The Zimmerman Trial

Originally posted by starfoxxx
Score again for the defense... Everything lines up with zimmermans story!! The *expert* voice analysis can not determine who's voice it was. It is the prosecutions job to prove zimmerman is lying.. He is not. He was the one screaming!! Let's look at the fact and evidence, not our own speculation.. Shame on some of you for condemning this man!

How can you say George was the one screaming when an expert has just spent the last hour saying it can't be done scientifically?

reply to post by IvanAstikov


it has been stated at first TM father said it was not him at first, then later said it was. and he was living with him at the time. and seeing how TM had been in so much trouble lately, i would bet they had family fight over his problems, pretty damn close to the day he died. and i can remember when i was young that we yelled at one another every time i got in trouble at that age.

Zim is guilty as sin. i hope he gets 20 years minimum. trigger happy wannabe cops don't belong on the streets, there are more than enough trigger happy real cops. Zim is a murdering idiot.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov


How can you say George was the one screaming when an expert has just spent the last hour saying it can't be done scientifically?

Because he said he was the one screaming!! Prove he wasn't!! That's the point.. Get real!!

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
How can you say George was the one screaming when an expert has just spent the last hour saying it can't be done scientifically?

The only way to say it was possibly Zimmerman screaming is to go back to the testimony of John Good who said it was probably Zimmerman because (paraphrasing) 'it makes sense that the person on the bottom of the fight and who was getting pounded would be yelling for help' and that if it were the person on top 'it would have been louder' because the voice would have been more in his (john goods) direction and bouncing off the buildings.

It's scientifically impossible to say if it was Zimmerman or Martin.
Martins father said it wasn't Martin.
Zimmermans father said it was Zimmerman.
But there could be bias involved in family members ID'ing the voice.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie

The FBI voice expert guy said that a voice in distress changes from a regular voice just being spoken loudly. So even a family member may not be able to ID a voice recording from a cell phone with distance problems and in distress.


SIDE NOTE .... FBI guy is off the stand. FINALLY.
My opinion .... defense and state .... it was a wash.
This guy didn't do anything for either one of them.

Originally posted by hounddoghowlie
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

it has been stated at first TM father said it was not him at first, then later said it was. and he was living with him at the time. and seeing how TM had been in so much trouble lately, i would bet they had family fight over his problems, pretty damn close to the day he died. and i can remember when i was young that we yelled at one another every time i got in trouble at that age.

Just like the way investigators cocked up the presentation of the 911 call to Trayvon's parents, they messed this up too by not even asking Tracy Martin to elaborate on his muted "No" response. For all they or we know, he might have been saying a "No" of denial at hearing his son's last screams. It's not like they seemed very interested in him confirming his response, as they ended the interview because he was obviously emotional. No #, Serino?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
How can you say George was the one screaming when an expert has just spent the last hour saying it can't be done scientifically?

The only way to say it was possibly Zimmerman screaming is to go back to the testimony of John Good who said it was probably Zimmerman because (paraphrasing) 'it makes sense that the person on the bottom of the fight and who was getting pounded would be yelling for help' and that if it were the person on top 'it would have been louder' because the voice would have been more in his (john goods) direction and bouncing off the buildings.

It's scientifically impossible to say if it was Zimmerman or Martin.
Martins father said it wasn't Martin.
Zimmermans father said it was Zimmerman.
But there could be bias involved in family members ID'ing the voice.

If the person on top was hovering over George with his head face down looking at him while he punched crap out of him, how is it going to bounce off the walls?

when you're pointed up, your sound waves mostly escape upwards...

when you're screaming down, the sound waves bounce off the ground and onto other things like walls on buildings as it travels through the air.

both cases the wave bounces, but the one who would be screaming or yelling into the ground would be the loudest since it would enhance the echo compared to the one screaming into the air/sky direction.

EDIT: to add...

it also depends on the person screaming into concrete or grass/dirt. grass or dirt would definitely muffle the sound since dirt isn't solid... it would muffle the sound. if it was concrete, that might be a different story.

Screaming up would also cause echos off the walls but difference wouldn't be much imo.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
How can you say George was the one screaming when an expert has just spent the last hour saying it can't be done scientifically?

The only way to say it was possibly Zimmerman screaming is to go back to the testimony of John Good who said it was probably Zimmerman because (paraphrasing) 'it makes sense that the person on the bottom of the fight and who was getting pounded would be yelling for help' and that if it were the person on top 'it would have been louder' because the voice would have been more in his (john goods) direction and bouncing off the buildings.

It's scientifically impossible to say if it was Zimmerman or Martin.
Martins father said it wasn't Martin.
Zimmermans father said it was Zimmerman.
But there could be bias involved in family members ID'ing the voice.

iirc good said he would think that if some one was on top that the sound would have been going down and be muffled by the ground.
and that is it was from the bottom it would be going up and echo off the buildings.

i 'll look for his testimony and see if i can find it. cause both sides made a point of asking about that.

Originally posted by ugie1028
when you're pointed up, your sound waves mostly escape upwards...

when you're screaming down, the sound waves bounce off the ground and onto other things like walls on buildings as it travels through the air.

both cases the wave bounces, but the one who would be screaming or yelling into the ground would be the loudest since it would enhance the echo compared to the one screaming into the air/sky direction.

EDIT: to add...

it also depends on the person screaming into concrete or grass/dirt. grass or dirt would definitely muffle the sound since dirt isn't solid... it would muffle the sound. if it was concrete, that might be a different story.

Screaming up would also cause echos off the walls but difference wouldn't be much imo.

edit on 7/1/2013 by ugie1028 because: (no reason given)

This is true, compounded by the fact that the one on bottom isn't going to have maximum lung expansion due to someone on their torso. And exhaustion. The one in the bottom will tire out faster trying to fight out of their predicament. That's three scientific reasons why the person underneath screams will be impeded.

Good said that it wouldn't make sense that the person on top would be screaming bloody murder for help. But that the person on the bottom would be because he was getting beat up. Kinda makes sense. But whatever. We won't ever know for sure ....

Originally posted by riffraff

This is true, compounded by the fact that the one on bottom isn't going to have maximum lung expansion due to someone on their torso. And exhaustion. The one in the bottom will tire out faster trying to fight out of their predicament. That's three scientific reasons why the person underneath screams will be impeded.

That's all very well, but the person on the bottom doesn't seem to have made any attempt to stop Trayvon's alleged attack until he actually stopped and went for George's gun(which he somehow saw while straddling George's hips and beating the snot out of him), so if he was tired after 30 seconds of combat, I'm sure his mma instructor will be a little disappointed.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Good said that it wouldn't make sense that the person on top would be screaming bloody murder for help. But that the person on the bottom would be because he was getting beat up. Kinda makes sense. But whatever. We won't ever know for sure ....

Good can't make such an assumption if he hasn't seen how the fight started and progressed. For all he knows, the two of them could have just slipped on the wet grass while involved in a standing struggle and he popped out just as Trayvon was trying to get back to his feet, with George still holding on to the front of his clothing.

Recording being played of Zimmerman getting his rights read and the information that he gave to the police lady. Seems he was cooperating fully. My own observation ... Zimmmermans voice is higher pitched than I thought it would be.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


True. Like I said ... John Good saw the fight at the time when Martin was on top beating up Zimmerman. That doesn't mean it started or ended that way. But John Goods observation gives plenty of 'reasonable doubt' against the Murder 2 charge.

Zimmerman police statement just after the shooting telling what happened.

.... Lost track of Martin .... then saw Martin circle his car while Zimmerman was in the car and on the phone ... Martin disappears into the night ... Zimmerman follows ... 'dispatcher ... 'where are you'? .... Zimmerman answers ... Dispatch 'we don't need you to do that' ... Zimmerman requests a police offer to go to his car and Zimmerman goes back to his car. Martin jumps out and they talk .. Martin then says 'now you have a problem' and punches Zimmerman and attacks and slams head in sidewalk ... Martin is on top of Zimmerman. Zimmerman yells for help all this time ... Good yells that he's going to call 911 .. Martin puts hand over nose and mouth saying 'you are going to die tonight' .... Zimmerman thought Martin was going for firearm so he (Zimmerman) went for gun and shot him. Zimmermans vision was blurry at this point. Zimmerman felt like Martin was hitting him with bricks.

OKAY ... this is where BHs question comes in ... about Zimmerman getting on top of Martins body .... I think he just said that he did.

Martin was alive after the gunshot according to Zimmerman. Martin said 'you got me ... oww oww'.

*** If forensics say that the death was instant, this will discredit Zimmerman.
*** Martin put his hand over Zimmermans nose. If the nose was broken at this time, there would probably have been blood on Martins hands. I don't know at what point Zimmermans nose broke.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

True. Like I said ... John Good saw the fight at the time when Martin was on top beating up Zimmerman. That doesn't mean it started or ended that way. But John Goods observation gives plenty of 'reasonable doubt' against the Murder 2 charge.

Stop saying that he saw Trayvon beating George up. Whatever he saw, it obviously wasn't the kind of beating George described.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by riffraff

This is true, compounded by the fact that the one on bottom isn't going to have maximum lung expansion due to someone on their torso. And exhaustion. The one in the bottom will tire out faster trying to fight out of their predicament. That's three scientific reasons why the person underneath screams will be impeded.

That's all very well, but the person on the bottom doesn't seem to have made any attempt to stop Trayvon's alleged attack until he actually stopped and went for George's gun(which he somehow saw while straddling George's hips and beating the snot out of him), so if he was tired after 30 seconds of combat, I'm sure his mma instructor will be a little disappointed.

Oh finally I get a response from the pro Martin crowd. Not the post I wanted a response on but fine. Your above statement concedes that GZ was on bottom. I don't pretend to know who was on bottom. I think GZ's mma instructor was disappointed in him before this all happened. GZ is medically obese; after 18months of alleged training he was not in fighting shape. TM on the other hand was athletic, fought for fun, and was "ripped" I'd say 7% body fat or less. 30 seconds of fighting for your life is a long time, a lot of wasted energy grappling, punches missing. I read your posts you know as well as I know fighting for your life is a sprint/not a marathon. People burn out quick. Now 30 seconds of fighting for your life while fat and losing---that's an eternity. And I know you know this.

I've asked this 3 or 4 times now and I can't get an answer from the Martin crowd: aren't you mad you were lied to by the MSM? You were sold a lie before you had a chance to make up your own mind.

Please read and respond to my post at the bottom of page 68

So, Zimmerman is in his car.
A suspicious person walks AROUND his car and disappears.
Zimmerman gets out of is car to see a street sign?
A: If a suspicious character walks around my car, I DO NOT get out of the car, not knowing where he is.
B: Why does he have to get out of the car to see a street sign and why doesn't the head of the Neighborhood Watch KNOW the name of the streets in his tiny community?
C: If Zimmerman was returning to his car, why was he behind the townhouses? Looking for a street sign?