Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

reply to post by Druscilla

I personally see no evidence for 2, or 3, and don't accept these as necessarily legitimate explanations.

In my opinion, the evidence for these theories is the thousands of unexplained observations of craft making seemingly impossible maneuvers (too great for todays technology) while at the same time demonstrating what would seem to suggest intellegent control (flying in formation, pacing vehicles like cars or aircraft etc...)

Additionally, there are many credible close range observations, where the objects appear to be some sort of machine or vehicle. (there are also interesting sightings of small UFO exiting larger "mothership" UFOs)

The quality of each individual sighting may be somewhat lacking, but when one views the thousands of cases taken as a whole, the vast majority displaying surprising patterns repeated over and over again in separate sightings, the massive mountain of reports (in my opinion) is hard to dismiss.


The idea is, some intelligence is flying around in physical machines. The technology this intelligence possesses is far greater than what humans currently have. What can now explain the phenomenon, besides for some non-human intellegence?

Originally posted by Druscilla
I personally see no evidence for 2, or 3, and don't accept these as necessarily legitimate explanations.

Gotta run for now, but I would posit that "evidence of" and "evidence for" are two different things. No one has seen a black hole, but we postulated their existence from indirect evidence. Does that apply in this case? Maybe, maybe not.

HOWEVER, in the interest of open-mindedness, I suggest an option 4, and 5.

4. Rogue zero-oversight black ops government humans, just humans, conducting live in-the-wild tests of experimental technologies.
5. a Mixture of any 2 or more possible or probable explanations.

Yes, your item 4 is most assuredly a factor that has come into play here and there. It deserves attention in and of itself. Of course, it can't account for all the variables. Also, it doesn't necessarily conflict with the impetus of this thread either; as in maybe the rogues are in service to something larger?

Having said all that: You make my shortlist of ATS treasures. I always consider your words.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
I would be interested in hearing your opinions on UFOs interacting with the environment and leaving physical traces, such as these cases that investigator ted phillips has investigated:www.angelfire.com...

also, what are your thoughts on radar/visual sightings? it seems to me that these could not be caused by the human mind alone. (but really who knows? it IS possible)

Definitely plan to address your excellent questions at more length. For now, I will say that certain of the radar registers are seemingly better than others. They also, imo, happen to be the closest we have to physical evidence.

Problem is, it's no secret that our gubmint--in line with what Dru suggests methinks--have been known to not only "spoof" returns, but to test said spoofing against our own defenses and those of other countries.

Hey, let me thank you again though for bringing thoughts of substance to this thread! I appreciate all the posters that take the time to explain WHY they feel the way they do. It forces me to think and that's always a good thing.

reply to post by thesearchfortruth


First of all, let me apologize for not being clear. I hadn't switched gears from Space Alien contact experience phenomenon, and was still referring solely to that.

UFOs, on the other hand, are a distinct and separate phenomenon, often attributed in relation to the former, but, in all actuality, not necessarily being so.

As to UFOs, and just UFOs, in only describing the 5% or fewer cases of genuine Unknowns, I maintain a stance of being perfectly happy with a classification of Unknown.

I do, however, according somewhat recent discoveries in natural phenomenon previous unknown at the start and more active interest periods of the phenomenon (sprites, plasma balls, geological piezoelectric discharge - Earth Lights, etc.), favor the potential for a little more "boring" explanation of previously unclassified natural phenomenon for at least some fraction of that 5% of genuine Unknowns.

Unclassified unknown natural phenomenon could very well appear to act intelligently where such appearance is just that, and appearance, or seeming. We, people, are insanely guilty of personifying anything and everything we can get our eyeballs on, and ascribing characteristics of intelligent control to a non-intelligent unknown wouldn't be a first.

As to the other left over percentage in the 5%, there very well could be aliens, but, also, since this value X is still an unknown, all we have right now is that daunting unknown to stare at and speculate on.

Next to people, holding a classification of Unknown is the only other consistent, yet bothersome data point in the interrogation of this subject.

Thus, UFOs = Unknown where such value could really be anything, including aliens, time travelers, black ops, interdimensional visitors, natural phenomenon, The Matrix, reality hiccups, psychic manifestations, Gods, Demons, Angels, whichever, whatever.

As stated, however, I'm personally in favor of a more 'boring' explanation from a realistic stand point, but, I'd certainly rather enjoy it as well as being a little upset if UFOs did indeed turn out to be aliens (I'd be upset AT the aliens for being such sneaky buggers and desire to have some rather pointed words with them for being so sneaky , not at myself for being wrong. I rather like being proven wrong sometimes )

reply to post by thesearchfortruth

In my opinion, the evidence for these theories is the thousands of unexplained observations of craft making seemingly impossible maneuvers (too great for todays technology) while at the same time demonstrating what would seem to suggest intellegent control

You just described what I saw one night with friends and strangers. Mixing the phenomenon of ghostly or spiritual beings and UFOs in my opinion is a result of people trying to understand what they are seeing from their jaded (religious) or ignorant perspective. Its outside their experience so they classify it from denial and labels.

As an example, what do Mack Trucks have to do with ghosts? One is physical technology and the other spirit plane.

We are definitely going to see some extraordinary ish as a whole within the next 10-40 years.

Originally posted by uncommitted

Originally posted by ObservingYou
reply to post by uncommitted

 

All I'm saying is that I saw a small, black saucer 'sitting' in the sky 15ft away from me.
It sat there for 4 minutes or so before slowly going away.

It was watching me watching IT.

I was NOT drunk/high/hallucinating and I don't THINK I'm schizophrenic

So... Aliens/Demons/Government were watching me, watching them - I don't care which one YOU pick - but I'm fairly certain the government wouldn't waste their 'anti grav' technology on little old me, and as far as I'm aware, no demons got any reason to watchin me either.

********************************************************************************************************************************
That's why it's so painful to hear all you skeptics BANG ON AND ON.

I saw with mine own eye's - therefore your constant blibbering about lens flares/swamp gas/ and strange birds just make me pee my pants aha.

edit on 3-7-2013 by ObservingYou because: (no reason given)

I hope you've managed to change your pants, soiled ones are so not a good look. The only people who mention swamp gas are people thinking they are being ironic or in someway clever. I'm fairly certain in the history of ufology it's only been used once, and on that occasion it may actually have been a factor due to location.

Lens flare is often used for photos and with good reason, your lack of understanding the effect it can show in a photo is perhaps down to your own bias? A bird shape caught in flight - likewise in a photo, but I guess you don't want to acknowledge what doesn't support your belief?

You say you saw a black saucer watching you (IT???) - good for you. Out of interest, how did you calculate its size and therefore its distance? Please don't tell me you have been an expert at gauging the size of a black saucer for over 50 years and therefore you know what you saw, it's size and its distance but I've a funny feeling you would have. Do you think saucers actually see? Did it wave? What actions did it exhibit to show it was in some way watching you as an individual? Perhaps there was an ant sitting a few inches away from you that the saucer was actually involved in a very deep conversation with and you just missed it.

Pardon the lighthearted response, I'm sure you can take it as well as give it..... probably.

Dude, I'm well versed on the swamp gas story

Good for me? Yea, it was good for me - that was my wake up call

My first UFO experience is detailed else where on this site, many other forums, and on a local (yet distinguished) UFOlogy site.

I'll share my story with you via U2U if you request such.

I know what I saw (like the documentary )

And for all the pussy footing around it, where are we progressing?

reply to post by The GUT

As a Paranormal Investigator I have to say that I can't see any evidence that UFO/other worldly beings are in any way connected to Demons etc. Do I think that life doesn't exist elsewhere? Off course not that would be very naive of anyone to think that if not a little egotistical. Does Ufology fall under the term Paranormal? Well yes off course it does but do I think that they are connected to Demons etc? No not in the slightest.. I have neither seen nor ready any properly researched material that would suggest this...
Just my opinion..

I think the biggest mistake people can make regarding this stuff is assigning to it the quality of "evil."

Ignorant and fearful people might well label something they don't understand as evil, and blame it for a variety of ills. But it's just a moral judgment, and has nothing to do with anything inherent in the phenomenon.

Does anyone have any idea how it would even work if there was a dimension that occupied the same space we occupy now, but you couldn't see the inhabitants of said dimension?

I have heard this theory many times, and I have seen videos such as Carl Sagan's flat-landers video trying to explain it, but I guess I still fail to understand how it would work.

Are we talking beings of light who have somehow trascended space and time, or are we talking about people like us??

reply to post by JayinAR


To 1 its related to the frequency they are on as well as you. And so if you vibrated on their frequency you would perhaps tune in. Which may require meditation to slow or increase your frequency. In short take left and right hand place them side by side finger tips to finger tips open fingers and relate left hand to your frequency and right to another's and as you move your hands fingers back and forth thru each other this =symbolizes same frequency now shake left hand a little why moving back and forth and no longer in tune or out of sync with frequency each dimension. This is a subjective share good question

reply to post by The GUT

Personally I am leaning toward the interdimensional entity hypothesis, the primary reason being that "UFO" sightings appear to have been observed, and these observations recorded, throughout human history,i.e they did not have their genesis at Roswell.

However, I also firmly believe that some of the sightings that have been recorded since WW2 are classified aircraft projects from a number of countries.

I also believe that if a major study were to be undertaken on the Earth's lay lines and pyramids/stone circles, it would show that this network is the power source for a great deal of these interdimensional "craft"

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


But see, that's the thing though...how do you know that?
If it were that simple, we should be able to create technology that would allow us to phase in and of dimensions rather easily.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think changing frequencies would work so easily.
If you wire two generators to each other andrun them at different frequencies, feeding one another, they will each meet in the middle and run at a compromise. One won't just match the other.

I think it is the same concept as binural resonance.

Originally posted by JayinAR
Does anyone have any idea how it would even work if there was a dimension that occupied the same space we occupy now, but you couldn't see the inhabitants of said dimension?

I have heard this theory many times, and I have seen videos such as Carl Sagan's flat-landers video trying to explain it, but I guess I still fail to understand how it would work.

Are we talking beings of light who have somehow trascended space and time, or are we talking about people like us??

edit on 3-7-2013 by JayinAR because: (no reason given)

I would suggest that in their own dimension(s),these beings/entities have real physical substance it is us who are trapped in our 5 dimensional world who cannot comprehend what it is we are observing, much like a 2 dimensional entity would have no comprehension of us.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

But see, that's the thing though...how do you know that?
If it were that simple, we should be able to create technology that would allow us to phase in and of dimensions rather easily.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think changing frequencies would work so easily.
If you wire two generators to each other andrun them at different frequencies, feeding one another, they will each meet in the middle and run at a compromise. One won't just match the other.

I think it is the same concept as binural resonance.

in a more micro level visualize all atoms within YOU and THEM your home zone of existence and theirs. now move atoms near each other you see protons neutrons & electrons (using this matter example) and now consider the atoms of you them and homes vibrating on different speeds/frequencies. The space or separation between you and them and homes is the space within the atoms able to be resonated upon. And now slow or speed atoms to same frequency to interact or detach disconnect...

Sorry if not clear

reply to post by nake13


Then here is my question.
If they have a physical self, they are like us. If they are like us, and occupy the same space, why don't we see indirect evidence?
For instance, do they build homes? Basketball arenas? Football stadiums?

If this were true, I would expect to see things like excavation projects spring up out of nowhere.

ex:

look at a fan and its blades speed the fan you see less of blades when in high speed like blurr, slow fan you see more of blades.

Observe fan speed to your actual body speed frequency you cannot stick finger in blades w/out it interacting with your finger unless your finger is moving at same pace as fan blade... otherwise existing fan blade at fast pace unseen yet there...

reply to post by Druscilla


Thanks for the reply,

As to UFOs, and just UFOs, in only describing the 5% or fewer cases of genuine Unknowns, I maintain a stance of being perfectly happy with a classification of Unknown.

This is probably a good idea. It seems even to me, as a UFO 'believer', we may be overconfidently jumping to early conclusions when we still have little data. You're being happy with an "Unknown" classification is probably a very wise idea.

Nevertheless, the data would seem to suggest some kind of mechanical phenomenon, not any kind of natural one like your ball lightning/sprites etc... And as I said earlier, assuming the phenomenon does have some kind of intelligence, behind it, the capabilities of these aircraft seem far beyond anything humans have now or ever have had, especially way back in the 1940s and 50s.

We, people, are insanely guilty of personifying anything and everything we can get our eyeballs on, and ascribing characteristics of intelligent control to a non-intelligent unknown wouldn't be a first.

I concede, in some cases you may be correct here, but certainly not all. Additionally, I would point to the claims of humanoid beings observed inside craft/near landed craft as evidence against a natural phenomenon and for intelligent control.

As to the other left over percentage in the 5%, there very well could be aliens, but, also, since this value X is still an unknown, all we have right now is that daunting unknown to stare at and speculate on.

Agreed. Unlike some debunkers (i consider you a skeptic, not a debunker), you keep a very open mind.

reply to post by The GUT


Thanks for posting this! It all looks very interesting and I hope to get to it and catch up on the thread over the holiday.