Why Buddha says true freedom is freedom of desire...

reply to post by Damsel

Where are these alleged advertisements for Buddhism in the US? I've lived in the US all my life and I've never seen any. It's blatantly obvious that the US government promotes Christianity in the US, with "In God We Trust" on our money and "one nation, under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance, in addition to the hundreds of times "God" has been mentioned in presidential and other political speeches. These are not Buddhist ideas.

I believe he's referring to other countries such as Indonesia, where the Buddhists and Muslims are fighting each other and burning each others mosques/temples. At least that's the gist I got. since it was recent news. Also if you look at his profile, it's filled with anti-zionist land grabbing info.

I agree with you that I don't see U.S. Buddhist adverts

As far as conspiracies go, Christianity teaches submission to authority, praying for things to get better rather than being proactive, and non-acceptance of non-Christians which makes any group easy to villainize. So really, we can go either way with this.

Yeah I disagree about that. It really depends which denomination you are referring to. Although I could say that the above quote for the most part speaks for most of the Westernized Dogmatic Fundie Christians.

However there are various denominations that accept everyone, love everyone, and do not judge anyone, as well as become Enlightened/Union w/ God. Very few and far between but they exist.

Originally posted by dominicus
Yeah I disagree about that. It really depends which denomination you are referring to. Although I could say that the above quote for the most part speaks for most of the Westernized Dogmatic Fundie Christians.

However there are various denominations that accept everyone, love everyone, and do not judge anyone, as well as become Enlightened/Union w/ God. Very few and far between but they exist.

I definitely didn't mean to imply all of Christianity is like that, only that Christianity can be exploited by a government the same way Buddhism can. There's absolutely a lot of good Christianity can and does do that bring people together.

reply to post by Damsel


I find that Christianity offers just as many pitfalls as the lifestyles it seeks to curtail. Just because one is not sinning, does not mean one is not harming oneself. There is virtue in the freedom to make mistakes. We are not designed to be perfect, nor should we punish ourselves for our failure to be perfect, nor should we ask forgiveness for our imperfection. To ask forgiveness for our imperfection is to attempt to appease TPTB for being born. What is the point in such self-contempt? What is the point of always being sorry that you can't live up to what you imagine to be perfection? What do we even know of perfection?

Just look at this thread. This is what some imagine to be the path to nirvana. The loss of all desire. Suicide has never been the path to peace. And yet some would think so. I find it disheartening to think that such influences as might lead to that conclusion actually exist in this world. How frightening!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Damsel

 

I find that Christianity offers just as many pitfalls as the lifestyles it seeks to curtail. Just because one is not sinning, does not mean one is not harming oneself.

I'd say if your not sinning, you most likely are harming yourself

Just look at this thread. This is what some imagine to be the path to nirvana. The loss of all desire. Suicide has never been the path to peace. And yet some would think so. I find it disheartening to think that such influences as might lead to that conclusion actually exist in this world. How frightening!

So you imagine Nirvana... the presence of desire? With all due respect, I think you are lacking in knowledge and experience.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Just look at this thread. This is what some imagine to be the path to nirvana. The loss of all desire. Suicide has never been the path to peace. And yet some would think so. I find it disheartening to think that such influences as might lead to that conclusion actually exist in this world. How frightening!

edit on 30-5-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Then what would you suggest is the path to nirvana; the path to peace? The Buddha makes quite a strong argument for giving up craving.

I apologize if this has already been stated I have not had time to read all of the replies. My falling out with Buddhism came from the realization that freeing yourself from desire is impossible. Hear me out. Is not the very act of striving for this merely a person acting on another desire? The search for self within is another desire. Any impulse or motivation stems from desire. Literally doing nothing is doing something and is driven by desire. It just seems paradoxical to me to think you can be released from something you are seeking.

What is the Buddhist response to this?

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
I apologize if this has already been stated I have not had time to read all of the replies. My falling out with Buddhism came from the realization that freeing yourself from desire is impossible. Hear me out. Is not the very act of striving for this merely a person acting on another desire? The search for self within is another desire. Any impulse or motivation stems from desire. Literally doing nothing is doing something and is driven by desire. It just seems paradoxical to me to think you can be released from something you are seeking.

What is the Buddhist response to this?

It's actually not a paradox, because even though one must first have the desire to be free from desire, that desire is also given up along the way. It only serves to get started on the path of letting go.

reply to post by arpgme


Now this is coming from somebody (me) who has studied Buddhism for over 20 years..

(I am just speaking in a general sense and not in the context you first outlined.)

Just a question actually..

Can anyone really be rid of desire?

Is it not engrained in one's being?

reply to post by Damsel

You must know very little about the US government if you think they're advertising Buddhism

They do it in middle east. And maybe you know little about what your govt advertises in middle east.

peace

Originally posted by nOraKat
Can anyone really be rid of desire?

No. But you can check to see if there is any lack.
Humans are always thinking that if they had more they would feel better. Getting more does not work, it is an endless seeking for satisfaction - it makes one needy, greedy and rarely satisfied.

reply to post by dominicus


your reply defined what I wrote in three lines.

In our modern day era, the majority of wars, crazies, fundies, and dogmatic lunatics that we see doing terrible acts of violence, is coming mostly from Islamic countries.

Don't you know the connection of OBL family to Saudi king ?

Or

Don't you know about the relation of Saudi king to US govt ?

Or

Don't you know about the relation of Wahhabism to Al-qaeda ?

Or

Don't you know the source of support and money for Al-Qaeda ?

Or

Don't you know who is giving guns to Al-Qaeda ?

Or

Don't you know that it is US govt which has destroyed three Muslims countries ?

To everyone asking "is it really possible to get rid of desire". They are missing the point. Here is a perfect response to this:

Remember, in the original post I defined desire as "lacking, wanting, longing for"

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by nOraKat
Can anyone really be rid of desire?

No. But you can check to see if there is any lack.
Humans are always thinking that if they had more they would feel better. Getting more does not work, it is an endless seeking for satisfaction - it makes one needy, greedy and rarely satisfied.

edit on 31-5-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

reply to post by arpgme


Well wouldn't the lack of satisfaction over the endless death rebirth cycle and longing for enlightenment be contradictory? To begin the path of enlightenment is walking with desire. I am sorry I don't see how you can explain any action not arising from some desire. Even compassionate acts arise from desire. This is probably why we don't see shining cities full of Buddhas/Bodhisattvas because it is impossible by its own standards.

Look at Pure Land Buddhism, Amitabha would essentially maintain this pure land through his desire. Makes no sense but neither does many of the contradictions in Buddhism like the differing schools some endorsing gods others renouncing all stemming from the same teacher.

reply to post by mideast

your reply defined what I wrote in three lines. Don't you know the connection of OBL family to Saudi king ? Or
Don't you know about the relation of Saudi king to US govt ? Or Don't you know about the relation of Wahhabism to Al-qaeda ?

None of that matters. Look at the history of Islam, the ottoman empires, the wars, the invasions, the fundamentalism, etc. It's been gong on for a long LONG time before the U.S. ever even existed as a political power.

Certain elements/thinking is ingrained in the collective consciousness of those who are Muslims, regardless of financing.


reply to post by NihilistSanta

I apologize if this has already been stated I have not had time to read all of the replies. My falling out with Buddhism came from the realization that freeing yourself from desire is impossible.

It is possible. To a certain degree, I have arrived at such a state through Christian Mysticism (which in certain ways has similarities to Buddhism). I don't have any desires left and am done with everything. I just continue to write, work, help, do .....because there are others who rely on me in my family/friends.

The real you is prior to the Mind/Ego which is the aspect within that desires. So it has to do with practice/realizations/illuminations that come along the way in your practice, that extinguish all desire. It is not impossible.

Is not the very act of striving for this merely a person acting on another desire?

That's true. The correct view is to even rid one's self of the desire to be rid of all desires. Merely sitting in Beingness and realizing Crystal Clear awareness prior to the Desires of the Ego will extinguish desire.

The search for self within is another desire.

That's true. It's necessary in the beginning, however eventually when the true Self is found, then there is no more searching or desiring.

Any impulse or motivation stems from desire. Literally doing nothing is doing something and is driven by desire. It just seems paradoxical to me to think you can be released from something you are seeking.

The search for true self and to rid one of all desires and ego, is the Ego itself finally cooperating with the True self in the search, which itself only takes you so far, until you realize True Self, which then reveals that the searcher is an illusion and not you, so then the searcher and desires all fall away

reply to post by nOraKat

Just a question actually.. Can anyone really be rid of desire? Is it not engrained in one's being?

It can be rooted out of one's being. It takes time, study, practice. There are needs like thirst, food, excretion, sleep, etc ....and desire's based on the world's relative programming. When you were a child, there were no desires, only awareness. Once the desires are rooted out, there is a return to child-like awareness, crystal clear and pure

reply to post by NihilistSanta


You don't have to be longing and yearning (desire) in order to take an action to do something. Sure there are preferences but the desire (longing/yearning) isn't there anymore.

reply to post by Damsel

Then what would you suggest is the path to nirvana; the path to peace? The Buddha makes quite a strong argument for giving up craving.

Accepting what you are, and learning to compensate for it. If you are greedy, then make peace with your greed and learn how to give. If you are angry, make peace with your anger and learn how to forgive. If you are sad, make peace with your sadness and learn how to find joy.

When you know what you are and how to balance it, that is when you are faced with a choice: maintain balance, or maintain an extreme. Balance will bring longevity, but extremes will bring passion. Hence, the pendulum. Learn of one extreme, balance it out, and learn of the other extreme. This will teach you everything you will ever want to know about life. But just as some may leave high school and never go to college, many will choose not to experience the entirety of what it is to be human, content with settling on just one facet of human nature.

Explore, seek, settle, enjoy. Rinse and repeat as needed.

reply to post by arpgme


What about just pure sadness because time goes by too fast and there is no way to make an accurate decision base on someone's information who lies to you?

reply to post by Visitor2012


On the contrary, it's simply a limitation that cannot be broken, so why resist it? We can only do what we can do, there is no getting upset over this fact. I'm not sad that I need to drink water, breathe oxygen, eat food, and occasionally defecate, are you?

However, we're talking about true freedom, absolute freedom, and that simply is not attainable for as long as one is limited by the capabilities and needs of his or her body. I suppose the real question at hand is whether freedom is possible without the body, but that would lead to a debate over what freedom is.

reply to post by arpgme


This simply a rhetoric construct...

The TRUE self feels whole, complete, satisfied. The FALSE self feels separate, incomplete, unsatisfied needing to always seek and control.

No human can be whole, complete and satisfied, that is not the human condition. Even biologically it starts as we are dependent on our parents for longer than any other animal to the simple fact that we need a complementary sexual partner to replicate and fully fulfill our primal biologic imperative of survival (through reproduction). All else is mental constructs that most of the time are linked to faith and religious dogma.

In any case I think you are exaggerating Buddhist beliefs, from the utopic goals. Wants can be abolished and should be generally avoided (they are artificially created) but needs cannot while still having a material existence and that puts humans in a chicken and egg dilemma that so far hasn't been resolved (well, for all non-believers). In fact wanting to attain enlightenment is as bad as any other artificiality (and so all religious dogma is false dogma as it is external to yourself) what remains is simply acceptance of what is unmutable and understanding of all, especially of the self.