Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire...

reply to post by arpgme

Whether it's "wrong" or not depends on your belief system. You ask me if it''s "wrong" but the fact that you ask this means that you already have your own ideas and beliefs systems about "right" and "Wrong" so I won't go into it.

I am interested in yur personal opinion of what you think my beliefs system is about and im also interested in hearing about yours as as well. private message me if you think its too controversial.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You seem to misunderstand; you are enslaved to the body's needs. You must breathe, you must eat, drink, sleep, piss, and s***. How can you be free when you have no choice but to comply?

Viewing the necessity of one's own body as a form of enslavement and one that denies freedom and forces choice.......must be an unbearably hopeless and miserable type of existence.

Originally posted by Visitor2012

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You seem to misunderstand; you are enslaved to the body's needs. You must breathe, you must eat, drink, sleep, piss, and s***. How can you be free when you have no choice but to comply?

To feel that one is a slave to their Mind, well that can be dealt with. But to view the necessity of one's own body as a form of enslavement and one that denies freedom and forces choice.......that's a very hopeless and miserable observation of life.

Thank you for answering that - I agree..
I was going to say that the body is the instrument that life plays on and if he doesn't like the tune then he is denying existence itself.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Do you have to desire to exist? Really?
Existence is - life is. There may be a desire to not die or not exist but existing is happening.
There may be a thought that says 'I can cease to exist' but that thought is existence.

Existence doesn't just happen. You have to struggle to maintain it or you'll die.

You think you are doing it and that is why life is heavy.
What a struggle it is for those that believe in struggle.

Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire

The Buddha attained enlightenment after being fed.

He had been fasting and was very close to starving to death.

Why so many fat Buddha statues, did he fail?

reply to post by Cauliflower


Many Westerners confuse Budai with Gautama Buddha.
Budai is the fat one.

This is from wiki:
Budai is often conflated with (or simply replaces) the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, in spite of the distinct visual differences in how each has been depicted. In India, Nepal, and throughout southeast Asia, Gautama (who lived during the 6th century BCE) is commonly depicted as being tall and slender in appearance. In contrast, in China and those areas to which Chinese cultural influence spread, the depiction of Budai (who lived during the 10th century CE) is consistently short and round.

reply to post by arpgme

So if the government wanted everyone to be Buddhist that would mean it is "not right"?

no , experience tells me it is not right.

WE , middle eastern people , need to fight the invaders out , the wolves and hyenas out of our country.

That is what Buddhism will stop us from doing.

But maybe it works for you , but it doesn't fit our lives.

We are born in ashes and die in ashes.

US govt keeps advertising Buddhism to keep young people from fighting for their soil and resources.

While we know that these Buddhists are not completely peaceful people and they are killing Muslims in Myanmar. And they have history in doing horrible things.

BTW , it is a choice of yours.

M.e.

reply to post by SaturnFX


yes, that is what western govt wants from you.

But it wants us to give up our soil and resources.

That is why they advertise it in our country.

I hope you get my message.

Well who says true freedom is a desirable state of being?

Originally posted by FoosM

Well who says true freedom is a desirable state of being?

The one who feels imprisoned.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I know what it is to go without. I know exactly what existence requires. Existence requires a process because our bodies require a process. Existence is earned, not given.

Advertising Buddhism to stop people from thinking and giving up in the fight for freedom against control...

You also mention that it is my choice. There is a difference between "choice/preferences" and "desire/longing".


Do or don't do, there is no "want".


"Who says freedom is a desirable state of being" - no one. It doesn't even have to be a desire. It can simply be a choice of NOT holding on to thoughts of not feeling free.

Existence is not "earned". If it were we wouldn't be existing now since we did nothing to be worthy enough to come into existence in the first place.

Just caught the post, no time here for the thread. But thank you, even as a 30+ year student of Buddhism it's good to be reminded of this basic point which I used to follow -- as an insecure 18-19 year old -- but later ignored (to my great detriment) when it came to career, love and a great many other things. As "luck" (good or bad I'm not sure) would have it, life and the court system have deprived me of a great deal via divorce and other civil matters, forcing me to jettison nearly every trivial possession and activity in my life, as well as leaving me utterly unwilling to put trust in ordinary love or ordinary "committment" (now there's a word that means nothing to young American singles anymore). Buddha was right. Jettison attachments and be free -- whatever your goal is be it relief of suffering oneself or relieving all beings. THere is no way to do either, without recognizing that one's personal pain and misfortune is just a pattern based on a few simple, deluded assumptions and instincts relatd to desire et. al., and then learning to be free.

As a Buddhist who's practically done it all -- studied, practiced, been a teacher,, gotten the best girl, succeeded in business, abused his power and charisma without regard for others' feelings, and been stometimes the worst possible example of a so-called 'Buddhist' -- after enjoying the best and worst possible outcomes in a short ten years or so, I realized my personal and professional failures were nobody else's g*d-d*n fault but mine. That is why your humbly worded post means so much to me -- and why I'm replying at such length. It's really an important point for anyone to conisder, especially for anyone that feels an all-consuming interest in following a spiritual path. Spiritual ambitions are dangerous but powerful psychic engines once you stoke them up, but their results are dangerously unpredictable without taking care to tame the base instincts of emotion.

If you have faith but dont do the right thing when you have the clear choice, sooner or later God,, BUddha, the Universe or whatever you want to call it, will literally force you. Gently at first, then more forcefully -- and if you're really stubborn like me, and don't read the obvious message for what it is -- things get rough until you're stripped bare of all the things you wouldn't let go of, and maybe all your worldly possessions, and your sanity until you have no choice any more.

My point in part is, Buddhism can be a very kicka$$, difficult path if you really believe t and want to follow it but don't make it easy for yourself at the start by studying the faults of fixated desire, etc. and avoid situations that aggravate those tendencies. By practicing only the parts I liked and neglecting or ignoring the warnings and restrictions my successes and plans began to unravel, first slowly and much faster than I could possibly manage.

I think Buddha is no mere symbol or example for good behavior which is what a lot of Western Buddhists seem to believe, If Buddha's teaching were just a set of guidelines that simply work if you work with them (like AA and twelve-steps) -- instead of being a system of principles that describe how cause and effect really work, regardless of whether one believes as tradition claims -- then Buddhism would be just the world's oldest self-help group or some "Law of Attraction" variant.

But Buddhism says karma is unavoidable, unless you free yourself at the most fundamental process level of mind in which case karma is "purified" or terminated for good. How karma works, for or against us, cannot be avoided simply by imagining positive goals and having positive thoughts about onself. Karma has its own rules which so-called "positive thinking" can only affect when the karma's good.

In my experience at least being a Buddhist means dealing with life much as a Christian would deal with the idea of faith or God in their life. If you're by nature a goody-goody faithful "Pat Boony" sort of Buddhist, the path is naturally easy and the results of the path slow but reliable to attain. If you're the Ozzman type of Buddhist, expect a lot of karmic "blowback", which can fuel a stunning 'comeback', if one should rise to the occasion,, or else it will blow you straight to hell.

In my opinion, genuine spirituality in a person can only be verified if they pursue freedom/salvation/Nirvana with a desperate but unbreakable sense of there being no other choice, no gray area and no acceptable compromise. Most of us can't do that in the midst of fierce passions and wordly motivations -- but if all else fails, going through those passions and ambitions, experiencing glorious success and equally humiliating loss, is a darned good way to get motivated. Such has been my experience anyway -- May all beings, especially children, be happy!

Originally posted by mideast
US govt keeps advertising Buddhism to keep young people from fighting for their soil and resources.

You must know very little about the US government if you think they're advertising Buddhism. The US government pretty much exclusively promotes Christianity and nothing else. Any study I've ever seen says only about 0.7% of US citizens are Buddhists.

Originally posted by Damsel

Originally posted by mideast
US govt keeps advertising Buddhism to keep young people from fighting for their soil and resources.

You must know very little about the US government if you think they're advertising Buddhism. The US government pretty much exclusively promotes Christianity and nothing else. Any study I've ever seen says only about 0.7% of US citizens are Buddhists.

well we don't necessarily know if what mideast says is true or not. Technically it could be, because US Gov would know that Buddhism is more about Being, Monasteries, Enlightenment, Pessimism, etc. IF they converted the majority to Buddhism, there is less chance of the groups fighting for soil and resources, just like in Tibet when China took over.

While if the Majority were Christians, they would fight over resources. SO technically as far as a conspiracy, mideast has part of it right. The next part would have to be to find out who really is funding the signs. Follow the money and you'll discover who's behind it.

On the other hand, it really could just be Buddhist organizations responsible for advertising and there's nothing more to it.

While I respect Mideast as a human being prior to any religious labels, I still prefer Buddhism over Islam and would prefer all the mideast countries and Indonesia become primarily a peaceful form of Buddhism without the harboring of fundamentalism. In our modern day era, the majority of wars, crazies, fundies, and dogmatic lunatics that we see doing terrible acts of violence, is coming mostly from Islamic countries.

Sadly, Islam is not going to go away any time soon, because it harbors fear in those who are not Muslim, to become Muslims where the majority of the population is Muslim.

Both Edgar Cayce and Nostradamus predicted the majority of Europe to become Islamic and that WW III will be between Islam and Christianity. A sad reality that I myself think will come true with the staggering growth of Islam

Sorry mideast. I love you as a human and a soul, but am sickened by your religion

reply to post by dominicus


I concur. Islam has always been an authoritative religion that offers more oppression than freedom. Buddhism is more of an understanding than a behavioral doctrine, which gives you the freedom to choose how you react.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by dominicus

 

I concur. Islam has always been an authoritative religion that offers more oppression than freedom. Buddhism is more of an understanding than a behavioral doctrine, which gives you the freedom to choose how you react.

edit on 30-5-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

In the bigger picture, Buddhism is not about choosing how you react. It's about freeing yourself from reaction.

I have come across Buddhist dogmatic fundies as well, arguing that only they are right and everyone else is wrong.

It seems egoic based fundamentalism creeps into every form of thought. Some more than others. Whatever harbors it should be gotten rid of

reply to post by dominicus

Where are these alleged advertisements for Buddhism in the US? I've lived in the US all my life and I've never seen any. It's blatantly obvious that the US government promotes Christianity in the US, with "In God We Trust" on our money and "one nation, under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance, in addition to the hundreds of times "God" has been mentioned in presidential and other political speeches. These are not Buddhist ideas.

As far as conspiracies go, Christianity teaches submission to authority, praying for things to get better rather than being proactive, and non-acceptance of non-Christians which makes any group easy to villainize. So really, we can go either way with this.

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

yes, that is what western govt wants from you.

But it wants us to give up our soil and resources.

That is why they advertise it in our country.

I hope you get my message.

I see what your saying, but I disagree with it.
Your own government of course may want you to just shut up while the chosen few of your country reap all the benefits and starve the people, but the west is not just 3 guys in a room. its a series of corporations that all profit based on consumers. the more people worldwide want stuff, the more they profit. So you don't have to look further than the people running your country to see the issue..regardless of how often they keep pointing at the USA. take note of their golden gloves they wear while pointing away from them to give you someone to blame.