Calif. poitician pulls son from class over transgender law

reply to post by Sharingan

Hey, my daughters 15. You can shower with her if you can get passed her well armed father.

Tell her father it’s legal in CA…let me know what he thinks about that! He should learn to be compassionate about my transgender needs.

Seriously though, I expect lawsuits to be forthcoming soon. After the first lawsuit arises, the judge should issue an injunction preventing this from taking place.

I hope so!

reply to post by seabag

Tell her father it’s legal in CA

You just told me but unfortunately for you, Texas doesnt allow this crap

Originally posted by Sharingan
reply to post by seabag

 

Tell her father it’s legal in CA

You just told me but unfortunately for you, Texas doesnt allow this crap

Just be careful. The weirdos out here talk about Texas almost as much NYC.
I hear they're heading out that way in droves, and that they're
nesting in Austin and Dallas.

Pay attention to local elections!

Originally posted by Sharingan
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

Requires some pondering though I believe.

No it doesnt, its no where near the same, its a ridiculous comparison.
Girls are at ease around each other, even when their naked.
My 15 year old daughter had friends over all the time for swim parties, they would all change into swimsuits in the same room together and when they finished swimming, they would all rinse off in the shower together, it was no big deal.
Hell, even grown men do the same thing, were you ever in the military? In boot camp, everyone showers together, what do you think would happen if they threw a female in there, that "thought' she was a male.. It would cause problems.
Its a freaking bad idea all the way around, stupid effing california morons.

Just have to say, I totally disagree with you that girls are at ease being naked around each other. I certainly never was. I really tried to hide myself in the locker room, and dressed quickly and kept a towel around me in the shower room until I absolutely had to drop it. Just because you see some girls changing in front of each other it does not mean they are at all comfortable with it, it just means they feel the pressure to, or be made fun of for being shy. Of course some girls have no issues with nakedness, and those are typically the ones that would scoff at you for any shyness you might have. Peer pressure at it's finest.

I live in CA and think this is ridiculous. Kids with man parts should use the mens room and vice versa. If they have gender issues that they can't cope with in the appropriate restroom, they need to speak with the school and get some type of pass, or be allowed to use the office bathroom or something.

Life is not easy. We need to stop coddling.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Sharingan
reply to post by Thill

 

You wanna know what I find even more unbelievable than this stupid law actually being passed?
The ignorant brainwashed individuals that are so caught up in the PC scam that they are actually ok
with this.
You know, the Mexicans claim California anyway, I think we should just give it to them.

yeah.... good thing Mexicans are not in Texas, or have ever claimed it to be their own land. you do know that people in California don't give a damn what you people in Texas think

As i understand america - Everyone pretty much ignores what texas thinks. Wouldnt you after 8 years of george bush?

Ignores not so much. Sit and giggle in wide eyed wonder watching Texans try and think, definitely.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


The only time we Texans get truly perplexed is when we are trying to figure out how someone of the same species can be as ignorant as the progressive fools from places like California,most of the North East US and apparently someone from Ohio as well

reply to post by desert


It's not about accepting their gender issues though, I don't care what gender someone decides to be, my daughter is gay and as such, I accept people as they are.

However, using changing rooms, communal showers and toilets is a completely different matter. Many teenagers are very self aware and have enough issues dealing with their peers of the same gender, let alone feeling exposed in the company of someone of the opposite gender, no matter what that person identifies themselves with.

You talk about compassion and understanding, what about compassion and understanding for the rest of the kids, whose right to segregated changing areas and toilets is being taken away in order to cater to the needs of one kid.

I remember when California was such a progressive state, with most of the rich in the nation owning property, once California surplus used to help other states with loans and even the federal government.

Now it seems that the more it get taken over by illegal immigrants the more moronic and stupid the politicians has become.

Sorry to say this but beside NY California has become another one of those states that you can only call "stupid" with mentally challenged politicians.

As a parent I would be protesting such moronic law.

reply to post by seabag

What is that supposed to mean?

:-)

No drive-by posting or zingers allowed.

I'm trying to restrict myself to essay-free replies from now on ( we shall see) - I'm afraid it's either this - or a wall of unreadable blathering

If you don’t have a problem with it then who here has a young daughter I can shower with??

Well - that's just so wrong - and I'm surprised that you don't understand the difference. But, since I don't get to write my essay - I'll let it go

It’s OK…I’m transgender....at least that's the story I'm sticking with for now.

seabag - what do you think it means when someone says they're transgender?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


So would you be quite happy for your children to be placed in a potentially uncomfortable position, where they would have to get undressed, shower etc in the presence of a child of another gender?

And I used the word child deliberately because that's what they all are when they are still in school..children and in my opinion, whilst I agree that staff should take an unbiased point of view and be able to provide support to all of their pupils, no matter what their issues are, I really do think that school is no place for sexual issues. Our children are becoming more and more sexualised at an earlier age...what the heck happened to being a kid?

Quite apart from the main topic, of which I really have no opinion, it's quite funny to watch Americans now hating on their own kind. Well done US Politicians, you managed to get at least two states hating each other.

reply to post by PW229


Divide and Conquer, coming to a theater near you!

reply to post by destination now

So would you be quite happy for your children to be placed in a potentially uncomfortable position, where they would have to get undressed, shower etc in the presence of a child of another gender?

Why should it be an uncomfortable situation? How we feel about nudity is a cultural thing. Is nudity always a sexual thing?

Scandinavian Attitudes to Nudity

Scandinavians are unusually cool about nudity in certain well-defined situations. The Finnish sauna is a well-known example. Within Swedish families, nudity is also commonplace, while many other nations feel that allowing your kids to see you starkers is tantamount to sexual molestation.

Why Japanese people are comfortable with nakedness

Another reason why Japanese are accustomed to being naked is Japan’s love of bathing. It is common for children to bathe with parents in the home. Moreover, everyone gets naked at an onsen or hot spring. Although most etiquette books recommend a small towel to cover the necessities, anyone that has really been to an onsen knows that this rarely happens. Men let it hang out as if it was a competition while older women in their separate adjacent hot spring are giving the younger crowd a clear view of what they have to look forward to when they age. Bathing and walking from bath to bath is done with little shame. While sexuality is not encouraged in most Western religions, Japan’s native Shinto religion is more open-minded. Shinto religion stresses the importance of kami or deities in nature. Like it or not, we were each born because someone did the nasty. It’s completely natural. This is not considered gross, but is celebrated at Shinto shrines or festivals with large phallic objects. Furthermore, Shinto and Buddhism, both practiced and often blended in Japanese beliefs, do not consider most forms of sexuality to be sacrilegious.

Nudity

Though the wearing of clothes is the social norm in most cultures, some cultures, groups and individuals are more relaxed about nudity, though attitudes often depend on context. On the other hand, some people feel uncomfortable in the presence of any nudity, and the presence of a nude person in a public place can give rise to controversy, irrespective of the attitude of the person who is nude. Many people have strong views on nudity, which to them can involve issues and standards of modesty, decency and morality. Some people have a psychological aversion to nudity, called gymnophobia. Many people regard nudity to be inherently sexual and erotic.

And I used the word child deliberately because that's what they all are when they are still in school..children and in my opinion, whilst I agree that staff should take an unbiased point of view and be able to provide support to all of their pupils, no matter what their issues are, I really do think that school is no place for sexual issues.

School may be no place for sexual issues - but this is a gender issue. Since you choose to focus on children, I have to point out - they take their cues from us. If it's a big deal for you it will be a big deal to them

We're talking about kids for crying out loud. And, to be fair - we are just now starting to deal with these issues in a public way. It's going to take time to sort all this out. In order for it to be sorted out, we have to first agree on how we feel about transgendered children. If you think it's nonsense - you're going to have a problem with this

If you think it's natural, then I'd think you'd be more in favor of what is best for the child - not what works best for some people's comfort levels

This isn't the Victorian age - we're not Puritans - we don't wear burkas here in the West. Why not? The way we look at sexuality, gender - clothes - all of it changes. Where we draw the lines seems a little arbitrary sometimes - at least to me

Children take their cues from us. If they learn very early on that this is a non issue - it's going to be a non-issue

Our children are becoming more and more sexualised at an earlier age...what the heck happened to being a kid?

How does letting a transgendered child use the restroom or locker room that fits the gender they identify with sexualize anyone?

I guarantee you - if kids are going to be sexually naughty (whatever that means) it's going to happen no matter which designated area they've been assigned

reply to post by Sharingan


Locker rooms aren't like you imagine in your homoerotic daydreams.

You should educate yourself.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I think when we associate sex and nudity with shame something goes wonky in the brain. Religions and cultures with strict modesty rules often have the highest rate of predators. Maybe even just shaming what's natural is what screws us all up to whatever degree. Ugh, isn't it amazing to note the people that cry the hardest about these issues are the same that think they're libertarians? Liberty to conform to 50's social values/taboos is more like it.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Sharingan

 

Locker rooms aren't like you imagine in your homoerotic daydreams.

You should educate yourself.

And how in the hell do you know what my daydreams are?
I have educated myself and I am well aware what locker rooms/ showers are like in Middle and Highschools.
Maybe its you that needs educating.

reply to post by Kali74


Yes - seriously - to all of that :-)

For some reason our culture sees sex and gender issues as the fast lanes to hell

And shame is still a spectator sport - I'm surprised we don't still have pillories

We don't do we? I don't get downtown as often as I used to

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Well you've answered your own question about why it can be uncomfortable. Firstly we are not talking about Scandinavian countries or Japan and both of your sources do state about nudity being in context even in cultures where nudity is acceptable.

And it is very difficult to separate gender and sexuality in less mature minds, and whilst I am aware of the difference between identifying gender as opposed to sexuality, children don't often have the capacity to do this. Having a daughter myself, I am aware of the different stages they go through in terms of learning about themselves and their bodies and whilst very young children often have no issues with nudity, as they get older and particularly when they go through puberty, their attitudes do change and whilst culture does play a role in this, e.g. people don't walk around naked in public, anywhere in the world as a normal everyday thing, they do learn that and often go through very self-conscious states, where they just don't want to get undressed in front of anyone.

And of course in most western cultures and particularly in the US where nudity and sexuality go hand in hand, in the music and film industries, you can't really be surprised that many children will equate nudity in front of the opposite sex as being sexual and simply by changing the law and insisting that children (and their parents) should suddenly accept that because a boy feels more like a girl in terms of their thought processes, that it's okay for them to shower with the girls.

So whilst I'm all for equality and respecting the rights of everyone, the school environment is not an acceptable venue in my opinion

reply to post by destination now


For sure, teens can be painfully self-conscious in those situations, though how much suffering is from the consequence of living in a culture where one's body is never perfect as is or is something to be ashamed of ?

Apparently the students at the school I worked at had no problem with a transgender student using the bathroom she thought appropriate. This actually surprised me, because the area I live in is no hotbed of "liberalism", quite the opposite. Seems students, at least here, nowadays aren't bothered by what bothered their parents or grandparents; either that or their attitude is it's no one else's business.

As far as communal dressing rooms and showers, the students here for years don't shower, or if they do, most cover up with a towel. Also, students don't usually take off underwear to change into gym clothes. At no time are students stark naked usually.

Something else I found interesting was when gay students held hands, or gave a quick hug or kiss (something hetero couples were allowed to do), no student blinked an eye. Again, despite all the public outcry over the years, students here weren't bothered.

I really feel blessed to have worked in this community. It's not perfect, but folks here can surprise you at times. They just want to be left alone to earn a living and worship as they feel, and personal business is just that, personal.

reply to post by destination now

Well you've answered your own question about why it can be uncomfortable. Firstly we are not talking about Scandinavian countries or Japan and both of your sources do state about nudity being in context even in cultures where nudity is acceptable.

It was rhetorical :-) I actually do understand why nudity makes people uncomfortable

My point would be - we can change how we feel about certain things - our feelings are not set in stone

And, as far as I know- Thou shalt not be without your knickers in public was never carved in stone :-)

(But, I'm no expert)

We have to have a reason to change how we think - and we have to want to change. I'm guessing for some people - that is just not going to happen

So whilst I'm all for equality and respecting the rights of everyone, the school environment is not an acceptable venue in my opinion

So, the rights of individual children shouldn't be upheld in school? If not in school - where? When?

You understand - what we're talking about here is segregation

I can feel the eye-rolls coming... But, seriously - what do you think this is about if not denying rights to some individuals while honoring the wishes and maintaining the comfort level of others

I know this sort of thing just drives people nuts - but, in the end - it's going to be a civil rights issue

Transgendered children are people with rights - you can't have separate facilities for them just because they bother you