Lets End the Fantasy of "being employed" or Having a Career in America

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by gentledissident
That is not how I envision a perfect world. I see a voluntary socialist technological system where necessities are a given.

And how does it work for the people who do not want to 'volunteer' in your vision of utopia?

Originally posted by mwood
I rode my bike 15 miles to work and home each night which REALLY SUCKED but I had to if I wanted to keep a job.

I worked myself from running the fryers & Broiler up to cashier to asst. manager then Manager

There were MANY up's and down's over the years

There were times when I rode 30 miles a day on a bike to work, ate Ramen noodles WAY too much,

While homeless I used to stop on the way to my minimum wage job and wash my hair and body from a hose on the back of a gas station before work and many times got to work with frozen hair (Michigan winters)

you either did whatever you had to to eat or you didn't eat. And believe me, I have slept behind a few dumpsters and buildings while learning that.

And then I essentially said, "You have fun with that."

Originally posted by gentledissident
And then I essentially said, "You have fun with that."

I may join him. I would prefer to work for what I have then wait for my handouts of assorted government cheeses.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by gentledissident
And then I essentially said, "You have fun with that."

I may join him. I would prefer to work for what I have then wait for my handouts of assorted government cheeses.

Is delayed cheese all you want in utopia?

I might stop in for a BK Veggie once in a while to see how the other half lives.

I don't understand people who have no vision and a desire to work their lives away. It seems there always has been and always will be a big divide. I know I'm in the minority. I somehow managed to escape the programming. I know I'll have to go off grid and work hard for what I want. However, to me, that is real work. I'll also make sure I have plenty of time for making music and art, playing board games, juggling, etc.

Let's talk about what no one wants to FIAT currency.

1939 the year my father was born $100 bucks in todays dollars would be worth $1679.

Now when he began working at age sixteen and was making $100 bucks per week in 1955 would be equivalent to $857 bucks today.

That same $100 bucks in 1975 would be worth $435 today

That same $100 bucks in 1995 would be worth $153 today

That same $100 bucks in 2005 would be worth $120 today

See the pattern ?

When a person starts paying in to a social program years go by their 'contribution' was worth considerable more in than the following years current value.

Money is the problem in America not really any group.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
The Baby Boomers seem to be angry that the younger generations aren't FOOLS as they were. This generation, instead of just holding their nose to the grind have the balls to ask "WHY". They have the guts to say "this isn't fair or this isn't right". This generation DARES to dream of fair treatment and they are blasted for it.

Exactly. These people waltzed right out of high school and landed jobs that provided a liveable wage while they thumb their noses at us who work hard, worked hard to get our educations but can't even get anything to raise a family or buy a home off of can kiss my ass. I'm tired of hearing that "spoiled" and "entitled" garbage. Don't direct that nonsense at me, because I'm goddamn self sufficient and will remain so until my heart stops beating.

The joke's on them though. They think they are "entitled" to SS and healthcare because they paid into it, the same way that we are paying into it now and WON'T SEE A DIME...we'll see how long that lasts while the same younger generations that they've pissed on aren't making any money to contribute to the funds that the government has played Atlantic city table craps with while they were busy being drunk off of the privileges of the past.

Originally posted by neo96

And those 'spoiled little brats' aren't paying for squat which is the problem.

And why is that?

Oh that's right...there aren't any jobs because the corporations that you coddle and love to death have brought the government, and used the government to create bogus trade agreements that send jobs overseas for slave labor.

But go ahead..you sit back with your usual dishonesty. You blame government for everything yet fail to realize WHO owns the government. But corporate shilling comes at the price of intellectual honesty, I suppose!

FIAT currency...oh yes, that's part of the problem. Who is in control of that currency?

reply to post by neo96


I agree with you about the money being a key issue that an the lack of jobs in the industrial sector

reply to post by supremecommander

Oh that's right...there aren't any jobs because the corporations that you coddle and love to death have brought the government, and used the government to create bogus trade agreements that send jobs overseas for slave labor.

I absolutely love that demagoguery

Those GD evil corporations then turns around and cries they don't have enough fiat currency, and a job so they can go out and buy all the corporate products their little hearts desire ! ! ! !.

But go ahead..you sit back with your usual dishonesty. You blame government for everything yet fail to realize WHO owns the government. But corporate shilling comes at the price of intellectual honesty, I suppose!

Only 'intellectual dishonesty' I see is the endless, ENDLESS corporate vilification on these boards.

True I do blame government for progressive' liberal' machinations become law that creates problems, and some people refuse to see that, and just go to the standard tried, and true, and FAILED, corporate vilification.

Originally posted by gentledissident
I don't understand people who have no vision and a desire to work their lives away....

I'll also make sure I have plenty of time for making music and art, playing board games, juggling, etc.

Who said I am working my life away? Because I am not.

Who said I do not have time for recreational and artistic endeavors? Because I do.

All I stated is I am not looking for others to do for me, particularly the government.

A system like ours has a built-in assumption that people will reproduce in adequate numbers to maintain a vibrant economy. The baby boomers didn't, generation X didn't and the millennials are no more apt to fill the void either. He who breeds, leads. So when the current middle class is replaced what language will the new America speak?

Originally posted by Variable
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

I guess the, "As long as I get mine" conservative/Republican mindset really worked in the long term. Thanks 55+ folks for believing in "trickle down economics" -- you've left a wonderful legacy.

That wasn't Reagan, that was Democrats. lol. It wasn't until Clinton that the Republicans controlled the House. I guess you don't know much about politics or America. Perhaps you should read more.

Here ya go.

Republican Revolution

V

Actually, going back to the beginnings of the 1970s would be a better start. I graduated in '70, married in '73 and a good wage locally was $1.90/hr. Our grocery budget was $13 a week (2 adults & a newborn) and I could fill the 25 gallon tank in my '65 (edit) Fury III for $5.25.

Once the double digit inflation of the Carter years got the ball rolling, life for guys like me changed forever. I highly recommend "Who Stole The American Dream" by Hedrick Smith.

The last 20 years I've had to attempt to do the manual labor that twenty somethings refuse to do. Now I'm looking at two knee replacements & a hip replacement (that ain't gonna happen) and have basically no real discs in my lumbar or neck and just bits an pieces for a rotary cuff in my right shoulder. Guess that makes me one of those lucky 55+ that screwed everybody that came after me. With no job, a worn out body and nothing but maybe SS, I don't see where I'm supposed to have it so much better than anyone else. I always took the jobs nobody else wanted because I had three kids to feed and bills to pay.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I read it somewhere else on here, paraphrasing but: The Baby Boomers get the houses, careers, Social Security and pensions. Meanwhile, they leave the 30 and under crowd with a huge deficit and a broken economy.

I guess the, "As long as I get mine" conservative/Republican mindset really worked in the long term. Thanks 55+ folks for believing in "trickle down economics" -- you've left a wonderful legacy.

Edit to add: I probably won't ever have children because this country is so screwed up. I can't in good conscious bring a life into this mess, considering I could never give it the quality of life I had growing up.

edit on 6-8-2013 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)

Had things continued as they were - where jobs weren't offshored, where the Democrats weren't supporting illegal immigration and bringing in Section 8 housing and overloading community clinics, the economy would still be prospering. You can prove this by looking at the economies of those cities and countries which didn't offshore against those that did.

Don't forget the bankers. Their biggest profit-making scheme was the buying out of companies in order to close them down, asset strip them and sell off what was left to the Far East. Now, the biggest money earner for the banks is speed-of-light trading where they buy and sell shares within nano-seconds of the price changing.
That destroyed many 401K plans.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
All I stated is I am not looking for others to do for me, particularly the government.

I'm pretty sure that if you don't work in the system I envision, you won't get your cheese. Those people would have to go out and beg in the free market.

I'm sure our current system works for you. To me, it looks inefficient and imbalanced.

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

I am not you and I have said enough about me in this thread and others, what say you in regards to the OP?

I've come to the point where I can honestly say that, for me, the American Dream has just become being allowed to pass away in my sleep, in my own bed, in my own house (while I still own it and the utilities are paid).

The TV is off for longer and longer, lately, because I can't take any more of that, "Better Paying Jobs For America's Middle Class"....

reply to post by Brotherman


.. they make you go throw a temp to save money and paper work.....they don't have to deal with the extra work with a new employee.

also hiring you directly as you stated caused them to pay you pretty good and through a temp what did you say 11$ hr?? They make a bundle ... they don't really care about you making money.. if you make a living off an employer it is an unintended result... they don't plan for that during the assessment of how much your job should get payed.


quite franklly a business does not care how it inconveniences you the employee... you don't have to work for them. They don't have to pay a wage that takes into account your fuel. they pretty much decide what your job is worth and you are to figure out you are to make ends meet.

it sucks but it is just the way it is.

reply to post by Brotherman


It is not just the USA either. I spent about a decade working in the USA, working as a highly skilled, and productive individual (PhD in Chemistry, working in the fine chemistry and pharmaceutical industry). I was earning my company millions, my team mates were earning millions, and my boss had been with the company almost 30 years.

Yet in 2010 my group got dissolved. We were part of a contract research organisation, and well we could not compete with China or India, and it was cheaper for our parent company (most people who work in Science have ordered something from their catalogues ) decided out state of the art lab (which I'd designed) was worth more than us.

I spent the next year looking for work and I was usuall the "top candidae" yet they kept looking. Basically everyone was looking for perfect fits, as opposed to good enough, and avaliable now.

So my wife and I (and our cats) returned home to New Zealand, I got a couple of quick but useful qualifications to make me uniquely more qualified. Come 2012, I'm back to being the "top candidate" but never picked. They either "keep looking" or "I'm too experienced".

Basically the western world at all levels are struggling to employ people. When I went to University we were told "a higher degree makes you guaranteed to work". Yet many of us are not working. There are too many of us.

In the eastern world (China in particular) they employ them, to use their skills.

So what is the difference?

I think part of it is in the west we have expectations of salary. I'd work for less, to bloody well work. But the companies assume we will keep looking. THat was true upto the start of 2000, now we just want to work. Because there are fewer places to go.

reply to post by votan


It doesn't have to be this way though if anything the Temp Agency service in my opinion should be abolished. I was hired with a good company that had values instead of hiring the temp agency they got people hired through their own means. I felt good working there and would love to go back to work for them if they call me back, the Temp Agency is undermining to the worker and is in itself a problem with this country. People keep acting like their is all this paper work and without the temp agency blah blah blah its all bull$hit paper work HA most of this stuff is done on the computer by the person trying to get hired hahahaha you don't get paid to do HR job but you do it for them regardless more or less. People will still apply for jobs without the temp agency help. Gone are the days of the career of 20+ years we will never have back the thriving industry of the last generations past we are going down a serious path here and we as a nation need to figure out what to do and what direction we want to take our country. Give it another three years it isn't going to be pretty.

Originally posted by Brotherman
It doesn't have to be this way

It's however the people with power want it. It really is minority rule. They just convince the majority that it's for the best.

reply to post by gentledissident


IDK I dont have answers just problems friend. I understand that even historically there has always been jobless and not everyone can work if the industry came back etc etc but damn these temp agencies have got to go we need to get some kind of reform what do you think the future is going to look like for those of us in our 20s and early 30s on our current path it is not going to be good I am guessing unless something changes

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Just the same in the uk.
Nearly all work is now via temp agencys.
Nearly all work is part time, by that I mean no more than 2 days per week because it enables employers to evade NI payments etc.
Nearly all work is minimum wage, or very close to it.
Nearly all skills have to retake a test every 3 to 5 years to keep their qualification. If you happen to be unemployed when your qualification expires you cant afford the re-test.
Nearly everyone who finds work needs benefit top ups just to be able to survive.

Nearly all pension funds have been looted and we are told its all are fault because we live too long.

I hear that, one thing about the US is they don't force you to retake tests in most construction industry jobs. I have to take mine in the UK every TWO years and it costs me $1000 a pop!