How many of you are really prepared for the Dog Eat Dog society you relish and preach on this site?

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
I sense a certain attitude in many posts here at ATS. It's an attitude that shows no sympathy for those viewed as lesser than yourselves.

Many feel that the homeless, welfare, drug addicts, and other bottom of the barrel people are getting what they deserve and shouldn't be a drain on the rest of society.

What you are preaching and asking for is a dog eat dog world. A devolution from our civilized society. You wish to return to when everyone cared for just their immediate family and damn everyone else.

Why do so many wish to return to such a time?

I ask are all of you (who will probably be too shame to post in this thread) REALLY built for such a society? I don't think so, you actually want a society that's half civilized and half savage. Especially when it comes to yourselves.

How many of you are young, strong and trained to survive in such a savage society? I'd wager that there is a percentage who spew they want such a society but they would be among the first to expire should we return to such savagery!

Many of you speaking of all this heartlessness are out of shape and may even have disabilities. You would be among the FIRST to expire. You should want this society to be as civilized as possible. You are all hypocrites!

If you are a UK subject, you are officially the biggest hypocrite on ATS!!!
You call yourself "civilized"? Captain Cook pretty well made you permanent status of crimes against humanity...and your trying to re-write history that stealing land, gold, and old growth forest destruction is very civilized?
Good God just shut up...
Shocking...

reply to post by DZAG Wright


First of all, I think you might be mistaking people wanting to keep their INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS with "being heartless and insensitive to other people's plight"...

More and more societies are moving towards a "big brother/police state" where the rich elites, those in power and a few others want to control everything people do in the name of "it is for the good of all"...

Any society where people are FORCED to do ANYTHING that they don't want to do, no matter how good you might think doing such compulsory action might be, leads to DICTATORSHIP plain and simple.

Many dictatorships have been formed, and they are usually formed, when those in power wanted/want to FORCE people to "behave as civilized people".

Let me give you examples:... To the Europeans the Indians/Native Americans were seen as "primitive and uncivilized"... To the English in the 16th hundreds and for at least another 100 years the American colonists were "uncivilized fools" for not wanting to be part of the motherland, I mean Great Britain...

There are many other similar examples...

The meaning of the word "civilized", among many others, have been dramatically changed and are often used to lure people to believe that doing compulsory actions will somehow make anyone, and everyone "a better person". What following such compulsory actions actually does is turn people into slaves "for the good of all."

Yes, SOME laws are necessary in any society, such as various specific traffic laws, but not to the point of controlling every aspect of people's lives...

Look around you for crying out loud... Look at what governments are doing "for the good of all" which is turning entire societies into dictatorships where the elites are the only ones who can dictate what constitutes "being civilized"...

You should take the blinders off and look at what is actually happening in the world... Things are not getting better, they are getting worse and slowly but surely every nation is turning into a total dictatorship "for the good of Earth, the good of all, and for a civilized One world"...

reply to post by DZAG Wright


I am simply prepared to escape, launching to a location well away from cities and highways and I am starting from a location well away from cities. Should we return to a dog eat dog societal attitude, no, devolution is not a good thing. I would say however that a family of four living on the grace and goodness of the taxpayer is not the problem. The problem is the parasite banking class and their lapdog politicians living off everything below the top 1%.

Should the financial system collapse, as it should (or must), I do expect to witness massive retribution for the crimes bankers and politicians have committed by shirking their ethical, moral and fiduciary obligations.

Cheers - Dave
.

We're already in a "dog-eat-dog" world, and have been, for quite some time. There is no "love" in our world. We're being trained to hate; spy; snitch; rat; and do the work for the elite. I wonder what will be the spark to set this world on fire! We're 1 strike away.

they don't have welfare in Somalia its a dog eat dog kind of place go try it out for a few weeks live the dream!.

Whether people are ready or not doesn't matter; it is coming sooner or later.

I would also put forth that for the most part, barring a percentage of specific countries, the world is already 'dog eat dog'; the stroke of a leader's pen is all that keeps the dependents holding on as it is.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

When the Empire falls and it will we will automatically revert back to that time as it has been with all the empires that have fallen. I am not sure if I am ready or could make it but I welcome the opportunity to try. I think that I have the skills and the ca hones to make it. I would much rather have something happen to set it off than be slave to the current system we are in where I do nothing but pay to merely exist... Bring it on!

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by Zngland

Tragic nonsense.( no offense)

A healthy individual is one with those
values and since most do the society will reflect this,
you want to force people to follow your view (good or bad morally ideologically etc),
which is wrong. A human being is Sovereign otherwise he/she is a defacto slave.

A human being that is a part of a functioning society has an obligation to help maintain that society's functionality. Does that mean being taxed to death, or watching as people sit on their bums? No. I will be the first to say that a lot of people need to take some responsibility for their lives.

That said, I do not want to see people starve, especially those who are in positions through no fault of their own. Watching people around you starve will lead to the break down of the society which protects the "sovereignty" that you are talking about.

If you feel that people should starve, that's your god given right. But don't piss your pants if the end result comes at your doorstep one day wielding a blunt object, demanding to be let in or else.

edit on 28-5-2013 by supremecommander because: (no reason given)

What is more morally reprehensible forcing someone to feed someone starving or letting them starve.?

This is basically the crux of this debate.

Originally posted by Philippines
Short sighted? Lol, I think people who volunteer to pay money to an organization, say the IRS, and don't even know how the money is used -- and then complain about -- is shortsighted.

People who hide behind pride as an excuse are also short sighted in my opinion. When did pride become an excuse to pay taxes? Or do people just depend on fear to pay taxes nowadays more than pride?

Huh? Did we change tracks somewhere in this thread? Please tell me I'm not on the wrong train...
The topic isn't folks who avoid paying their taxes. Frankly I could give a damn about those people and, truth be told, I salute them because I agree with them. The IRS and their wealth redistribution cycle are a massive steaming pile of horsecrap... BUT we're discussing the folks who TAKE from the pot of money those of us who pay taxes are funding. I'm saying there are leeches in the lake and I'm sick of feeding them and you're off down the shoreline trying to say I've got issues with the folks smart enough to just not go swimming in the first place.

As an aside, few "volunteer" to pay money to the IRS. The system is setup in such a way that anybody who works for a company automatically gets their taxes removed from their paycheck and is forced to file their papers every April. The "pride" doesn't come from paying taxes, it comes from paying for your own damn existence on this planet, food, a roof, clothes, medical, etc. I've never knocked on your door (or anyone else's) and asked you to feed my wife and kids, so respect me equally and stay the hell off my porch.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I understand your sentiments completely and agree with you that the world would probably be a better place if people took responsibility for every one of their actions - and paid the consequence good or bad.

My point in my earlier comment though, is that I don't understand why people continue to volunteer to pay taxes who don't agree with where their money is going. I know the system is setup in a way now where there are automatic deductions, but to my knowledge people still are asked to send their personal financial info for the year, and then get in trouble if they're wrong. It's like grade school homework that the government assigns, but with much higher stakes. Why would anyone volunteer to do that 1040 paper? Fear of the man?

I hope you understand my point =)

And to tie this into the thread, if everyone would stop paying taxes, it would become ugly fast, dog eat dog and then some.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

First of all, I think you might be mistaking people wanting to keep their INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS with "being heartless and insensitive to other people's plight"...

More and more societies are moving towards a "big brother/police state" where the rich elites, those in power and a few others want to control everything people do in the name of "it is for the good of all"...

Any society where people are FORCED to do ANYTHING that they don't want to do, no matter how good you might think doing such compulsory action might be, leads to DICTATORSHIP plain and simple.

Many dictatorships have been formed, and they are usually formed, when those in power wanted/want to FORCE people to "behave as civilized people".

Let me give you examples:... To the Europeans the Indians/Native Americans were seen as "primitive and uncivilized"... To the English in the 16th hundreds and for at least another 100 years the American colonists were "uncivilized fools" for not wanting to be part of the motherland, I mean Great Britain...

There are many other similar examples...

The meaning of the word "civilized", among many others, have been dramatically changed and are often used to lure people to believe that doing compulsory actions will somehow make anyone, and everyone "a better person". What following such compulsory actions actually does is turn people into slaves "for the good of all."

Yes, SOME laws are necessary in any society, such as various specific traffic laws, but not to the point of controlling every aspect of people's lives...

Look around you for crying out loud... Look at what governments are doing "for the good of all" which is turning entire societies into dictatorships where the elites are the only ones who can dictate what constitutes "being civilized"...

You should take the blinders off and look at what is actually happening in the world... Things are not getting better, they are getting worse and slowly but surely every nation is turning into a total dictatorship "for the good of Earth, the good of all, and for a civilized One world"...

edit on 29-5-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

I think you are quite correct. The OP puts up the false dichotomy that those who object to state redistribution of wealth must be selfish and uncaring. Many, if not most, Americans who object to the welfare state are very generous as individuals and believe in donating to charity, volunteerism, etc. What they object to is not taking care of their fellow man, or helping him out, but the coercive nature of government programs.

What is more selfish? Wanting to keep what you earn and take care of yourself, your family, and your neighbors or demanding that the government take from people other than yourself whom you consider "underserving" to give to a third party so you can feel good about society or buy votes for your party?

It is a dog-eat-dog world only the big dogs use the force of government to get their way. They force bailouts, dodge tax laws, exempt themselves from laws, dislocate workers for increased profits and often just plain scam their way to fortune.
Subconsciously most of us recognize this and mentally adjust by trying to raise ourselves above others. It doesn't mean we act on it in any meaningful way but it's still there.

I agree with your point in the OP, we really should be treating each other as equals. In fact, if we did we just might find common cause against that pack of really big dogs that are causing real damage but they are a very scary lot and few have the stomach for that kind of fight.

As for your comment

you are all hypocrites

You just did the very thing you were complaining about us doing.

We may need to address the myth that there are hordes of people who refuse to work and choose to exist off welfare.

Unlike others, I work in welfare and employment, so I see the customers daily. Why would anyone WANT to only live off foodstamps and welfare? That is a pitiful existence. THey don't get to do the things we working people do such as take vacations and see the world.

They don't have nice christmas' and receive other luxuries we do. The only time they get these luxuries is doing tax season (and that's only if they've worked).

There are too many people envying people who deserve no envy. It's a matter of being too nosey I suppose? Earlier in the thread someone was complaining about a guy in a grocery store using foodstamps and then walking out to get in a new Escalade. The gentleman may have gotten in an Escalade but was it his? Is he not allowed to have friends who loan him their vehicle?

Too many lies and exhagerations have been told regarding welfare and foodstamps. I've worked in this industry for 9 years and no the clients well...they are not living a premium lifestyle. So why envy these people? It's because most are not well informed.

How many of you know that there's a federal and state requirement for everyone receiving welfare to be in a work program 30-40 hours per week? Or did you assume it was still 1979 where a check just came in the mail to a mother sitting home with 8 kids?

People have really brainwashed themselves to believe society is stealing from them LOL! That's comparable to being a child living in your parents home and declaring they are stealing YOUR food! How can your parents steal food they've purchased from you?

Everything you have...EVERYTHING...all of your success is due in large part to you living in a society with a strong government! As much as you hate to admit (and many will refuse), with out our government and laws we would all be living in Somalia! Yes our government and regulations are extreme at times, but without them, LOL, would be even worst.

This isn't 1800 anymore with a population of 20 million nation wide and there's room for everyone. The larger a body, the larger more complicated nervouse system is needed. Like it or not, government is our nervous system!

When you're asked (or if you like required) to give back to society, suddenly society is stealing from you? How egotistical and self-centered can you be? If you have a successful business it's because we have a civilized society to provide customers and protect you. And I'm sorry but this is simple truth.

Every society will have it's down-trodden and unfortunates, that's apart of this world. Same as every creature with fur will have parasites, just a part of the deal. What is a creature with fur to do....cut it's fur off in the name of getting rid of the parasites, leading to that creature dying from exposure? It's the same silliness those who villify welfare people assume.

Many would rather the entire world collapse, than a few leeches draw blood for free. It's a sickness really!

reply to post by Philippines


Please tell me. How can someone in the 'working poor' class (most of us) NOT pay taxes? Also, with those taxes being automatically deducted from our paychecks, why would we NOT fill out that 1040 so we can perhaps get a bit of those tax dollars back?

You sound educated. Are you American, living now in the Philippines? If I guessed correctly, then you're probably one of the wealthy few that can hire a tax attorney to help you not pay taxes. The many of us aren't so fortunate. Much like the ads that I've seen for Belize. Move down, they say. Live the life you dream of, away from the prying eyes of the IRS. Only the rich can do that. The rest of us are stuck here, making the best of it.

I read this site quite regularly, and I have never got the impression people here "relish" or "preach" that we should be a dog eat dog violent society. I have read many posts of people asking questions and giving options on how to prepare for such a scenario.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by babybunnies
I doubt many are.

Even on "doomsday preppers" tv show, when people practice their "bug out" scenarios, they get badly hurt and need medical attention from a hospital. There are several instances of this on the last season or two of this show, and these are people actively training for this.

Most people on here are just wistfully hoping for the end, and can't handle it when they lose cell phone service or twitter access for more than a few hours in the real world.

You are absolutely correct, though the intent of this thread is to force the people who have no sympathy toward societies downtrodden to see their hypocracy.

Rules for radical's, never ceases to lose their shamelessness. Honestly, it isn't a matter of survival for most. Look at the Cold War strategy of "Mutual Assured Destruction". Do you honestly think anyone thought their would be survival from that? Also look at how you describe "down trodden" "people", in way's to elicit emotional support. Then from that goal post it would be an easy thing to direct emotions to other groups. Truly pathological and the only hypocrisy that exists is the one you are trying to manufacture.

Every sensible, decent and intelligent person out there, needs to read Alinksy's rules for radicals or you will be played as a fool by ignorant, genocidal people only interested in your destruction. I know my language sounds a bit drastic, but when people in both government, business and on the street activists openly call for the mass genocide of a people, you have to take it seriously.


I didn't support Ron Paul because I totally agreed with him, I supported him because he would of purged the system of leftist criminals, people intent to cause me and others like me, harm. Or atleast that is the end result of that libertarian policies would lead to. Leftists messed up and burned many bridges in their identity politics genocidal mania.

Look at this racist twit:
www.youtube.com...

He probably single handily set the ball rolling for the death of the OWS movement. The thing is, OWS is a leftist movement, so that negative energy he created after nuking OWS, clings to leftism itself. Also, idiot bigots like that are a dime a dozen among the left and leftist activist groups. Leftism and caring about the "poor" has been hijacked by ethnocentric groups like "occupy the hood" and other waste of space, genocidal bigoted, ethnic stalkers.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Everything you have...EVERYTHING...all of your success is due in large part to you living in a society with a strong government! As much as you hate to admit (and many will refuse), with out our government and laws we would all be living in Somalia! Yes our government and regulations are extreme at times, but without them, LOL, would be even worst.

You have got to be joking. While funny, it is sad to know that there are people like you that truly believe this Progressive crap.

Look at business these days. Many are stifled and dead right out of the chute because of Govt.

It is funny that you believe this crap, while working within the same Govt machine you champion.

Yeah, okay then, sure sure.

It's about lack of empathy and overpouring selfishness and narcissism.

People who bitch about some poor wino being on welfare make me sick. There's always some people who abuse the system. Have some solidarity, please.

Oh, and the whole "each man for himself" is shortsighted, egoistical BS that divides people rather than unites then.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


Let me give you examples:... To the Europeans the Indians/Native Americans were seen as "primitive and uncivilized"... To the English n the 16th hundreds and for at least another 100 years the American colonists were "uncivilized fools" for not wanting to be part of the motherland, I mean Great Britain...

Im sorry to go off topic but you forget to add the USA was equaly complicet in this after Britain left the USA. The USA is just as guilty of native abuse and dont try and side step it.

I am disabled and continue to work no matter how much pain. I use what I have. I have no problem helping those who really need it. The question is at what level is it really a need. I think a lot of people scam the system which we pay for and that needs to be addressed. But we are dealing with government so nothing will be done right.

I believe in we and that the strong should protect the weak and that we should help and take care of each other. The problem is honesty in that need. When need is generated due to lazy and self pity because I don't have everything in life like the rich and famous, maybe a rude awakening like taking away benefits will force them to use what they have and gain some self respect.

I don't think it will be a Dog Eat Dog society but rather if you can work and contribute to every one's survival, you will be fed. Lazy and lies won't be tolerated and they will go hungry. People who really need help will get it. I think it just may bring some honesty to not being able to work and I don't want to work..