Calif. poitician pulls son from class over transgender law

If this state of affairs would have been the case when I was in school, I would have said, "HEY!!! I AM TRANSGENDER!!!" (even though I am not), just to get the opportunity to go shower with all that fine...

Cannot imagine this will not be the case today...

I surely would like to know what everyone thinks is more important in school...learning ABC's, 1,2,3's?

Or this stupid crap...

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Seriously though, how many children are really going to want to express their transgender in school? Most kids go through a lot of changes not only in their bodies but also in their thought processes before they work out who and what they want to be. Rarely does that happen before the age of 16-18, at which point they are leaving school anyway.

My own daughter had a number of boyfriends before she fully understood her sexuality and as such the small percentage of children who do feel that they identify with a different gender are probably happy to merge into the norm during their school days...school can be a horrible place for kids at times and more often than not, just getting through the school day is a trauma.

Therefore, whilst for example a girl who identifies as being a boy may well find that her peers support her transformation to a he, as was noted in a previous post and everything is fine and dandy, it is probably far more likely that the child may be subjected to horrific bullying by both males and females, which is not going to be good for their self esteem and if it is only one child in the whole school, why should all of the other pupils be put into a situation they feel awkward with, regardless of the rights or wrongs of their feelings, in order to accommodate the needs of one child.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

I'm surprised we don't still have pillories We don't do we? I don't get downtown as often as I used to :-)

It's called internet forums and comment sections now.

Originally posted by Sharingan
reply to post by seabag

 

Tell her father it’s legal in CA

You just told me but unfortunately for you, Texas doesnt allow this crap

I hear ya. I was being facetious.

I live in N. Texas.

reply to post by destination now


You know, I don't know the answer to that question - how many? There have been more than a few stories in the news recently about children that are quite young and claiming (emphatically) that they are not what everyone says they are - or what they were born. How can we argue with that?

Kids know more than they're allowed to know - if you ask me

We know now that kids who are gay realize pretty early on that they're gay

I understand that my point of view on all this might be minority point of view right now. The only thing that makes any sense to me is to allow the individual to be who and what they choose to be

It's all well and good to claim kids go through changes, that they don't really know anything, that they're too young to understand things like gender identity. However, I think most people, if they're honest, realize this is a lie we like to perpetuate because we don't want to deal with the consequences that come with true freedom - and allowing the individual to be truly free

How much damage is done by telling a child they don't know what they're talking about - and that they have to be what you want them to be?

I know you and I (and many other people) aren't going to agree right here, right now. This is something that's going to come up more and more often in the near future

Science is telling us the same things our kids are - that gender isn't something that's always this - or always that. Should culture have the right to force the issue?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

I'm trying to restrict myself to essay-free replies from now on ( we shall see) - I'm afraid it's either this - or a wall of unreadable blathering

You mean you can't control yourself? Hell, you'd probably qualify for disability payment in CA if you told them about your condition.

seabag - what do you think it means when someone says they're transgender?

Really?

Well lets see...that would be someone whose gender identity doesn't conform with their actual gender.

Am I right??

What did I win??

[edit to add] I feel cheated now!! You just didn't want to respond to me! I saw lengthy responses to others. I see how it is!!

reply to post by seabag


And so it goes -

You really are a dirty fighter - aren't you?

:-)

Let me know when you can play nice - I promise I'll be more chatty

(also - you weren't too wrong about the willpower thing)

reply to post by seabag


Lol, I know.. I was just messin with ya.
Im from N. Texas too (Dallas) but I live in S. Texas now.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by destination now

 

You know - I don't know the answer to that question - how many? There have been more than a few stories in the news recently about children who are quite young that are claiming (emphatically) that they are not what everyone says they are - or what they were born. How can you argue with that?

Kids know more than they're allowed to know - if you ask me

We know now that kids who are gay know pretty early on that they're gay

I realize that my point of view on all this might be minority point of view right now - but, the only thing that makes any sense to me is to allow the individual to be who and what they choose to be

It's all well and good to claim kids go through changes, that they don't really know anything - that they're too young to understand things like gender identity - but I think most people, if they're honest - realize this is a lie we like to perpetuate because we don't want to deal with the consequences that come with true freedom - and allowing the individual to truly be free

How much damage is done in the name of telling a child they don't know what they're talking about - and that they have to be what you want them to be?

I know you and I (and many other people) aren't going to agree right here - right now. But, this is something that's going to come up more and more often in the near future.

Science is telling us the same things our kids are - that gender isn't something that's always this - or always that. Should culture have the right to force the issue?

Weirdly enough, my daughter and I were talking about this the other day, and quite frankly the pc agenda (in conjunction with the internet) has played a big part. My daughter was annoyed by some of the rubbish that her peers post online regarding their sexuality, her pet hate is the misunderstanding of the term pansexual, along with the need of so many people to be "a special snowflake" her words, not mine and their use of different sexual preferences and gender identity to stand out from the crowd. So she asked me about what sort of things we talked about when I was growing up in the 80's and asked if we often talked about all of the different elements of sexuality when I was a teen. I was able to categorically state that no, we didn't, yes we might have talked about who we fancied or whatever, but graphic details of a sexual nature were not really discussed, not because we were prudes or anything like that, far from it, it was quite simply that we didn't feel comfortable talking about intimate things with our peers.

In terms of my daughter's school and college friends, probably about 40% of them currently identify as being something other than heterosexual and the gender they were born with, back in my day I remember one boy who made an (ill-judged) advance to another boy, and remember, this was the era of "coming out" Boy George, Freddie Mercury etc, so it wasn't like there were the same taboos about homosexuality that there had been previously. I attended a school reunion a few years ago and out of the 150 or so people that attended, only one guy was homosexual and there were no lesbians at all.

My daughter reckons that out of that 40% currently identifying as something other than hetero, probably only about 5% will actually still be the same when they're in their 20's as she thinks that a lot of it is to do with the present culture of acceptance of different sexual attitudes

Sorry had to edit there, pressed enter before I was finished

reply to post by destination now

In terms of my daughter's school and college friends, probably about 40% of them currently identify as being something other than heterosexual and the gender they were born with, back in my day I remember one boy who made an (ill-judged) advance to another boy, and remember, this was the era of "coming out" Boy George, Freddie Mercury etc, so it wasn't like there were the same taboos about homosexuality that there had been previously. I attended a school reunion a few years ago and out of the 150 or so people that attended, only one guy was homosexual and there were no lesbians at all.

I'm pretty sure I know what you're trying to say - but just in case I'm wrong - what's the point of this paragraph?

You think the numbers of your youth were accurate - and the current numbers are a trend?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Yes, and it's not me who thinks that, it's my 19 yr old daughter

reply to post by destination now


Is she old enough to really understand this sort of thing? Tell me, at what point did she become old enough to have an informed opinion?

Is her opinion any more valid than yours - or mine?

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

I understand that my point of view on all this might be minority point of view right now. The only thing that makes any sense to me is to allow the individual to be who and what they choose to be

So as the parent of a 15 year old daughter, you wouldn't have any problem with a 15 year old supposed transgender BOY showering with your daughter at school after a basketball game (or whatever). No reservations about your daughter seeing ding-dongs? No wonder so many kids are screwed up. Many parents don't even let their kids be kids.

reply to post by destination now


Yes, it is absolutely trendy to be different now.. Its cool to date a different race, its cool to claim to be a lesbian or usually its bi-sexual, that way they can play both fields.
My 15 year old went through the same crap for about 6 months, she claimed to be "bi" I didnt say a word about it, I knew it was a phase and I didnt really care.
The phase (experiment) is over and now she is content with her boyfriend.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by destination now

 

Is she old enough to really understand this sort of thing? Tell me, at what point did she become old enough to have an informed opinion?

Is her opinion any more valid than yours - or mine?

:-)

Well she's old enough to have decided upon her sexuality, and I reckon her opinion is just as valid based on her experience and knowledge of her demographic, and although she did believe she might be gay whilst she was still in school, she decided to try and fit in first and date boys etc to see if she was really sure about what she wanted and of course didn't want to be bullied by the 60% who were not gay, so she didn't come out until she left school

reply to post by Sharingan


I totally agree and this is exactly what my daughter was talking about as well. My daughter is now sure that she is gay and obviously I am fine with that, but it amazes me the numbers of teens who claim, exactly what you say, that they are bi..best of both worlds..

reply to post by seabag

I was younger than 15 when I saw my first ding dong

:-)

(I survived)

I don't have kids seabag - and you might be tempted to use that against me in this argument. I hope you'll understand that if I had kids, this would be my honest opinion:

I grew up in en environment that has naturally led me to the opinions I have now. I don't have a lot of issues with nudity, or sex, or gender, mostly because they weren't a big deal to my folks. My mom was a little more uptight than my dad - but I gotta say, she was fairly open minded and let me decide how I felt about things like this. My dad was a naturalist, and he didn't really see any reason to make sex something dirty. I learned about sex pretty much like kids who grow up on a farm learn about sex - from nature. My folks had several gay friends - it was no big deal. The whole trans-gender thing wasn't really on the radar yet, but I've always assumed that we are born how we're born, so not really that big a deal to me

So, I don't have kids of my own, but the only thing I can say is I would explain these things to my kids as best I could and let them go on to form their own opinions

I'm not religious, so, of course - I don't have some of those same issues. Maybe you think I don't understand a point of view that's formed by belief, but I absolutely do. I also understand that this is not something all people are willing to accept. I'm going to go as far as saying - I'm not sure that they have to accept it - I'm not one to demand that people see the world the same way I do

Having said all that... :-)

The world is changing - and what we know now is different from what we knew in the past

These subjects are going to be more and more in the public spotlight and issues are going to be worked out by hook or by crook. With time we'll start treating individuals as individuals - and not sinners or freaks of nature

I could go on, but I can already feel you starting to yawn - I still have 2890 characters left - if you want more - just let me know

:-)

reply to post by destination now

Well she's old enough to have decided upon her sexuality, and I reckon her opinion is just as valid based on her experience and knowledge of her demographic, and although she did believe she might be gay whilst she was still in school, she decided to try and fit in first and date boys etc to see if she was really sure about what she wanted and of course didn't want to be bullied by the 60% who were not gay, so she didn't come out until she left school

Really? See - I wish I'd known that before - if you'd already said that and I somehow missed it - I apologize

You know why I think this is interesting? You sorta implied how she was so over it - with the whole unique snowflake thing and all the extra stuff surrounding all this

She grew up in a time and place where she has the freedom to come out - and still be annoyed by it all :-)

See it or don't - but, wow. Just - wow

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

The world is changing - and what we know now is different from what we knew in the past

These subjects are going to be more and more in the public spotlight and issues are going to be worked out by hook or by crook. With time we'll start treating individuals as individuals - and not sinners or freaks of nature

I have no problem with people living life the way they see fit. However....we're talking about kids at school. School is supposed to be about education. School is not a social experiment or a social engineering center for progressives. If 2% of the population is transgender and is uncomfortable showering then they don't have to shower. The 98% who are not transgender should not be forced to capitulate. Sexual matters shouldn't be forced on kids in this manner nor should they be taught in public schools.

Doesn't the LGBT community always say "stay out of my bedroom"? Why then do they keep trying to make us look into their bedroom??

I could go on, but I can already feel you starting to yawn - I still have 2890 characters left - if you want more - just let me know

No yawning...I appreciate the response.

reply to post by seabag

School is not a social experiment or a social engineering center for progressives.

Is this how you really see this - it's a political thing? I guess I can see how you might get that impression - but It's not a social experiment. This isn't about choice, or trying to be outrageous, or pushing out the corners of society's envelope - or trying to force this on people in a game of one-up-manship

We're beginning to recognize that things we always assumed were a certain way and took for granted might not be true after all

Sexual matters shouldn't be forced on kids in this manner nor should they be taught in public schools.

It's not being taught - it's not indoctrination. Kids are what they are - and if it's only two percent of the kids that are transgendered, so what? All kids should be treated equally. If this was your kid - do you think you might see this differently? Or, do you think this is something that is completely made up - a non-issue?

Doesn't the LGBT community always say "stay out of my bedroom"? Why then do they keep trying to make us look into their bedroom??

This is about kids - and gender. It's not about sex. I'm not sure I understand how come those two things always mean the same thing to some people

I'm not transgendered - this isn't my reality. So, I can't speak with any real authority when it comes to the details in all this. But you should try and realize - a boy who believes he is really a girl is not interested in flashing your daughter - this just isn't going to be the kind of problem you think it is