Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Further experimentation led to questioning the beings which eventually turn rather hostile when a certain line of questioning ensues.

Is that all the gods or just the gnostic archons? Did the line of questioning involve the Christian doctrine found in Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians concerning Jesus being the new top authority to whom all must bow to and obey?

During a 'past life' test I was able to manipulate the entire environment

Was this test conducted while you were alone, or was there a facilitator (hypnotist) present?

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Further experimentation led to questioning the beings which eventually turn rather hostile when a certain line of questioning ensues.

Is that all the gods or just the gnostic archons? Did the line of questioning involve the Christian doctrine found in Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians concerning Jesus being the new top authority to whom all must bow to and obey?

During a 'past life' test I was able to manipulate the entire environment

Was this test conducted while you were alone, or was there a facilitator (hypnotist) present?

Bacchus, Shiva, Apollo, Sanat Kumara, Thoth, and Hermes.

The first experimentation was private and the results were the several of these. Then I informed my lady at the time and past lives were presented in which I walked the desert with a caravan as a child. At which point I began testing my surroundings and found myself to be quite lucid however the 'experience' degraded. The environment condensed into my field of vision as the face of what is described as the archons. At that point the image of the caravan kept coming from their lips so I asked what authority they had.

During this process I had joined a series of esoteric minded communities and been present during meditations and others who came out saying they had visions of their past lives. So I began asking all the members if they had tried to treat it as a 'lucid dream' and question their surroundings to which the answer was a resounding NO and the members began ostracizing me for even suggesting what they were presented was not the whole truth. Throw in a few failed channeling sessions were I was testing my little theory about questioning authority and I had no choice but to leave the group.

They tried a few times to assist in a past life regression for myself which just resulted in headaches for them as I kept manipulating the image.

A memory is not something you can consciously change once remembered.

It was not the word Jesus but an image of the embodiment of his teachings would be a better explanation.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

I'm not familiar with all the characters you listed. If you take Bacchus to be Dionysus, I can pretty much say that he doesn't go along with attempts to link him with Jesus. So rather than beating a dead horse, it's like beating a non-existent horse to try to link them.

as the face of what is described as the archons. At that point the image of the caravan kept coming from their lips so I asked what authority they had.

This seems like a process of the archons weaving a story, rather than an instant remembering of an event.

the members began ostracizing me for even suggesting what they were presented was not the whole truth.

Some groups!

A memory is not something you can consciously change once remembered.

So have you had instant memories from someone else's life? If so, do you think that an instant memory is more trustworthy than a lucid dream process type memory?

I've never done group esoteric practices, so I don't know how that would influence things one way or the other, except that forces can be amplified that way, a group did that against me one time.

reply to post by pthena


The instant memory phenomena I am aware of, however they usually occur after a regression. I have not encountered anyone who claimed to experience them without a conscious session.

As for the past life, it was not just once but began as extremely realistic experiences which I could smell, sweat, and were incredibly boring just dragging my feet across the wasteland. The thought of testing it as a dream did not occur in the slightest as the imagery was so incredibly believable.

The closest to this for myself were more along the lines of a flash of imagery of a being in a red scarf engaging in a dance of movement I couldn't even comprehend.

Other experiences I have had similar to this would be during sparring sessions when the rhythm got going and after a while in the zone every feint or strike would leave me with profound deja vu.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

I have not encountered anyone who claimed to experience them without a conscious session.

I suppose that I really should sort things out in my own time before making any claims.

I'm getting the impression that these lucid dream processes are only as real and true as say, getting deeply into a really good historical novel. As for flash memories, I haven't quite made up my mind. I tentatively hold that they are memories floating around with a certain frequency that matches a certain individual frequency at the moment.

during sparring sessions when the rhythm got going and after a while in the zone every feint or strike would leave me with profound deja vu.

Isn't that the purpose of physical training? The muscles themselves remember the moves.

reply to post by pthena


Okay you've got me on the muscle memory, I have no explanation for it other than most likely a byproduct of intense focus ( I was sparring partner for a distinguished mixed martial artist ) and things getting going to quick to process them.

Memories floating around sounds interesting.

Have you looked into the 'hard problem' of consciousness or the 'binding problem' of neurology? There is currently no explanation for the origin of thoughts, only the effects of experiencing them in one way or another. It is entirely possible that consciousness is separate from physical reality. Very similar to the problems presented by Plato millenia ago.

By the current understanding of physics there can be no random thought or inspiration as all matter must operate within the system and is thus predestined to occur (including the multiverse theory).

That is why I was so intrigued by the ancient ideas of the spirit descending into matter, especially after learning about the process of illumination found in so many societies.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Memories floating around sounds interesting.

I've sorted it out a bit.

One was as a native American dancing with a steel knife. Kind of like your red scarf. I later added embellishments to "flesh out the story", all romanticized, tragic tearjerker of a story.

Another was as a white man being dragged to death behind a horse for being a renegade (White man living like a native American). I embellished that in my head to being caught while heroically smuggling guns to the resistance.

(Serious deja vu moment right there)

as extremely realistic experiences which I could smell, sweat, and were incredibly boring just dragging my feet across the wasteland.

Yeah, when you're wearing boiled leather armor in the blazing sun and the sweat causes that rubbing just under the arm pits, and then some sand gets in there. The kind of stuff you'd just as soon leave out of a pleasant dream.

Have you looked into the 'hard problem' of consciousness or the 'binding problem' of neurology? There is currently no explanation for the origin of thoughts, only the effects of experiencing them in one way or another.

That's something I have to bone up on.

It is entirely possible that consciousness is separate from physical reality. Very similar to the problems presented by Plato millenia ago.

I figure there are enough people going with Platonic and Neo-Platonic theory, that's why I'm taking an Epicurean approach, fill the void there, so to speak.

By the current understanding of physics there can be no random thought or inspiration as all matter must operate within the system and is thus predestined to occur

I think that the unmeasured field of Aether holds the key. Rather than being outside of the dome of heaven, as was thought in old times, it's right around us and in us. Therefore, as acting agents we do effect the movements of aether, We can and do add order within chaos. That's my working hypothesis.

I'm going to look at some fireworks now.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What's telling is the fact that you state Christianity cannot be changed yet can't give me a reason why.

You got excited,didn't you? Ok,time to answer it.

The reason is simple,faith...and now add to that what I've said before,that Christians can't be bought/intimidated/persuaded/tricked.

I guess the 40,000 denominations that have sprung up since the RCC isn't considered "change" to you?

Most of them were about details such as expressions etc but the more important thing is that they weren't shy about them like Gnostics who've tried again and again with sneaky ways to inject their beliefs in Christianity (and failed),with the Gospel of Thomas for example. The most recent effort I personally know (excluding ATS) is about the gospel of Jesu's wife,made with parts of the Gospel of Thomas.

As do you.

Err....I already tried once to end this but you wouldn't drop it. Anyway,I've already "wasted" too much of your time and I stayed way more than I actually wanted.

Have fun!

reply to post by Oceanborn


Faith isn't a very good answer. I could have faith that OJ didn't kill that guy and his wife, but that doesn't mean he didn't.

I think you have been intimidated/persuaded/tricked already by believing you will burn forever (intimidated) if you don't believe a guy rose from the dead (persuaded/tricked).

Hell is a pretty good conversion tactic. It's kind of like how torturers convince their victims to give up information by threats of torture.

I personally believe that every time you die, you just get born again if God wills it. Maybe you might go to "heaven" for a little bit but I'm not sure what heaven is like or where it is. I just strongly believe that this life is not the final destination and God might have more lives waiting for you.

reply to post by InvisibleAlien


I believe existence itself is heaven. Everything is perfect for life in the universe. If it weren't, we wouldn't be here right now. They say that heaven is perfect, well in my opinion the universe is perfect in every single way.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Oceanborn

 

Faith isn't a very good answer. I could have faith that OJ didn't kill that guy and his wife, but that doesn't mean he didn't.

I think you have been intimidated/persuaded/tricked already by believing you will burn forever (intimidated) if you don't believe a guy rose from the dead (persuaded/tricked).

Hell is a pretty good conversion tactic. It's kind of like how torturers convince their victims to give up information by threats of torture.

edit on 5-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

YES!!! great point.......
Faith has become the panacea cure all and the stock retort to the unanswerable instead of .. I don't know.The fact is faith is very important because it is the catalyst however it is not the finished process....Knowing is...and knowing isn't an all encompassing event as in NOW I know EVERYTHING or Now I am saved(and you ain't nah nah nah nah nah!)Knowing (not the knowledge itself) is a process that is slowly revealed like the layers of an infinite onion being peeled back(Glass onions don't work well for that!)

Yahoshua said something that is very very very important that is always misunderstood for many reasons.One aspect of it is this partial quote.

The Truth will set you free.

That is not what Yahoshua said,He said

"IF you CONTINUE in my word[he doesn't mean the bible]then you are my disciples indeed; And Then you will KNOW the truth, and the truth will make you free.

There is zero in there about faith.It is knowing.Yet no one can know until they believe but belief is not knowing ...that is their own petard the religious hang themselves from.EVERYTHING is faith and they don't know because they are "always learning and never able to come to the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth".I don't judge them because it is God who sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie(not understand the truth) .

They cannot perceive that the scriptures talk of evil men it is not about the heathen "sinners" of sex and drugs and rock n roll....It is the self righteous Religious..the pharisees of all ages.They are the ones that have been sent a strong delusion.They BELIEVE in their religion..not KNOW God.God is not words in a book or doctrines or studying the scriptures like a Berean to PROVE IF Paul is right.That is the wide path that leads to the wide gate of destruction (no not HELL).That is the irony of it all.They accuse the heathens of unrighteousness and that they need to be "saved " from HELL while condemning(judging) themselves .

I guarantee they can't see it all..but many can(some right here in this thread) as plain as day.The religious will pull their hairs out and curse me because they believe what I wrote is blaspheme.Yet I didn't say it .It is all in the scriptures.It is they that accuse themselves not me.I have empathy for them having been in that camp.I am forever indebted to God for freeing me(I did NOTHING!).I don't know why the religious are like that.

Personally I wish there was a simple prayer like they believe that made all of their madness disappear... but it doesn't.Matthew 7 is very very important and again very ill perceived by the religious carnal mind..It covers a LOT of ground... it is a HUGE mirror.I have absolute confidence (know) that God will deliver them.They aren't going to hell even though they condemn others by their judgments.Faith is good... .to know is .....gooder.

Originally posted by Rex282

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Oceanborn

 

Faith isn't a very good answer. I could have faith that OJ didn't kill that guy and his wife, but that doesn't mean he didn't.

I think you have been intimidated/persuaded/tricked already by believing you will burn forever (intimidated) if you don't believe a guy rose from the dead (persuaded/tricked).

Hell is a pretty good conversion tactic. It's kind of like how torturers convince their victims to give up information by threats of torture.

edit on 5-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

YES!!! great point.......
Faith has become the panacea cure all and the stock retort to the unanswerable instead of .. I don't know.The fact is faith is very important because it is the catalyst however it is not the finished process....Knowing is...and knowing isn't an all encompassing event as in NOW I know EVERYTHING or Now I am saved(and you ain't nah nah nah nah nah!)Knowing (not the knowledge itself) is a process that is slowly revealed like the layers of an infinite onion being peeled back(Glass onions don't work well for that!)

Yahoshua said something that is very very very important that is always misunderstood for many reasons.One aspect of it is this partial quote.

The Truth will set you free.

That is not what Yahoshua said,He said

"IF you CONTINUE in my word[he doesn't mean the bible]then you are my disciples indeed; And Then you will KNOW the truth, and the truth will make you free.

There is zero in there about faith.It is knowing.Yet no one can know until they believe but belief is not knowing ...that is their own petard the religious hang themselves from.EVERYTHING is faith and they don't know because they are "always learning and never able to come to the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth".I don't judge them because it is God who sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie(not understand the truth) .

They cannot perceive that the scriptures talk of evil men it is not about the heathen "sinners" of sex and drugs and rock n roll....It is the self righteous Religious..the pharisees of all ages.They are the ones that have been sent a strong delusion.They BELIEVE in their religion..not KNOW God.God is not words in a book or doctrines or studying the scriptures like a Berean to PROVE IF Paul is right.That is the wide path that leads to the wide gate of destruction (no not HELL).That is the irony of it all.They accuse the heathens of unrighteousness and that they need to be "saved " from HELL while condemning(judging) themselves .

I guarantee they can't see it all..but many can(some right here in this thread) as plain as day.The religious will pull their hairs out and curse me because they believe what I wrote is blaspheme.Yet I didn't say it .It is all in the scriptures.It is they that accuse themselves not me.I have empathy for them having been in that camp.I am forever indebted to God for freeing me(I did NOTHING!).I don't know why the religious are like that.

Personally I wish there was a simple prayer like they believe that made all of their madness disappear... but it doesn't.Matthew 7 is very very important and again very ill perceived by the religious carnal mind..It covers a LOT of ground... it is a HUGE mirror.I have absolute confidence (know) that God will deliver them.They aren't going to hell even though they condemn others by their judgments.Faith is good... .to know is .....gooder.

edit on 5-7-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

Rex, here is a simple prayer you can pray.
Ask God to help you believe His revelation. He wouldn't create us and fail to share why or reveal His plan. He has...there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Eph 4:5).

You are doing nothing but rejecting believers now or as you call them, the Religious. God doesn't want you to do this and you can't get into Heaven thinking God approves of whatever you wish to believe. To speak the Truth of the faith is not condemning anyone, the opposite. Hoping they will investigate the faith, pray, have a change of heart.

Read more about the faith. Search with questions regarding the faith, first type the words Catholic Apologetics. In our lifetime I am sure, whatever Heaven's "soon" is, God is going to invite the entire world to become Catholic. Remember, remember, okay? Tell yourself, I desire the Eucharist and when God confirms the Truth of Jesus' presence in the Eucharist during the Great Warning, you will accept this the Truth.


God bless you Rex,



colbe

Thanks colbe,

I appreciate that you are not a vindictive arguer who belittles folks however that doesn't make your religious doctrines less wrong.Of all the posters I've read at ATS you are the most boged down in religion.You sound like the robots many fear to be "if" God gets a hold of them.However I know that is not the case.You are seeking for something you won't find and what you think you have found is not The Truth.It is very apparent to many but not you.Your religion has built a taller wall around you in that you don't respond to people with honesty of a conviction but with doctrines and religious agendas pushing a churches religion.

I know of your church doctrines and that they are false.They will save no one in any shape or form.Their sole purpose is to enslave you deeper ...to cure you like a "vaccine" of religion which you appear to have a severe case of.I am not trying to convince you of the Truth ....it is impossible.God will cause even the religious who believe they already know him to eventual know him in another age.

A church or religion cannot know the Truth nor save anyone.God has caused them to search the scripture thinking that in them they have life but there is no life in neither reading and studying the scriptures or a believing religions doctrine.It is all the vanity of man.

Mans disease of sin(imperfection) is religion.Man falsely believes they can make themselves better BY religion.Gods purpose NOW is not making man better but delivering them from the valley of the shadow of death.The veil over their eyes(metaphor) that they are the masters of their own destiny and reality.Religion blinds man further to believe doctrines of men make them better and bring them closer to God when it does the opposite.

My desire is that "the many are called" could see that Truth ...now ...however ...I know they can't.The religious are stoned cold blind to anything of God.Those they call gentiles or unbelievers are the first to see.God has already removed religion-religion from them and working a different process and on a different religion (all is religion....belief).Religion-religion is the most viral and vile of the religion disease because the patient is completely unaware of their ever worsening condition and sees no need for treatment.

My suggestion to you is to cease your religious writings....and especially to me unless you have a honest question.Your religion is not The Truth and has nothing in me.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


so since you had an experience on the astral (which is what it sounds like - manipulating the environ) that means that reincarnation is false? if someone gives you wrong directions to their home, do you conclude their house doesn't exist? btw, memories can be altered, consciously and unconsciously. or is every memory a perfect, objective record?

your logic throughout this entire thread seems extremely faulty. you act as if no one addresses your criticisms yet you haven't actually addressed any of the things I've said here. you simply respond with another question about another subject. I don't feel like you are here to have an actual discussion...

just because you speak "mystic"(?) language doesn't mean you understand it.

apparently you study martial arts. you remind me of naïve mid-level practitioners - you know enough to think you know enough, but not enough to know that you don't know enough.

I have conscious memories of past lives. no hypnotism or regression. I remember them like I remember what happened last night.

and you didn't scare me off the thread. obviously.

reply to post by ultimafule


First of all you never asked me any questions which I did not answer . . .

Now I know the difference between your standard astral experience and a 'past life' experience; the point I was making was that I have yet to find any literature or persons who made an attempt to manipulate that environment, they merely accepted it passively as truth.

Why not share you 'past life' experience and inform the thread whether you made any attempts to treat it as an astral experience?

Don't pretend you know a thing about me in terms of MMA or the esoteric. As far as scaring you away from the thread I have yet to see you make another attempt to justify your conspiracy theories surrounding the meaning of symbolism in the Bible with actual evidence, its all just opinion.

-FBB

as I said, I have fully conscious memories of several past life experiences. I can attempt to manipulate them and the results would be the same as manipulating my memory of what I ate for lunch today. my interpretation of biblical symbols is just that - my interpretation. as you say it's all just opinion - yours included.

and I don't pretend to know a thing about you in terms of MMA. I was using an example to explain how I see your arguments regarding occult symbology.

off- topic but, as much as I love MMA, so few have a traditional martial arts background. too many brawling wrasslers IMHO. but they usually don't last long, which is why I think Anderson Silva is bored with it now. still sad he lost the title...

reply to post by ultimafule


How did you come by your 'past life' memories?

Anderson threw the fight, it was beyond obvious once he kissed Weidman. Let me tell you speaking as someone who has been involved on the inside that ever since the Fertita's and Abu Dhabi govt. invested in the UFC many title matches have been rigged. They also use lame ass symbolic gestures in all of those matches.

EDIT
Did you meet your 'higher self' during your 'past life' experiences or during your 'enlightenment'?

What about "false memory?" A dear friend, her brother accused his father of things not true. And not
until years later did the brother understand it was all "false memory." The family went through hell.

The "past lives" business sounds the same. Just wondering since I never experienced memory of a past life.

Originally posted by colbe


What about "false memory?" A dear friend, her brother accused his father of things not true. And not
until years later did the brother understand it was all "false memory." The family went through hell.

The "past lives" business sounds the same. Just wondering since I never experienced memory of a past life.

I think this is an accurate description seeing as the 'past life' of the OP involved them being one of some 14 children of their current daughter.

There are many cases just like the one you cited which follow a similar path but are likely confused with a 'past life' due to the various psychological states of the individuals involved.