The new "Normal" in America

reply to post by curiousme333


Think on it a bit more.

It would not take away their proportionate wealth.

It is an idea based on the prisoners dilemma, and more specifically, math/exploration like this. This isnt new stuff, but the direct application to real world sociological, economic, and even technological structures has never been explored much other than qualitatively. edit: I just picked that link out of a google search and quickly browsed it. It seems to be a good, basic guide to the premise, but I didnt analyze it too much. Another correction is that this has been explored internally within the wealthy community as far back as the early 1900's. They realized that internal cooperation lead to more effective market domination, but this has never been applied in a more general sense.

They would not "be like everyone else" by any stretch of the imagination, they would still have greater wealth and power than 99.99% of the worlds population. The only difference would be that the quality of life would be significantly greater for everyone involved. So if you mean that they profit more, just like everyone else, then we would be on the same page. But, its all about proportions and percentages, wherein the vastly wealth would still be vastly wealthy in accordance to their free-will based actions.

They arent "looking to control the world," they already do. Through their actions, they are also blatantly stating they do not want everyone to be successful, since that compromises market domination.

reply to post by beezzer

And that's why we'll never have our 2nd revolution.

I see no reason to give them exactly what they want Beez. Welcome to the New Age.

Hold it right there!!!! Don't nobody move!!! this the .C.I.A,,,F.B.I,,,,I.R.S,,,E.P.A,,,D.E.A,,AND G.M.O. Dissention will NOT be tolorated!!!! Prepare for immediate arrest, detention, reeducation!!

reply to post by curiousme333


My hands are high don't taze me bro. I'm only the piano player !

Originally posted by redoubt

Originally posted by Merinda
Well what can I say, we live in a post 9/11 world.

A post Kennedy Assassination world? We had to recenter and go on... and we did.

edit on 3-8-2013 by redoubt because: (no reason given)

Lorenzini from Pinocchio. The Baby Boomers were the children suckered into the "fun" and turned into a DONKEY because of it.

This Re-CENTER was the official ceremonial Coup D'Etat.. JFK, the biggest figure on the worlds largest stage is KILLED in straight-up broad daylight!.. and then

The CIA planted this hippy seed.. SEX, DRUGS, Rock n' Roll.. the older generation (ones raised through the depression) constantly harped on and on about the "me generation" and how the future didn't look so promising once the ME gen took over. Anyone around their grandparents recall this stuff (circa 1970's)

SO, Franz Ferdinand got sniped and World War breaks out. But then it happens here?; and the youth (who HISTORICALLY have been the catalyst of change, taking to the streets) decided.. Ah F- IT our lives are so sweet, lets free drugs-free sex 24/7 party it up!..

And they partied the 70's-90's away... MAKING UNHEARD OF MONEY... AND SQUANDERING twice as much.

the elites killed the golden goose, and the baby boomers were too busy sweeping up the scraps..


HOW WAS THE 40 year party BABY BOOMERS?
1960-2000?

was it as sweet as all the stuff you have still?. (vacation homes, RV's, paid kids thru college, making more ON PENSIONS!!! than we make today!! AND YOUR STUFF IS ALL PAID FOR!!).. that us younger will never see ?

Well you know, the best way to fight fire is with fire. Im not talking about rising up in a violent revolution (although that could also achieve goals) I am talking about creating businesses! We have to start making our own businesses to compete in our local economies.

We need people to manufacture electronics right here in the US, but that takes citizens with the will to accept a normal standard of living and not demand a brand new car for each driver, highest tech cell phone, or instant wealth. I absolutely believe we can compete with China in manufacturing consumer electronics, toys, clothes, and tools. We just have to be willing to not to see piles of gold with this business model and treat it like any other retail and service job. We can keep the prices pretty close and maintain good pay. Just no more pension and 100% covered healthcare. As long as we unwilling to compromise SOME benefits, the jobs will never come back.

I would rather offer a decent paying job with reduced benefits, then offer no jobs at all. And the unemployed will be perfectly willing to compromise for steady work.

When enough people have achieved that, we can then begin our own lobbying efforts for OUR demands, the demands of regular American citizens and not the multi-nationals or foreign interests. We get our lobbyists into the capitol building with hidden cameras and then we can run ads on tv as well to smoke out the traitorous congressmen and woman who demand to only listen to the highest bidder.

The double edged sword of surveillance is only now beginning to turn on the watchers as well. Our goal will be to continue to compromise their integrity by exposing every scandal on camera and replacing them with citizens who wish to serve American interests.

FYI, ATS still does not allow posting through an anonymous ip even when I login with my username. I can login, but I cannot post. get your nuts back ATS.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by frazzle
Look at Ron Paul. He hammered on liberty for all and it scared the **** out of half the population.

The hard part is agreeing on a common enemy.

Well, frazzle I respectfully disagree with that, Ron Paul engaged the youth in
learning the political process, and they have had no one else take an interest
in them. I dont think they were scared at all, they were engerized in the cause
of political reform. The scaremongers - Pelosi and Reid - and others were the
ones who framed the independent voters as terrorists.

I didn't say Dr. Paul scared the whole population, just HALF of it and that's all it takes. Well, that and some creative counting. Unfortunately the election seems to have taken a lot of the wind out of the sails of the energized youth, although there is still a faint breeze coming from that direction. Just not enough to move the boat forward.

Hi folks. Thanks for the replies and making this a rather well behaved thread.

I'm not talking about any kum-by-yah moment or hand holding or hugs.

We can still have a difference of opinion.

But. . . .

We can still debate the fine points while we're in the foxhole fighting the common enemy.

We are going through something very similar to what Rome went through. I dont think any Romans ever woke up one morning and realized the empire had fallen, it happened slowly. any of you who are over 30 know you are not living in the country you grew up in. Who I feel bad for are those young people who will never know that things were a lot better once.

Originally posted by darkbake

Originally posted by beezzer
The "New Normal".

The new "Normal" is millions on food stamps.

The new "Normal" is millions on government aid.

The new "Normal" is redistributed wealth.

I think that everything you mentioned is a statement that can be backed up by facts. These three statements though, although they are also true, I would like to say:

I promote a system that gives the poor the option to improve themselves while maintaining a safety net instead of being built to keep them stuck, that's the main problem with the current system.

In fact, I have heard that the current system is built in order to ensure Democrat votes and keep Democrats safely in power.

There are people frustrated with not being able to move forward even when they put in the effort.

edit on 3-8-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

no no no safety net.. if you can't make it without help you die.

Originally posted by beezzer
Hi folks. Thanks for the replies and making this a rather well behaved thread.

I'm not talking about any kum-by-yah moment or hand holding or hugs.

We can still have a difference of opinion.

But. . . .

We can still debate the fine points while we're in the foxhole fighting the common enemy.

Originally posted by neo96

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by neo96

 

The problem is, too many are ALSO proud of it as well.

We shall defend our ATS , whatever the cost may be, we shall fight in the threads, we shall fight them in every post, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

Never give up, Never Surrender ! !

We simply lay down roll over play dead ?

They win.

----

Good play on Winston Churchill's World War 2 speech!

What we need NOW in the USA is for everything to goto hell so that
the FITTEST may survive and the REST must DIE or at least go away!!!!
Then we rebuild America in our image and to the rest of the world we'll
just have to give'em all the middle finger and make them solve
their own problems without our help!

I would go COMPLETELY ISOLATIONIST with walls and tariffs all around.
Focus EXCLUSIVELY on the US economy and try to solve the education
crisis and a job crisis caused mostly by excessive computerization and
automation, excessive capital flight and an excessive emphasis on services
rather than exports IN ADDITION to a public morals crisis caused originally
by the BABY BOOMERS but exacerbated by the Gen-X/Gen-Y young-uns
and their heavy focus on violent media consumption and a wide-spread
debasement of common civility and common sense!

You can't fix the other problems without FIXING THE VERY PEOPLE THEMSELVES.
There must also be a realization AND ACCEPTANCE that you can't fix everything or
everyone and that in MANY cases you just have to DESTROY the bad apples
and JUNK the unfixable things and start fresh!

It's brutal, but when it comes to societal survival I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM
with doing WHAT IS NECESSARY TO ENSURE the survival of the greater good!

reply to post by beezzer


We do have a common enemy however we're never going to focus on it as long as (from my perspective) someone is running that is going to slash social programs, introduce anti-choice legislation etc... I will be forced to vote against that person, potentially and I'm sure you can provide an opposite analogy. So what do we do? This requires an honest conversation about Liberty and that's something I don't see happening either.

We are constantly given this choice of bad and worse. If I'm going to vote for someone based on their promise to help dismantle the NSA, the Patriot ACT, FISA etc... I might be forced to sacrifice everything else I believe in. Unless we actually are going to put our money where our mouth is when we say I believe in Liberty it is always going to be this way.

So let me ask you this, if in your home district, after primaries, candidate A is promising to fight for lower taxes, less gun control, and slashing food stamp benefits in half for single people with no children... but supports the NSA and all our spying programs but candidate B is running on a platform of fighting to raise taxes on anyone that makes more than 250K/year, lessening restrictions on who qualifies for food stamps and wants impose more thorough background checks for gun sales... but promises to fight tooth and nail every spy program we have and promises to vote yes on every NSA dismantlement legislation that is put forth... who are you going to vote for?

reply to post by votan


My wife is singing that song now.

*shakes fist*

All of which is over bearing, big government. When people ask, "why do civilians need hi capacity assult rifles?" when a governments buries the fundamental values on which it was created, when a government becomes corrupt, when a government decides for you, what is best for you...just read the bill of rights and the constitution. It is almost scary in which it is speaking of the times we are now living in.

Originally posted by Kali74

So let me ask you this, if in your home district, after primaries, candidate A is promising to fight for lower taxes, less gun control, and slashing food stamp benefits in half for single people with no children... but supports the NSA and all our spying programs but candidate B is running on a platform of fighting to raise taxes on anyone that makes more than 250K/year, lessening restrictions on who qualifies for food stamps and wants impose more thorough background checks for gun sales... but promises to fight tooth and nail every spy program we have and promises to vote yes on every NSA dismantlement legislation that is put forth... who are you going to vote for?

I'd grit my teeth and vote for candidate B.

Because everything else is moot if we don't have the essential freedoms and liberties to be the foundation.

reply to post by beezzer


Why don't we just try to get a common definition of Liberty instead?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Why don't we just try to get a common definition of Liberty instead?

How about this;

We want to get to a place where the choice of going it independently or being on the government dole is an option.

Where the freedom to be as independent as you desire, still exists.

Keep your social programs, just make sure I have the freedom to "opt out" and am not stuck or forced to pay for them.

Originally posted by beezzer


Keep your social programs, just make sure I have the freedom to "opt out" and am not stuck or forced to pay for them.

"Mandatory"entitlement programs are always in the Red.

Would love to opt out of it all, and keep what I make.

reply to post by beezzer


On or off or paying/not paying into the 'dole' is your only definition of liberty?