Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by Druscilla

I'll maintain the stance supported in peer reviewed studies regarding space alien contact experiences

Could you provide the references.

The following contains some fun reading:

I don't, of course, expect anyone to actually read any of these

Guess what. I am reading them now, and will be critiquing them

Right off the bat. This research purely focuses on alien abduction.
Still reading the first reference

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


As I stated earlier, there is an important DISTINCTION between UFO phenomenon, and Space Alien Contact Phenomenon.

When making statements regarding primary attribution with the Psychological model, I'm fairly sure I made it clear that the Psychological Model tests most significantly with Space Alien Contact phenomenon.

Please stop confusing UFOs and Space Alien Contact as being the same interchangeable things.
I refer to Psychology as playing a primary role in Space Alien Contact.

UFOs are an entirely different and separate subject where some of the same MAY apply, but, at the same time, I have said that I do not deny that there IS SOMETHING with the UFO phenomenon.

reply to post by UncleVinnys


Well added commentary Glad to see you on board at ATS.

Now about John Mack, we both know he never went out and suggested that these beings were for "good" and here to "help" either.

The age old quote, "what's normal for the spider is chaos to the fly."

I don't think these beings are necessarily good/evil at all... I think we need to remove that entire paradigm from the picture to begin to understand their intentions. Even then, we aren't left with many warm thoughts: let's be honest, their bedside manner is beyond rude.

As to whether they're some sort of extrapolation of our own minds, then that's fine too --- we've only begun to understand consciousness, and I have high doubts the phenomena isn't related to it.
I think that's why we're all so fascinated by this (besides those of us who've had experiences impressed on it already) --- it's that we realize this isn't just about some visitation.... This is technology, understanding of the unknown to the highest level. The deeper I think on the subject the more I realize it is the most important discovery in our own evolution.

Reminds me of flat land, or plato's shadow... Too soon do we wait for something to take the responsibility for us as a species; we've graduated to the toilet and now need to learn to wipe our own asses..

The Construction of Space Alien Abduction Memories by Clark and Loftus

1. This is not original research, but a literature survey.
2. This is a classic case of "I have a theory, I will search the literature to find articles to support my theory/hypothesis."
3. No experiments were performed on Abductees to see how susceptible they might be to false memories
4. The shopping mall study has serious holes in it
5. Purely looks at "abductees" that go under hypnotic regression to recall their experience
6. Does not consider the fact that quite a few abductees have vivid memories of the event and do not need hypnotic regression
7. Does not consider that at least one case that I am aware of, witnesses have seen the event occur.

Reading the second one now

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

As I stated earlier, there is an important DISTINCTION between UFO phenomenon, and Space Alien Contact Phenomenon.

When making statements regarding primary attribution with the Psychological model, I'm fairly sure I made it clear that the Psychological Model tests most significantly with Space Alien Contact phenomenon.

How about read the title of the thread.
Does it say Alien Abduction?

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

As I stated earlier, there is an important DISTINCTION between UFO phenomenon, and Space Alien Contact Phenomenon.

When making statements regarding primary attribution with the Psychological model, I'm fairly sure I made it clear that the Psychological Model tests most significantly with Space Alien Contact phenomenon.

How about read the title of the thread.
Does it say Alien Abduction?

I would suggest you read the OP where there's definite allusion to aliens, and you might very well while attending to your enlightenment look up and review the definition of UFOlogy which, as a subject of study holds an umbrella over Space Alien Contact phenomenon.

Further, if you thought the aspect of UFOlogy covering Space Alien Contact phenomenon, plus my commentary on such were out of bounds, it's a little late to show that kind of rude attitude when you've already engaged in that aspect of the discussion.

Regardless the matter, I'm fairly certain I've made my point in regard to at least the Space Alien Contact aspect of UFOlogy. Others have also contributed with their own opinions that Space Aliens are the products of Humanity's imagination.

Once again, I don't deny that there is indeed a UFO phenomenon. That's different.
I don't, however, associate the UFO phenomenon with Space Aliens.
I accept the UFO phenomenon as currently UNKOWN.

reply to post by The GUT


S&F great post OP. This made me think of Scientology and the doctorine of L.R.Hubbard. Hubbard was activily involved with satanism and scientology is a UFO religion.. connection.

There are intresting interview of L.R.Hubbards son L.R.Hubbard Jr about his fathers intrests and scientologys connection to satanism, and friendship with Alex Crowley.. this is just a part the whole interview can be found in youtube.



Its an old interview so bare with the quality

Originally posted by The GUT


Accomplished Occultists are very familiar with the true nature of the beings who sometimes pose as E.T.

Aleister Crowley's Lam & the Little Grey Men

As I posted in another thread:

The Crowley claim is based on the speculation of one person - Kenneth Grant. The drawing to which you refer was entitled "Lam". Aleister Crowley never claimed that particular drawing to be a depiction of "Aiwass", that Lam and Aiwasss were one and the same, nor that either were extraterrestrial. These conclusions were drawn by Grant in his 1973 book "Aleister Crowley & the Hidden God".

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

As I stated earlier, there is an important DISTINCTION between UFO phenomenon, and Space Alien Contact Phenomenon.

When making statements regarding primary attribution with the Psychological model, I'm fairly sure I made it clear that the Psychological Model tests most significantly with Space Alien Contact phenomenon.

How about read the title of the thread.
Does it say Alien Abduction?

I would suggest you read the OP where there's definite allusion to aliens, and you might very well while attending to your enlightenment look up and review the definition of UFOlogy which, as a subject of study holds an umbrella over Space Alien Contact phenomenon.

Just because 99% of alien abduction stories maybe obvious fantasy, doesn't mean the whole of ufology is a load of BS. Not discounting that as a real possibility either though.

I think you may get your point across better, if the context under which these quotes were said. Anyone here at ATS, long knows how often quotes... even the ones people snip from their own posts, get taken out of context and twisted into an entirely different meaning to fit the quoters agenda.

That being the case I'm not in the choir so this preaching doesn't have my ear to fall on. Just because a persons name is attached to the quote, without knowing the actual content that the quote was made under... makes whatever conglomerate derived to make whatever point utterly baseless...

Show the full context of these quotes or you are doing these people quoted a disservice by making them conspirators in whatever agenda it is you are trying to get across... and I seriously doubt any of them are going to show up and set it straight, so as a "researcher" that task falls on you, or someone else to come along a set the record straight... it appears you are ready for such an encounter by your OP, so I doubt many will entrap themselves in such an argument of debate after reading this post.

So cite the context of these quotes... and you may have your self an honest dialog and debate of the topic on your hands.

Sleep Paralysis, Sexual Abuse, and Space Alien Abduction by McNally and Clancy
First off, this is a much better paper.

1. Main criticism is that it only considers abductees that report being abducted while asleep, when many abductees report being abducted while driving etc.

I'll read the other one later. Thanks for providing the links. You should consider starting a thread it would be nice contribution.

Originally posted by The GUT
My goal here is not to make a statement of alleged fact, but, rather, to consider the observations of some great minds. Yeah, to be honest, however, I find the following statements and quotations to be thought provoking to the point of revelatory.

The following article makes some interesting points about the ancient civilizations of the Egyptians, Babylonians, Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas that refutes the Ancient Aliens hypothesis with one that makes more sense to me.

Before you criticize, consider that most of the quotes below are not only from secular authors, but are also from folk that most likely have more credentials than yourself. If you have greater credentials/scholarship than those listed, please state them. Not that so-called "credentials" are the be-all-end-all, but you should come prepared to defend your point or show your ignorance.

I don't necessarily agree with all the author's talking points, but generally find them revealing.

Demons in Alien's Clothing

Accomplished Occultists are very familiar with the true nature of the beings who sometimes pose as E.T.

Aleister Crowley's Lam & the Little Grey Men

Adam Gorightly also expands on Magic(k) and UFOs in the following excellent article.

Ritual Magic, Mind Control and the UFO Phenomenon

Dr. David Clarke presents a very balanced look at the subject in this Fortean Times article:

Flying Saucers From Hell

"But the UFO phenomenon simply does not behave like extraterrestrial visitors. It actually molds itself in order to fit a given culture."
- John Ankerberg, The Facts on UFOs and Other Supernatural Phenomena, p. 10

"We are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon which is largely indigenous to planet earth." 
- Brad Steiger, [cited in] Blue Book Files Released in Canadian UFO Report, Vol. 4, No. 4, 1977, p. 20

"One theory which can no longer be taken very seriously is that UFOs are interstellar spaceships." 
- Arthur C. Clarke, New York Times Book Review, 07/27/75

"There seems to be no evidence yet that any of these craft or beings originate from outer space." 
-Gordon Creighton, Official 1992 Flying Saucer Review Policy Statement

"A large part of the available UFO literature is closely linked with mysticism and the metaphysical. It deals with subjects like mental telepathy, automatic writing and invisible entities as well as phenomena like poltergeist [ghost] manifestation and 'possession.' Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena." 
- Lynn E. Catoe, UFOs and Related Subjects: USGPO, 1969; prepared under AFOSR Project Order 67-0002 and 68-0003

"UFO behaviour is more akin to magic than to physics as we know it... the modern UFOnauts and the demons of past days are probably identical." 
-Dr. Pierre Guerin, FSR Vol. 25, No. 1, p. 13-14

"The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon..." 
- John A. Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, p. 299

"A working knowledge of occult science...is indispensable to UFO investigation." 
-Trevor James, FSR Vol. 8, No. 1, p.10

"Studies of flying saucer cults repeatedly show that they are part of a larger occult social world." 
-Stupple & McNeece, 1979 MUFON UFO Symposium Proceedings, p. 49

More thought-provoking quotes Here

Then we have Jack Parsons:

The present age is under the influence of a force, in magical terminology, Horus. It's manifestations may be noted in the destruction of old institutions and ideas, the discovery and liberation of new energies, and a trend towards power governments, war, homosexuality, infantilism, and schizophrenia. ~ Jack Parsons

One thing we can be sure of: We live with a mystery that no simple explanation can elucidate, Peace my brothers and sisters.

edit on 2-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Of course they have supernatural abilities..cause most ETs are spirit beings or 4th, 5th density and other dimensional beings.......We humans too, are spirits or souls occupying a human body, and the Spritual Realms manages the evolution of indivdual souls.........There are many planets vibrating at different dimensions, and ours is the most physical planet populated by carbon-based lifeform bodies, with the intelligent species(us), souls occupying physical bodies. Souls enter bodies while the fetus in womb..

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

As I stated earlier, there is an important DISTINCTION between UFO phenomenon, and Space Alien Contact Phenomenon.

Seems to me that either this distinction ignores the testimony of the experiencer or by now this particular and specific affliction should have been isolated, named and have a treatment programme.

After all, many do describe a very similar type of experience. Maybe the distinction should be between the "typical" whilst sleeping "abduction" and the contact experience such as this for example ?

In making your distinction I think the importance is that it makes it so very easy to classify the two differently - UFO's (because there is authentic proof of a phenomenon - and there have been scientific studies ?) is an unknown, whereas contact is all explainable as a product of the mind.

Surely if accepting there is something "real" in the UFO phenomenon then the most likely explanation (given the evidence available) is that these are intelligently controlled ET craft. Why is it then such a stretch to accept the possibility the craft may actually be occupied and that contact and possibly abduction has occurred ?

reply to post by The GUT


Great post... thanks for sharing. This certainly represents a new point of view, for me anyway.

Originally posted by chunder

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

 

As I stated earlier, there is an important DISTINCTION between UFO phenomenon, and Space Alien Contact Phenomenon.

Seems to me that either this distinction ignores the testimony of the experiencer or by now this particular and specific affliction should have been isolated, named and have a treatment programme.

After all, many do describe a very similar type of experience. Maybe the distinction should be between the "typical" whilst sleeping "abduction" and the contact experience such as this for example ?

In making your distinction I think the importance is that it makes it so very easy to classify the two differently - UFO's (because there is authentic proof of a phenomenon - and there have been scientific studies ?) is an unknown, whereas contact is all explainable as a product of the mind.

Surely if accepting there is something "real" in the UFO phenomenon then the most likely explanation (given the evidence available) is that these are intelligently controlled ET craft. Why is it then such a stretch to accept the possibility the craft may actually be occupied and that contact and possibly abduction has occurred ?

Given that UFO phenomenon is purely something someone has seen in the sky they personally cannot identify, and given that we have evidence of terrestrial phenomena that is similar and can be explained, why is it the most likely explanation that they would be caused by intelligently controlled ET craft? Given that there is no actual evidence of this that can be proven, surely it is the least likely? The saying 'keep an open mind but don't let your brains fall out' comes into play here surely?

Originally posted by Druscilla

While I will continue to remain tacit regarding my academic and professional credentials, I'll maintain the stance supported in peer reviewed studies regarding space alien contact experiences that evidence suggests space alien contact experiences are largely the providence and result of Psychological Phenomenon.

These experiences may even be reliably replicated in the lab where no evidence of any real physical manifestation of anything that could be construed as 'paranormal', or 'interdimensional' have been logged in evidence.

Sleep Paralysis, Schizotype expression, as well as artificial drug induced expression of neurological states similar previous and others have been observed.

Many will disagree and even take offense to such, but, of all the sciences that have examined the UFO and Alien Abduction/contact/experience phenomenon, Psychology has been the most successful and possibly had the only successes out of any scientific examination of these phenomenons in reliably replicating and testing postulates successfully.
Thus, from a purely scientific standpoint, where reliable predictable replication of results that can be logged and peer reviewed with objectivity and very little 'interpretation' required, results coming from Psychology would strongly indicate a large portion of experiences in the wild as resulting from a person's own personal neurological state.
This would certainly account for social evolutions and perceptions over time among many other factors.

Yea, millions and millions of us are ALL hallucinating - LMAFO!

reply to post by uncommitted


All I'm saying is that I saw a small, black saucer 'sitting' in the sky 15ft away from me.
It sat there for 4 minutes or so before slowly going away.

It was watching me watching IT.

I was NOT drunk/high/hallucinating and I don't THINK I'm schizophrenic

So... Aliens/Demons/Government were watching me, watching them - I don't care which one YOU pick - but I'm fairly certain the government wouldn't waste their 'anti grav' technology on little old me, and as far as I'm aware, no demons got any reason to watchin me either.



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That's why it's so painful to hear all you skeptics BANG ON AND ON.

I saw with mine own eye's - therefore your constant blibbering about lens flares/swamp gas/ and strange birds just make me pee my pants aha.

I can't get behind the aliens as demons theory. I will ponder/entertain almost any theory but this one I just can't. I've tried. I've read some "scholarly" material on it. But it just seems as if it's a pseudo-scholarly argument by those who just can't part with their Abrahamic programming.