I Converted A Catholic To Atheism

reply to post by wildtimes


Thank you for returning. We need a voice of reason in here. But maybe you don't quite fit the bill...

Glad to have you back.

reply to post by anthonycooper

I freely chose to be an atheist after much thought and reexamination of Catholic teachings.

My daughter is an atheist. After long talks with her, I've sort of concluded that the main element of atheism is the "feeling" that lacking a deity is not any practical lack anyway.

So, do you actually feel any different about a hypothetical deity or have you mainly made a conscious decision about such?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing

I do not closely associate with religious fanatics for that very reason; each (whether it be the fist pounding atheist or the drum beating fundimentalists) because its seems to have become a 'CAUSE' personal relative to something; its apparently fervent, and in such passion can lack tempered emotional control and become ego based; the byproduct? a need to convert, or manipulate others free will. There is something ugly in this.

AfterInfinity
I agree. That is why I have never sought to convert, but merely to help others develop an understanding of the nature of their beliefs. If they are to believe, I want them to know why. Is it the beliefs that are so alluring, or the part of them to which the beliefs appeal? Do they know, or just want to believe? Why is that? All facets of such a relationship must be understood to understand the exact nature of both the belief and that which is believing. In this, I think, the truth may be found. There is nothing wrong with intentionally lying to yourself as long as the truth remains just as uncertain as the lie you are telling.

Belief systems and why they exist. I have no idea, have always been suspicious of them. It would be a better thing to contrive one for oneself as a unique experience. Not sure thats allowed unless involving commerce or profit, it could be called or misconstrued as independent thinking outside of the box; no new religious offshoots lately, the last one "Branch Davidians; David Koresh Waco" were murdered by the ATF. It has to be the promise of something different BETTER that is the seduction factor for the systems to work, gain new members etc. Generally as I see it there is no equality between the indoctinator and its prey; if there was an equality, and that comes with much study, such as the Buddist Tradition or the Rocsecutian, the initiate does not stand a chance. To intentionally lie to oneself for a positive result is the least of any worries; as there is an expected outcome that results in Growth.

AfterInfinity
But sometimes...people do it for the wrong reasons. And the wrong reasons bolster the wrong approach, and the wrong approach obscures all but the wrong path. And the wrong path tends to warp and distort our perception of the world, which influences our interactions and values and cripples the ideological understanding of all the generations to come. In the end, what we want and why can topple empires. This is what I fear in most religions. We don't know what perfection is, but we want it. We don't understand our own imperfection, but we hate it. We rely upon money because we have failed to grasp the importance of the nonphysical, and we have forfeit the nonphysical in favor of that which requires less cognitive activity.

People generally do things for reasons of profit, that could be energy grabbing or monetary. IF they know and understand this (done intentionally) there is no foul as they understand the game they are playing. If there is any confusion about purpose there is where the warping of pure "intent" comes in. Whether good or bad it must remain pure to have an effect of altering reality. Negatives have had a more positive effect upon changing this world than you can believe, (which is why its allowed). We know what perfection is, and its booring, thats why the dabbling in this imperfect world is so much fun, heartbreaking and ultimately NOT REALITY. We rely upon money because we cant grow it on trees or print it. I hate the concept of money it is crippling to those without it and is a real deal breaker as far as fairness of equal opportunity goes, some are born into it, some have to earn it. But is that not another condition of ones birth contract? "I choose to be poor this lifetime". We are not taught the value or even existance of the non-physical world we all know and have forgotten (remembering it is the key) and most will get it, the rememberance of why we decided to be here in this incarnation.

AfterInfinity
We are slowly morphing into drones because that is what our current ideologies call for. We want to be machines, and so we are assimilating ourselves into everything we recognize in a machine. I do not support this, and I feel that the fears and values that are introduced through many religions tend to curve our progress in that general direction. It's a very military mentality, something that fits quite well in a mechanized society.

I worry about the smart phones, hybrid cars, and radicalized mid-eastern religious zealot factions. As to the former you have to be able to read the Instruction manual, and be able to drive, the latter much more worrisome.

Originally posted by anthonycooper
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Well thanks, I am glad to weigh in on AI's thread since it is about a new direction in my life filled with new challenges.
However I must make it clear to all conserned reading the thread, that AI. did not make the choice to be an atheist for me,I freely chose to be an atheist after much thought and reexamination of Catholic teachings. Well with that out of the way, nice to chat to you for the first time, AI.thinks well of you.

As far as the RCC goes, and its rejection, there are many other forms of BELIEF systems to explore, Hinduism, Buddism, Shinto, Islam, Judiaism as well as Atheism, why short change yourself with so many other alternatives, a bingo card, Ouieji Board ,TIC-TAK-TOE, a deck of Tarot cards--too many to mention.

reply to post by wildtimes


I must admit, I was expecting a bit.. more. Thats on me though.

Oh well, at least I have my electrolytes.

the primary problem of an atheist is
they do not want to admit to a higher intelligence.

reply to post by spirited75


"the primary problem of an atheist is they do not want to admit to a higher intelligence."

The primary problem of a theist is that they cannot conclusively prove the existence of a higher intelligence. Two can play at this game, my friend.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You never used to call yourself an "atheist". Why box yourself into that corner?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


And you cannot prove the non-existence of a higher intelligence. Three can play at that game.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

And you cannot prove the non-existence of a higher intelligence. Three can play at that game.

edit on 19-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I can, the miraculous point to Jesus Christ and the rest of the Blessed Trinity.

reply to post by colbe


How does that prove the non-existence of god?

reply to post by Serdgiam

I must admit, I was expecting a bit.. more. Thats on me though.

Oh well, at least I have my electrolytes.

Serdg, that wasn't my 'intellectual response'.... it was a drive by bit of humor.
I'll address your analogy later this morning, after I've had my tea and got the sleep out of my eyes.

reply to post by Serdgiam


Okay, I'm back. While I drank my tea I watched the full "Jesus Camp" video. In case you haven't seen it, here's a link for the full documentary for free: topdocumentaryfilms.com... The camp has since been shut down, but there is a new influx in my metro area of the "International House of Prayer"; people are moving in droves to the more run-down side of the city, snapping up foreclosed homes and opening new "storefront" churches preaching this stuff.

I am against it.

My "goal" is peace and removing poverty, hatred, intolerance, war, and abuse from this world. My "path" is as a social worker, an advocate for children's best interests, and an outspoken and strong voice pointing out what I see as counterproductive and/or DEstructive policies, beliefs, education/indoctrination, greed, politics, foreign relations, and oppression.

I've been at this for 25 years now - ALL of my adult life. And I'm not backing down.

Some days I go at it calmly, and other days I get more passionate. But my goal is always the same. Depends on who I'm talking to and their attitude. I'm sure I have "haters" on this board, but I also have supporters; either way, the method is to plant seeds of ideas in people's minds. What they do with it is up to them.

as for your analogy: I have been a gardener for those same 25 years - I am fully aware of soil quality and have learned through experience and study what "plants" will grow in which soils with varying amounts of sun, shade, moisture, loam, and climate. Trying to force an avocado tree to grow in the heartland of this country is as ridiculous as trying to have a grass lawn or a perfect golf course in the freaking desert in Nevada. The Colorado river doesn't even REACH the ocean anymore.

I will fight a Theocracy. I find religious zealotry and extremism to be a huge problem in our world......NOT TO SAY that ALL religious people are doing things that harm society and others - but MANY ARE, and they're getting noisier. Fundamentalist Brainwashing and the Early Childhood Indoctrination into a belief system that promotes shame, fear, oppression, self-loathing, emotional abuse, hatred, division, force, and lack of self confidence is WRONG.

Hope that answers your questions. I do NOT want to live in a country run by Evangelicals babbling "gibberish" who are taking advantage of the malleability of children's minds toward "war". Nor will I accept an Islamic state. The world has outgrown those coping skills. We need to get everyone on board with modern best practice.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You never used to call yourself an "atheist". Why box yourself into that corner?

You're funny. You act as though the term "atheist" covers the entire realm of what it is to be spiritual, creating an emotional vacuum. The truth is that only some treat it as a vacuum; technically speaking, it covers only a small corner, leaving the rest of the spiritual world wide open to exploration. Have you any idea how many spiritual concepts and ideologies don't require a god to operate? Or how about taking some of those and exploring them at their roots and discovering that they could very well be clumsy analogies meant to explain much deeper and more scientific principles that our ancestors observed in their time?

I'm not in a corner. Rather, I am simply avoiding that corner because it's the only place I won't be able to go anywhere but backward.

reply to post by wildtimes


An inspiring post, as always. I can see the benefit of having someone with your particular interest actively providing their insight in this subjects...not that I ever doubted it. Bravo.

Unfortunately, you are a tree standing against a hurricane. All you can do is shout imprecations even when you're doubled beneath the force of the gale. It will take at least a forest to slow such a storm. But guess who has the forest?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It will take at least a forest to slow such a storm. But guess who has the forest?

And guess who's planting seeds!

I'm not alone in this, and I appreciate your support. There are many of us - not a "majority" on this site, but people ARE decrying the superstitious indoctrination of children. We're also called "Progressives" - and as I said before, on this forum I get accused of being "demonic" - and on the Social Issues forum I get accused of being a "communist."

Neither is true. The threads I start and participate in are my way of spreading "the word."

reply to post by wildtimes


The tricky thing with "Progressives" is that the term 'progressive' is a very vague and indefinite label. It is only effective insofar as it says, "Hey, we think we know how to progress society for the better."

It doesn't say how, and that often worries me. So would you care to explain your particular brand of the "Progressive Element"?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

And you cannot prove the non-existence of a higher intelligence. Three can play at that game.

There's this thing called an 'educated guess'. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's when all of the world's science leaders come together, compare notes, and say, "There might be something out there, but it's probably not a god. More like a quantum function. Maybe a law that we can't yet nail down. But it's not a god. The evidence points in the wrong direction."

You know, that sort of 'educated guess'.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

This is from the Progressive Magazine's "history and mission." progressive.org...

It steadfastly stands against militarism,
the concentration of power in corporate hands,
and the disenfranchisement of the citizenry.

It champions peace,
social and economic justice,
civil rights,
civil liberties,
human rights,
a preserved environment,
and a reinvigorated democracy.

Its bedrock values are nonviolence and freedom of speech.

One of my 'ideological' 'heroes/teachers' is Jane Addams. www.nobelprize.org...

(Laura) Jane Addams (September 6, 1860-May 21, 1935) won worldwide recognition in the first third of the twentieth century as a pioneer social worker in America, as a feminist, and as an internationalist.
...
In 1889 she and Miss Starr leased a large home built by Charles Hull at the corner of Halsted and Polk Streets. The two friends moved in, their purpose, as expressed later, being «to provide a center for a higher civic and social life; to institute and maintain educational and philanthropic enterprises and to investigate and improve the conditions in the industrial districts of Chicago»1.

Miss Addams and Miss Starr made speeches about the needs of the neighborhood, raised money, convinced young women of well-to-do families to help, took care of children, nursed the sick, listened to outpourings from troubled people.
...
For her own aspiration to rid the world of war, Jane Addams created opportunities or seized those offered to her to advance the cause. In 1906 she gave a course of lectures at the University of Wisconsin summer session which she published the next year as a book, Newer Ideals of Peace.

Sums it up very well.
THAT is what I fight for.

reply to post by wildtimes


Admirable. But what if this nation, or the world, doesn't want what you want?