Catholic Hatred. (Impossible Thread, Episode #2)

DISRAELI

colbe
You spend your time at ATS denying the faith, Roman Catholicism

Just as a footnote;
How can that be true, when I spend 99.99 % of my time on this site not even talking about Roman Catholicism?
Nearly all my time is spent in, and ALL my threads in this forum are about, the presentation of general Christian truth over against the unbelievers of the world.
I find it saddening that you and people like you have no interest in supporting this common Christian endeavour, and only want to get engaged in obsessive arguments with Protestantism
You're more interested in presenting the Pope to Protestants than you are in presenting God and his Christ to the world.
Please, for God's sake (and I mean that literally) consider the possibility of working TOGETHER WITH other Christians, instead of against them.

Otherwise, I have to tell you, the attitude which you represent is the answer to the OP's question. This relentless domineering is the reason why the Roman Catholic church is feared and hated and held under suspicion.

edit on 5-1-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

What are you doing on a Catholic thread or at ATS presenting a "general Christian truth" to unbelievers?
How does that help them? Jesus said the gate is narrow because He established one way, the rest is man-made. I do not want any part of supporting "this common Christian endeavor" as you call it. God
is crying at the division He sees, the heresies believed. He is returning soon (spiritually) to unite Christians and bring non-Christians to the faith. Most of my help at ATS is to keep sharing the words of God given to His chosen messengers today. I share the Protestant too, give me a break. God is preparing us all.

I speak of the Holy Father in other threads, that is not negative. God did not set up the New Covenant, establish His Church with everyone being their own pope which is Protestantism. I say this here and in threads about the faith to address the importance of authority, it is obviously true. There are men as smart as you who discovered this important fact and converted even though they were life long Protestants.

Ecumenism shows no good fruit. This thread will go on to page 1000 by those denying the faith.
It is fine for you to reject Catholicism in your posts but is not alright when Catholics speak up and reject the heresies of Protestantism.

You give the wrong reason for the faith being hated, Our Lord said why this would happen.

It is going to have to be God showing you, I wish you would see before. Think about it, why would Our Lord be speaking of the Eucharist almost every day now to Protestant prophets?

nenothtu
reply to post by colbe

 

Thank you for the links. I see where you are coming from now. It's a place I will not go unless ordered to by the proper Authority, for it is a dangerous ground. I have been to some dangerous places, but they pale in comparison, because they could only kill my body.

Have a nice life, colbe.

edit on 2014/1/5 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Ah, "proper authority", really? The messages from Heaven are for our benefit. Just remember those three non-Catholic Christian messages, okay? Jesus' presence in the Eucharist is the summit.


May the Two Hearts J+M keep you safe neno.

Text

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns), images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." -The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman p.359

The penetration of the religion of Babylon became so general and well known that Rome was called the "New Babylon." -Faith of our fathers 1917 ed. Cardinal Gibbons, p. 106

"The [Catholic] Church took the pagan philosophy and made it the buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, temple of all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs; so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sunday. She took the pagan Easter and made it the feast we celebrate during this season . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom . . . The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . Hence the Church would seem to say, 'Keep that old pagan name [Sunday]. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.' And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus"--William L. Gildea, "Paschale Gaudium," in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809 [A Roman Catholic weekly].

and for many more examples visit link All are from RCC sources.

Mind you, I come from a long line of catholics, in fact, founders of the RCC in America. As far as I know, I'm the only one to have broken from the RCC in our family line for over 300 years so you can imagine how popular I am at family reunions. Not an easy thing to stand alone against everything one has been taught from everyone they've ever met but when God speaks it is more than an epiphany, He carves His Word into your heart and His Word is life-altering.

colbe

Ah, "proper authority", really?

Yes, really.

The messages from Heaven are for our benefit.

I have grave doubts as to the origin of those messages, based upon content, conflict and apparent intended audience.

Just remember those three non-Catholic Christian messages, okay?

There is not much chance I will forget them any time soon.

orangetom1999
nenothtu,

Agree...particularly about the Jews expecting someone or something else out of Jesus. This was made clear to me when Jesus turned to go to the Synagogue or Temple rather than against Rome.

Jesus did what all the prophets before him did..rebuked the Jews for their disobedience and rebellion..failure to keep the Law of Moses and instead substituting the traditions of men.
Just as are doing the Protestants and Catholics today. Many of them without knowing it or even having a clue. And I include myself in this though I am becoming more and more aware of it.
That hidden history thing of which I speak.
What I am suspecting strongly about history is that these two are kept fighting each other ..while something else is taking place seldom seen by either and designed to be this way.

What also made me aware of this was the tenor or vibration of a conversation with a Scottish Rite Mason concerning the rift between Protestants and Catholics. That it was being kept alive in certain circles of adepts.

Sometimes I think that God has a sense of humor in this..the joke is on both of them...though the history of this and consequences of the history is often tragic.

I am strongly suspecting that you can see this hand of the traditions of men in the wars which have taken place ..particularly in the last 150 to 200 years. The years of technology and enlightenment..illumination.
This causes some to look more closely into the history between and leading up to the wars.

There are a handful of teachers researching this from a secular as well as a religious angle and also teaching this tack today..only a handful..but they are out here.

Thanks for your post,
I appreciate it,
Orangetom

edit on 5-1-2014 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)

I am not understanding fully, and would like to. Is there any way you could explain more in depth? Whether that explanation is on open forum or in U2U I do not care.

I simply feel I need this expounded upon.

nenothtu

colbe

Ah, "proper authority", really?

Yes, really.

The messages from Heaven are for our benefit.

I have grave doubts as to the origin of those messages, based upon content, conflict and apparent intended audience.

Just remember those three non-Catholic Christian messages, okay?

There is not much chance I will forget them any time soon.

The nonsense of Catholicism being pagan. You would have to proclaim the same about Protestantism. Here's basically why...

Just because two things are similar does not make them the same.

~ quote from Rev. Woodrow, author of anti-Catholic book called Babylon, Mystery Religion:

..."My reason for pulling the original book (BMR) out of print was quite basic: Citing similarities between Catholic practices and pagan practices proves nothing if there is no actual connection. One could take virtually anything—even McDonald’s golden arches—and do the same: The Encyclopedia Americana (article: "arch") says the use of arches was known in Babylon as early as 2020 B.C. As Babylon was called "the golden city" (Is. 14:4, KJV), can there be any doubt about the origin of the golden arches? As silly as this is, this is the type of proof that has been offered again and again about the supposed pagan origins of the Catholic Church.

It is the same method atheists use in seeking to discredit the Bible and Christianity altogether—not just the Catholic Church. By this method, one also could condemn Protestant and Evangelical denominations such as the Assemblies of God, Baptist, Church of Christ, Lutheran, Methodist and Nazarene: Basic things such as prayer and kneeling in prayer would have to be rejected, as pagans knelt and prayed to their gods. Water baptism would have to be rejected, for pagans had numerous rites involving water. The list could go on and on.

By this method, even the Bible would have to be rejected as pagan. All of the following practices or beliefs mentioned in the Bible were also known among pagans: raising hands in worship, taking off shoes on holy ground, a holy mountain, a holy place in a temple, offering sacrifices without blemish, a sacred ark, a city of refuge, bringing forth water from a rock, laws written on stone, fire appearing on a person’s head, horses of fire, the offering of first fruits, and tithes.

By this method, the Lord himself would be pagan. The woman called Mystery Babylon had a cup in her hand; the Lord has a cup in his hand (Ps. 75:8). Pagan kings sat on thrones and wore crowns; the Lord sits on a throne and wears a crown (Rev. 1:4; 14:14). Pagans worshiped the sun; the Lord is the "sun of righteousness" (Mal. 4:2). Pagan gods were likened to stars; the Lord is called "the bright morning star" (Rev. 22:16). Pagan gods had temples dedicated to them; the Lord has a temple (Rev. 7:15). Pagan gods were pictured with wings; the Lord is pictured with wings (Ps. 91:4)."...


www.catholicthinker.net... -look to the right side of the home page-

reply to post by colbe


You did notice that the quotes in my link were made by the RCC? These are your own people saying these things, not Protestants. Btw, I view RCC and Protestantism as two horns on the same goat.

reply to post by whitewave


This whole "Paganism-Christian connection" is rooted in some truth, but is, as you have done, generally misrepresented by groups like the Seventh Day Adventists, Puritans, mythicists, and atheists.

What is claimed by those groups is that pagan practices, festivals and holidays were adopted by the early church, while the truth is that those things were subjugated by the early church, a much different thing. The difference between adoption and subjugation is that, in the former, you change yourself to bring in the beliefs of another system, while in the latter, you eliminate the other system's beliefs by replacing them with their own.

This accomplished three things:

1. It allowed the church to establish its own traditions, holidays and structure within a culturally familiar environment
2. It provided alternatives for recent converts, so instead of saying "You can't celebrate Saturnalia, because you'd eat meat sacrificed to idols", you say "Here's a Christian festival, Christmas, that you should celebrate instead of Saturnalia"
3. It sufficed to show, over time, that Christianity had "conquered" paganism, and, as with any "conquerer", it took what it wanted

Because the Christian beliefs are not the same as the pagan beliefs, we are not observing pagan rituals when we have, for example, Sunday worship, we are observing Christian rituals. The early church, which was Jewish in nature, was stuck on observing the Sabbath, by following Sabbath Law, and what better way to change the focus from Sabbath Law to Christ than by changing the day of worship from Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, to Sunday, the day Christ was resurrected, and thus the Christian Sabbath. In this way, we are worshiping God, not a day, as the Jews or Seventh Day Adventists do.

OpinionatedB,

I am not understanding fully, and would like to. Is there any way you could explain more in depth? Whether that explanation is on open forum or in U2U I do not care.

I simply feel I need this expounded upon.

Most certainly ..not a problem ..within the limits of my capacity.


Concerning the Jews and even today...many of the intellectual persuasion will often try to declare Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins as a "Revolutionary."

A bit of thinking in view of history will clear this up ..from the Olde Testament unto the New Testament.

Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins is never a "Revolutionary." It was the Hebrews themselves and particularly their leadership who were the "Revolutionaries."

A total reversal of thinking and what was really happening at those times and even today if you know the pattern.

It was the Hebrew leadership themselves who were sponsoring and encouraging another Gospel...another way..overlaid on top of the Law of Moses as if it was the Law of Moses ...when in fact it was no such thing.

The story of the woman caught in adultery..in the very act.is demonstrative of this overlaying. The Law of Moses said they both shall be stoned..meaning a male and female...but they only brought the woman..not the man or male.

The law they were keeping in lieu of the Law of Moses said women get stoned for adultery and men do not. This was not the Law of Moses. It was another law and another god..

You see???

When did the Hebrews switch gods and not tell anyone they had done this?? And why???

And they expected Jesus to follow this phony pattern or template..and He did not. His enemy was not Rome..His enemy and competition was from His own people ..the Hebrew leadership. When they figured this out..the Hebrew leadership had to find a way to get Him out of the picture. Their solution to keep from being exposed for the frauds they were..was to kill Him...just as they did so many of the Prophets before Jesus.

This is what many ministers and men of the cloth will not tell or teach you today about the history or what happened.

Now..I do not necessarily agree with much of what Colbe posts..but they are quite correct here... on the moneys...in the bullseye.

The nonsense of Catholicism being pagan. You would have to proclaim the same about Protestantism. Here's basically why...

Many of the Catholic traditions of men have been incorporated among the Protestants without either the Catholics or the Protestants being aware of it. And I am talking about highly educated people here.

Though it has been many years since I have read it and still have a copy on my private library shelves...this is where I first learned about much of the Catholic practice and dogma...

The Two Babylons

by

Alexander Hislop. 'circa 1912

Many of the holidays and festivals are described here and their origins going back to the ancient days and customs.
Not informations one usually gets in most of what passes for public education today.

This is also why I have also little use for much of what passes for Protestant dogma and tradition.
When you know the history much becomes clear. And history is a poorly taught subject today next to the importance of it to us and our thinking capabilities/potential. I do not think this accidental that history is poorly taught today.
This is one reason I like older books verses much of the new stuff out today..this includes older dictionaries.


Now as to the Scottish Rite Mason...this was an unusual conversation as he did not directly state that there was a conflict going on ..but it was obvious from the tone of his remarks that he believed against Catholic Dogma and considered Catholic dogma to be bondage or backwards..something not to be followed.
Now in those days..I did not know the things as do I today..but I remember the bulk of the conversation because it was so unusual to me.

It was only later that I began to read certain Occult works...that I began to get a feel for the width and breadth of the Catholic and anti Catholic sentiment going back centuries.
This too is not often taught in public schools.

This is because in public schools they are teaching basic new age masonic principles without once mentioning any connnection to the lodges.

Basically.."all gods are the same god and all religions are the same religion."

If this is true...what they are attempting to teach and defalut through to our children...

Than "The children of the bondwoman"...Hagar through her son Ishmael... "shall be heir with the children of the freewoman" Sarah through her son Issac.

This is not Bible..like the Hebrew leadership..

What the Word states in Galatians chapter four is..

"For the children of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the children of the freewoman."

When did our own government switch gods and not tell anyone they had done this????

I can demonstrate this in other manners as well. That our own government has switched gods and told no one they have done this..by default.


As to God having a sense of humor...I will tell you that I do not celebrate christmas..nor New years..nor birthdays...nor Easter etc etc et al.

I try in the poor way I do to treat every day the same..for they are all His days.

However the humor in this daykeeping tradition of men is that today we have Atheists trying to stop Christians from celebrating and removing Christmas from every public display ..particularly on government property. But make no mistake ..once they get their foot in the door it will be all displays..no matter what.

And conversely ..the Christians are arguing for keeping all this tradition.

The significance of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins is for whom He died and shed His Blood..not His Birth. And this ...24/7...365 days a year.

Birthdays are a pagan custom and tradition..not Christian nor instruction for the Hebrews.

Nowhere..Olde or New Testament do you find any instruction for God's people to celebrate a birthday. But you do find it among the pagan traditions. For a birthday is self glorification...and all Glory is His..not ours.

You see?? How easy it is for traditions to turn things around backwards if you do not know the history and the customs??

Both the Believers and Atheists are debating a phony here. I just realized one day...does God have a sense of humor??

It also helped me think it through when I realized how many unbelievers and atheists celebrated christmas...this was key in making me give it up..cold turkey....many many years ago.

I am not telling you what to do here..you drive your own bus. I am just showing you something about the history which is missing from our knowledge.
This is why history is important. We would not know when someone is trying to sell us a wooden nickle if we do not know any history.

This knowledge slowly lead to examining other customs and traditions of men..even our wars and conflicts..for the phonys that they are..even today..with all our technology of which we boast. The conflicts seem want to go on and on and on..ad naseum..never to end. I think the are designed to do exactly that ...go on ..never end...among great confusion.

You need to find out the name of the author of confusion here.

Hope this helps in some small way and itself makes some sense
in a maddening world.

Ask more if needed.
Orangetom

OpinionatedB,

I am going to point out something else which becomes very telling about the traditions of men once one gets their mind and soul around what I am going to clarify here for you and the readers.

This business of the Sabbath.

Since the Cross...the Sabbath is a person..it is not a day.

Sabbath means rest or peace.

This is different from the Olde Testament Sabbath.

It is also one of the names, among many names, for the Lord Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins.

Believers are to rest in Him...24/7...365 days a year.

Not in daykeeping traditions of men..or another word for it is bondage.

This is part and parcel of the simplicity of the Gospel.

But this is not what one gets from most ministers or men of the cloth today.

Now people meet on Sundays at the meeting houses across this country because this is often the one day most have off. Some meet on Wednesday nights. No problem with either day. Just meet and glorify Him. But don't ever try to tell me it is a particular day.

We meet and teach and strengthen the bretheren. Not on a particular day ..but any chance we get..but yes..many people meet on particular days because it is the only day they have off from work. No problem with me on this.

Some of us are even Hams and meet over the airways, across the country and sometimes across continents, to have discussions like we are having here right now..about everything and anything...and also to gloify Him. And this any and every chance we get.

But the New Testament Sabbath is not a day..it is a person..it is Him.

Hope this too helps,

When you get some of these patterns down ..you begin..albeit slowly ..to see how the world lies and deceives us on many things...often right out here in front of us ..daily. This because we took a big bite out of the traditions without thinking and without knowing.

If you think I am joking or making this to be nonsense...look at that word or expression..."without thinking."

This is the word we know as

Amuse...Amusement.

a...without

muse....thinking..

Without Thinking..amuse/amusement

Something often fed to us to prevent thinking.

It is all around us ..daily.

Hope his helps as well,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


To everyone, this question is specifically for orangetom...


You speak of traditions of men, and the law of Moses... What was the difference in Jesus' Day?

Also, I have asked my husband to try to explain, but can you also try... two people may sometimes explain the same thing differently, one maybe uses a way that helps for understanding better...

I do not understand Jesus being a sacrifice for sin..... well... I am attempting to understand this... my husband explained last night... but I am not quite getting it. I thought it was symbolic in the old testament... yet some think Jesus died for sin...

Why? Can you explain this concept?

OpinionatedB

You speak of traditions of men, and the law of Moses... What was the difference in Jesus' Day?

Ahh...ok..excellent question. I should probably have clarified this from the beginning and it would have helped in making other parts of my posts more clear to you.

Traditions of men are anything other than what God has instructed His people to do as part of His Way. Most of His Way survives for us in his Word.

The example of the woman caught in adultery ..this is a tradition of men in how the Hebrew Leadership were carrying it out. They caught this woman in adultery..in the very act. Yet they brought before Jesus only the woman ..they did not bring the man. The tradition the Hebrew leadership had substituted for the Law Of Moses said that women get stoned for adultery and men do not. This was not the Law of Moses but another law ...meaning the Hebrews were worshipping another god and following another law....by this tradition.
This is why Jesus often called the Pharisees to be of their father the devil...because He knew of this substitution by traditions of men. The Hebrew leadership were in rebellion..against God and they were revolutionaries..not Jesus.
You see??
And they had dragged the Hebrew people into this tradition with them..many without knowing what was happening..into another god.


But few recognize it for what it is until someone shows us. And many ministers do not teach this far. They do not dare.

Also, I have asked my husband to try to explain, but can you also try... two people may sometimes explain the same thing differently, one maybe uses a way that helps for understanding better...

I do not understand Jesus being a sacrifice for sin..... well... I am attempting to understand this... my husband explained last night... but I am not quite getting it. I thought it was symbolic in the old testament... yet some think Jesus died for sin...

Why? Can you explain this concept?

I will try this as best I can.

The Olde Testament required blood sacrifice for sin. In this case animal sacrifice. Sheep, cows and other animals..doves..etc.

There was by instruction a sacrifice twice a day...at 9 am in the morning and at 3pm in the afternoon. And this went on all year long.

Often it was a sheep..a lamb without blemish. These animals were observed when they were born to be without blemish and made available for sacrifice after the instructions to the priesthood..the Levites.

Now the pattern of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins is that He went upon the cross at 9am in the morning and gave up the ghost as 3pm in the afternoon.
Now Pilate the Roman Governor was astonished when told this because so many men had lasted longer than this on the cross..often for days. What had happened here is that Jesus met the time appointed for the Olde Testament Sacrifice.

Now Jesus is often called the Lamb without blemish...the perfect sacrifice. This is also often called The Cross.

This is significant..because up until the Cross ...the Olde Testament was still in effect. And Jesus kept the Olde Testament under the Law of Moses while He walked here on this earth. It was His people and particularly the Hebrew leadership who were not keeping the Olde Testament Law of Moses.

This is significant about Jesus on the Cross as it ushered in the New Testament...by His Blood Sacrifice. This is why you sometimes see me call him by Many names..including Blood.

For Believers are saved by His Blood..not by putting monies in the box...by doing this or that...not by Baptism, not by saying so many prayers etc etc ad nausem....but by His Saving Blood.
When we stand before God ...He needs to see the Blood on us..not anything we do or have done but His Saving Blood...because of His Sacrafice as the Lamb without blemish as part of that Olde Testament pattern...to usher in the New Testament we are saved by His Blood.

For a Testament is a promise..a covenant. A last will and testament. For a testament is of no effect without the death of the testator. This is known throughout the world that the final effect which make a testament go into effect...the testator dies..gives up the ghost.
Paul goes to great lengths to explain this about a testator in the book of Hebrews.
Now a will and testament can be changed many times as the testator lives..but the will and testament which goes into effect is the last will and testament at the time the testator dies or gives up the ghost.

In this manner Jesus is the sacrafice for sin...a more perfect sacrafice than animals. In this manner it is a finished work..never to be done again..not needed again.

And what is more..this was foretold in the OLde Testament.

For both in the Olde Testament and in the New Testament ..you see a lineage...from Adam to David..from David to Jesus The Christ For Remission Of Sins.
This to show He is who the Word claimed He is.

And that it is a finished work.

If you think this is all just talk and some words on paper..

Many today do not know that the Jews are researching with DNA science the engineering of a perfect Red Hefer to offer as a sacrafice for when they retake the temple mount from the
Arabs. They are also looking up and DNA testing certain people of the name Cohen...as they go back to the Levitical priesthood.
They intend to return back to the Olde Testament sacrafices when they get back the Temple mount.
And Many Christians are on board with this tradition of men...helping them to accomplish this.

They are saying it is not a finished work and we are going to set back up the Olde Testament System and do it over again.

Well..I am going on again..down rabid trails..but I hope this helps you to understand the sacrifical aspect of Jesus and His Blood.

Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


Why does God need bloodshed in order to forgive sins?

I am not fighting, just trying to understand these concepts. My husband says sacrifice was not for God, but for us... men needed the sacrifice...

I honestly don't get it. I talk to God all the time, and He speaks with me in various ways. When I have sinned, I repent and pray forgiveness, and am forgiven.

I don't understand sacrifice or the need of it.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


God is Holy and can not stand to look on sin. We were created without sin but, like Lucifer chose to rebel against God, we also chose to rebel against God in the garden of Eden. Lucifer was cast out of heaven and we were cast out of the garden.
Because God loves His children (us) even more than we love our own children, He provided a way for God and man to be in fellowship with each other again, blood sacrifice. The old testament practice of sacrificing a perfect lamb was a foreshadow or picture of what was to come-Jesus. Jesus lived his entire life sinlessly and in perfect union and harmony with God as we were supposed to have done but failed. When He shed His blood on the cross willingly He became "the Lamb of God", a perfect sacrifice.
When we come before our God we do so in the name and under the acceptable covering of Jesus. Kind of like a notorious convicted felon (us) waving a presidential pardon (Jesus blood sacrifice) everywhere they go. We can get in to places (presence of God) with that pardon whereas if we didn't have it, we'd be tossed out on our rears.

reply to post by whitewave


If God cannot stand me (because I have sinned) why does He speak with me?

reply to post by adjensen

You keep blaming the atheists, pagans, and Protestants for these accusations of paganism in the RCC. I only offered RCC sources.
Also, "a little leaven leavens the whole lump". It's not a good thing. Christ is the bread of life and He doesn't need any fillers or fluff to nourish our soul.

reply to post by OpinionatedB

God can not stand the sin. He loves you.
I tell my kids to stay out from under the kitchen sink because it's full of poisons for them. They disobey and ingest something poisonous from under the sink. Do I no longer love them because they disobeyed? Of course I still love them and immediately forgive them but that doesn't get the poison out of their system. Christ is the antidote to the poison of our disobedience to God. He's the ultimate "detox" to the sin that poisons us.

reply to post by whitewave

You keep blaming the atheists, pagans, and Protestants for these accusations of paganism in the RCC. I only offered RCC sources.

I don't think that you read anything I wrote beyond that. Or perhaps you didn't understand it, because if you read those sources, they concur that paganism was subjugated, not adopted.

You might as well say that we're all First Nations or Native American people, because we took over their land.

reply to post by adjensen


Oh, I read it. That's why I made the reference to a little leaven leavening the whole lump. Adopted or subjugated... makes no difference. Leaven is leaven whether it's brewers yeast or baker's yeast. It's still fluff and filler. Not needed in the bread of life. I believe that even the Eucharist (which you claim is the transubstantiated body of Christ) has no yeast, correct? (trick question cuz I already know the answer since I used to make the bread for the Sunday service at a place that used it).
Simplicity in Christ, no fillers needed.