Evolution backed up by Hoaxes and Desperate Lies

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by instigatah
you seem rather sure of yourself robin, care to mention specifically a few of those 'loads' of prophecies that didnt come to pass?

In the Bible Jesus claims on quite a few occasions that the world would end/kingdom of God would come still within the life time of the people who were listening. Have a look for example here..

I posted a reply cause you irritated me so much with your biblically illiterate junk. This is not a religion thread. Make one yourself and I might take it on and show the error of what you just presented.

Stick to the OP please.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Now you've piqued my interest. You are opposed to discussing religion in this thread, yet determined to debunk evolution. What is your proposed alternative to evolution, if not religion?

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
Scientists are desperate to prove it and when they could not find it in the fossil records, they made them and lied.

More like people are ambitious and desperate for recognition and this can lead to scientific malpractice. Anyway, it's generally accepted that early Christians faked parts of Testimonium Flavianum (as I recall). From this, following OP's logic, we must conclude that Jesus never existed?

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
I believe Darwin believed his theory. I believe he took an excellent observation of natural selection to produce a stronger stock and then got mixed up into believing all creatures come from common ancestry.

After humans learned to sequence DNA, common ancestry became an undeniable fact. Well there's one alternative explanation: life on Earth was designed so that it seems 100% certain that all things living share a common ancestor. Apply Occam's razor..

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

There is a war going on and many understand different aspects of it, but when examined in total the only logical explanation is that there is an absolute full on assault through the new age movement and science to undermine Christianity via fantastic tales and hoaxes which they seek to hide via their compliant media whores. When an anthropological hoax is revealed it becomes news for a week and then it’s forgotten. Later, that same idea is still taught to children in schools to support the theory of evolution. The natural outcome of that theory is to create disbelief in young children.

I agree, to a point but... in order to reach this spot, one must also believe that those forwarding such a view also know that they are wrong and are doing so with a specific goal and with specific motivation.

When my kids were growing up, we were all fans of Bill Nye (The Science Guy). He has a talent for bringing science in at a level where kids hold court... and doing so in terms they easily understand. Over the many years we were all a fan, he taught science in such a way as to make it not only appealing, but a challenge for when they finally outgrew his show.

But then, not to long ago, he crossed the line and became a danger to those of us who believe that science and faith can co-exist. In other words, he spun about and plunged a knife into the backs of all of us who embraced this concept.

Why? It seemed entirely illogical because first, there was no need for it. My kids grew up attending church and also doing quite well in science. They always understood that once they reached a certain age... they may be called upon to make certain choices in belief... but, even so, always understanding that there was more than one choice.

My personal view is that creation and evolution share a common ground that is purposely ignored from both extremist camps. Unfortunately, I also now know that someone I once respected, belongs to one of those...

We either re-learn how to co-exist or someday, a new inquisition may well arise and this time, the insquisitors will not be the same as before.

Originally posted by robin22391
reply to post by instigatah

 

you shouldn't read rhetoric literally, i'm sure they teach people that in school. Besides i addressed the issue of dishonesty etc in a later post and i admit i should have added the obvious in a post script so as not to annoy those with Aspergers.

As for the prophecies that didn't happen, you could have googled them, but here you are, i got them from google but i read all this ages ago so this will make it quicker. This snippet is from rationalwiki. There must be about 20 or so and i welcome you to attempt to refute them, or you could put me on your ignore list just like every good piece of evidence for evolution is by the creationists.

3.1 Virgin birth
3.2 The messiah will be born in Bethlehem
3.3 Jesus will be a Nazarene
3.4 Jesus will be called out of Egypt
3.5 Jesus will be pierced
3.6 The suffering servant
3.7 The great disappointment

I know this is a hot topic, but not the purpose of my OP. I actually did respond then edited it because I was breaking my own request to stick to the OP. I know the evolutionist crowd's heads are spinning because I presented facts.

The facts I presented were proof of all the major hoaxes used to prop up their theory. These were then used to indoctrinate generations of young curious minds. How different would our science be today and our attitudes had the hoaxes not been used. The damage was done and they act like it's no big deal.

More and more children today are haters of all things religion, especially Christianity which I do believe was the goal all along with these liars. I am not saying that Darwin set out to undermine the foundations of truth. He observed adaptation which surely exists. He simply made a leap of theory which he could not back up and the desperate "scientists" did with hoaxes!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Do you usually let other people decide your opinions for you? I'm guessing that's what just happened, seeing as how you didn't provide any reasons for agreeing with the OP, or really anything besides, "Yeah, you go man!" Oh, and I don't know if you are aware, but the standard for posting on ATS forums is that you need to CONTRIBUTE, not just scratch someone's back.

Please keep that in mind.

edit on 13-8-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

When are you going to take these sorts of replies to task?

useless comments

Seriously the god theory is dead, it doesn't work and it never will.

doesn't it seem blatantly obvious that we evolved in some form or another over the billions of years this planet has existed rather then simply placed by a god?

especially when you look at the wide variety of flora and fauna.

the variety between primates and our resemblances to them. seriously. the god theory is crap.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


There is enough evidence in support of natural selection and other types of evolution to counteract the idea that it is a "hoax."

For example, active cases of speciation.

I encourage you to review the following study--obviously this is not the only source, just go check out anything on peppered moths, or find the original study. Or I can list a hundred more studies on evolution by natural selection



Also, theories of evolution often do not attempt to explain what instigated the "life" spark. In my opinion, this is most likely explained by the organic chemistry/molecular biology gap. It's really quite a different field.

Also, if you don't believe that humans are primates and exhibit close resemblances to our primate relatives... if you truly believe that other great apes were put on this planet by a "creator" to "trick" us, I encourage you to check out the following video. If you do not see the similarities with your own behaviors, I would like to simply say that you are blind.




If you should have any questions, feel free to drop me a line and I can talk about this with you in further detail.

Oh, and P.S., Charles Darwin is only one of many, many, many evolutionary biologists who have conducted a multitude of species- and population-based studies. Again, I am more than willing to talk over a few of these studies with you, and you can point out any flaws that you may find in their methods, and we can chat about them.

Originally posted by gotya
*raises hand*

I have a question.

Why do people who believe in god find it necessary to convince non believers of its existance?

You never hear of people who believe in the theory of evoloution knocking on doors trying to convince the religious folk.

Why the hell do you care what I believe?

Just getting started reading this thread but, I'd like to take time to answer this. If someone comes knocking on your door, you are perfectly capable of saying "NO thank you" and shutting the door in their faces. People that believe in evolution do not NEED to knock on doors. Underage children are required BY law to go to school. If I do not have the money to send my child to private school, they MUST then go where? Public school, where evolution is taught. Far more insidious than knocking on a door.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Thus the theory is not a hoax, it is a theory. Scientists are desperate to prove it and when they could not find it in the fossil records, they made them and lied.

So you're using a few example of fossil hoaxes to prove that fossils in general are all hoaxes?

No, find a true missing link. They don't exist. My example of the bird wing is perfect. You would think if it took millions of years for the thumb digit to grow to become the top of the wing that there should be 1 or 2 intermediary examples. There are none. And don't show me a smaller bird. Show a digit growing an inch, then one showing it growing another inch, then show the other digits elongating to the wing form. THEY DON'T EXIST!

Should we look at the lies and deceptions pulled by theists to try and prove the existence of a deity? How many times as the Catholic church lied?

Stop going off topic please. You want so desperately to not deal with the original post (OP). I could have easily responded to get you off of this religion issue with, "Have you stopped beating your wife?" I didn't because that is just a comment to distract. You don't seem to understand what a "TOPIC" is. Please stop this behavior.

How many times has a theist been revealed to be a fraud? How many times has a theist pushed and pushed, only to be discovered as a hypocrite of the grossest degree when they are caught violating the edicts of their own agenda?

There you go again. Off topic.

Perhaps I'm taking this in the wrong direction.

You damn well know you are. Stop it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here, other than evolution is apparently a very poor theory and...something else should be exalted in its place.

It's not my fault you are so confused by facts. I have stated very clearly several times what my goal is. It is to prove that liars created fake fossils to back up the theory of evolution. I believe I have done that. I also believe science should follow the facts no matter where they lead and not push an agenda which seems to be to prove God does not exist, hence the book "The God delusion" which was nicely refuted with the "The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions" by Berlinski, a secular Jew.

And before you go siting all these pages that hate Berlinski, I will put quotes up about that book.

Review "Berlinski knows his science and wields his rapier deftly. He makes great sport with his opponents, and his readers will surely enjoy it." --Tom Bethell, bestselling author of "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science "

"A powerful riposte to atheist mockery and cocksure science, and to the sort of philosophy that surrenders to them. David Berlinski proceeds reasonably and calmly to challenge recent scientific theorizing and to expose the unreason from which it presumes to criticize religion."

--Harvey Mansfield Professor of Government, Harvard University "Berlinski's book is everything desirable: it is idiomatic, profound, brilliantly polemical, amusing, and of course vastly learned. I congratulate him."

--William F. Buckley Jr. "With high style and light-hearted disdain, David Berlinski deflates the intellectual pretensions of the scientific atheist crowd. Maybe they can recite the Periodic Table by heart, but the secular Berlinski shows that this doesn't get them very far in reasoning about much weightier matters."

--Michael J. Behe, Professor of Biological Sciences, Lehigh University, bestselling author of "Darwin's Black Box "and "The Edge of Evolution" "David Berlinski plus any topic equals an extraordinary book."

--Chicago Tribune "From the Hardcover edition."

If you want a thread discussing the options of how life began please create one. I have my thread, go make your own and stop distracting from this one.

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

One day the most famous flying dinosaur – Archaeopteryx – is a direct ancestor of all modern birds; the next day it belongs to a different dinosaur group, suggesting that feathered flight evolved twice. Practically every new fossil and study forces a rethink.

Source

The so called experts are exhibiting "bird brained" behavior.

-------------------

What is the true status of Archaeopteryx? Was it a transitional form between reptiles and birds? First, the general nature of the evidence: The sudden appearance, fully formed, of all the complex invertebrates (snails, clams, jellyfish, sponges, worms, sea urchins, brachiopods, trilobites, etc.) without a trace of ancestors, and the sudden appearance, fully formed, of every major kind of fish (supposedly the first vertebrates) without a trace of ancestors, proves beyond reasonable doubt that evolution has not occurred. Quarrels about disputable cases such as Archaeopteryx are really pointless. Furthermore, there are three other basically different types of flying creatures—flying insects, flying reptiles (now extinct), and flying mammals (bats). It would be strange, indeed, even incomprehensible, that millions of years of evolution of these three basically different types of flying creatures, each involving the remarkable transition of a land animal into a flying animal, would have failed to produce large numbers of transitional forms.

Source

The other side of the coin, which imo is more coherent.

What you can't seem to grasp is that the archaeopteryx was, one day, classified as "the" transitional fossil and that nowadays it's classified as "part" of the transitional families. Whay is it so difficult to grasp simple english? And it's amazing that you provided a criationist page, completely unreviewed by the scientific community, as proof. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. 100 years ago biologists would say that fossil X is this, nowadays they'll just say that it is part of something. You know why? Because scientific tools have evolved, as well as scientific knowledge and analisys. Stick to the bible.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Thumbs in birds and intermediates?

You don't need fossil examples. I mean, these re-emerged, clearly. And I do think that there is enough fossil evidence present to justify the argument without this. But here is something for you to look at with your own eyes.



Bam.

Originally posted by Khaleesi

Originally posted by gotya
*raises hand*

I have a question.

Why do people who believe in god find it necessary to convince non believers of its existance?

You never hear of people who believe in the theory of evoloution knocking on doors trying to convince the religious folk.

Why the hell do you care what I believe?

Just getting started reading this thread but, I'd like to take time to answer this. If someone comes knocking on your door, you are perfectly capable of saying "NO thank you" and shutting the door in their faces. People that believe in evolution do not NEED to knock on doors. Underage children are required BY law to go to school. If I do not have the money to send my child to private school, they MUST then go where? Public school, where evolution is taught. Far more insidious than knocking on a door.

Because kids need to know the latest supported theories, not fairytales. It's a must that children learn evolution, big bang theory and, most importantly, scientific analisys. Why, you may ask? Because they'll learn what is a theory, what are arguments that support theories and how they can be disproofed with other, more coherent arguments. Learning the bible and criationism teaches kids a lie, limits their brain to one thing. Just watch this thread, it's ridiculous someone believing that the bible is source of knowledge and then saying that evolution is a hoax.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Thus the theory is not a hoax, it is a theory. Scientists are desperate to prove it and when they could not find it in the fossil records, they made them and lied.

So you're using a few example of fossil hoaxes to prove that fossils in general are all hoaxes?

No, find a true missing link. They don't exist. My example of the bird wing is perfect. You would think if it took millions of years for the thumb digit to grow to become the top of the wing that there should be 1 or 2 intermediary examples. There are none. And don't show me a smaller bird. Show a digit growing an inch, then one showing it growing another inch, then show the other digits elongating to the wing form. THEY DON'T EXIST!

Because it's impossible to show that. Giving teeth examples again, we won't loose our sharpened canines one day to the other. But if you take, for example, 100 canines from 100 consecutive generations you'll get a pretty good idea that they are gradually becoming blunter. It's impossible to have 100 consecutive fossils. Stop with logical fallacies please, you're making a fool out of yourself.

And btw, take in consideration that there is standard deviation. We are not all of the same height, for example.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

I have stated very clearly several times what my goal is. It is to prove that liars created fake fossils to back up the theory of evolution.

Here are a couple of crackers from your side of the fence.

Kent Hovind

On September 13, 2002, Hovind was charged for failure to observe county zoning regulations with respect to Dinosaur Adventure Land.[34] Despite arguments that the owners did not need a permit due to the nature of the building, the park was found in violation of local regulations

More here about tax fraud etc Kent Hovind

Ian Juby professor of what/were?

Here are some true facts:

The vast majority of Americans don't understand science
How Much Do Americans Know About Science?

Evolution is widely misunderstood
Is Evolution Widely Misunderstood?

There is a notable difference between the opinion of scientists and that of the general public in the United States. A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time – 87% say evolution is due to natural processes, such as natural selection. The dominant position among scientists – that living things have evolved due to natural processes – is shared by only about third (32%) of the public."[42]

...

There are many scientific and scholarly organizations from around the world that have issued statements in support of the theory of evolution.[36][37][38][39] The American Association for the Advancement of Science, the world's largest general scientific society with more than 130,000 members and over 262 affiliated societies and academies of science including over 10 million individuals, has made several statements and issued several press releases in support of evolution.[22] The prestigious United States National Academy of Sciences, which provides science advice to the nation, has published several books supporting evolution and criticising creationism and intelligent design.[40][41]

en.wikipedia.org...

And, thus, many of these people do not possess even a basic scientific understanding.


But on the bright side for you,

Science Could Deliver the Comforts of Religion

Originally posted by JameSimon

Originally posted by TinfoilTP

One day the most famous flying dinosaur – Archaeopteryx – is a direct ancestor of all modern birds; the next day it belongs to a different dinosaur group, suggesting that feathered flight evolved twice. Practically every new fossil and study forces a rethink.

Source

The so called experts are exhibiting "bird brained" behavior.

-------------------

What is the true status of Archaeopteryx? Was it a transitional form between reptiles and birds? First, the general nature of the evidence: The sudden appearance, fully formed, of all the complex invertebrates (snails, clams, jellyfish, sponges, worms, sea urchins, brachiopods, trilobites, etc.) without a trace of ancestors, and the sudden appearance, fully formed, of every major kind of fish (supposedly the first vertebrates) without a trace of ancestors, proves beyond reasonable doubt that evolution has not occurred. Quarrels about disputable cases such as Archaeopteryx are really pointless. Furthermore, there are three other basically different types of flying creatures—flying insects, flying reptiles (now extinct), and flying mammals (bats). It would be strange, indeed, even incomprehensible, that millions of years of evolution of these three basically different types of flying creatures, each involving the remarkable transition of a land animal into a flying animal, would have failed to produce large numbers of transitional forms.

Source

The other side of the coin, which imo is more coherent.

What you can't seem to grasp is that the archaeopteryx was, one day, classified as "the" transitional fossil and that nowadays it's classified as "part" of the transitional families. Whay is it so difficult to grasp simple english? And it's amazing that you provided a criationist page, completely unreviewed by the scientific community, as proof. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. 100 years ago biologists would say that fossil X is this, nowadays they'll just say that it is part of something. You know why? Because scientific tools have evolved, as well as scientific knowledge and analisys. Stick to the bible.

Guess you never learned what the phrase "other side of the coin" means that I posted.
You don't even want to see or have quoted what the other side says to refute your evolution? Your response was like that of a coiling snake at the mere sight of opposition.


In reality it was classified as a dino then a bird then a dino now a bird again.
Whatever it is, it appears in the fossil record among dinosaurs with fully developed wing and feathers, the end of your so called evolution. It needs to have its own missing link to growing them forelimbs into highly specialized elongated fingers of a wing along with the highly specialized transition from scales to feathers, lighter bones, different brain size to accommodate flight etc.

The highly touted Archaeopteryx as a missing link in fact needs its own missing link, lots of them.

They found an even older bird fossil in China that has a more developed chest bone for flight muscles than this Archaeopteryx, so to follow the evolution chain of logic, Archaeopteryx devolved hahahaha. The findings in the field totally dispute evolution.

So why the hell can't we just view evolution as the way God chose to create the Earth and it's inhabitants. Evolution is a theory. Scientists continue to study, test, and "evolve" the theory, whereas creationists do no further research into proving their theory.

By the way, I do believe in God, but probably not your God. The entire Old Testament is bunk. I have no problem with the New Testament.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Thumbs in birds and intermediates?

You don't need fossil examples. I mean, these re-emerged, clearly. And I do think that there is enough fossil evidence present to justify the argument without this. But here is something for you to look at with your own eyes.

Bam.

edit on 8/13/2013 by ravenshadow13 because: (no reason given)

no BAM genious. Where is the thumb growing to become the wing? BAM

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

I have stated very clearly several times what my goal is. It is to prove that liars created fake fossils to back up the theory of evolution.

Here are a couple of crackers from your side of the fence.

Kent Hovind

On September 13, 2002, Hovind was charged for failure to observe county zoning regulations with respect to Dinosaur Adventure Land.[34] Despite arguments that the owners did not need a permit due to the nature of the building, the park was found in violation of local regulations

More here about tax fraud etc Kent Hovind

Ian Juby professor of what/were?

edit on 13-8-2013 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)

This thread is NOT about creationists or biblically illiterate Christians. Your post offers nothing to THIS discussion. Completely off topic.