies to developing countries in order to enable them to comply with the obligations of the Protocol;

b. Support further expansion of the Global Ozone Observing System by facilitating - through bilateral and multilateral funding - the establishment and operation of additional systematic observation stations, especially in the tropical belt in the southern hemisphere;

c. Participate actively in the continuous assessment of scientific information and the health and environmental effects, as well as of the technological/economic implications of stratospheric ozone depletion; and consider further actions that prove warranted and feasible on the basis of these assessments;

d. Based on the results of research on the effects of the additional ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface, consider taking appropriate remedial measures in the fields of human health, agriculture and marine environment;

e. Replace CFCs and other ozone-depleting substances, consistent with the Montreal Protocol, recognizing that a replacement's suitability should be evaluated holistically and not simply based on its contribution to solving one atmospheric or environmental problem.

Where does it mention chemtrails?

Aloysius the Gaul

Mikeultra
It's a long document, you're not looking in the right section. Go back to my other post and re-read where I told you to look. Here's a screen capture of the words that I feel say "Chem-trails full speed ahead!"
oi44.tinypic.com...

It talks about mitigating the effects of ultraviolet radiation reaching the earth's surface due to ozone depletion.

AFAIK "mitigating effects" means that the ultraviolet radition IS going to reach the earth's surface - how can we do something about it when it gets here?

whereas if this is your "evidence" it looks to me like you think that "mitigate the effects" means to stop it getting here and now you think that "chemtrails" are actually going to block ultraviolet radiation and not actually be part of a global warming strategy??

edit on 10-10-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

I think what they mean by mitigate, is how can they lessen the impact of ultraviolet radiation reaching the surface. Their attempting to use the chem-trails/chem-cloud cover as a form of sun lotion for the earth. Do you understand now?

reply to post by Mikeultra


You THINK that they will do something to mitigate it, and you THINK that chemtrails are real. Do you see the problem here? You read a document, and made a logical leap without any proof that chemtrails are real in the first place.

reply to post by defcon5


I am falling over with laughter, sort of.

reply to post by smurfy


Then prove us wrong. Instead of sitting here talking about it, be the first to get up and DO SOMETHING, and prove us wrong. There are any number of ways from building a sampling device using weather balloons that you can get online, to buying jetfuel and having it tested. But instead of just posting things on an internet forum, be different, and actually prove us wrong.

Mikeultra

totallackey
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Okay. Excellent. Since you have it saved and I have it saved, then what chapter would you care to discuss as it relates to the topic of chemtrails and weather modification?

Section II
Chapter 9
Program Area C
Preventing Stratospheric Ozone Depletion
Objectives
b. To develop strategies aimed at mitigating the adverse effects of ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface as a consequence of depletion and modification of the stratospheric ozone layer.
habitat.igc.org...

Excellent choice for discussion.

From the same Agenda 21 Section:

Activities

9.24. Governments at the appropriate level, with the cooperation of the relevant United Nations bodies and, as appropriate, intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations, and the private sector, should:
a. Ratify, accept or approve the Montreal Protocol and its 1990 amendments; pay their contributions towards the Vienna/Montreal trust funds and the interim multilateral ozone fund promptly; and contribute, as appropriate, towards ongoing efforts under the Montreal Protocol and its implementing mechanisms, including making available substitutes for CFCs and other ozone-depleting substances and facilitating the transfer of the corresponding technologies to developing countries in order to enable them to comply with the obligations of the Protocol;
b. Support further expansion of the Global Ozone Observing System by facilitating - through bilateral and multilateral funding - the establishment and operation of additional systematic observation stations, especially in the tropical belt in the southern hemisphere;
c. Participate actively in the continuous assessment of scientific information and the health and environmental effects, as well as of the technological/economic implications of stratospheric ozone depletion; and consider further actions that prove warranted and feasible on the basis of these assessments;
d. Based on the results of research on the effects of the additional ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface, consider taking appropriate remedial measures in the fields of human health, agriculture and marine environment;
e. Replace CFCs and other ozone-depleting substances, consistent with the Montreal Protocol, recognizing that a replacement's suitability should be evaluated holistically and not simply based on its contribution to solving one atmospheric or environmental problem

Can you identify, from any of these listed activities from Agenda 21, anything involving aircraft and supposed chemtrails?

NONPOINT21

 

Mod Edit -- Please be advised that you cannot request that members not post in your thread. Every member has the right to post their opinion, be it contrary or approving of your own, in any thread, on any subject. Attempts to effectively "Gate Keep" the conversation will not be tolerated.

 

Ok so I believe that Chemtrails do exist. I live just outside of Cincinnati about 15 miles from the CVG airport and planes come and go all the time. Our city is constantly littered with contrails (a line about 1 inch in the sky behind the plane that stays constant with the plane) and Chemtrails (a line left long after the plane is out of sight and dissipates into a wide area which looks like a wispy cloud).

I have a simple question, since the government shutdown have you seen chemtrails in your cities???? The last week since I've been watching I haven't seen any whatsoever, its actually really refreshing to see a true clear blue sky. It's been a long time, however I will say that even with polarized shades on the sun seems about twice as bright also without the clouds or chemtrail cover.

That's it, just asking if your cities have chemtrails above them today. Have you noticed a change since the shutdown? Cincinnati and surrounding areas do not currently.

If your cities don't have chemtrails that normally you see everyday on your way to work or at lunch on commute home...... could this be a possible connection that sheds a little more evidence that the government is behind these??? They shutdown and these stop for awhile.

Your thoughts please. I for one don't care if it's just coincidence or not, i'm just taking in the beauty of the sky which I haven't seen for a long time.

edit on 10/10/2013 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

I remember about 2 years ago that there was a general election in my country and for 3 whole weeks (a week and a half before and after) there were no chemtrails. I think now that this was to allow the new government a chance to settle in and to be brought up to speed. I believe they were informed that the chemtrailing was a necessity to combat global warming. After 3 weeks they started up again and have continued on an almost daily basis to this day.

reply to post by UpEndedWorld


And weather couldn't possibly have played a role in that? Or changed flight patterns due to winds?

Zaphod58
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

You THINK that they will do something to mitigate it, and you THINK that chemtrails are real. Do you see the problem here? You read a document, and made a logical leap without any proof that chemtrails are real in the first place.

This is still a somewhat free country, I'm still allowed to think, read between the lines, and decipher the truth. I put 2 and 2 together and got 4. Don't take offense because I think chem-trails are part of Agenda 21 and ultimately meant to kill off millions of people. It's from the United Nations, what more do you need to know? I respect your opinion that chem-trails don't exist. I however am convinced they do. Do you know how many people have no idea what Agenda 21 is. Does that mean it doesn't exist?

reply to post by Mikeultra


Did I say you couldn't think? Show me where I even suggested that.

But if you're going to make statements that chemtrails are definitely real, you have to do more than "think" they're real. You have to be able to prove that they are real, and you went from thinking they were real, to stating that they're definitely real and what they're being used for.

It's one thing to believe something is real, but most people require a little proof that something exists and not just "I think" to back it up, or "Look up, and see the difference".

So where exactly in Agenda 21 does it say anything about planes, airships, or chemtrails?

totallackey

Mikeultra

totallackey
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Okay. Excellent. Since you have it saved and I have it saved, then what chapter would you care to discuss as it relates to the topic of chemtrails and weather modification?

Section II
Chapter 9
Program Area C
Preventing Stratospheric Ozone Depletion
Objectives
b. To develop strategies aimed at mitigating the adverse effects of ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface as a consequence of depletion and modification of the stratospheric ozone layer.
habitat.igc.org...

Excellent choice for discussion.

From the same Agenda 21 Section:

Activities

9.24. Governments at the appropriate level, with the cooperation of the relevant United Nations bodies and, as appropriate, intergovernmental and non-governmental organizations, and the private sector, should:
a. Ratify, accept or approve the Montreal Protocol and its 1990 amendments; pay their contributions towards the Vienna/Montreal trust funds and the interim multilateral ozone fund promptly; and contribute, as appropriate, towards ongoing efforts under the Montreal Protocol and its implementing mechanisms, including making available substitutes for CFCs and other ozone-depleting substances and facilitating the transfer of the corresponding technologies to developing countries in order to enable them to comply with the obligations of the Protocol;
b. Support further expansion of the Global Ozone Observing System by facilitating - through bilateral and multilateral funding - the establishment and operation of additional systematic observation stations, especially in the tropical belt in the southern hemisphere;
c. Participate actively in the continuous assessment of scientific information and the health and environmental effects, as well as of the technological/economic implications of stratospheric ozone depletion; and consider further actions that prove warranted and feasible on the basis of these assessments;
d. Based on the results of research on the effects of the additional ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth's surface, consider taking appropriate remedial measures in the fields of human health, agriculture and marine environment;
e. Replace CFCs and other ozone-depleting substances, consistent with the Montreal Protocol, recognizing that a replacement's suitability should be evaluated holistically and not simply based on its contribution to solving one atmospheric or environmental problem

Can you identify, from any of these listed activities from Agenda 21, anything involving aircraft and supposed chemtrails?

Yes. Section C.

reply to post by Mikeultra


Except Section C doesn't. I quoted the entire section, and it doesn't mention aircraft, or chemtrails at all. You can search the entire document and "aircraft" or "chemtrails" isn't mentioned one time.

reply to post by NONPOINT21


Chemtrails are Very Real. Ive lived in the Bronx,N.Y for 37 years in the same area & same house that I am in as we speak. Living in an airplane traffic zone that gets Commercial jets from JFK Airport & many other major airports all day long. I have watched hundreds of planes go over my house everyday for as long as I can remember. There are planes that Leave Contrails, they are Exactly as you described. Then there are Chemtrails that not only make Lines in the sky that don't do away, but those Lines slowly spread out forming a Transparent Cloud that resembles Smog. Some days it's almost as if your Under Attack, I don't Kid when I say that. Multiple Lines from all directions converging together that cover the sky for as far as I can see.

If you use google maps they have Panorama Images & Images from folks who Upload. look at some of those and notice it happens Everywhere. Play station game Grand Theft Auto 5 has them as background for the sky. I don't know if that's propaganda so kids will think that these are Real Clouds but they are in the game.

I went back to Old Pictures from when I was a kid. My family has thousands of Pictures & I could not find One Picture taken from 1975 when I was born to 1990 when I was 15 that had those Trails in the sky where I live. One out of every 5 Pictures taken in in the last 10 years have them. All the pictures are from the same spot.. Front & Backyard of my house, & the park we have went to all out lives.

The only thing that has Changed is those Trails in the sky. The Airplane traffic has been close to the same because I remember watching them fly past every 5 minutes whn I was a Small child 6- 10 years old. I could show you some Ive taken over the past month that show a Clear direct pattern of Spraying over my Neighborhood. If you want ask & I will Upload.

reply to post by NotSoAnonymous


You realize that those trails have nothing to do with JFK or any of the other airports right? They're too close to start leaving a contrail in the Bronx.

Air travel is WAY up in the last few years, or are you saying that 30+ years ago there were 635 million passengers in the US over the course of a year? And in the billions around the world?

Not only is travel up, but technologies have changed radically on those aircraft. You have aircraft that routinely do flights they couldn't even dream of doing 20 years ago, let alone over 30 years ago.

Zaphod58
reply to post by UpEndedWorld

 

And weather couldn't possibly have played a role in that? Or changed flight patterns due to winds?

No. The contrast was as clear as that the OP talks about.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Did I say you couldn't think? Show me where I even suggested that.

But if you're going to make statements that chemtrails are definitely real, you have to do more than "think" they're real. You have to be able to prove that they are real, and you went from thinking they were real, to stating that they're definitely real and what they're being used for.

It's one thing to believe something is real, but most people require a little proof that something exists and not just "I think" to back it up, or "Look up, and see the difference".

So where exactly in Agenda 21 does it say anything about planes, airships, or chemtrails?

I showed you numerous times. It doesn't actually spell it out for you. Read between the lines. They want to mitigate ultraviolet radiation from reaching the ground. U.S. Patent 5003186 sounds like a good fit! Chem-Cloud Cover. They don't want too much UV radiation in. I'm not sure what their total intentions are, but I wish they would stop. If you're a pilot you probably hate the fouled up skies too. You just don't want to admit it. Here's the words to look at circled in orange. Read them until you understand their meaning related to chem-trails and global warming.oi44.tinypic.com...