Americans committed the worst genocide in world history

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Of course, a "culture that did this". Not a person, nobody who needs to take responsibility for his actions. Very convenient.

Again, what do you want done?



Don't give me the lame excuse you want to know "why". That's been answered. What do you want done for past mistakes done by those who settled this Country, or ANY other Country that you can put the "Genocide Label" on?

Responsibility.

Whos responsible. Who needs to pay. What needs to be done. An answer would be great.

reply to post by sonnny1

What do you want done for past mistakes done by those who settled this Country, or ANY other Country that you can put the "Genocide Label" on?

That question wasn't addressed to me, but if I could add a thought ....

The Lakota People’s Law Project is waging a comprehensive campaign to win the return of more than 2,200 Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota children illegally taken from their families. The effort combines three major initiatives:

lakotalaw.org...

Paying some attention to CURRENT "mistakes" might be a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by sonnny1

 

Again, what do you want done?
Don't give me the lame excuse you want to know "why". That's been answered. What do you want done for past mistakes done by those who settled this Country, or ANY other Country that you can put the "Genocide Label" on?
Responsibility.
Whos responsible. Who needs to pay. What needs to be done.

I answer, you don't like my answer, you ask again, my answer is till the same.

I used to be in the 'somewhat conservative' (please, not Republican) camp. People including myself back then see things Dem v. Rep, Black v. White, rich v. poor. Those are artificial divisions.

What needs to be done? We need to learn from it. Not from what happened 200 years ago but what is happening today. Your kids are being taught nonsense - and they believe it to be true, what choice do they have?

If it works on your kids, if you can't protect them from it, it will always work. No matter how big the lie.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Which is unfortunate.
Sure the US subjugated the Indians.
It is Western culture that did this.

Of course, a "culture that did this". Not a person, nobody who needs to take responsibility for his actions. Very convenient.

"subjugated"? Sounds better than "murdered" or "slaughtered" or "genocide", yes, lets go wit that.

Indeed, unfortunate.

Find the person that did this and bring them to account. Otherwise, you are digging up dead horses to beat.

"Subjugated" is exactly what it was. Out here where I live the natives were not very friendly at all, and tried to kill settlements. In the mid 1800's this was mostly brought under control.

We moved into this land, corraled the natives into unsavory tracts of land, and split the rest up among the Western culturalists. There was no systematic rounding up of and slaughtering anyone. Folks who got along tended to be assimilated. Folks who didn't were slaughtered. That is the nature of US history.

reply to post by sonnny1


That is likely the reason for the thread. Which is even more of a pity.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by hp1229

 

Really? Care to break it down by the historical dates? America is a relatively new country. The continent was ruled by several different countries. Care to approximate as per how many Indians were butchered after America was born?

You seem to have the number already, why don't you offer it? Notice in my OP I made it clear that the exact number was not the main issue, if it could even be determined.

My focus is on the reaction and the instruction we get TODAY, and what we should learn from it for the FUTURE.

Well I can always point you to some BS link with numbers. How much of it is the truth out there? I'm asking you since this is your thread to point to some legitimate links with some descent stats on the numbers butchered if you consider there indeed was a genocide. When does genocide truely applies? Murders within a short period or over few centuries?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
When speaking of killing off the native inhabitants shouldn't all of the America's be included? North, South, and Central America. That would change the numbers and it is hardly fair to blame US Americans when it was Spanish and European interference that decimated the populace.

Thankyou Precisely what I wanted to imply. Folks generalize and blame Americans (US) as Americas are two continents (North and South)which is in Fashion and a trend on ATS

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by borntowatch
Aaaahh you Yanks..Those Indians were not as evolved as us Caucasians, genetically inferior in fact.

I bet Hitler must have thought the same about Brits before bombarding London. Britain invaded many countries and claimed other civilizations knowledge as their own (the brits were very well known for that). Lets be real please.

Actually, Hitler admired the British, and wanted peace with them. He must have thought they were good Aryans. He had London bombed because of what the RAF did to Hamburg. You need to dig a little deeper than the History 101 level.

Thats what you think and believe. So he wanted to destroy and invade UK because of Hamburg? Is that it? You need to stop believing the history too soon and too quickly beyond the 101 level

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

What needs to be done? We need to learn from it. Not from what happened 200 years ago but what is happening today. Your kids are being taught nonsense - and they believe it to be true, what choice do they have?

You learn from past mistakes too, not just whats happening today. My children get schooled twice. Whats being taught to them, and what I teach. I dont think many parents do this.

A good Indian, is a dead Indian. That's was the mentality back in the day. Not any more. My children have Indian blood. Their mother is Oneida. They know what was done to their great great grandparents. Like I said earlier. You cant label genocide as a top ten list. There are too many to count, and some we will never know of.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman
Originally posted by sonnny1

What needs to be done? We need to learn from it. Not from what happened 200 years ago but what is happening today. Your kids are being taught nonsense - and they believe it to be true, what choice do they have?
If it works on your kids, if you can't protect them from it, it will always work. No matter how big the lie.

True. Precisely what I believe as well. Teaching the kids the truth and not nonsense. I like the idea however it should start with the truth. Not the distorted kind to the best extent. As you know most of the history about the wild west is glorified and distored. Besides the history of the American Continents (not just good ole US of A) goes way back before the birth of US. Your topic isn't suggesting any of that. It simply seems to blame Americans.

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
Correction, the Europeans committed the worst genocide in world history. I don't know where you get calling the Europeans "Americans," or even confusing them.

So when did the Europeans become Americans?

reply to post by sonnny1

A good Indian, is a dead Indian.

Now a good Muslim is a dead Muslim.

The course taught officers there was no such thing as moderate Islam and that they should consider the religion their enemy.

It advocated "total war" against all the world's Muslims, including possible nuclear attacks on the holy cities of Mecca and Medina and the wiping out civilian populations.

The Pentagon has confirmed the course material found on their website is authentic.

www.bbc.co.uk...

So true, I believe collective consciousness is actually a part of what we deem as intelligence, the ability to tap into others minds for information. In the case of the football game, the teams fans can go to locust mindset, feeding each others energy by emittng certain frequencies. I think this happens at what were intended to be peaceful protests also, one person with extreme alpha characteristics can stir up this communication and create a riot while just observing from the side. I think that this is possible, I am thinking it may even be probable. Broad spectrum alpha blocking white noise may possibly break up this. Just like they can stop locusts with frequencies nowadays.

Sometimes people had no intention of doing things but somehow got roped into it. This rope is collective consciousness, a disturbing Alpha can be the cause. People will tend to back up their involvement afterwards than to say that they just lost control in the event, this often keeps the locust going, especially if they are alpha.

So just another lets bash Americans thread this is getting pathetic.

Hey mods would it be possible to have a ''Bash America'' thread so there is no confusion to what we are going to read.

Originally posted by thesaneone
So just another lets bash Americans thread this is getting pathetic.
Hey mods would it be possible to have a ''Bash America'' thread so there is no confusion to what we are going to read.

Not a bad idea. Atleast it will divert and keep the bashers away from the interesting topics and forums.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

Americans committed the worst genocide in world history and to this day, not only are we not accepting the blame for it, we are not even accused of it commonly. For some reason, everybody else in the world feels the same way, it is okay for 20 of our Presidents to collectively committ the worst genocide in human history. It is okay that we cut off their scalp and be rewarded for it.

First, the term 'Indians' came from an initial, mistaken belief that North America was the East Indies.

Second... yes, what was done to those who were here before us was horrible. I doubt you will find anyone who is an American of any color or ethnic background who could, or would deny this. But to label it as the worst genocide in history is to ignore so many others that both came before and have since followed.

Behavior like this is a human trait that spans the entire species... so while I agree that what happened to native Americans was then, is now and will be forever wrong, to use it as a blinder to so many other atrocities over humanity's watch on this planet... reeks of some other ulterior motive.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


The real perpetrators for the indigenous die off in North and South america are as follows:

bubonic plague
german measles
smallpox
influenza
typhus
typhoid
cholera
tuberculosis

And contrary to popular myth, there is only one (contested) event where disease may have been intentionally transmitted to Indians for warfare purposes.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Well, the holocaust lasted how many years?

Not to justify it, but that 47 million number you give was spread out over a much longer period of time. Just wanted to point that out. 47 million is still a staggering number of people to die over the course of European contact in the Americas.

Also, does these numbers come from strictly N. America? Or all of the Americas?

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

What do I want? I want somebody to explain it.

Want it explained?

Fine your here right now crying for the natives BECAUSE of it.

Feel free to give up everything you own back to the natives.

Don't see that happening.

I'm unsure what nationality the smallpox virus was but it was to blame for the majority of the deaths of Native Americans upon arrival of the Europeans. By the time trappers and explorers pushed in to indian lands fully half the population had been wiped out by diseases brought by the white man.

60 million is a bit high imo, from what I've read perhaps 20 million at most inhabited North America at their peak. You're right about the genocide. We killed, conquered, enslaved and stole. We tried to destroy their culture, language and spiritual practices as well but thankfully some survived.
There were over 500 different languages spoken on the continent and there were even more tribes than linguistic groups. Losing their heritage was a great loss to the world.


Regardless of the numbers it was a horrible time in our history. The suffering was intensely felt across the continent sparing only a few tribes who somehow managed to remain intact. I often wonder what the US would be like had we only settled areas the tribes agreed to share with us. I think we could have had an amazingly diverse and respectful nation built on sustainable practices.

Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

The real perpetrators for the indigenous die off in North and South america are as follows:

bubonic plague
german measles
smallpox
influenza
typhus
typhoid
cholera
tuberculosis

And contrary to popular myth, there is only one (contested) event where disease may have been intentionally transmitted to Indians for warfare purposes.

You left out starvation.

Some U.S. government officials even promoted the destruction of the bison herds as a way to defeat their Native American enemies, who were resisting the takeover of their lands by white settlers.

Soon, military commanders were ordering their troops to kill buffalo — not for food, but to deny Native Americans their own source of food. One general believed that buffalo hunters “did more to defeat the Indian nations in a few years than soldiers did in 50.”

www.pbs.org...

Now we just starve the enemy out with sanctions until they're too weak to resist and then we "conquer" everything they used to own.

Leopards. Spots.