Did Abraham ever really exist?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Sure he does Abraham in the Sumerian Text Why his Daddy Was Well Known Abes Daddy !!!

Abraham Was a Sumerian!!

and we all know about Ancient Aliens and Sumerians in Mythology's Right!!!


So!!

The Line of Abraham is From Sumaria!!

Lone12

GafferUK1981
Of course he never existed, the Bible like the Quran and Torah are mere fairytales. You've researched and discovered for yourself that there is no evidence of Abraham.

Maybe there was once a nice guy who helped people who the stories were based on but 1500 years of Chinese whispers would have destroyed any truth. Let's not forget the Bible also painted Abraham as a nasty misogynist. Let's remember that and not just the good things.

I'm sorry if my blunt point of view offends people but I don't really care. If you're going to be stupid enough to live your life believing in fairytales without ANY evidence to support them you deserve to be told the truth.

There was no Abraham as the Bible depicts, in the same way as there was no Jesus. But most important of all there is NO god. Never was, never will be.

Wake up now and get living this precious life you have, you won't get another chance.

edit on 25-9-2013 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)

- thank you.
You ve just posed your fundamental stance.

*grin*

..now yóu will be in for a Surprise....

- i wish everyone the Very Best.

Please keep pondering
and continue looking for Context

..thats why You re on ATS

reply to post by w810i

Once again you have to take in the account the effect religion had on people back then. It wasn't something that was questioned.

You mean just like now? There are loads of people who don't 'question' religion, still.

And it still results in murder. We're not all that "enlightened." And people are basically the same. The difference now is that we are ALLOWED to explore other ideas. Indeed, Jesus himself (as depicted) did just that. He wasn't the first, nor the last, to openly challenge religious ideas and social ills based on them. Sadly, his best effort failed; yet many billions have "heard his message" - and jumped right back into the "no questioning allowed" mindset.

It's astounding to me how many people are willing to accept what a robed clergyman says, to hold it above one's own ability to think, feel, and experience life.

It goes back to fear. Fear of the unknown; and a desperation to "know" the truly "unknowable" - any port in a storm, eh?

This reminds me of Penn & Teller show about Bible.

We know for fact that most of biblical stories are passed down as oral tradition and once written, combined into one book what we call today Bible. Even stories about Jesus were written 150-200 years after his life, if he ever really existed. Now they show how reliable even written stories are by comparing it to stories about King of Rock - Elvis Presley. From those telling that Elvis never used drugs to conflicting stories (from his close friends) what his favorite food was or even that he did not die?!

You see where we going with this? Sounds familiar?

For those interested to see video - Penn And Teller Bull# - The Bible. If you have Bible, you can follow...

I can link a bunch of websites proving the exact opposite of what you're claiming, that in fact Abraham DID exist, exactly as described in the Torah.

Whether you believe in his existence or not comes down to faith, plain and simple. Faith. Faith, do you have it or not?

www.crossroad.to...

Did Moses really write Genesis? I believe he did, and I believe Biblical "higher criticism" is wrong, I believe in the Traditional view of Scripture and the view of Conservative Christians / Orthodox Judaism;

Computer agrees: Genesis had only one author

The following quote comes from Omni magazine of August 1982:

‘After feeding the 20,000 Hebrew words of Genesis into a computer at Technion University in Israel, researchers found many sentences that ended in verbs and numerous words of six characters or more. Because these idiosyncratic patterns appear again and again, says project director Yehuda Radday, it seems likely that a sole author was responsible. Their exhaustive computer analysis conducted in Israel suggested an 82 percent probability that the book has just one author.’

creation.com...

Lone12
- i wish everyone the Very Best.

Please keep pondering
and continue looking for Context

..thats why You re on ATS

No. Most people are on ATS to prove that THEY are right, and YOU are wrong. They're not here to learn anything.

godlover25
I can link a bunch of websites proving the exact opposite of what you're claiming, that in fact Abraham DID exist, exactly as described in the Torah.

Sites are not proof of anything. I call it wishful thinking, and even my wife's aunt, who first time went online at age of 70 knows that you can NOT thrust everything you see/hear, or in this case, read on sites with questionable background, purpose and agenda.

What you missing is proof - or so called hard evidence.

godlover25
Whether you believe in his existence or not comes down to faith, plain and simple. Faith. Faith, do you have it or not?

Exactly! This of course contradicts with first sentence as faith is not based on proof or evidence, but rather on lack of the same.

No, in science we don't do faith, just facts and theories how did it happen. Then we prove theory by experimenting or providing evidence like in archeological world.

godlover25
www.crossroad.to...

Hope you get idea that something written in bible is hardly evidence?! There is no archeological evidence of exodus as described in bible, there is no evidence of Egypt being punished as described in the same. Speaking of punishment, do you take it moral to kill 'firstborns' for deeds of parents? Interesting moral value you can get from that story...

godlover25
Did Moses really write Genesis? I believe he did, and I believe Biblical "higher criticism" is wrong, I believe in the Traditional view of Scripture and the view of Conservative Christians / Orthodox Judaism;

Computer agrees: Genesis had only one author

The following quote comes from Omni magazine of August 1982:

‘After feeding the 20,000 Hebrew words of Genesis into a computer at Technion University in Israel, researchers found many sentences that ended in verbs and numerous words of six characters or more. Because these idiosyncratic patterns appear again and again, says project director Yehuda Radday, it seems likely that a sole author was responsible. Their exhaustive computer analysis conducted in Israel suggested an 82 percent probability that the book has just one author.’

creation.com...

Yet prominent professor that believes in Bible in video I provided tells otherwise. He is telling that multiple authors explain contradiction that occurs in beginning of Genesis (In chapter 1 Adam and Eve are both created and in following chapter, after Adam got bored, God created Eve our of his ribs - 2 stories that contradict with each other).

Now question that you should be able to answer - if Moses wrote Genesis - what language he used, is there any proof of this (remains) and how would you know he did it?! Is ti still word of God or word of Moses?

That statement at end is just pure joke of science... it proves nothing, and as I already said, even those studying Bible are telling otherwise.

I really strongly suggest you watch video. You will find it very educational...

godlover25
I can link a bunch of websites proving the exact opposite of what you're claiming, that in fact Abraham DID exist, exactly as described in the Torah.

Then post it. If you've got information that proves Abraham existed ... post it.
Otherwise ... just saying that you have it means nothing.

Abraham (supposedly) lived 2000 BC.
The stories about him were written 1500 years later. 500 BC.

It's not possible for a story to be accurate when passed on by word of mouth for 1500 years.
Heck ... we can't even get a straight story on what happened in Benghazi a year ago,
let alone something that happened 1500 years ago. Ya' know???

Ah , religion....What's the difference with believing in Zeus , Apollo or Santa Claus ?

godlover25
The following quote comes from Omni magazine of August 1982:

‘After feeding the 20,000 Hebrew words of Genesis into a computer at Technion University in Israel, researchers found many sentences that ended in verbs and numerous words of six characters or more. Because these idiosyncratic patterns appear again and again, says project director Yehuda Radday, it seems likely that a sole author was responsible. Their exhaustive computer analysis conducted in Israel suggested an 82 percent probability that the book has just one author.’

creation.com...

Interesting how that "study" seems to exclude an event even more probable than a single author and that is that earlier traditions put to writing and edited by a single individual. There's no evidence either way though so insisting that any of what you quoted is 100% accurate is disingenuous at best.

reply to post by FlyersFan


As I stated I don't buy the documentary hypotheses, I think the JEDP-redactor theory is bunk, I believe Moses was the sole author of the Pentateuch and it was written between 1500 - 1400 B.C., I believe the Pentateuch was written about 300-400 years post-Patriarchal period (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob),

Several sources and dependable Scholars agree with my view (the Traditional view), including Jesus and Paul.

www.leaderu.com...

creation.com...

www.apologeticspress.org...

God bless

reply to post by kanakaris


6.5 billion of 7 billion people walking earth believe in some sort of Deity in one form or another, and 90% of humanity throughout history has believed in Deity....

It is ingrained on the human psyche to worship and seek the Divine, some have even debated referring to Homo Sapiens as Homo Religiosis, or "Religious Man",

Mans search for it's Creator goes as far back as Mans history,

Many evolutionary biologists agree that mans early religiosity began with Shamanism, the tribal Medicine man / witch doctor in per-historic context, and before that Animism and goddess worship, this is when Man first began looking to its creator after the Fall,

Perhaps the feeling of nakedness that is attributed to Adam and Eve is best understood as a parable representing the feelings of isolation, or “nakedness”, that came with our self-awareness. They became aware of themselves as individuals. It became apparent that they were individual and separate from the world around them. (I shall argue later on that this feeling of separateness is an artificial construct - a side effect of language - that we have yet to dispel as myth, and that remains the primary reason for the disassociating world view that seems prevalent in our species, and is at the root of many of our fears and anxieties.) And concurrent with this awareness, came the awareness, or ability to conceptualize our own mortality. Our knowledge of our own eventual death was achieved; gone for good was any possibility of maintaining the “blissful” ignorance of the purely animal state of being. It should not be difficult to imagine how that feeling of vulnerability might have felt similar to being exposed, or being “naked”.

At some point in our evolutionary development, the earliest members of the Human Race began to project this newly evolved sense of “self” out into the world around us. Since “we”, as self-aware individuals, can only realize ourselves in the singular, or as one unique position in space, separate and distinct, it is understandable that our conception of the spirits existing in the Unseen World would closely resemble the spirit that existed within ourselves. We perceived them as individuals. Individuals with very much human qualities. It was not, given the sophistication of the early human mind, unreasonable to assume that the spirits existing in nature had the same basic characteristics as a human individual. Animism1 began to grace everything around us with spirit.


God bless

kanakaris
Ah , religion....What's the difference with believing in Zeus , Apollo or Santa Claus ?

hmmm ! Really you Don't know !


Zeus Apollo greek mythology

Santa Claus aka Chris Cringle

is not a god but a Hero!! in Nordic Germanic Mythology ! and NOTHING to do with Christianity



Santa aka as Old Man Winter Father Winter

OMG People Most of Christmas you know the Mistletoe The Tree Candles Nutmeg Green n Red Santa Feasting Etc.. is all from Germanic and Nordic Mythology ...

Germanic paganism, Odin, and Christianization
en.wikipedia.org...

Prior to Christianization, the Germanic peoples (including the English; Old English geola or guili) celebrated a midwinter event called Yule.[12] With the Christianization of Germanic Europe, numerous traditions were absorbed from Yuletide celebrations into modern Christmas.[13] During this period, supernatural and ghostly occurrences were said to increase in frequency, such as the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. The leader of the wild hunt is frequently attested as the god Odin and he bears the Old Norse names Jólnir, meaning "yule figure" and the name Langbarðr, meaning "long-beard" (see list of names of Odin).[14]

OK Back on Topic here ya goes

OUR RELIGION CAME from Sumerian
well all from the same source of the 3 branches of Abraham that is
Judaism Christianity and Muslim

and one thing that does exist that cant be denied is there is a story about the Great flood (Deluge) in a Sumerian text tablet that does exist !!!!

Abraham- the Son of a

Sumerian Oracle Priest

Part 1

Robert D. Mock MD

[email protected]
www.biblesearchers.com...

The story of Abram is retold millions of times as a favorite to children all around the world. The drama in the Torah and the Old Testament is simple. With the addition of the Inter-testament Book of Jasher, the Ebla Tablets, and the ancient Sumerian tablets, it reveals a “Man of all Seasons” born to Terah, the High Priest of the Temple of Ur, and he becomes a contemporary and threatened rival to Nimrod the Mighty Hunter, the builder of the Tower of Babel in the Land of Sumer, who received his power and authority by the stolen garments of skins given by the Lord of hosts to Adam.

Here is the origin of ancient Sumer, where Enmeduranki, the first High Priest was devoted to the service of an extra-terrestrial dynasty of rulers, known as the Watchers in the Inter-testament Books of Enoch, Jasher and Jubilees. Here the Sumerian god, Marduk, the son of Enki, became the god of Sumer and Chaldea. Here was the family of Enki, a brother called Enlil, who caused the Flood of Noah, and the father Anu, the Ancient and Hidden One. In this realm of the ancients, the Priesthood of Sumer was given access to the Divine Celestial Tablets of Anu. Here, in the land of the Annukians, as described in the books by Sitchen is the origin of the Chaldean Magi and the life of the High Priest of Ur (Uratu), Terah, who introduces Abram, the son of the Oracle Sumerian Priest.

reply to post by peter vlar


If you followed the link you quoted in your reply you'd see the person who used earlier traditions and committed them to writing was Moses himself, and probably the Pentateuch was also partially written by Moses brother Aaron, and finished off by Israelite Levitical Priests and Joshua, then copied and passed down by Scribes throughout the years

reply to post by Wolfenz


It's also been suggested Abraham was a descendent of the Horite Priestly class -

jandyongenesis.blogspot.com...

Abraham, Noah, King David, Solomon etc, etc - they're as real as King Arthur.

That is to say, if there ever was a real person that the legend was based on, it is now impossible to peel away all the layers and centuries of folklore and mythos built up around them, so much that's really only the faintest kernel of truth remains, and certainly nothing supernatural.

reply to post by VelvetSplash


Really?

The Bible is the most trustworthy historical account we have,

In 1868, a stone tablet was discovered in Jordan. It was written by a Moabite king named Mesha, an enemy of Israel.

The stone dates to around 840 BC, less than 200 years after David and it provides the first known reference to the "House of David" outside the Bible.

"And 'House of David,' it means 'dynasty of David.' So we know that there was a guy called David, and he had a dynasty," Garfinkel said. "Okay, so now this is absolutely clear that David is not a mythological figure. So the mythological paradigm collapsed in one moment."

More than a hundred years later the same phrase, "House of David," turned up on another stone, this time in northern Israel.

It was written about 200 years after David's rule -- again, by one of Israel's enemies, Hazel, the king of Damascus. "He said, I killed 70 kings. I killed a king from Israel and a king from the House of David," Garfinkel explained.

One of David's greatest victories took place in the valley of Elah. This is where the young shepherd boy killed the giant Goliath, and it's one of the few places where you can still catch a glimpse of the Israel that David knew.

Nearby are the ruins of the Philistine city of Gath, the hometown of Goliath and the remains of the brook where David found the stone that killed him.

And high above the valley is a fortress that's thousands of years old to the local Bedouin. This place is still known as "Khirbet Daoud" or "David's Ruin." It's the only iron age city in Israel that's perfectly preserved and almost frozen in time.

"For us as archaeologists, this is one of the richest sites in Israel. This is like a biblical Pompeii," Garfinkel said.

The Hebrew name is "Khirbet Qeiyafa" or "Fortress of Elah." Garfinkel first uncovered the city in 2007. He recovered some burnt olive pits from the site and sent them to Oxford University for carbon-dating. The results surprised even Garfinkel himself. "It turns out that this beautiful city and all the finds is from about 1020 to 980 BC, and this is exactly the time of King David," he said.

In David's day, the Valley of Elah served as a neutral zone between the Israelites and the Philistines. In Qeiyafa, which was right on the frontlines, excavators discovered a large cache of weapons.

"We are shedding some light on the story of David and Goliath. We are in the same location, in the same time the city is heavily fortified. We have all these weapons, so I'm telling you that this indeed was an area of conflict between two political units," Garfinkel said.

In the Bible, this fortress is mentioned with a diferent name, Sha'Araym, "The city of two gates." In 1 Samuel 17, Sha'Araym is the place where the Philistines fled after David killed Goliath.

"Sha'Arayim means in Hebrew "two gates." In KQ, we have two gates. So if you take the biblical tradition, the location, the chronology, the meaning of the name -- all these aspects fit Qeiyafa perfectly," Garfinkel said

www.cbn.com...

Fox News has a piece: www.foxnews.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Some more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

God bless

godlover25
reply to post by peter vlar

 

If you followed the link you quoted in your reply you'd see the person who used earlier traditions and committed them to writing was Moses himself, and probably the Pentateuch was also partially written by Moses brother Aaron, and finished off by Israelite Levitical Priests and Joshua, then copied and passed down by Scribes throughout the years

No, I actually did go to the links you posted, otherwise I'd just be talking out my A$$. This specific link utilizes biblical verses and an unidentifiable clay tablet as evidence. Its really easy to convince those who already believe but in science none of that is actually considered evidence. Nice backtracking however from Moses definitely wrote all of it to some of it was written by his brother and finished by priests and in fact it rather completely contradicts the premise of the link you called me out on.

reply to post by peter vlar


Even the link I supplied agrees that the end of the Pentateuch was written by Joshua as it records Moses death, and I did not say Moses did not write MOST of it, I'm just saying it's likely that he had input from his brother Aaron as he was very close with him, and I'm sure through the years the Scribes who copied it fixed any grammatical errors and polished up words here and there, but the foundation of it and probably at least 90% of it was written by Moses hand.