Jehovah's Witnesses believe UN will ban Religion

Not to get into a huge debate about religion, but if the world population implemented the Bible teachings from Jehovah Witnesses (found after all in all Bibles), the earth would be a very peaceful planet to live on... This peaceful state would not be built from fear but from love - the most powerful force on earth...

Unfortunately as most people with Bible knowledge know this is not the case... Satan told Jehovah (God's name) a long time ago (in Job) that he will turn away every man and woman from worshiping God... To this day, this is true as people are putting less and less focus on religion and true worship... Hense today's global mess... Will Satan prove his point or achieve his goal? No, as there are a ever increasing number of people worshiping Jehovah and living according to his printed word, the Bible.

As for the issue of the UN and the ultimate banning of religion, look around... Things are happening already... Many governments have stated that religion is the cause of many many issues in today's world... The next step is for the UN to get enough TEETH to go ahead with its plan to remove religion once and for all... This might take a while longer still, but the wheels are now in motion...

For the critics out there that are soo quick to poke fun of Witnesses, I pray for you that you wake up from your spiritual sleep soon enough...

Praise Jah, you people...

reply to post by Simulacra


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me get this straight...

Religion does Textcause civil unrest nor war??? I certainly hope this was a joke are extreme sarcasm.

Crusades anyone?

reply to Religion never cause civil unrest? What rock do you live under? Organized religion has been the cause of 2 world wars, of the deaths of hundreds of millions of people in all types of unrest. Someone needs to go to the library.post by Simulacra

reply to post by dgtempe


Wrong. They believe the Bible to be the word of God and in Revelation it states that 144,000 will be bought from the earth (how are they bought--through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus) to serve as judges and preists along with Jesus Christ over the remaining subjects of God's Kingdom *which will be here on earth). Mankind was made to live on the earth--not to die and then go to heaven. If Adam and Eve had not sinned where would they be now? Right here on earth. God said if you obey you will live forever. They chose through their freewill to choose for themselves and make their own decisions. It would be wonderful if people like you did not perpetuate your misinformed understanding and pass it on like you know this is what their beliefs are. Take time to actually read your Bible if you have one, does not appear you spend anytime doing that. d

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: I was invited to this thread by u2u from MatrixProphet (a poster I respect and hold in high esteem) who recently discovered I had disclosed that I was Ex(disfellowed)-Jehovah's Witness in another JW subject based thread.

I have wrestled with myself on whether I should fully disclose my history and experience concerning in an aid to deny any ignorance and I have for some reason that still eludes me, feel very uncomfortable and reluctant but these are just subsets of FEAR and I hate FEAR and MUST eliminate it . So I will feel my FEAR but not let it control me. I will fully disclose but with a few caveats.

1) I will not respond to any reply that tries to debunk my post as I'm pretty sure 99.999% you weren't there!!!
2) Please be fully aware that this post is coming from a POV that is looking back to a point in time in my life over 15yrs+ ago and during those 15yrs+ I have lived quite a life and have subsequently changed many if not all the POV's that I held back then.
3) I was diagnosed as suffering extremely acute onset of teenage violently paranoid schizophrenic psychopath and sociopath a at age 13yrs old after I chased my Mum around the house with a butchers knife and a meat cleaver with the full intent of killing, butchering and cooking?(hadn't made my mind up and raw meat has this highly attractive smell to me and so does blood (strangely I can't stand the sight of other peoples blood directly in my face as it and the smell makes me dry wretch as my moral conscience fights my bodies desire to cannibalize the bleeding "Victim", for internal self control. :!. I was quickly medicated on stelazine and after 3mnts confinement in a mental asylum was released as "CURED" back into the big wide world. During this time I was assessed as having an IQ of 153 at age 13 (I recently tested myself in an Australia wide TV based IQ test and both my two brothers and I all ranked at above 120 but below 130 (I was highest at 128IQ Not mensa but not nesscient either). Unfortunately my EQ was so low as to be both sociopathical and psychopathical in nature ( I still fully hold to the belief my parents have murdered me by giving birth to me when I am neither immortal or invulnerable! CRAZY HUH! and then I go and extend that to all parents...Then I start feeling I want revenge and as I don't subscribe in any way to state sanctioned revenge I start plotting to do it all by my little old self....this leds and has led to my commitment many times to address these issues!) BUT this has all been currently resolved in past 6yrs due to self commitment to the asylum, great Dr's and Nurses,
1x30min/fhtnght mental therapy sessions with my case mngr and 1x1hr/3mnth visit with my Psychiatrist and 2xdaily medication regime of both
antiepileptics (EPILIM) and anti Psychotics (Risperdal) at relatively moderate
to high doses. I'm considered as Unemployable for more than 5hrs/dayx1/wk
at very menial jobs and I'm not allowed to own ANY weapon of any kind (pocket knives included...but I do carry keys on a very long chain... can anybody say kusari-fundo and I'm still fighting for my right to carry a walking stick as per Australian law [it can be 1-2inches thick and up to 6ft tall !!!]) and I am not allowed to pilot any motorized vhcl except a postie bike and then I need special permission. This caveat can be considered to taint my entire post. Please refer to my Disclaimer. But always I shall endevour to Deny Ignorance and this is my primary goal when posting on ATS/BTS.
4) For privacy and security reasons I will not be using anyones name but will refer to everybody (except myself) in code. I will use the code to describe my status at various stages.
The code is as follows:-
E=Elder
S=Ministerial Servant
C=member of the Congregation
P=Pioneer (all are full time Active Witnesses)
T=Theocratic expert
Mss=Missionary
O=External Oversight (always a high ranking Elder from the corporate side of the JW organization)
AW=Active Witness (any code without this means the Witness is performing at less than 1hr/1wk with regards to promoting the JW beliefs). All AW are both Baptized and at a minimum a C
UB=unbaptized member
j=junior Elder, Ministerial Servant, Pioneer or Missionary, Theocratic expert or Active Witness.
M=Male
F=Female (after and E means Wife of the Elder and she will also have his numerical code)
000 to 999=random numerical designation of person except a single special code designation for a member of the "Bride of Christ" i.e. the 144000=144
So an Elder may be coded as EMAWPT789 and his wife as EFAWPjT789.
I for example started out as a UBCjM and left as SjMAWPjT and was well on my way to become a SMAWPT and then my goal was to reach OEMAWPTMss.
Note these codes are not actually used by the JW's themselves but are fully a construct of my own. Don't be thinking that because I reached the level of Sj that I was a Congregational Policeman and these codes I'm "revealing" were used to somehow ID people and form files on them as this is completely untrue but that doesn't mean that there isn't a fantastically extreme amount of gossip that goes on you basically can hide very little from the Elders or the Servants attention.

So here goes....

My demographic back then (Jan 01 1987 CE)was:
age:14yrs
culture: White Anglo Convict decent Australian teenage male.
Education: Government High school yr8 unemployed student
Socially: Outcast!
Familial: Outcast! (but still living at home)

I was a bigot, misogynist and a Thug and was well aware I was on the road to a quick unpleasant death (Damn my inbuilt genius) so what to do eh? huh? hmmmm? I know I'll get meself GOD and myself Religious and then maybe then my Mum might just forgive me....So the next time a fellow student a yr ahead of me and a JW (code CMAWTj001) who was born into the following witnessed to me I took him up on his dare to have some bible study sessions.

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1mnth later I had vetted the whole JW concept enough to know that the Bible had some moral basis and codes I could see myself conforming to easily even though the underling premises could with some very careful discernment smelt more than a little rotten and this intrigued me no end and so to learn more I felt I needed to string CMAWTj001 and his parents CM274 and CFAW274 along by agreeing with them slowly at first then more rapidly as I gained confidence in my understanding of what I knew and what they taught me. After 2 more months I declared my desire to be baptized and start attending the Kingdom Hall meetings and the Theocratic Ministry and to their extreme joy these things quickly came to pass and by age 15yrs old I was CMAWTj and on the fast track to become a Sj , Pj and a T when I left school after yr10 at age 16yrs old. And after that because the congregation only had 5 Elders 2 Ministerial Servants and 2 junior Ministerial Servants (both just 17yrs old and sons of Elders) and all these positions were held by people who had grow all grown up in the faith and there was a large desire to have someone who was converted be placed in these positions as well so as to have some PR credibility when it comes to other new converts and the general public at large, I was to be fast tracked to be an Elder and a Full time Pioneering Missionary. These people were considered to be a front-line defense against external ridicule. I was the only male to fit the bill for that from the time I joined and until I left as the basic demographic of converts were children of Parents who had been recently converted, most of which were woman (both single and married) and if their husbands joined then they usually worked full time jobs and rarely witnessed at all just like CMAW001's dad CM274 and usually these men were already in their 50's and 60's and the congregation leadership desperately needed young fresh blood. I fitted the bill perfectly and this unfortunately resulted in some friction between me and CMAW001 at times because even though he was older I attained T and Sj before he did and was only 1yr behind him in becoming a Pj by which time he was a P.

90%+ of all converts during my time as a baptized brother were women over 25yrs old (usually 30+) with up to 3 children all under 12 yrs old. Aussie Men
are extremely reluctant to convert on their own and I can only recall 1 occasion that it happened (aside from my own unique case) and that was basically a deathbed conversion of a widowed father to please a long time converted daughter (she had stopped witnessing to him yrs before to hold the peace and then suddenly yrs later just simply converted but died very quickly afterwards. His daughter was eternally grateful to him for his actions as it put her mind at rest even though she felt the old coot was just doing it to please her and not Jesus or Jehovah.).

The demographic of my local congregation at that time comprised of 120 members in total and the 3yr old Kingdom Hall had been built by quick-build in around 40hrs non-stop (I saw this particular quick-build in action but not as a JW!) and 1/3rd of that was a internal Yugoslavian Language Congregation that shared the hall but had its own separate meetings and theocratic schools and leadership etc but they did partake in the main sunday meeting thats fully open to the Public. I had minimal interaction at the leadership level of this Yugoslavian congregation but I personally knew the Elders and Ministerial Servants and witnessed with all of them as the entire congregation would witness together and door to door partners would be regularly exchanged unless a particular 2 were identified as being an extremely good match and had a very good conversion and or magazine turnover rate at which point the would often be permanently paired
together! We in the leadership and Theocratic experts group referred to these pairings as "Big Guns" and I myself was referred to by some in the congregation when paired with certain other brothers or sisters as being 1/2 of a "Big Gun" and this of course helped further my cause to become an Elder.

I was in an extremely privileged position. I was admired by practically 90%+
of the adult congregation including the full support of the leadership of which I was being fast tracked to join. I also had a privileged position amongst
the children and other teenagers who had been born into the congregation because I let them know ASAP that I was not a policeman for the leadership against them because they were under duress of biblical law...Can anybody say respect thy mother and father....where as I had fully chosen this life consciously and willing and reminded them that in the end its YHVH who judges them and NOT me. This gained me great respect and I practically buzzed like a social humming bird or bee from one demographic to the next within the congregation with ease. I was trained in security because that is the basic job of a Ministerial Servant but this is ONLY because of a direct TERRORIST attack on a Kingdom Hall in Australia that killed and maimed several people. During my whole time with and as a JW I only saw or heard of the law being broken 5 times and all these were extreme misdemeanor crimes such as double parking or speeding (some JW do have a lead foot especially the young greek and italian men in their sports cars) but over all
they were extremely law abiding and most of the working adult JW's I knew all held coveted positions of responsibility and trust and even though they are not of this world they still live here so they give unto Caesar what is Caesars (i.e. they personally pay tax including the Elders but the religion of the JW's itself is tax exempt and its treated like a charity for tax purposes.
The leadership never "demanded" a handout from anybody ever during my time there. They always made their case for it without scripture and in front of the entire congregation. Yes there are donation boxes but they were at the back and to the side and quite small and had a sign above it telling you exactly where the money was going and why. These boxes usually were reserved for paying off the Kingdom Hall mortgage. Occasionally, Publicly a large loan was requested from a single or bare handful of unnamed volunteers from out of the congregation who if they saw fit were requested to approach a Ministerial Servant and request a private meeting with an Elder.

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[edit on 16-1-2009 by OmegaLogos]

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The reason for the loan was always public knowledge and the financial books were also public knowledge and not once did I ever see anybody misappropriate funds. Occasionally a loan would require immediate repayment because a lender had desperate need of funds but this was very rare and always another wealthy brother or sister would fill the void when this occurred and was made public knowledge. Lenders Identities were always kept secret from anyone not in the leadership clique but they were publicly acknowledged and highly praised when they called in their loans and the congregation is reminded that YHVH does provide through faith in Jesus but works of that Faith speak as proof of love of YHVH GOD.

As to keeping records of crimes or religious failings I not once ever saw this recorded anywhere in any form and who do you think the Elders use as Secretaries and Gofors... The Ministerial Servants thats right and I was a fast tracked Junior Ministerial Servant with deep access to the workings and goings on of my congregations leadership clique and held in extremely high regard by those Elders who led the congregation. The book you speak of "DEFINATELY" exists. I've seen it, held it but not read it. Its usually required to be kept in the Elders personal safe and is only used to vet consistently unrepentant sinners who have been forewarned and offered high level support from the congregation to change their ways. I should know not only have I converted people to the JW faith quite successfully (10 baptized converts in 2 and 1/2 years and one was an old catholic retired nun!) but have driven them out as well as I am personally responsible for alerting the leadership on to a case of sexual deviancy between one young adult male brother (born in the faith, he was not an AW and clearly wanted OUT) and two young adult females (1 was a recent convert and not yet baptized and easily corrupted and the other was a sister who had been born in the faith and was like him not AW and also looking for an OUT). These 3 were caught
in flagrant delicto by me and two other brothers and as drugs and other taboos were clearly being broken and I as the highest ranked in the leadership out of the 3 witnessing brothers it was my duty to inform the leadership and if I didn't then I seriously could have jeapordized my status both as a junior Servant and as a congregationally accepted Baptized brother. There were three witnesses to these "taboos" being broken and so according to scripture there was enough evidence to prosecute it and as both
the main culprits (i.e. the lifelong brother and sister (no not to each other but to the faith ...I'm not talking about incest in anyway) had been warned previously about such taboo breaking behaviour and were TOTALLY UNREPENTANT as was the recently converted sister and so for their actions they were disfellowed under a religious court hearing held by the full board of Elders supported by several Ministerial Servants (who act as security 1st and then as admin lackeys). They were asked kindly not to return to the Kingdom Hall and were escorted by the Servants from it and peacefully ejected. Their names were read out at the next Theocratic Ministry school meeting and all present are reminded NOT to have any dealings with these people if at all possible but to fully respect their rights under law and under GOD UNLESS they confess and repent PUBLICLY in front of the congregation at which point they would be put on probation and placed under a Servants and an Elders watchful eye but they would be accorded full rights and respect accorded any other full congregational member. this time 2 warnings ignored under probation and again they would be immediately disfellowed. Records of those who are disfellowed are Not kept except in the memory of congregational members and some have memories that go back to the flood I tell ya.
My congregational leader and the head Elder of the group of 5 Elders was and American EMAWPMss739 (his wife was EFAWPMss739) and he had practically built the congregation in my local area up from completely nothing
10 years previous to a congregation numbering in the 80's (not including the separate Yugoslavian congregation which took care of its own recruitment).
Most of this was due to many Australian JW families immigrating to the local area and it is one of these families I ran into and subsequently was converted by. I was the 1st young male convert in 10 years and remained so for the next 3 1/2 years (2 1/2 years as baptized brother). I was a rare and valuable commodity for many many reasons and I consciously exploited this to my own ends especially when I cottoned on to the business side of things.
Now to describe the demographic of my congregation, the breakdown is as follows.

1986 80 members (approx because its been 15yrs+ OK + or - up to 4 people )

5 Elders
2 Ministerial Servants
2 junior Ministerial servants (both engaged to marry young sisters of their peer group in age)
1 brother who is responsible for all audio and visual aids (not a MS but a important job none the less)
= 10% of congregation and all are men over 17yrs of age
another 10% of married brothers = 8 adult men
20% are wives/fiances of these men = 16 women
total 32people or 40% of the congregation
about another 10% are single women = 8 women approx
and nearly all are single mothers with children
about 10% are young unmarried brothers aged 15yrs+ who grew up in the faith and are usually looking for a way out. = 8 men approx except CMAW001 who converted me and was also looking for a way up and not out.
about 10% are young unmarried sisters aged 15yrs+ who grew up in the faith and like the boys are usually looking for an out.
the remaining 30% are all children under 15yrs old and basically split 50/50 boys and girls.= 24 children approx

I never heard of or saw any kind of child abuse take place except for the duress the parents put their kids through but parents everywhere do this and it is not unique to the JW's in any way shape or form. That is not to say it wasn't , didn't and isn't still happening but I tell you none of us in the leadership at that time would have tolerated this kind of behaviour from anybody let alone a member (Elder or not) of the congregation and would have remorsefully had them prosecuted under Australian law as appropriate.
That [SNIP] isn't tolerated at all in Australian culture and especially male Australian culture.

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[edit on 16-1-2009 by OmegaLogos]

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People who do that don't last long and as a result we have had to build special prisons to house these creeps.

Yes the leadership likes to take care of things internally as any group would but there are limits and protocol and the leadership I was under was almost always well above board and was quite clear on where the boundaries lay for both spiritually and legally and what was required of congregational members who become witness to such transgressions. Usually it required complaints from three credible and reliable congregational members before any action was taken internally such as in investigation into validity of the complaints or an upfront warning to the person who is being complained about " to just be aware that its come to our attention that there are some heavy rumors and gossip about you concerning such and such etc.". Then they are given several warnings if the case has been shown to have validity and if they continue to sin and are caught out and remain unrepentant then and only then is extreme action warranted such as disfellowshiping them.

I learned from the JW's the following things....
Know thy enemy...I was encouraged to read as many versions of the bible as possible and compare them to the NWT and note and remember each discrepency and how to combat it scripturally and psychologically. All AW want to convert a fanatical muslim, an orthodox jew and a satanistic wiccan or a nun or a priest. I used to dream of converting John Paul II to JW and having the whole catholic faith follow him into salvation... LOL boy I was arrogantly self assured. Note I have actually done one of those things and did convert a retired catholic nun (I was a CMAWSjTPj at the time) but it was
well towards the end of my time with them (about 6mnths before I was disfellowed). I was totally encouraged to even read and posses occult books by extremely well respected T and E who often had their own private collections but I was warned not to study them in isolation (unlike the bible) and was required to treat them like they were highly radioactive and was told explicitly not to show them or even mention them in the presence of anyone
under the age of 15yrs old for any reason whatsoever upon penalty of IMMEDIATE disfellowship no if buts or maybe's and this was one of the only times I can recall of grounds for immediate expulsion (even the creeps above can repent and still be in the fold except they still may end up in jail for their crimes but even repentance here is still met with high levels of unforgiveness and I would assume a 6mnth in exile would be the minimum punishment for this (I think this rule may have come from that book) considering the several religious court cases I personally witnessed (5 in total not including my own. 4 disfellowings and 1 repentant full publicly confessing aquittal who never had to be warned again.) At all these court cases every single Elder had both a copy of the NWT and the book from their safes and they used BOTH of these to come to a overall and it had to be UNANIMOUS decision and final verdict. Trials were not to last more than an hr and witnesses could be called but it was a completely closed court and only the verdict was to be released publicly afterwards at the next Theocratic ministry school meeting. Usually the bible was used to condemn people, that and their clearly stated un-repentance! I was an exception to this as you will find out below.

Yes The JW's believe that 1) they are not of this world but must reside in it as
Christ's flock until he returns in the 2nd coming this gives rise to the JW's agreeing with This Scheme of Things at certain levels i.e. certain laws including UN ones and money therefor they pay taxes and earn a wage.
Its interesting to note that once I was a baptized brother I was offered several jobs by the entire group of congregational adult brothers. The 1st would cost me 200$AU and would get me a small business permit and all the gear and stock required to run a window washing business which nearly 50% of all brothers worked at part or full time and also they were willing to each give me one of their customers to get me started once I left school at age 16yrs old or I could join a fellow brothers Fruit Market business and as my mate CMAW001 was already employed there I decided to work for him for 12hrs/day for 4days/wk for a very basic wage but I didn't mind as I was still living at home rent and board free and the money I made paid for my magazines and bible and petrol and lunches and clothes(suits and shoes etc).
Mainly me and CMAW001 got around on bicycles and would get lifts with brothers and sisters when we went witnessing.Paying your own way is a big thing with both Aussies and JW's but often I saw magazines given away just to spread the word. These magazines are BOUGHT of the Watchtower organization by the witnesses themselves for about 40c each at that time and
that is why they ask for a contribution when they fork them over. I have seen full time pioneers spend half their paycheck on these magazines and study books and they get a 50% discount unlike the rest of the congregation but are required to put in 90 logged (Pj's are required to do 40hrs min and are called auxillary pioneers and you must be a Tj to meet this standard and can get a 25% discount but most pay full price and count the rest as a donation as many have good paying part time jobs) hrs a month dedicated witnessing in return for this privilege, of which not all is door to door time but is also study time with potential converts (usually an hr), travel time to and from is also included. AW, Pj and P are the main local foot troops in the door to door war. Mss augment this to a high degree.

Yes the JW's believe that only 144000 are going to rule with Jesus as his bride, as kings and priests, in heaven. I have personally met one from a congregation in the same city but not from my congregation . CFAWTPMss144 was the most saintly person I ever met ...she was a converted jew to catholicism and from there to JW in 1920 and became part of the bride in a 1927 Convention that sealed the full 144000 bride of Christ.
They believe also that when the last one is called away in a twinkling of an eye that that is the sign to retreat to the Kingdom Halls and prepare for Armaggedon. She partook of the unleavened bread and wine at passover.

On Alcohol and drug use. all illicit drugs are taboo and so are cigarettes.

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Prescription medications are fully allowed and recommended. I was on stelazine and they knew it and had no problem whatsoever either with my schizophrenia or being medicated for it. Psychiatry was also recommended for members of the congregation who were experiencing mental issues that could not be biblically resolved. Prayer is Great but sometimes its just not enough!

Yes they refuse blood transfusions (even if its against the law!) but not plasma and much prefer saline just to bulk up the fluid levels. As a baptized member of the Congregation you are required to carry at all time an No Blood card signed by 2 adult witnesses (usually Elders) that releases the medical authorities from any liability as a result of the card holder holding that position and demanding the card holders rights as an unconscious patient to have their religious concerns fully complied with. I still carry my own version of this to this day for my own reasons.

Yes the JW's believe that the 1 beast was the four Kingdoms (ie Babylon(Persia)/Assyria/Greece/Rome) and that the Harlot is this scheme of things or AKA the world and the 2nd beast as the UN and that the Anti-Christ
will eventually rule the entire world through this organization (pretty similar to the Philidelphia Church/Kingdom of GODs beliefs under Armstrong who I used to watch on a sunday morning on TV as a child and I believe was a disfellowed brother before he created the PKG along similar lines and beliefs
to the JW's of that time) at which point religion will be done away with and the mark will be placed upon everybody and blah blah blah etc.

I don't know if they currently see Kim Bak Moon as the Anti-Christ but I doubt it. But for the time I was a JW whoever was GS of the UN was usually watched like a hawk by the whole congregation.

Only a few of the Elders and their sons had white collar(lawyer, accountant and a high ranked Public servant) jobs and almost exclusively the demographic if the had a political stance would of been to the center left and most were laborers and unionists by default (strange how Aussie JW's wouldn't vote in Government elections but would vote for a union rep I never questioned it but I never understood it either.) and as such when it came to quick-builds they were quite efficiently pulled off in no time at all. JW would pour in from around the country and be joined by specially trained quick-build teams built up from international JW's who have made quick-building a way of life (preparation for the 1000yr reign rebuild).
I personally helped out for the entire 42hr quick build at Cowra and it was one of the best experiences I have ever had. I was on dogjobs and cleaned the all toilets during that time (both sexes) and also did everything from brickies laborer to scafolding to stipling scrapper to roof tiling plus anything the kitchenhands (they fed 2000 people 3 times a day for two days straight of which 1 meal was completely free and free coffee or tea with every meal and coffee's,tea,s and drinks and snaks available quite cheaply all day and all night long . I personally washed up the entire previous nights and 2nd days lunch worth of washing for 2000 people in 2x 2hr sessions at which point some sisters complained to several Elders that I was being pushed far too hard (hadn't slept for entire quick-build and had covered for CMAW001 when he had crashed out uncountable hrs before (I was so soo soooooooooooo SOOOO very high on YHVH and Jesus at that time I literally felt like Samson and had some crazy idea that I was an unstoppable force for GOD and what ever was required I could do easily as GOD would help me to do this and I at this point had fully fooled myself into the JW belief system, I was a CONVERTABOT for YHVH.)) and when I refused and the Elder was so out of it himself by then and really really wasn't all that interested i.e.ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ they basically kidnapped me and locked me in a childproof lock car!!!! and told me to sleep OR ELSE. Thankfully one of the womens sons came and rescued me about 1/2hr later when he walked passed the car and I asked him to let me out and he did. He was totally shocked at what they did and was extremely angry with his mum and the other women (he was an S in his congregation) but I cooled him off with some scripture and we both continued on working on the cleanup for several hrs more before I was again kidnapped by these sisters and bundled off to bed at some local JW's house ....there were many many sisters being housed there so I calmly went out the back and slept under the stars for about 6hrs before CMAW001 and his dad found me and we all went back home. Stories of mine and CMAW001's heroic exploits (he was on dunny duty as well ...if there is a hell and the JW's are wrong then me and CMAW001 shall have no fear of it for we have seen worse and survived and no I'm not kidding, I'm totally serious on this matter!!!) were spread far and wide by others from our local city. If I wasn't disfellowed I would have loved to join the international quick-build crew as they were the nicest hardest working bunch of human beings I have ever had the pleasure to meet.

How and why I was Disfellowed...
I was a CMAWTPjSj and it was passover time and as usual the entire adult congregation was encouraged to become auxillary pioneers for that month and get at least 40hrs of door to door war witnessing in (this is extremely hard to do) and I applied but only achieved 39hrs ( a full 9hrs ahead of anyone else but a failure in my eyes none the less and also in YHVH's or so I assumed). The Elders were disappointed as much as I was (its not a good look to vow something to GOD and fail especially if you are in the Leadership clique which at that point in time I was even though I was only junior in status.) but were as encouraging as possible and never held it against me but that never stopped me damning myself pretty hard. Then a public talk was given by an Elder from overseas (OEMTPMss) and he talked about Paul and how he was called to account for some indiscretion before YHVH along with two other brothers and they all repented and shaved their heads as atonement.....hmmm can you see where this is leading YEP you betcha, that night my dome was as bald as a babies bum. This lead directly to a meeting with the Elders the next day when I turned up to witness fully decked out in suit and briefcase with the sun bouncing off my shiny scon like some halo.
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cont from above.

Cont from above.

They only used the book from their safes to judge and assess me (no sight of the NWT except in my hands to be my witness) I told them my position and quoted them the scriptures to back me up and they refused to budge from their position that I was to repent bring the JW's congregation into disrepute and I was not to witness to anybody till I at least had short back and sides! I refused to repent or stop witnessing and subsequently was immediately disfellowed. I knew what could happen and I walked into this religion with my eyes as open as I could get them. I was never there for GOD in the begining but it quickly evolved to that level so when I left YES there was great pain and tribulation but I knew that already and finally the rage subsided and I realized my eyes had been truely opened by these Elders so I forgave them all YHVH included and went off to find my own GOD.

To this day JW's visit my door to talk to my youngest brother (he loves arguing with them) and we still get the watchtower and the awake magazine But I only rarely talk to them and only if my bro is absent. I always buy their mags first and then inform them of my disfellowed state but encourage them to try and reconvert me and that I will pass the magazines on to my bro.They usually feel quite uncomfortable with my pleasant attitude towards them whilst tearing their bible a new one. Occasionally I meet an old brother or sister who I knew and how also knew me and this has led to many good and some bad confrontations. For a period of time I stalked an older single sister but was warned off by the cops and it was never revealed by her to the congregation but when I met her many years afterwards she couldn't forget it or forgive me. Some humans, JW or not sometimes can't let sleeping dogs lie and take a militant position. Thankfully they were rarities in my congregation.FYI in Australia they were required by internal protocol(after the terrorist attack) to have a do not call register and if anybody doesn't want to be disturbed at home ever by the JW they can just ask to be put on the register (this is not really common knoweledge and in my time it was suppressed in the wider community as much as possible i.e. we didnt offer it up front and only when asked were we to comply...this was because once a house is on the DNC register its there for life and when people move away this prevents witnessing to the new tenants) which is in the form of a little street map that shows the witnessing area for the day to be completed and on the back is a list fo house No#'s and their street name and some notes on the householders reasons for being on the register...these can be mundane as please just don't disturb us, all the way to EXTREMELY DANGEROUS i.e. this guy confronts JW's with a loaded shotgun and he's trigger happy!


Weird stuff....
I as a 15yr old just baptized brother CMAWTj noticed that the 5 wives of the Elders were all gathered around arguing with each other and it was getting quite heated. These were all EFAWTPxxx sisters and most had over 40yrs+ in the faith. I quitely moved over to them and listened in unobtrusively for about 2 or 3 minutes before I stepped in as the only baptized brother around at that time. It was end of lunchtime during a daily witnessing door to door war and these women did this for a lifestyle and each were theologic experts and hard working fulltime pioneers ,wives and mothers and had far more witnessing under their belts and should of been able to beat me hands down in a scripture and ideological contest but I felt both the bible as I knew it (I had studied directly with these women on a daily basis plus many many other JW T's and was quickly on my way to being a full T myself) and YHVH were on my side and not on theirs so
I suddenly stepped right into the middle of their group and quietly and almost whispering reminded them they were YHVH's house and to show some respect and asked them how Jesus would feel if they had carried on in the tabernacle or solomons temple that way. Suddenly I was the focus of all their extremely shocked into jaw gaping silence which I let drag out a little bit hoping they would regain their composure as I really didn't want to embarrass them in front of several other sisters who were also present in the hall but way way up the back. The main two culprits who were at each others throats whilst the other three weren't calming the situation down and were actually inflaming it. I reprimanded them with scriptures they had taught me and some they didn't know I knew and asked them to repent before each other and YHVH and pray for forgiveness and divine guidence and and forgive each other and basically kiss and make up. They were all quickly ashamedly nodding in agreement and pulling out their little square head coverings or scarfs (JW women must only pray with their head covered and JW men must pray with their head totally uncovered) and donning them and then there was this strange prolonged silence as we all bowed our head in prayer...after about 15 seconds I opened my eyes and they were all staring at me quite intently...I was shocked and suprised as I suddenly realized thay wanted me to lead them in prayer (I hadn't yet learned that even extremely capable JW women MUST defer to the baptized men within the fold in all cases and especially in prayer so there I was a 15yr old baptized brother of only about 4mnths and I was literally in charge of these 5 women and didn't know it until then). I quickly composed myself and Spoke the 1st words of any prayer I had ever spoken publically before and was quite amazed that I breezed thru it being all diplomatic and also quite scriptural and blah blah blowing my own horn gotta stop LOL but at the end 3 of the 5 were in tears of joy and the other 2 suddenly treated me with much more respect and maturity from that day forth. I had the biggest internal woody of my entire life till that point in time and I knew I wanted to become an Elder quick pronto.

Personal Disclosure: If your are a disfellowed JW its not because you did something wrong...its because you did something wrong and were totally unrepentant about it. You might not like this cruel little fact but even in my case its totally true and its no use hiding it or from it as thats only promoting ignorance.

Cont below.

Cont from above.

I wanted to get to Bethel (JW heaven on earth...in my time it was in Hawai ) home of World Wide missionary teaching. Either that or become a book binder etc which were highly sort after people and were usually employed by the Watchtower organiztion in special JW owned factories which pump out all the materials required for witnessing from NWT bibles to the smallest pamphlet (I'm pretty sure they also print the food tickets that are used at conventions as ours always had some cool scriptures or even some occasional religious jokes!!!). As to the conventions I only ever did 3 x 3 full 24hr day long sessions (due to security duty etc) (2 locally [10,000 people max] and 1 interstate [about 100,000 people turned up out of the 120,000 JW's Australia wide!] and it was an everybody who can must go kinda journey to mecca type pilgrimage) and at all 3 of these conventions both me an CMAW001 were on garbage duty (I'm an expert at changing an overflowing rubbish bins in a full suit and tie for a full day and barely stink or get dirty at all be one has to be fully prepared like a scout or DOOM quickly ensues) and any other kind of dogjob that the convention admin required. I've worked in the kitchens and toilets and I have mopped more floor than I can remember. You name it and I was probably the guy at the pointy end of the stick along with my mate CMAW001. We were the goto guys for any dirty job that needed doing with no questions asked and a jump to it with a smile and a song attitude. Quite often me and CMAW001 were serverly scolded by sisters concerned for our physical and mental welfare (not so much spiritual as both of use were major converting force in our congregation i.e. we were THE big gun team and in the 2 1/2 years as a brother we converted a good 1/3rd of all new converts to the fold (50 in 3 years and me and my mate converted 22 [10 for me and 12 for him...girls always liked him more because he wasn't the misogynist that I was)) and yet we were highly praised by the brothers and the leadership for being the grease that kept the cogs and wheels turning. Me and CMAW001 did far more things outside of the religion such as practice cricket relentlessly (he was a bowler both pace and spin and had perfected about 3 styles of spin and 2 styles of pace (medium and fast) and could bowl a perfect yorker in all 5 styles in his sleep. We had metal welded stumps to cope with his agressive bowling style. He was ruthless and relentless in sport but always fair go. I became an awsome batsman in the nets but could never handle the real pitch because after about 6 to 8hrs of door to door war no-one and I mean no-one unless you are a complete nazarine zealot possessed by the holy spirit, wants to run 22 feet let alone walk or crawl it. I also helped coach him to run a four minute mile and we achieved this amazing feat in a bare 3mnths. He was the long distance hussien bolt of his yr in highschool the year we did this but he unfortunately had an extremely strong headwind start blowing and for the public school records his time was marked down as 4mins 1.53 seconds and I believe it has never been broken and no-one has come within 10 seconds of it. It was an extremely remarkable feat of human endurance, strength on pure mind over matter kind of stuff but for him it was like I'm Muhumad and that mountain is coming to me or its getting outta my way and he had complete faith before he even attempted it that he would prevail. I foolish bet him that there was no way under the sun he could do it EVER and boy did he make me eat my words. The bloke was a teenage olympian but was prevented by his faith from taking that route publicly. Shame really as he is the only human I have seen literally fly about 2inches above the ground nonstop for 4 laps of a 400 meter oval running track on school grounds. He did a 55 second flat single lap and I was gobsmacked that he wasn't breathless or even breaking a sweat. He would do mile after mile after mile with me calling out his lap times and 100 mtr straight times and consistantly he improved from somewhere over 5minutes to a consistant 4minute and 5 second mile. Then improvements came very slowly until one day bang 6 seconds melted away and we had done it! This was the kind of dedication both me and him put into every aspect of our lives and wrapped it all up and around and with YHVH.
I will never forget that 0:3:59:073 seconds flat sitting on the dial of that digital stopwatch. It was a miracle of man, mind and faith. We were going to trek carrying 40kg packs over 100 kms of local mountain terrain to a nearby township but only stopped when we did a prehike walk to the base of the 1st mountain that bordered 1 side of a local dam and when we realized we had mistaken the topography of the map of that mountainous area for 60 degree incline (insain I know but we were zealots!) when infact the incline was nearly 80 degrees and almost vertical. We would of had to have been birds to get over those mountains and very reluctantly we canned the project even though we felt we should give that 1 mountainside a go without packs but we didn't even make it beyond 10 ft and reality got the best of valour and we capitulated slightly in disgust at the poor maps we had used to plan the trip with but we were young and foolish and I'm suprised we got that far on our own. I personally wondered if Moses ever had this kind of problem on Mt Sinai? The hike alone through the bush to the dam was over 5km of increasingly rugged privately owned farmland terrain with the 40kg packs filled with 10kg of water 2kg of food and 28kg in bricks. I couldn't crawl 10 ft downhill with a tailwind with a 20kg pack nowadays. Can anybody say Lucky I wasn't shot as a trespasser. I heard many years later that CMAW001 had become a married Elder and had moved away to support a brand new congregation elswhere. If I myself hadn't left (I like to think that they left me) then I too would most likely be an Oversight Elder and possibly a missionary by now. Theres nothing wrong with these people. They tend to be law abiding extremely friendly and morally upright people regardless of whether the believe its a stake not a cross and so on and I have never met another group of hardworking trustworthy people in my entire life.

Continued in final post below.

Continued from above. Final Post.

Since my departure in the past 15+yrs the local congregation has slimmed to about half its original population when I left (about 60 members not including the Yugoslavic congregation) and large witnessing groups are an extreme rarity in my local area but they do still witness and are still accepting converts. I heard recently that the 144000 is all but gone and the last 100 or so are all on their last legs so it won't be to long before I feel that these JW saints will bring about the JW's final demise if Armageddon doesn't arrive shortly after the last one dies, say 6mnths to a year and then just like the walls of jericho, the walls will come a tumbling down.

Feel free to ask any questions as long as you are willing to take my answers at face value.

umm wow, that was interesting.

i dont want to sound like im picking a fight because im not. and im not trying really to start a debate.

i just noticed that some of the details in your story dont add up. (saying that from personal experience and from questions i asked tonight to the elders of my hall). the big detail for me was the elder´s wives and the headscarves.

i guess what im trying to say is that im not completely sure that i believe you. but im trying to say that in the least confrontational way possible. i hope that makes sense. you have a very extensive knowledge of the workings of the JW´s, alot more than me. so im not saying your completely invalid.

i hope that came across correctly

ya the world will end its enevidible. The end of times is just a reminder to live your life happy like. I think the un will some day transform into a disideing factor in a joining of all nations which sounds a lot like an apocoliptic move but most likely not. The world will come into one form of curentsy, and religion will come up as a big isue. Ones freedom of religion is a freedom of beliefs, and whos to say human sacrifices are rong, or the beheading of an adulteress. Religions should be abolished, but on the other hand it seperates the foolish from the leaders and thats already a fine line. And one world religion is kind of mest up. I don't think it would work out very well. I mean look at what happened to the jews. They made it. There are just to meny people to controle much less thier beliefes.I wont say its inposible but unnessisary. Just convincing them religion is unnessisary would be ezer.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Wow! Thank you for telling us your story. I had no idea.

I remember when I was a member at the end, they no longer asked us to pay for literature. I believe it had to do with tax status.

I also remember having to wear head covering while leading a group for service work. If there was no brother present, we had to always wear the headscarf, but only if taking the lead.

Now a days of course, it would be easy to get the 90 pioneer hours on the internet! We did not have it back then. So I can imagine many pioneers get some of their time in on blogs or forums.

Thanks for sharing!

reply to post by Volkgeister


My cousin joined that church for a few seconds... I've met a few of them too, and to be honest, I WOULD let them in if they rang at my doorbell because unlike most americans I'm not afraid of what they talk about, even though I don't agree with what they say about the bible, and in general really... they do have their own kooky rules but I respect them because this country is built on freedom of religion...

sounds to me like they are scared, but rightfully so, the less popular groups in the US have seemed scared lately, the scientologists, the jehovas witness & mormons in peticular should protect their rights, for even if I don't agree with them, I agree with what their rights represent, I heard germany is trying to BAN scientology, I heard someone against them say 'good', well this isn't good, any country without freedom of religion is not good, I know scientology is a bad example, for they technichally are not a religion to some yet a religion to others, and even if they were totally false, it would be bad for true religions out there that don't want to be shut out from an entire country be banned because of scientology, what is and is not a religion is under interpretation, but if they got followers and are a group and worship in a manner that is not breaking any laws, they should have their right.

[edit on 16-1-2009 by Razimus]

reply to post by Emily_Cragg


Your implying then that JW is a false religion. Then tell me which is the true religion? After leaving Jehovah's organization did you found a better one? Tell me if you find a religion that all its members are doing the work at Matthew 24:14 and 28:19,20, a religion not partaking in war and politics.
Tell me.

reply to post by Razimus

My cousin joined that church for a few seconds... I've met a few of them too, and to be honest, I WOULD let them in if they rang at my doorbell because unlike most americans I'm not afraid of what they talk about, even though I don't agree with what they say about the bible, and in general really... they do have their own kooky rules but I respect them because this country is built on freedom of religion...

But it looks as though between the atheists and evangelicals there is going to be some fighting at "High Noon!"

Here's my problem: I love the people who are 'sheeplike' ...Now but also Muslims can be sheeplike, yes?

what does it mean? Sheeplike? How do they behave? Who is the tender of sheep and has a deal been cut, with the foxes? All good questions.

All JWs or associates reading this thread, must admit, that a total and compleat vacuum is being tended, like a frikkin garden, inside their heads. They do not know or think about two cruccial and key elements, who are aligned with the United Nations (and which two are also the largest two groups on the planet, wholly and completely gigantic in relation to the Watchtower:

1: The Anti-Theists aka Nihilists (foreign non-believers aka JHVH-haters)

2: Muslims (all three wrestling for the JHVH handlebars but JW's fight is with the Pope not Mohammed)

...In my opinion, the JWs are fine people, sheeplike. But also there are many, many other people, sheeplike, who have been brainwashed by the other side. Those people can never be soldiered-up or re-educated by the Watchtower, so obviously JHVH knows that these dissidents will not be around in the future?

But what scares me most, is that either of these two groups, Revolutionary/Nihilists and/or Muslims, could easily infiltrate the JWs, and complete the very simple requirements of a regular JW. But if they talk to anyone, they'd be spotted before the sun went down --So the cardinal rule inside this Church is to not violate the bubble of ignorance. Such infiltrators would know how the JW game is played, but the actual factual JW right next to them, would not.

Sex and genital manipulation/marking of babies (Islamists and Hebrews all brandish the knives upon their children's sex organs perpetuating generational stupidity and internal sexual/psychological conflict) also seems to be a highly maintained mental vacuum in all Abrahamic cultures. Nobody talks about it be cause the bubble is so perfectly self-maintaining. ...Incidentally, do any of you actually consider yourselves to be intellectuals here?

In my humble opinion, the Watchtower is but one, wonderfully pointed sword in the Globalist Scabbard. Once used, it is dropped for another sword --The target being skewered does not change: It's you, the unlearned, the cultivated serf, at your doorstep. You are targeted idealogically at your door by similarly serf-like individuals, cultivated in a different manner. I regret all the people's minds I disassembled as a JW, and I will eternally cherish the ones who stod fast to their beliefs under my attacks.

How long before there is a Muslim door-to-door ministry? The JW hasn't ever thought of that, because JHVH will not permit such an abomination. Or something like that? Clearly JHVH will moderate the situation before such a thing happens?