Americans committed the worst genocide in world history

Originally posted by sonnny1
Seeing that disease killed 70-90 percent, I would have to say the "genocide" label is just a pretext to try and make the US, villain number one, all time.

Yes, let us just sweep The Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee, and Custer's Last Stand under the rug. It was disease, people. No wrongs happened... Your sympathetic attitude towards the expansionists is almost rude. All civilizations have sought to expand after periods of success, but that doesn't mean we should judge the means by which those expansions happened just, no matter how we've profited.

Originally posted by MadMax7
This is true. But the 'Indians' did to their own kind what the whites did to them as they were pushed from their traditional lands into the interior....or do you not know that part of the history also?

Also it was the British that first started it.

Your trying to pass the blame.

Didn't Paul Revere cry "The British Are Coming"

So let me ask you, when is an American an American? Or when is an American in fact British to suit your argument?

Originally posted by FidelityMusic

 

They were Americans by then? You do know that most of the Indians died through disease brought by the Europeans, while millions of others were raped and murdered by the Spaniards in the Caribbeans, North, Central, and South America. Also my Grandparents were Spaniards,

How many died from disease? 90%?
And how many where killed by the Spaniards? Another 75%?
Your grandparents were Spaniards, the Spaniards certainly did a thorough job also.

I repeat it again, I brought up the subject because we need to learn from history. Selective amnesia does not help with that. The next time you read about what kind of a devil Stalin was, I hope you will remember this.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000]

 

90% Natives died because of a lack of immunity to our European pathogens. What luck! And what caused the Europeans to be immune to the Native pathogens?

At the moment...lack of sources mean an absolute lack of believing or giving much benefit to the doubt.

I admit, the Native Americans are not as skilled in the performance of research studies. And since history is written by the winners, I must consider that the 90% number is correct (haha) and European settlers were the real victims in the battle for land.

As it happens, the figures Sonnny quoted hit pretty close to what I had last semester in my Geo course...which covered Native American culture and the summary of it's rise and fall from the Siberian land crossing to the end of the Indian Wars around the turn of the 20th century. Disease is what killed a good %, if not major majority.

"good %", that sounds like the correct number.

Does it surprise me that they teach you "the winners' side of history"? No.

Americans have much to be ashamed of:-

rabble.ca...

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Americans did not commit this genocide. Europeans did.

The actually estimate of how many deaths is impossible to come up with. They say its anywhere from 15 million to like 150 million. So there is no way of really knowing but 47 million I would say is a good estimate.

Originally posted by alldaylong
Americans have much to be ashamed of:-

rabble.ca...

Humans have much to be ashamed of as a species.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

Americans did not commit this genocide. Europeans did.

The actually estimate of how many deaths is impossible to come up with. They say its anywhere from 15 million to like 150 million. So there is no way of really knowing but 47 million I would say is a good estimate.

edit on 2-8-2013 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

You need to take your blinkers off:-

www.usdakotawar.org...

The worst thing to my mind, and the reason why people today should still feel guilty about it, is it is still happening. Native Americans are still kept pinned up in 'reservations', denied the land of their forefathers, riven with endless social problems and deprivation. Denied their culture and heritage by an invading culture that refuses to accept of recognise responsibility for what it did.

Everyone on the planet comes from a culture or history that has been murdering or cruel to others.
EVERYONE. America and/or Americans aren't 'the worst'. That's silly.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Everyone on the planet comes from a culture or history that has been murdering or cruel to others.
EVERYONE. America and/or Americans aren't 'the worst'. That's silly.

When it comes to numbers, America is right up there. We're not even counting dead Iraqi's or Afghani's here. Just dead native americans. "Y'all" rack 'em up like no other nation on earth.

I'm of viking stock and I certainly feel no obligation of guilt or reparations to the english, french, etc, but our numbers pale in comparison. You guys don't even kick ass and take names. You just bag em and tag em.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

Americans did not commit this genocide. Europeans did.

The actually estimate of how many deaths is impossible to come up with. They say its anywhere from 15 million to like 150 million. So there is no way of really knowing but 47 million I would say is a good estimate.

edit on 2-8-2013 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

Well most of those "europeans" became "americans" So... keep playing with semantics. If it werent for europeans there wouldnt be americans, and if that genocide as you call it, wouldnt have happened, you wouldnt have the great country you call the united states of america today. So... Its kinda easy to be against something when you're sitting comfortably on top of the cushy and juicy fruits of the very issue you're criticizing. Those men were building a country. You're just living in it, you inherited a great country forged in blood - european, american, native, african, etc. Theres a difference. In their shoes, what would you do... maybe the same, or worse. But you're comfy now, so all that you have left is a great country and the right to criticize how that country was made - because when they made it, they also made clear that you had the right to do it.

... and 150 million is just... thats almost half the population of today's united states. Are you on drugs? 150 million.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz

 

Americans did not commit this genocide. Europeans did.

The actually estimate of how many deaths is impossible to come up with. They say its anywhere from 15 million to like 150 million. So there is no way of really knowing but 47 million I would say is a good estimate.

So you want to call us all Europeans. It's fine with me. It's just a word. Either way they are our ancestors, are they not?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

 

Everyone on the planet comes from a culture or history that has been murdering or cruel to others. EVERYONE. America and/or Americans aren't 'the worst'. That's silly.

When I grew up the consensus was that the US was one of the few 'good guys', protectors of freedom and human rights. Disillusionment has set in - partially.

Is it really silly?

OP, you are welcome to your self loathing....that is fine.

The vast number of native Americans were killed by disease from just coming into contact with the Spaniards. When actual colonization began, the damage had already been done.

My father's side of the family got here in the 1600's from Germany and settled in Eastern PA before moving down into Virginia....sorry, I wasn't around then so I accept no blame.

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
Correction, the Europeans committed the worst genocide in world history. I don't know where you get calling the Europeans "Americans," or even confusing them.

Quoted for truth

That is all.
Carry on

Originally posted by Damian65
OP, you are welcome to your self loathing....that is fine.

The vast number of native Americans were killed by disease from just coming into contact with the Spaniards. When actual colonization began, the damage had already been done.

My father's side of the family got here in the 1600's from Germany and settled in Eastern PA before moving down into Virginia....sorry, I wasn't around then so I accept no blame.

Is that what your history books tell you? Because if so, You just justified the OP. I am appalled if that is your version of American history.

ETA:

To make it clear where I stand: The U.S government made killing "indians" a past time, and when the natives proved difficult to kill, the drove their food source (The Buffalo) to the brink of extinction with the WRITTEN desire of wiping out the native americans.

I am floored anyone could blame disease for the planned genocide of the native american people by the U.S government. IT WAS STATE SANCTIONED POLICY.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Damian65
OP, you are welcome to your self loathing....that is fine.

The vast number of native Americans were killed by disease from just coming into contact with the Spaniards. When actual colonization began, the damage had already been done.

My father's side of the family got here in the 1600's from Germany and settled in Eastern PA before moving down into Virginia....sorry, I wasn't around then so I accept no blame.

Is that what your history books tell you? Because if so, You just justified the OP. I am appalled if that is your version of American history.

[snip]

Be appalled...I just goggled who gives a [snip]...my name is not in the results.

Spaniard is not American...ever hear of small pox? The central and south Americans were decimated by it.

Sure, when you take into account that we were so kind and gave infected blankets to the natives...that did not help...but YOU sir need to read more. Apparently you have found a version of history you approve of but that does not make it correct.

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
Correction, the Europeans committed the worst genocide in world history. I don't know where you get calling the Europeans "Americans," or even confusing them.

Well whatever ones position about the whole thing it is impossible to separate Europe from what happened in the states. Before they were the states there was the French and English wars here that included many native on both sides. The whole of the world wide thrust of whites around the globe naturally started in Europe, was an extension of European conflicts of many sorts and confronted just about every non-European race on the earth.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


My ancestors were not in on that, you can't pin it on all of the Americans. My ancestors worked on farms and in mines in Finland, maybe some of them worked in factories also. I would say that some put in time fighting in wars that the power hungry people in Europe at the time started also, they were just slaves to the societies they lived in as is the case with most of us.

One shoe cannot fit all, remember that. I have and will never have convictions about things I had no part in. I like many of the native Americans, most of them are cool people. I like going to powwows and their functions and trying some of their foods and listening to their songs.

What was done to the Indians was wrong, they should be continually compensated for the wrong that was done to them because the people of this country are benefitting from this today. I think our government should quit allowing the greedy to screw their tribes also. I can't see giving them everything they want, but I can see helping them with helping themselves. We don't need a bunch of spoiled Indians being formed either, that is not their traditional way, they were mellow people....at least most tribes.