The new "Normal" in America

Originally posted by AlienScience
Who is this common enemy people keep talking about?

Those that think freedom and liberty are commodities to be bartered and traded.

I saw one vague attempt at defining it...but that seems to be the biggest problem I see in this thread.

Then visit another thread.

The fact is there is no common enemy, just a lot of people pissed off at their lives and want to lash out at an "enemy".

There is a common enemy. There are those that have had better success than others in fighting them, is all.

reply to post by AlienScience


We have never been this bad since the depression. Period.

The government can print money with which to pay its bills, but if history is a guide, governments cannot forever print money without serious consequences. The real economic crisis will hit when the bubble economy can no longer be supported by the printing press.

The scary part of the pending economic crisis occurs when the federal budget deficit widens as the economy contracts and the Fed finds itself in a situation where it cannot print yet more dollars without causing a loss in confidence in the dollar and US Treasury bonds. What does a desperate government do in such a situation? It confiscates what remains of private pensions, piles on taxes, and drives the people and the economy deeper into the ground.

Hiding Economic Depression With Spin

Not many alive today had to suffer through a depression. History says that you cannot keep printing money.

The "new normal" will be people waking up to total economic collapse, and having to struggle like they never have before. America is on a collision course but people seem to think there is a fix for it. Just ask those in Greece what that feels like.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by abeverage
reply to post by beezzer

 

Um what wealth was redistributed unless you mean from the poor to be poorer and the middle class disappearing wealth into the pockets of the wealthy?

I am speaking specifically about those that wish to punish success.

Punish success reward failures ! !

What a complete joke this is they don't see the writing on the wall and the FACT is we are BROKE.

All those champagne wishes, and caviar dreams on a Walmart paycheck.

They are going 'Yes more please'.

The new 'normal' in America the land of living in denial.

reply to post by neo96


Let me ask you, Neo, if Obamacare is so great, then why did they make it MANDITORY to join?

The new "Normal" in America. . . them TELLING you what is best for you.

reply to post by neo96


Wait till Government cant fund Welfare............

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by neo96

 

Wait till Government cant fund Welfare............

Then there will be a revolt, for all the wrong reasons.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by neo96

 

Let me ask you, Neo, if Obamacare is so great, then why did they make it MANDITORY to join?

The new "Normal" in America. . . them TELLING you what is best for you.

Great ideas don't require force.

A great mind once said that.

I have had enough of people telling me what is best for me it is a declaration of they are the master and we are the slave.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by neo96

 

Wait till Government cant fund Welfare............

Yep they will be rioting in the streets burning down someone's business or homes because they threw a hissy fit and don't get what they wanted.

The instant gratification psychosis.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Honestly Beezer, I think we're already in a civil war. While on the one hand as you and your fellows like to point out we have people holding out their hand when they could be more self reliant, but we also have the fat cats and there are a lot of them, who say nope can't charge $.64 more for a value meal so we can pay $15/hr. Those who insist that people don't need to be paid fair wages, have good schools, unions and access to health care and those of you who agree. Then there's the social issues.

JESUS CHRIST!

Of course people need to be paid fair wages! 15 BUCKS AN HOUR is NOT "fair wages" for flippin' burgers! Greed caused Detroit to price itself right out of jobs at all, and now you want to watch restaurants go under for the last time too?

Somebody stick a fork in something, because we're DONE!

One thing is certain, though - this ain't the same nation I grew up in. Fought as hard as I could to preserve and deliver that nation to my kids, and I failed. This place has turned upside down, and there ain't no fixing it. Rebooting is the only viable option left.

It started changing for the worse a long time ago. In 1975, the "Bicentennial Year", I looked around at what was happening even then, and told my dad then that we'd not see a Tricentennial. I've never hated being right more.

"Fundamental transformation" my ass. The nation has been stolen and replaced with a Golem. Maybe old Timothy Leary had it right after all - tune in, turn on, and DROP THE HELL OUT.

For the revolutionaries out there, here ya go:



I've gotten old and useless. I've fought all my fights and lost, it appears. I can't take up my musket and fight 'em now no more, but that don't mean I'm going to hug 'em all up, either. I'm just gonna stake out my corner of the pasture to go on out to, and God help anyone that comes along to disturb my peace out there. The nation is so far gone and so busted up that a hundred thousand of me couldn't fix it, but I can still sure as hell defend the peace in my little corner of it.

They'll have to kill me to put an end to that and collectivize the whole damned pasture. To be brutally frank, I'm goddamned glad I won't live to see the last piece fall.

ETA: good schools - we had 'em until the progressives (what a cute little euphemism for collectivist totalitarians! Back in the day, we called them "Soviets") came along and mucked 'em all up.

Unions - never met a good one. Not worth a damn for anything. Growing up in Ohio, I saw the teamsters shooting into cars from overpasses because they were bent that they weren't getting rich enough. Growing up in the coal fields, I saw the UMWA start killing folks off, burning cars, and generally making a mess of things every 3 years at contract time like clockwork, because they were bent that 20 bucks an hour just wasn't enough (yup, 20 bucks an hour, even back then! and still their greed dictated that it wasn't enough!) I was in a union myself for a while - the SEIU. Saw what they did, too, and quit that job after 8 months because the union was crazy as a bunch of bedbugs and I couldn't escape the union without ditching the job, too. Unions - eff 'em ALL!

Health care - I don't care what kind you have. More power to ya! I'm happy to leave you alone to pursue it. Why in the HELL can't people leave me alone NOT to pursue it? Freedom just ain't free unless they can force me to buy another useless product, is it? I guess freedom doesn't count for all of us - just the ones that want health care. Hell, next thing you know they'll have to pass another law that I've got to eat McDonalds greaseburgers so Micky-D's can afford to pay the burger flippers their 15 bucks an hour... and give 'em their doctor visits and what not. Maybe pass a law that I gotta buy a new car every year so's Detroit can revitalize or something.

Freedom my dyin' ass. Freedom ain't free when they're passing laws to try forcing you into buying useless crap.

Only "social issue" I see at the moment is fine "progressive" folk trying to disturb my peace and thinking they have some kind of right to tell me what I've got to buy and whatnot.

They can bite me... but they'll have to come out to my little corner of the pasture to do it, and that ain't gonna be healthy for anyone. Better stock up on that "health care" before they come. - I won't be needing any when the dust settles.

reply to post by nenothtu


You and I. . .we're old warriors. It's only been a few months since I've hung up my holster and ACU's.

But I'm not done fighting.

It's not about a hill or map quardinates anymore, it's about values and beliefs.

reply to post by beezzer


The fast food kiddies all went "on strike" here a few days ago. I seriously considered going for a greaseburger just so I could cross the picket line, march up to the manager, and say "see that craziness out there? Do you want people here that will work, or people that are going to march around carrying signs? Let's talk."

Squeals of "SCAB!" don't phase me at all. I've been called worse things by better people. After seeing what their "work" force (looked more like a marching band that couldn't play instruments to me) is like, though, I think it'll be a while before I partake of any more fast food.

reply to post by nenothtu


About a week ago I was in my boss's office.

Reports, updates. . .etc.

Near the end he asked if there was anything he could do for me.

I told him I wanted a corner office with a view, a secretary to take care of my paperwork and an espresso machine in my office.


He threw a coffee cup at my head (I ducked) and then told me to "get the hell out of his office"!



Do you think the current government can help me out?

Originally posted by nenothtu
Hell, next thing you know they'll have to pass another law that I've got to eat McDonalds greaseburgers so Micky-D's can afford to pay the burger flippers their 15 bucks an hour... and give 'em their doctor visits and what not. Maybe pass a law that I gotta buy a new car every year so's Detroit can revitalize or something.

At the rate we are going it wouldn't surprise me either.

I really think that when China started flushing cheep crap on our soil, we took that turn. All the toys you can buy for a dollar or two. Company's left to make money and compete, we got stuck with cheep crap. Our Leaders and their ilk have slowly cooked this stew into a boiling froth of bones.

And really. This isn't "doom and gloom". Millions are struggling. 16 trillion in debt. its the reality of it all.

Got some room on that Pasture?

reply to post by beezzer


Well, that certainly sounds like a reasonable list of demands to me! What you need to do is get a sign and march around out front. That'll work for SURE!

If it don't, well, what you need is a union then. See, how that works is, you pay them so much money every paycheck, they take the money to Vegas and blow it on showgirls, gambling, and liquor (they'll probably take your new secretary with them), and in return, they'll print up the sign for you to carry out front of the building!

It works like a charm, every time, and your secretary will return when she sobers up, honest!

I think addressing the problems in America properly has to include some recognition that we have never been an ideal nation.

Yes, I agree that these trends are concerning and negative and there has to be a pretty drastic change in direction and culture.

But when people criticize the current situation and allude to some great past in America, it get's lost on me. We don't want to go back to the 50's or 60's, or even the 90's. There have been many improvements alongside the negative, namely the availability of information.

The fallacy I see in conservatism is the need to preserve America as it was in the past and that the ideal has already been achieved. This is a sentiment that will not be a successful political message going forward, because it is false.

I'm not sure if this is what the OP is really getting at, but I interpreted the "new Normal" as not only criticizing the now but also idealizing the past.

There is no mainstream political message in America right now that really hits home.

reply to post by sonnny1


Good thing China is dumping that cheap crap on us - it's all we can afford now that manufacturing has been shipped overseas and what jobs are left here are pricing themselves out of existence at the behest of the unions!

The UMWA mines I mentioned above? They closed most of those down in the 90's. Too expensive to pay the wages they were demanding. The Obama came along and said "carbon is evil - we're going to tax the crap out of it so we can close down the rest of the mines". Now Appalachia is sliding back into the same poverty that has always been - but it's getting deeper now. I don't think this is the kind of "warfare" Johnson intended with his "War on poverty", but I could be mistaken.

Sure, there's room in the pasture. I'll likely be swinging from a tree in the fence line like a monkey most of the time, anyhow. You can see them coming further away from up there.Come on in - we'll leave a light on for ya!

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17


No, it's never been perfect, but it HAS been a whole lot better. The idea was to improve it, not destroy it.

We failed to stem the collectivism, and the progressives burnt it to the ground.

reply to post by nenothtu


Not sure it's that simple. For every tyrant in DC there is one on Wall St. How do you reign in the private sector tyrants without expanding the gov? Then how do you reign in the gov tyrants once expanding?

The problem isn't the expansion of the government or the corporation, it is the centralization of everything and the increasing opportunity for tyranny everywhere.

I hear a lot from conservatives on pulling back big government but nothing on pulling back the centralized private sector with a more localized consumer culture. The threat is equal if not greater from the private sector.

Both sides, not just progressives, are rank with hypocrisy and inconsistency.


ETA: Also curious, when in you opinion was America at it's best? the 80's?

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Not sure it's that simple. For every tyrant in DC there is one on Wall St. How do you reign in the private sector tyrants without expanding the gov? Then how do you reign in the gov tyrants once expanding?

The problem isn't the expansion of the government or the corporation, it is the centralization of everything and the increasing opportunity for tyranny everywhere.

I hear a lot from conservatives on pulling back big government but nothing on pulling back the centralized private sector with a more localized consumer culture. The threat is equal if not greater from the private sector.

Both sides, not just progressives, are rank with hypocrisy and inconsistency.

Here I have to allude back to my post about German merchants vs German politicians s etc.

We're nitpicking here.

Are you losing liberties and freedoms?

(If yes, press 2, if no press "I want to be analy raped")

reply to post by beezzer


I'm not nitpicking, I was the one who said it's tyranny everywhere we need to fight against. I was responding to the comment "progressives burnt it to the ground."

That is nitpicking.