Faith Healer Convinces Followers To Never Vaccinate, Now Church The Center Of Measles Outbreak (VIDE

reply to post by Grimpachi


i guess those quotes are all from psuedo-MD's that went to psuedo-medical school for 8 or more pseudo-years at pseudo-universities?

man i better re-think all of this...

ETA: please nobody mention the psuedo-courts that have ruled in favor of this psuedo-science. we dont want to de-rail the thread!

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly


Perhaps if you could be specific as to what studies they performed or used to form their opinions I could properly reply that is what I refer to as science not a doctors credentials.

ETA: I am aware of some court cases however if you could be specific then that would be helpful because the cases I have read didn't show what you seem to imply.

reply to post by TheMagus


That's a bummer about the tonsil thing. Lost those with my adenoids at 8. When my daughter had a couple of sore throats when she was little I assumed they would do the same with her but they told me they don't routinely do this anymore. Seems they are learning.

I never gave it much thought until a couple of years ago but having a fever is the way the body rids itself of illness (bacteria and viruses). It used to be that if a fever hit 100 or above it was an automatic Tylenol. I spoke with a public health nurse about this and she told me they are actually only recommending a fever reducer to relieve discomfort (if present) or if the fever gets to 103. She was referring to the age of myself and my child at that time so it could be a different limit for an infant/younger child.

I grew up believing a fever was a bad thing that had to be brought back to normal right away. We have come a long way in the medical world in a short period of time. With immuniizarions - have them all and they haven't affected me (that I'm aware of) or my kids. All are healthy. But no flu shot for this family. That's one I decided on a few years ago after a good conversation with a CDC employee. It can be helpful but the flu changes each year - mutates. It would not be deadly to anyone in my family (not in high risk category), so letting the body fight it "if" you even get it makes more sense. Vaccines for this are new each year so we can never know the effects it might have, plus not knowing what they put in it (all the extras). Weighing all of that with "maybe" getting the flu every few years makes that an easy decision. But they sure try to get people to take that one. Give it out for free in some places.

reply to post by Grimpachi


perhaps.

but im usually partial to doing work for people too lazy to do it themselves.

perhaps a google search of US and italian courts (theres more but those are the most published) awarding compensation for damages found due to vaccination.

but first you must decide if these courts fall under your psuedo-criteria.

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly


Well here’s some info on one of your good doctors.

Dr. Robert Mendelsohnwww.quackwatch.com...

." He opposed water fluoridation, immunization, coronary bypass surgery, licensing of nutritionists, and screening examinations to detect breast cancer. One of his books charged that "Modern Medicine's treatments for disease are seldom effective, and they're often more dangerous than the diseases they're designed to treat"; that "around ninety percent of surgery is a waste of time, energy, money and life"; and that most hospitals are so loosely run that "murder is even a clear and present danger."

From 1981 to 1982, Mendelsohn was president of the National Health Federation, a group whose primary purpose is to prevent government agencies from protecting consumers against quackery.

Then there is Dr. Daniel Duffy Sr. DC who said.

"AIDS and SARS are ways for epidemiologists (e.g., the CDC, WHO, etc.) to secure their jobs and continued funding for their agencies

AIDS no problem right?u2.lege.net...

Don Harkins Could he be the same guy who passed away from the flu? Maybe a vaccination could have helped.www.proliberty.com...

Are these the same people you put your faith in?

Sorry I only looked into a few of the doctors you feel are so great it is to bad you do not have any studies to present or can't find the time to present them. I don't have much to go on if you can't present them some of there names didn't even show up in searches like the one from the University of Perugia. I find it ironic the one doctor died from the flu if in fact he is the same doctor it certainly looks that way.

Well I certainly wouldn't willingly become patients of such quackery but you may like that sort of thing.

ETA Question are your Italian courts going to be better than your Italian Doctor who doesn't show up in searches are they going to be based on the same standards as your esteemed doctors? Nothing for the US? I am not familiar with Italian courts would it be worth my time to even look? When I make claims I try to back them up guess it is to hard for you to do.

reply to post by Murgatroid


peace, be still
it was only the definition of vaccination
as OP had revealed ignorance in that regard

well do I Know wiki's "worth" regarding Esoterica
and most of the more abstruse subjects discussed herein

hopefully healthwise is acceptable

you know how these baconian ahrimanists are overtaken by Frenzy and foameth at the mouth
when natural news is sourced
baal and mammon forbid human sacrifice be finally abolished along with vivisections and the sublimated sex of
Sticking their "needles" into folk and squirting ...

BEHOLD!!!
NOW THEY SEEK TO PERVERT THE CHILDREN!
www.youtube.com...

Shouldn't everybody have the right to choose what vaccinations they and their children have? Vaccinating kids can have serious side effects, not vaccinating them causes risk of infection. Those who are vaccinated will not be effected by those who dont.

Sometimes vaccinating a kid can cause serious complications, do you then blame the parent?

I see nothing wrong with this. freedom of choice should never be ridiculed.....unless you live in the US of course.

reply to post by Grimpachi


more regarding the "excellent" quackwatch and
Delicensed Stephen Barrett, Quackwatch.com Founder, Loses in Court-Again

AND THIS IS FROM 2005

if you type "quackwatch is" in google...

reply to post by TheMagus


Yes that case was about disallowing a medical doctor to associate with a chiropractor was only one part of a seeming comprehensive multi-phase strategy to eliminate chiropractic. So what is its relevance to the factual info on the Good doctor?

BTW it seems

It was a different Don Harkins who died from the flu. Still trying to find any studies Don Harkins may have made.

ETA

oops actually I think it is the same guy. It seems he wasn't a doctor at all just someone who rallied against immunizations and such.

reply to post by Grimpachi


i made no claims.

my post was directed at the validity of their credentials, which youve already acknowledged.

do you have an MD?

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly


Do I need one?

Seems like a logical fallacy coming on here but go ahead I am interested to see where you are going with this.


BTW it seems they were not all doctors who made those quotes see above post. Considering he died from the flu you may want to rethink your position.

reply to post by Grimpachi


so that makes you....what exactly? a psuedo-medical-analyst?

i think the quoted figures are a bit more qualified to declare a particular science valid or invalid.

but hey its just my opinion, as it was yours

eta: so them being less qualified somehow elevates your own qualification? your the one who declared it psuedo-science. thats quite a profound claim.

reply to post by LurkingRelentlessly


Well I would say I should be considered a little more credible than the guy whose quotes you take into consideration as credible if for no other reason than I am still alive and he died from something like the flu.

Did you even read the article on him? With all those prayers and vitamin water mumbo jumbo he should have been healthy as a horse.


With all seriousness I am just a guy with moderate education who will check sources before jumping on bandwagons I look at cost benefit of each issue the credibility of the information being presented and try to make the best informed decision I can. Something I see very few people doing anymore which IMO is why faith healers such as the one in the OP gather so many followers.

I have come to accept there will always be people like the ones who said flight was meant for birds that going over 60MPH will kill you in those new horseless buggies and think things like vaccines are worse than disease. Eventually I think something like a flu epidemic will sweep the nation/world maybe and those people will pay the price for their lack of insight. I accept it, I think it is a shame but I accept it. You can't fix s___...never mind it's late and I need some sleep. Good luck to you all.

Originally posted by greavsie1971
Those who are vaccinated will not be effected by those who dont.

Like I said back on page three:

The old bogus argument goes that people who choose to get vaccinated are protected, so there should be no reason for them to force vaccinations on anyone else.
But thread after thread after thread the fact has to be retold that like any medical treatment, vaccinations are not 100 percent effective 100 percent of the time***, and "vaccinated" populations can still be at risk from the unvaccinated.
Now having said that yet again, I can guarantee you that in the next vaccination thread, that false argument will be retold yet again. It never dies in the face of facts.

Originally posted by greavsie1971
Shouldn't everybody have the right to choose what vaccinations they and their children have? Vaccinating kids can have serious side effects, not vaccinating them causes risk of infection. Those who are vaccinated will not be effected by those who dont.

Sometimes vaccinating a kid can cause serious complications, do you then blame the parent?

I see nothing wrong with this. freedom of choice should never be ridiculed.....unless you live in the US of course.

In the 60's, Small Pox deaths ranged 1.5 - 2 Million people per year. 10-15 million cases. This is world wide.

No... For the very basic set of the worst bugs? There shouldn't be any choice to the degree that being excluded from public activities like free public school can motivate people.

A flu vaccination? I won't take one myself and don't recommend it. That's my take. The core childhood set that have been about the same for decades and the booster?

Well... The question is simple for the parents. Do you want your kid to live or die hard? (and you really don't have the right to decide that for mine with deadly disease) Some of those illnesses are nasty ones with bad mortality rates. Vaccination as public policy is *ALL* that eradicated Small Pox....from what was once one of the world's worst killers and within the lifetimes of some people around today. Polio has also been a stunning success. Vaccination works...when it's not taking too far and ruined by any number of factors.

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by BigfootNZ
im talking about 2-3 weeks of not being able to sleep since my throat felt like it was lined with coarse sand and i spent most of my time coughing up white phlem, my skin was pimpled so badly ive still got quite a few pitted scars on my face from it),

So, people would rather go through this and have their children go through this instead of getting a simple shot?

I'm a conspiracy nut myself, but come on people.......

Like i said I had it bad, real bad, everyone else I know (including my 3 other brothers) whos had it had it no where near like what I did... Why did I get it so bad, no idea, i was a preemie baby so my immune system has never been great so it could have been a factor, but with a good diet ive managed to build it up to the point where I hardly get 'sick' sick any more.

And just to clarify 'scars' read 1-2 mill diameter depressions about half a mill deep that you can only see if you look closely in the mirror.

Sure for the kid it can be rough, but once its over, its over... given even after vaccination you can still get it latter in life or as a kid i still dont see a problem with a kid getting it. If they die from it they must be damn unhealthy to begin with, which means they had far more pressing issues to deal with than weather they are vaccinated or not.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Well here’s some info on one of your good doctors.

Dr. Robert Mendelsohnwww.quackwatch.com...

100% pure certified shillery...

A delicensed psychiatrist is not always the best source of information.

"During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug Administration (FDA)." consciouschoiceblog.blogspot.com...

It is common knowledge that Stephen Barrett has been Officially Declared by the US Court System, in a PUBLISHED Appeals Court Decision (NCAHF v King Bio), to be "Biased, and unworthy of credibility."

What that statement means, in layman's terms, simply, is that it is common knowledge that OFFICIALLY - NOTHING HE SAYS CAN BE LEGALLY RELIED UPON.

Records show that Barrett never achieved any success in the medical profession. His claim to being a "retired Psychiatrist" is laughable. He is, in fact, a "failed Psychiatrist," and a "failed MD."

The Psychiatric profession rejected Barrett years ago, for Barrett could NOT pass the examinations necessary to become "Board Certified." Which, is no doubt why Barrett was, throughout his career, relegated to lower level "part time" positions. It is obvious, that, after one humiliation after another, in 1993 Barrett simply gave up his medical aspirations, turned in his MD license, and retreated, in bitterness and frustration, to his basement.

Barrett, we know, along with his website, was named, among other things, in a racketeering (RICO) case in Federal Court in Colorado. He's also being sued for his nefarious activities in Ontario, Canada. Source

This site has no credibility. Quackwatch has been involved in a number of lawsuits and apparently Stephen Barrett had lost one or more lawsuits where the judge made him pay the opposing attorneys fees... Yet Quackbuster still maintains it is run from donations... More like donations from big pharma.

This is a heavily biased website attacking anyone who is investigating alternative medicine. The owners are also on the board of directors for other organisations that receive direct funding from Big Pharma and Chemical companies. They also promote the use of Sodium Fluoride in drinking water, even though the Nazis used it in their concentration camps to keep prisoners docile.

"Dr" Barrett was also exposed in a lawsuit where he had to admit he had no certificate to give Psychiatric advice even though he had done so to unsuspecting people. He has also launched 40 lawsuits against what he calls ' quacks ' and he has not won a single case. www.sitejabber.com...

psst... quackwatch is quackery.. pass it on!

Just as anyone who is seeking information about alternative treatments may stumble upon your "quackwatch" site. If they continue their search they can also find what just a quack you are.

"At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam. "

"This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases. Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no formal legal training."

"The most damning testimony before the jury, under the intense cross-examination by Negrete, was that Barrett had filed similar defamation lawsuits against almost 40 people across the country within the past few years and had not won one single one at trial."

Oh and this bit too... "Stephen Barrett is now delicensed (he voluntarily gave up his Pennsylvania medical license, the last of four medical licenses he once held, in the early 1990’s) and the Vice President of the NCAHF. He also operates at least 20 websites affiliated with his main site, Quackwatch.com. The website and its affiliate web sites are seemingly designed to spread deceitful, untruthful and malicious propaganda about chiropractic and other non-conventional health practices; similar to the way the CCHI did under the auspices of the AMA. NCAHF is also involved in similar activities. In addition, Barrett and his groups also frequently consult for major media magazines, television, radio, governmental agencies such as the FBI, FTC and FDA and even the AMA." The universe will bring you what is yours.... it's called KARMA.

consciouschoiceblog.blogspot.com...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

RUN by Copeland Ministries...... RUN by, because, its a BUSINESS. One that pays no taxes. One that takes in more than it puts out and makes certain people wealthy. And what does the bible say about the wealthy? Easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a wealthy man to get in to heaven. A business in the business if indoctrination, brain washing, creating foolish sheep..... Some of that Ol' Time Religion!

To those who are constantly citing sources such as Quackwatch etc...

There is a MASSIVE credibility issue here.

It has since been proven that Stephen Barrett is a shill for the medical and pharmaceutical cartels.

It is a propaganda enterprise, one part crackpot, two parts evil. It's sole purpose is to discredit, and suppress, in an "anything goes" attack mode, what is wrongfully named "Alternative Medicine." It has declared war on reality. The conspirators are acting in the interests of, and are being paid, directly and indirectly, by the "conventional" medical-industrial complex.

Dr Victor Herbert, Stephen Barrett and William Jarvis are on the Scientific Board of the American Council on Science and Health. Founded in 1978, this organisation is funded solely by the large pharmaceutical and chemical companies, the AMA and industry supported Foundations.

www.whale.to...

Do not, for even a second, think that the US "Quackbuster" operation, a plot to stop anyone, and everyone, from changing the broken US health care system, is run, or even maintained, by delicensed MD Stephen Barrett out of his condo in North Carolina. It would be foolish to assume that this bitter, nasty, old man, who stumbles through life, tripping from one professional failure to another, is running a cleverly set up plot. He's just the "front man." The one they want you to focus on. He's ill. He'll die soon, and someone else will take his place as the frontispiece.

So, who really is running it? And why? The Quackbuster operation is involved in “info wars” on the internet. It is a public relations "black-ops," run out of a New York misinformation agency.

The plot is pervasive, well funded, and well run. The New York agency's intent is to not just defame, but to make that defamation, through organization, appear at the top of the search engines like google. They have organized to manipulate the online encyclopedia Wikipedia information about health care. They also, through people trained in disruption, troll Usenet (google) discussion groups, badmouthing advanced health care, regularly. I emphasize that all of this attack is “organized”… and can be traced back to the same people – about five, or six, of them.

www.encognitive.com...

People who don't believe in vaccinating should try living in the third world.. Then come back and say that vaccines are evil.

It's not something that should be an individual choice.. It should be mandatory, not just for ones own child but for protection of the heard.