Lets End the Fantasy of "being employed" or Having a Career in America

It's a double edge sword.

Companies do save, Temp Agencies do make money and the temps most likely do get screwed over.

I wonder why that is?

I mean, could it be all the f'ed up Unions causing the trouble in the first place? In my honest opinion, they played a very large role.

There's several times I mentioned this in my posts, that my company frequently attend one of the biggest electronic trade shows in the world. This particular show, utilizes all Union workers, no third party and absolutely no independent contractors.

It's either you use their Union workers or you're not attending the trade show.

So if you attend, you'd have to pay their ridiculously high prices... that .. protects the Blue Collars. :rolls eyes:

That translates to, something like, moving 1 pallet worth of trade show materials from point A to point B, within the same premises, is going to cost you around $5,000.

That's right, you heard me right. Having one dude, driving a forklift, grabbing one 48 x 40 skid from warehouse to trade show space, cost around $5G.

Do you think this is fair? Of course, the Blue Collar guys will certainly get what they're asking rate is but what about competition? There is none. It's completely monopolized and businesses have no choice but to cough up that large chunk of change for the increasing #ty labor and performance attitude.

Having 2 electricians, wiring up our booth, cost around $3,800. They bill $99/hour on weekdays and $199/hr on weekends.

When the electricians come, they started chatting, joking around, spending time asking about who your family members are, what your dog's name is, where you live, etc. etc. Basically, doing everything but the work you require. This, in turn, gets them longer hours and a higher pay.

Where does the small to medium sized companies complaint to? They'd have to just suck it up and pay, otherwise don't show up at the convention, simple as that.

So when you get an opportunity for business to cut back, you bet your ass they'll do it.

The moral of the story is "Karma". It's not like the businesses are not getting screwed by the Union, so in turn, they have to screw someone else.... Whatever goes around comes around.

reply to post by truthseeker84


Unions contribute to this.

without unions employers wouldn't need temp agencies to pull their shennenigans.

Originally posted by Brotherman
I would love to hear what a Temp Agency HR persons inside unbiased opinion about what they do and how they feel about getting paid off of someone elses labor if there is one reading this thread please chime in, I promise I wont go honey badger on ya

They would probably say after being let go from their old company because they didn't want to keep an HR person anymore. They believe it is better than being on the unemployment... collecting money taken out of your taxes when you do your temp work.

Snf.

Corporations are killing America. Also we are being culturally destroyed by rap music and bad movies, we don't have any real artistic talent anymore because you have to be socailly accepted before you talent is considered. Its all going downhill.

Originally posted by onequestion
Also we are being culturally destroyed by rap music

That's funny, I blame new country. Well, it's not all bad. There's Follow Your Arrow.

There's always been bad media. As far as rap goes, what about Sabotage and Guerrilla Radio? Those are staples in the conspiracy theorist world.

What I've observed are parents either not disciplining their children, or just ignoring and abusing their little "earned income credit" generators.

reply to post by Brotherman


USA's social system is broken. Unfortunately a lot of other countries have imitated USA's social system. We are looking at disaster at our doorstep.

The following things are necessary for an economic system to work properly:

1. Retirement age - Every person should retire (even politicians) at the age of 60. This is needed to give opportunity to young people and youthful energy to a putrefied social system. Even family owned businesses have the system of children taking over when they are ready.

2. Laws and Taxation - must be simplified greatly, specially the taxation code. Indirect taxes like excise and sales tax should be abolished. The taxes on inheritance of property should be removed. The high taxation is killing the industry. The industry can generate money and support itself only if Government can stop sucking its blood.

3. Small industries and small businesses should be encouraged. The focus of the government should be on self-employment rather than people getting into "safe" government sector jobs.

4. Insurance fraud - the insurance business is nothing but a big fraud. Specially medical insurance. It should be abolished immediately. Medical insurance has driven up medical costs immensely, as it is a hotbed of fraud and corruption. The government can provide subsidized medical care to people that can help poorer sections of the society.

5. The pension funds should be privately owned and voluntary. The government must stop "social security tax" immediately. The government misuses whatever money it lays hands on. It is necessary that the government does not have excessive funds.

6. The government should encourage production of consumer goods within the country as this sector is a massive employment generator.

Originally posted by GargIndia
The following things are necessary for an economic system to work properly:

1. Retirement age - Every person should retire (even politicians) at the age of 60. This is needed to give opportunity to young people and youthful energy to a putrefied social system. Even family owned businesses have the system of children taking over when they are ready.

Interesting considering point 3 of your plan calls for the Government to encourage "self-employment"....yet you want Government to force when that "self-employment" ends?

2. Laws and Taxation - must be simplified greatly, specially the taxation code. Indirect taxes like excise and sales tax should be abolished. The taxes on inheritance of property should be removed. The high taxation is killing the industry. The industry can generate money and support itself only if Government can stop sucking its blood.

Agreed save excise taxes.

3. Small industries and small businesses should be encouraged. The focus of the government should be on self-employment rather than people getting into "safe" government sector jobs.

See my comments to your first point. Just doesn't add up what you are saying. I agree to this point, but you cannot have both.

4. Insurance fraud - the insurance business is nothing but a big fraud. Specially medical insurance. It should be abolished immediately. Medical insurance has driven up medical costs immensely, as it is a hotbed of fraud and corruption. The government can provide subsidized medical care to people that can help poorer sections of the society.

This requires a thread of its own. I will further contemplate this.

5. The pension funds should be privately owned and voluntary. The government must stop "social security tax" immediately. The government misuses whatever money it lays hands on. It is necessary that the government does not have excessive funds.

Absolutely. Money in should equal money out in terms of the Government. There should never be a deficit nor a surplus.

6. The government should encourage production of consumer goods within the country as this sector is a massive employment generator.

Major changes in our laws would have to be made to make this happen. The Federal Government has nearly chocked industry out of the country for the past 30+ years though.

Originally posted by sulaw
I wanted to bring this to this particular forum. Most have read my initial response to this thread on page 1. Today, a day that I will never forget has brought something entirely different. A hinkiling of HOPE~

My father in-law and well that whole side of family are all Union 399 Stationary Engineers Downtown Chicago. They've all been trying to get me into the classes (Networking and smooooozing) I didn't make the cut the first time around. I was invited to a seminar, took the class

and waited. Mind you I have a very lucrative resume' to say the least. Been a lot of places and worked a lot of jobs, all successfully prior to this I HAVE NO COLLEGE EXPERIANCE some minor classes but I hate schooling, it's for the birds~. All the while I was waiting, I've been pulling in the side work (Flooring, all aplications) and working a job that provides insurance and a decent wage, I'm grateful because it's more than most are making in this economy.

Today I logged in and found that I have been placed in my first class: Electricity for Engineers I ~

I've never been happier. I DON"T HAVE THE MONEY for this class! I WILL MAKE THE MONEY! I WILL SUCCEED! I WILL NOT FAIL! I will become a Engineer and be placed into a building downtown and solidify a income to support my family and I WILL SEND MY DAUGHTER TO COLLEGE! I will give her a better tomorrow if it costs me today.

FIAT Currency, Temp Agencies, everything in this forum that has been discussed. There is always a way! Network, build, strive for that better ending on a daily basis! In the end if you don't, you just might regret not taking that leap off the edge. Better to fail and say you tried than to turn tail and walk away never trying at all.

We need more CAN DO ATTITUDES!!! Regardless of education, regardless of place in the world. Someone asks you if you can do something??? OF COARSE YOU CAN! APPLY YOURSELF! In areas you are weak, learn skills that will benefit you! BE THE FRIGGIN BALL! As bad as the economy is, there are Careers. You can succeed. DON'T GIVE IN! DO NOT LET TPTB WIN! Fight the good fight! I Believed in myself when nobody else would, I worked the network and MADE it HAPPEN!

I'm no rocket scientist, hell I'm not even that smart (Common Sense goes a long way though, heheh~) but if I can apply myself on a daily basis while the world tries to bring me down, SO CAN EVERYONE ELSE!~ That's the god damn truth~

so, as we see. and you can't deny..

it is more important to "know somebody and be a lesser candidate" than it is to be the best.

this is what you admit.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


are you for real?

can you provide a little insight?

reply to post by HanzHenry


Oilfield, or oilfield support.

Electricians can make really good money. CDL truckers, too (day travel, home at night).

I bet if you reach out to the Texas Workforce Network in Midland, Odessa, Big Spring, Andrews.....you could get a start on details. Another route: just start calling drilling companies in the area. Tell them you are looking for work. If you can pay your own relocation I would bet they would jump all over it. But I wouldn't be surprised is some would give you some help.

Like I said...housing is short. So you will have to work around that.

Our local McDonalds has a sign up that they are paying up to $14/hr. And with our cost of living being so low (a quickly disappearing artifact of the oil bust years of the 80's and 90's), that is a pretty darned good wage (it is right on the edge of local median income on all the government reports).

I can hear what your saying, even though I don't live in the states.

Sad thing is, most of the jobs that are out there are S*** in general, due do it being cheap labor. Since they will get someone that can work harder for less, which is why all the state and Canadian manufacture plants are moving to Mexico, and why china has been accelerating economically. I used to work for temp agencies after I had finished high school, and did this for two years with out ever having a permanent position due to it being the recession at the time.

I look at my parent generations, or any generation that was before mid 1980's. And they all tell to me to work hard, blah, blah, education, etc. I think to myself...

Dam, your generation had it so easy.

Gas was like 10 cents, job were always available, plus you didn't have to have an education, and if your lucky enough, you didn't need any to land a high position, just the right person. Some people I know have university degrees, and are still looking for a job.

I should add 2 things:

we are on the Cline Shale. The expected yield will happen over 10-15 years, with expected heavy use of the natural gas reserves. It is a fracture drilling endeavor, which adds some danger to the work

They (the drilling companies) don't play. Not even a little. Call in once, you are likely to be fired.

But there is no shortage of 20 year old kids driving jacked up, brand new, $40k trucks.

reply to post by Specimen


It can still take a good head on your shoulders, and a few lucky breaks. Its how I have done it in life.

I work for a union. UPS, and they know how to make a profit and pay their employees well. Why all the union bashing? It wasn't the unions fault the auto industry made cars people didn't want to buy. Foreign auto makers made better cars that people bought instead. UPS is unionized and they have no financial problems. Other unionized company's fail due to poor management by the company's.

I work for a union. UPS, and they know how to make a profit and pay their employees well. You dont even have to have a degree to move up. Just work hard and become full time. Many drivers make 100 grand a year. Why all the union bashing? It wasn't the unions fault the auto industry made cars people didn't want to buy. Foreign auto makers made better cars that people bought instead. UPS is unionized and they have no financial problems. Other unionized company's fail due to poor management by the company's.

reply to post by jaynx


The unions reduce decision making efficiency and innovation. Japanese have perfected the art of continuous improvement which is the big reason for their industrial success. This is being imitated by other countries.

You are right that unions are not the main reason of failure of the auto industry, but the bosses who just could not see the winds of change. However unions created a cost structure in America that was not competitive with the world. So it was a contributing factor.

Originally posted by Specimen
I can hear what your saying, even though I don't live in the states.

Sad thing is, most of the jobs that are out there are S*** in general, due do it being cheap labor. Since they will get someone that can work harder for less, which is why all the state and Canadian manufacture plants are moving to Mexico, and why china has been accelerating economically. I used to work for temp agencies after I had finished high school, and did this for two years with out ever having a permanent position due to it being the recession at the time.

I look at my parent generations, or any generation that was before mid 1980's. And they all tell to me to work hard, blah, blah, education, etc. I think to myself...

Dam, your generation had it so easy.

Gas was like 10 cents, job were always available, plus you didn't have to have an education, and if your lucky enough, you didn't need any to land a high position, just the right person. Some people I know have university degrees, and are still looking for a job.

edit on 7-8-2013 by Specimen because: (no reason given)

It is all due to high taxation and high military spending. Your government ate your lunch while you were looking away.

The government has so many rules and taxes that small businesses die due to compliance. Only big business survives as they can hire armies of accountants and lawyers. This system give rise to big frauds and lack of jobs.

The taxation system is a very big contributor to the failure of the economy. People do not realize this.

The same income is being taxed several times. This gives rise to an inflated cost structure that makes the end product very expensive.

As this system is uncompetitive, it is held together by military force. Even more wasteful spending.

The system of value added tax has helped to reduce this repetitive taxation somewhat but only a little.

The correct way of taxation is to put a tax on output, rather than income. Raw materials should never be taxed.

Similarly employee's salaries should never be taxed as the income of the enterprise (where this person worked) has already been taxed.

Vedas define the taxation system which is very easy to apply and is perfectly foolproof.

I'll write a theoretical (simplistic story) about business in America and how our government is killing it.

Economics 101 states that the more business expenses you have, the higher the cost of goods and services. This means that if your business expenses for the day are $100, and you sell products for $1, you'll need to sell 100 of those items to break even (this is dumbing it down for ease of explanation). Now say, the government comes by and says that it wants you to give $100 a day per employee that works there as a new tax. Now your business has to sell twice as much or double the price of what you're selling. You decided that the customer had to pay for it since you won't be making enough to sustain your business, so you raise the price by twice the amount. So everything costs $2 and your customers are appalled by this price hike and you say it's the government but then they blame you because you're the one selling it.

Now your business is struggling so you start doing something else to make it work and you figure it out somehow. Your business is booming and now you have 9 people working for the company. The government says that once you get 10 people working for you, you'll have to pay for their medical care every month. Your business which was once again striving can't grow any bigger because the moment it reaches 10 employees, your business expenses will go up tremendously. The only way to do this is to increase the price of what your selling. So now that you've been selling your goods for a good $2.50, it goes up to $4.00 and you get less customers but you can still grow but barely enough to sustain it because sooner or later, someone will be outsourcing or automating this process in such a way that they can lower their margin and expenses.

You think life is rough but then you get a surprise inspection. The mirror in your bathroom isn't at the correct elevation and you get fined $4000 for it, plus the cost of elevating it since another regulation states that you can't do it without a licensed contractor. You don't have that capital because you were doing your best to survive between the thin-margin of these large corporations and the strict regulations that need to be followed. To make matters worse, the minimum wage has been increased and so has your property taxes. Your business is doomed.

Your shop is now closed, and it's thanks to the constant tax increase, strict phony regulations, and razor-thin margins that the big corporations can make because they already beat the time-frame in the system.

Have you gone to McDonalds lately? The prices of a big mac is somewhere around $7 now. That's more than what it cost at airports just a few years ago. People keep wanting more and more benefits but don't want to pay for them and quite frankly there is no way for us to pay for them since we have to have jobs to pay for it and with these constant increase in taxes and regulations we're left with less jobs than before. Businesses have no choice but to move overseas to survive just like someone has to move out of town to find a job sometimes.

The ONLY way to improve the job market in the US is to abolish practically everything that has been happening in the government for the past 10 years or so, swap congress / president, and ensure that EVERYONE pays into the system one way or another. That means flat-taxing instead of income taxing. There are theoretical ways to change the economic system but that would mean to abandon everything we've earned so far and start anew with a completely different system. I personally believe that capitalism is a great invention but only when it's not abused by politicians.

reply to post by Em2013


Thank you for taking the time to type that up for us, I found it useful. I gave you a star thanks again for that!

Do you think the days of career in America are numbered with the current situation?

I agree so many things are going to have to change to go back to a more responsible type of life in America especially in the job sector, Do you find it ironic that when something is brought up people automatically want to divide into one side or another and instead of talk about an issue we tend to start fighting about it anyways? I do I think even on ATS with this discussion is very telling as to why we cannot all band together in real life and really do something about it.