Lets End the Fantasy of "being employed" or Having a Career in America

Originally posted by Brotherman
this discussion is very telling as to why we cannot all band together in real life and really do something about it.

Capitalism is competition. It's about looking out for #1. It plays to our survival instinct. We can't get together because we won't rise above our base. Our intellect is also natural. We can figure out how to band together for survival.

I just want to point out something to all the posters blasting the generation that came of age in the 1970s (before my own time, btw):

The 1970s saw even HIGHER unemployment than the current problem. And the HIGHEST interest rates in a century: 25 % !


To act like "baby boomers" had it easy is ridiculous. One could just as easily argue that they had it harder than you do.

Plus, a lot of them ended up voting for Reagan (twice), because trickle down was a lot more effective than the current policy of if it moves, tax it; if it doesn't, subsidize it.

I came into the workforce in the recession of 1992, the most recent previous recession. With 200,000 soldiers coming home from Gulf War I, you couldn't get an interview in this town without an honorable service record.

I dug ditches and cleaned out stables.

I showed up every day. on time. Sober. And within 2 years I was in management. Then I changed career fields and got some benefits. I haven't been out of work for more than 4 weeks in the last 20 years. And I've changed career fields 2 more times in the process.

I currently am occasionally involved in hiring. 75% of applicants are not fit to work in the job they apply for. They cannot write copy fit for a press release, and cannot do basic math. And they actually ask, in an initial interview,

"How soon can I expect a raise and a promotion?"

My answer: "As soon as we can trust you to manifest reliability, problem-solving, and a good work ethic over the short to medium term."

Many of them roll their eyes and laugh at that point. Seriously.


What's in it for me? Nothing, if you even have to ask. That's what.

reply to post by tovenar


Recession of 1992? I don't know what field you work in, but in construction, there was nothing near a recession in 1992. Plenty of work if you were willing to drive within a 2 hour radius. If you were willing to work 8-10 hours a day, and drive you would be OK.

Originally posted by TKDRL
Plenty of work if you were willing to drive within a 2 hour radius. If you were willing to work 8-10 hours a day, and drive you would be OK.

It's best to not have a family, or at least one you're attached to if you're going to maximize you chance for employment. I'm all for less babies being born anyway. The world is full of fanatics, and the population needs thinning. However, I do like the ladies. I understand women much better than I do men. The optimal situation in today's job market would be to rent cheaply and travel with a mate if you have one.

If I didn't have a family, I'd probably be a carny.

reply to post by TKDRL


There was a recession in 1991 actually. It was over by the november election of 1992; but a lot of people thought the election had cost the incumbent president his job.

I did try to get a job via pipefitter's in Atlanta; but they weren't taking anyone who wasn't a legacy. But like I said. I quickly got myself some entry-level work and never looked back.

I'm getting tired of hearing "These 20-somethings refuse to work!" or "These 20-somethings are entitled brats that refuse to do manual labor!"

Maybe you just know a bunch of jackasses, but I know that myself, my brother, and most of my friends have no problems with manual labor, especially since those jobs pay better than the jobs we have. For two months in March and April I worked skinning, gutting and filleting Paddlefish or $10.00 an hour, and was damned happy to get it. I wish it was a year-round job just because they give regular raises, and it's not an incredibly hard job as long as you don't mind getting covered in blood and fish guts every day and staying on your feet, but unfortunately it's only open during Paddlefish season.

Maybe it's a city thing, but the 20-somethings around here are happy with whatever job they can get for the most part. Sure, there are a few lazy ones who don't want to work, but they're a small minority.

Originally posted by mekhanics
reply to post by gentledissident

 

I made $185.82 yesterday

Media.net

edit on 7-8-2013 by mekhanics because: (no reason given)

I installed Ghostery and Adblock...

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by Em2013

 

Thank you for taking the time to type that up for us, I found it useful. I gave you a star thanks again for that!

Do you think the days of career in America are numbered with the current situation?

I agree so many things are going to have to change to go back to a more responsible type of life in America especially in the job sector, Do you find it ironic that when something is brought up people automatically want to divide into one side or another and instead of talk about an issue we tend to start fighting about it anyways? I do I think even on ATS with this discussion is very telling as to why we cannot all band together in real life and really do something about it.

I don't think our days are numbered unless we don't do something about it. Right now the US is on a decline and in many ways has already turned into a third-world nation. We've got nearly $20tn in debt, 60-65% of Americans are on some kind of tax-benefit such as the retired, disabled, unemployed etc... This includes also those that are unemployed but aren't qualified for any unemployment benefits. With the amount of people that do work, that's a whopping $150k/person in debt or so. Otherwise it's a little less than $50k per person.

I'm all for government programs to aide future generations so long as there's a reasonable ROI on it. If there's no return on investment, then the program shouldn't exist. They also mismanage money or drag one group of funds and drops it into something else that they need. It's as if you're paying for roads but you get signs put up on a partially built road. The expenditure of our tax dollars is a lot more than what we can put into the government, and by asking for more tax dollars, then businesses can't flourish as they should and either die or outsource/insource.

Immigration should be tight just like our borders because we need to farm our own quality PHD students that are worth more than a dime per hour, otherwise we'll end up just like any other third world country where jobs are limited but people are willing to work for less and less and the products and services suffer as a consequence. There's so much to fix from the problems that went on for the current and past few presidents that it would just be simpler to clean the slate and start over from a decade or two ago but move in a different direction. The government can keep on adding taxes but the more taxes are added, the less jobs will be available and with less jobs means less people to pain into taxes. Now that there's a tax on rain water, you know they are out of control for sure.

reply to post by RageAgainstFascism


Adblock is NSA's Tool. Have fun

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
I might get flamed for this but...You can still get a small piece of the proverbial 'pie' in America. You have to be willing to put in the time to get where you want to go though. No one is going to hand anything to you anymore. A few smart decisions and a little financial planning go a long way. People want everything. Maybe instead of buying that new pair of Oakleys or Nikes people could save their money and go to a trade school. BAM you get through a trade school you have something you can do for life that will at least get you into lower middle class status. Then turn around and double down on a degree from any reputable college and then you could get into middle to upper middle class. Sure you have to give some of your life away and keep your head in the books. Big effing deal? Your quality of life will go up exponentially after you're done.

Source: That's my life. Done on my own dime. With every second of spare time available.

MOTF!

It's hilarious that you believe this. I and many others I know aren't demanding the world. We want the rent on our 100 sqft apartments to not be 60% of our income, we want to be paid enough that we can afford food and not goto charity dinners at churches several times a week to save money, we want to be able to afford hot water for showers or have air conditioners in the summer. A few dollars for recreation would be nice too. That life I just mentioned? Totally unaffordable for me, I happen to have 3 college degrees and I'm lucky enough to have a job. Of course I work 60 hours a week for $3/hour.

Society says work hard, goto school, learn a useful skill, and you'll be rewarded. Well, I work hard, I've gone to school, and I have quite a few skills (essentially anything computer related, hardware, software, operating, programming, art, or anything else you can name, I can do). I'm still waiting for that job.

Originally posted by RageAgainstFascism

Originally posted by mekhanics
reply to post by gentledissident

 

I made $185.82 yesterday

Media.net

edit on 7-8-2013 by mekhanics because: (no reason given)

I installed Ghostery and Adblock...

You can make money on the internet, but it's a job and is hard work, anyone who tells you it's easy is lying, and you're at the mercy of Google which is not a good place to be.

It is what I do, most of my business comes from web design & SEO for clients, they find me through the net, but I originally started online with my own site that earned me money selling 2 ebooks I'd written.

I decided last November that this is where I should be putting my efforts, so I built 2 sites, and by May had got them to the point where combined they were bringing in £2000 - £2500 per month (about $3100 - $3900).

Then Google flipped the switch and updated their algorithm and both sites lost over 90% of their traffic, and consequently over 90% of their earnings.

This is how it is trying to earn a living online, it can all be gone overnight. It is not for the feint of heart, and you need to be able to pick yourself up, dust yourself down, and start all over again.

It is very tough.

reply to post by Brotherman


Very good points, Brotherman, whichi needed to be raised.

It's the same situation here in the UK. Although the agencies don't get as large a share of the wage, you are still considered a temporary member of staff with none of the securities that a permanent employee gets. I've had friends who were given pomising jobs through agencies, the company had said they would keep anyone on who was doing their job, and then 4 weeks later got rid of all the temps and replaced them. Some of my friends have the best work ethics of people I've ever met and are hard workers.

This whole temp agency situation is getting out of hand, but they make so much money and save the actual hiring companies so much trouble that it's going to be hard to get rid of it.

reply to post by Power_Semi


I know what you mean, my website was just starting to pay for itself when google changed the algorythm, now, just like life in general, it once again got harder to stay afloat and the big company wins yet again at the peons expense.
I am losing money.

I still keep my site going because I want to.

Other than that, I blame NAFTA, I remember that time, everyone went to Toronto for easy employement, then NAFTA killed the jobs there.
I also blame central banks for bleeding us dry, while we sweat and groan and they sit in their comfy chairs and play with numbers to screw us with.
And of course government, made out of comfy, well to do, out of touch, large pension quick people who work for themselves and not you.

Originally posted by Answer

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Answer

 

Maybe it has nothing to do with a sense of "deserving". I can frame, sheetrock, roof, floor, tile..... I have the ability to do lots of things. I do not have the stomach for many things within my ability. I could sell morons things they do not need easily, but I will not lower myself to that. I have been told I could sell a bag of ice to an eskimo, but I could not live with myself for doing it. I will not rip people off, I will not use my fellow brothers and sisters as stepping stones....

Maybe that is the problem. I care too much about people I do not know. Maybe that is the problem of all those these days that can not "succeed". The cut throat mentality just doesn't jive with us.

I didn't say you should do sales. My point is that you can find a job if you keep an open mind.

I don't rip anyone off. I help people find solutions to their needs and wants. Just because I profit from that doesn't make the process a bad one.

I can totally appreciate that comment. I worked in sales for around 4 years; first in mobile phones and then in cars. Not once did I trick someone in to buying something they didn't need. As you probably know, but for the benefit of everyone else here, it's easy to strike a balance and find something the customer actually wants, can afford, and makes you money.

I enjoyed sales, but the hours killed me.

It's a tough spot for the 20 something age group professionally.
When i started in IT everything was easier because it was still essentially a developing infrastructure. Here I am 18 years later and I look and wonder how are kids going to make it.

I'm lucky where I work, people come from all over the world to apply here in some shape or another. We just finished our summer intern schedule and even that sort of reflects what younger people have to go through I think.
We had something around 40-50 interns across the various IT groups. All of them were A level candidates, all of them dressed very professionally every day, all of them spoke with the highest acuity and all of them could probably move into a full time job and hold their own. That's not every person in their 20s though , not a bad thing, so that means anyone that is not firing on all cylinders is even more hard pressed I think.

I think that geography plays a part in job ops also. I have an online friend that complains he can't find a job but isn't willing to move away from the small town he grew up in. That's a tough spot for sure but in the ultra competitive job market you have be flexible and willing to go where the jobs are. The scary part is even moving to a major city or job site you are not guaranteed anything.

I feel bad for the 20 something, and anyone after, job hunters.

The problem is that those that don't want a career and work, elected a President that gave everyone that "benefit". Now the few that have a good career and jobs must pay for those that would rather sit on their couch, and watch tv shows of those "suckers" who do work. Until the supposed silent majority of those who do wish to have a career get off their duffs and vote this set of politicians out, nothing will change. Once amnesty is granted to illegals, you can forget it, as this country will be nothing more than a third world country. At some point, you have to pay the piper and once the blood is completely drained out of the ambitious few left, the rich politicians will leave the resulting wasteland, and go to some tropical island that they bought, and enjoy their wealth that they drained from this country.
Welcome to "Hope and Change". I hope you still have some change left in your pocket.

Originally posted by dave_welch
I'm getting tired of hearing "These 20-somethings refuse to work!" or "These 20-somethings are entitled brats that refuse to do manual labor!"

-- snipped --

Generalities are always guaranteed to (unintentionally) hurt someone's feelings. I can only speak to the remark I made. I lost the first job I had with my former employer because of a big layoff. We made kitchen cabinets in kit form. I'm sure you've seen what I'm talking about in various stores. (Union plant btw)

When I got called back, they put me "doing doors" on the line. Doors went in last & they DID NOT shut down the line just for me. That meant I had to read the label in the flap of the box, manage to carry everything needed while inspecting for color, style, mistakes, damage to the finish and correct boring (drilling). Each cabinet had a set way the doors (& other parts I was responsible for) went into the box. I also had to move my empty door cart out to the aisle and pull the next one up.

Out of curiosity, I bought a pedometer. Before the degenerative disk disease set in with my lumbar and neck I was 6' 1" tall. I figure programming my stride at 23" was being pretty conservative. I was shocked to find that an average 8 hour day was never less than 13 miles!!! (While inspecting and packing as I went)

In this particular case, I can tell you for a fact that when I was still running the staple machine before the lay-off, the twenty-somethings they hired (and everyone else for that matter) never made it more than a month, at most.

We had some 11 hours days when I walked 18 miles.

I was still doing the job when they closed the plant and moved it to Canada.

I'm not disparaging twenty somethings. In all honesty, I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't been 55 and needed the work. Btw, my base pay for doing all that was $11.78 an hour...

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Yeah that is kinda depressing. But the more depressing thing about that, is that you are probably 10% of the population who realize it and make that statement and only about 5% actually go through with it. People have children like addicts popping pills. There's way to many of them, not enough money or jobs to feed them, and then when those children have their own kids - our world is going to be a super scary place to live in.

Heck - I'm already scared and I work my butt off all the time trying to make ends meet.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I read it somewhere else on here, paraphrasing but: The Baby Boomers get the houses, careers, Social Security and pensions. Meanwhile, they leave the 30 and under crowd with a huge deficit and a broken economy.

I guess the, "As long as I get mine" conservative/Republican mindset really worked in the long term. Thanks 55+ folks for believing in "trickle down economics" -- you've left a wonderful legacy.

Edit to add: I probably won't ever have children because this country is so screwed up. I can't in good conscious bring a life into this mess, considering I could never give it the quality of life I had growing up.

edit on 6-8-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)

I do volunteer work with immigrants where I live. For most of them, the United States promises a waaaaay better life for their children than they ever dreamed of.

Of course, when they arrive, they have little use for a lot of our expenses. They don't see the value of cable TV, and live a life that doesn't require the internet. So they save $100-200.a month right off the top. They don't spend much money on music....The same applies to the rest of their expenses.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs predicts that people don't want to have more kids until they feel secure about the future of their basic provisions for food, clothing and shelter. So it's not unusual for humans to forgo a family for precisely that reason. Maybe the parts of earth that still have a positive population growth are areas where people feel more positive about the future

Originally posted by tovenar

I came into the workforce in the recession of 1992, the most recent previous recession. With 200,000 soldiers coming home from Gulf War I, you couldn't get an interview in this town without an honorable service record.

I dug ditches and cleaned out stables.

I showed up every day. on time. Sober. And within 2 years I was in management. Then I changed career fields and got some benefits. I haven't been out of work for more than 4 weeks in the last 20 years. And I've changed career fields 2 more times in the process.

Are you college educated, by any chance good sir?